Yellow leaves, spots - First grow - White Russian - CFL

I did some googling prior to this, but honestly I can't nail it down. I beleive the issue started after last feeding (4 days ago). This
White Russian is a clone I gotten a month prior. Its transplanted into soil 16 days ago. While it went well it took a few days for yellowing to disappear. About 3 days ago it showed up again. At first it started in middle (I think) and only effected the lower and middle leaves. One is yellow, probably canary yellow, and some dark almost red spoting on edges and end of leaves. Another two are yellowing and one shows these blotches near center of the leaf itself. The rest of plant looks ok but I'm not sure what todo. Fertilizer was used, Its the General Organic grow formula, about 3/4 strenght and I've done folliar spraying to keep moisture level up and some water when topsoil was bone dry. The Water/Fertilizer is 6.3-6.4ph respectively and its on 18/6 cycle. I have not flushed or treated the plant with other chemicals, etc.. If it at all helps its around 5-6" tall now. I use distilled water right now instead of tap water (because I have concern over hard water). I don't (yet) have a ec/pph meter just a ph. Soil is soiless mix with 1/2 perlite as peatmoss. Day cycle is around 76-80F normally with 27-30% moisture and at night 70-73F and 26-28% moisture typically. Airflow has been steady and constant.

I'm not sure what else to write. i hope it was enough for you to help. My thread here is called "rubbermaid white rhino cfl". Yes, I mistakenly identified the plant. It IS white russian.

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Originally Posted by mgjscdhl

I did some googling prior to this, but honestly I can't nail it down. I beleive the issue started after last feeding (4 days ago). This
White Russian is a clone I gotten a month prior. Its transplanted into soil 16 days ago. While it went well it took a few days for yellowing to disappear. About 3 days ago it showed up again. At first it started in middle (I think) and only effected the lower and middle leaves. One is yellow, probably canary yellow, and some dark almost red spoting on edges and end of leaves. Another two are yellowing and one shows these blotches near center of the leaf itself. The rest of plant looks ok but I'm not sure what todo. Fertilizer was used, Its the General Organic grow formula, about 3/4 strenght and I've done folliar spraying to keep moisture level up and some water when topsoil was bone dry. The Water/Fertilizer is 6.3-6.4ph respectively and its on 18/6 cycle. I have not flushed or treated the plant with other chemicals, etc.. If it at all helps its around 5-6" tall now. I use distilled water right now instead of tap water (because I have concern over hard water). I don't (yet) have a ec/pph meter just a ph. Soil is soiless mix with 1/2 perlite as peatmoss. Day cycle is around 76-80F normally with 27-30% moisture and at night 70-73F and 26-28% moisture typically. Airflow has been steady and constant.

I'm not sure what else to write. i hope it was enough for you to help. My thread here is called "rubbermaid white rhino cfl". Yes, I mistakenly identified the plant. It IS white russian.

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My plants are doing something like that after being transplanted from rockwool to soil. My pH was a little high but not so high it should be a big problem.

I'd buy a soil pH and NPK test kit and see where your soil is at, you can also test the runoff from watering, which should be low 6's or so.

Be sure to post up if you find that anything helps.

Good Luck!

These are mine:

http://boards.cannabis.com/plant-pro...ease-help.html

I do know it'll yellow up a bit while roots are forming. If not the case I hope yours clears as well. I'll post as soon as I find something out. My ph is also in that range but I thought next watering I may runoff OR flush and test it.

This is copied and pasted from my tread, but might help you too:

Best I can tell it's a zinc deficiency caused by high pH.

I watered mine with plain water with a pH of 5.5, the water seeping through came out to the low 6's.

It's been 36 hours and it seems like it's getting better.

I had one other think it was zinc as well. And with "rusting" blotches that seems to be the case. My ph has been on brink of its high limits but the peat so far has reduced the ph. I flushed today to clear out any nutrient lock, ph imbalance, etc.. The ph of the water (which was distilled 6.0ph) didn't fluctuate anymore than 6.1-5.8ph. Little weird huh? I guess peat in its forms are all different. I wish though I had bought a mix, potting soil.

Anyways I'm going to look up the information on zinc deficiency. If I can treat it at same time of flushing I'm all for it. I put a very light fert mix (10% of reg) to try and get nutrients back to the plant. Maybee that'll add some zinc since it says on bottle it provides some (general organic - grow)

I don't think you need to add Zinc. You probably just need to lower the pH so it's available to the plant. I could see adding a little bit of micros but not too much...

Anyhow... mine seem better or worse depending on when I look. IDK, might just start over.

When I made my mix, I used coco fiber instead of peat at 25% of the mix. I always use peat, and shouldn't have tried to alter the formula (50% potting mix (FF OF or similar), 25% perlite, 25% peat moss). Then I add a little hydrated lime to counteract the lower pH of the peat, and it balances perfectly with water pH that is normally 7.3 around here and a low dose of Earth Juice nutes.

Proper water ph for peat-based mediums is 6.3 to 6.8ish. Any lower than that and you'll lock-out nutrients. Bump your ph up to mid to high end of the range.

You are overwatering/overspraying. Cannabis needs a wet/dry cycle. If you keep the rootball wet, root rot will set-in. Stop all spraying at least until this problem is resolved. Spraying is compounding the issue.

Feed per manufacturers instructions, not because you feel the plants need ONE of the micronutrients in it. I very-much doubt it's a zinc problem anyway.

Please provide a link to the nutrients and additives you use. I couldn't find General Organics online, and it's not something I've heard of in here.

Ask for help before assaulting your plants with inappropriate cures. You will do more damage than good.

Best to fill-out the troubleshooting form for a more complete diagnosis and treatment recommendations. (link is in my signature)

Betcha he means General Hydroponics.

what do you mean with innappropriate cures? it appears better than it was. If the rusting clears out I should be ok. And that might only require a little time.

Well, no I do mean "General Organic", the line is called biothrive by general hydroponics. Its what they like to call "vegan plant food". The site isn't first results you get in google. No idea about yahoo or bling.

GENERAL HYDROPONICS

and feed chart http://www.generalhydroponics.com/ge...-FeedChart.pdf

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Originally Posted by mgjscdhl

what do you mean with innappropriate cures? it appears better than it was. If the rusting clears out I should be ok. And that might only require a little time.

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Spraying (with a nutrient solution no less) an overwatered plant causes more stress. I call that inappropriate.
But apparently you have it under control, good luck.

ok. I understand what you mean.
Folliar feeding during veg was definitely a bad Idea. It wasn't with nutrients but damage was still done obviously. I guess its a bit hard to guarantee feed schedule. Everything is a little different, specially a micro grow with cfl.

Yes. Besides those rusted leaves the rest of plant looks well. The pot is heavy so it won't need water/nutrients for a little bit and it grown to 7" tall now.

Tiz easy to love your plants to death. Just try not to kill 'em before asking for help with saving them.

You'll get the hang of it soon enough. :thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by mgjscdhl

I've done folliar spraying to keep moisture level up and some water when topsoil was bone dry.

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Don't think overwatering is an issue unless the soil is very heavy, thus foliars shouldn't be a problem. Since the soil is peat and perlite, overwatering is going to take some effort. I seriously doubt this is your problem.

Again, I'd recommend getting a soil test kit. I've seen a 1 use kit for under $5 at Home Depot, and $20 for a nicer one at the local hardware store. You need to be sure your SOIL pH is also appropriate. I go for 6.5-6.7. Usually my water is at 7.3 before adding nutes, and with a lot of peat in the mix this has worked for me on many dif. gardens. The test kit will also tell you if your nuts are out of balance.

Reading your post again, you're watering with a solution in the low 6's, so I still think you have a pH prob., but maybe on the low end and not the high end like I had. I always add lime to my mixes to balance the peat moss.

Ok Dorje, what are the signs for overwatering, and what are his indicators of ph issues? And what's the difference in appearance between the two?

Soil meters are 100% unreliable crap. Unless you are either replenishing used soil and looking for a ballpark figure, or if you are mixing your own. Most quality potting mixes are pre-buffered, so will show no changes till buffers fade. You'll want to keep your water from fighting the buffers, and only knowing soil ph won't help there.

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Originally Posted by Rusty Trichome

Ok Dorje, what are the signs for overwatering, and what are his indicators of ph issues? And what's the difference in appearance between the two?

Soil meters are 100% unreliable crap. Unless you are either replenishing used soil and looking for a ballpark figure, or if you are mixing your own. Most quality potting mixes are pre-buffered, so will show no changes till buffers fade. You'll want to keep your water from fighting the buffers, and only knowing soil ph won't help there.

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overwatering makes leafs droopy, pH causes nute lockout and can show as different symptoms. Drooping leafs with yellow banding could be zinc, but as I said, prolly a result of pH being off.

I don't think it's overwatering because a 50/50 mix of peat and perlite is impossible to overwater if he's waiting for it to dry out, which he stated he was.

I'm not suggesting a soil meter, but a complete soil test like LaMotte or Security. This will tell you the pH of the soil, you need a 2nd test kit that measures water pH so you know what pH you're watering with. It also doesn't hurt to know (yes, in "ballpark" terms) if your soil nutes are balanced. I've suggested soil testing to many people who find they have way too much or too little of one major nutrient, or their pH was off.

Close, but no cigar. Droopy leaves, pillowed effect, severe yellowing (no nutrient uptake) with necrotic spots (possible root rot) are signs of overwatering. Veining is likely the result of the wash-out from too much moisture. Roots need air, which the overwatering blocks. Spraying compounds this problem.

Yellowing (nutrient lockout) with beginning signs of the claw, (downturning leaf fingers eventually forming what looks like a claw) and early deformation of leaf structure are the early signs of ph issues.

Flowering and late-flowering symptoms would need more info before diagnosing.

I'm not sure how you still think it's overwatering if the mix is 50/50 perlite/peat and he's waiting until at least the top of the mix is dry before watering again? I'm not saying it's def. not overwatering, I'm just not sure how it could happen given the mix and his watering habits?

Unless he's leaving the pots sitting in water in the trays pictured after watering, or the pots have no way to drain.

Also, the pH of peat moss is about 4, perlite is mostly neutral, and he's watering with water in the low 6s. What are the chances the soil pH is way too low?;)

oh. No, I do not allow it to sit in standing water. I stop watering as I see it starting and just dump the tray in a sink or toilet before sitting it back in the growbox.

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Originally Posted by Dorje113

Also, the pH of peat moss is about 4, perlite is mostly neutral, and he's watering with water in the low 6s. What are the chances the soil pH is way too low?;)

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He said he uses a soilless mix. (with added perlite...?) Usually that means a peat-based mix, which most contain buffers added by the manufacturers. Were he growing in straight peat with added perlite, I might entertain the possibility. Most all of the potting mixes I've tried are buffered to near neutral ph, (6.6 to 7ish) so no... I do not think it's a ph problem. No way he could have burned-through the buffers already, and it looks like overwatering. And yes...even with additional perlite, you can oversaturate.

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Originally Posted by mgjscdhl

Soil is soiless mix with 1/2 perlite as peatmoss.

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Does this mean your mix is 50% perlite and 50% peat moss?

Gotta admit, that wording had me wondering too. But to me, the photo's and other info tell the story.

At best, a combo of low-end ph (yet still in range) and overwatering. At least to these old eyes.

What about humidity being so low? would that effect the plant? usually its 60-70% for vegging...

yes, its mostly peat moss. Its not a true 1/2 mix because I put in more peat because of the consistancy of the mix. Its still probably 30-40% perlite though.

Good news I did get a humidifier and mother nature has been kind. I've kept it 40-50% most of the time. I'm still tweaking it but I can probably sustain 50% most of the time

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Originally Posted by mgjscdhl

yes, its mostly peat moss. Its not a true 1/2 mix because I put in more peat because of the consistancy of the mix. Its still probably 30-40% perlite though.

Good news I did get a humidifier and mother nature has been kind. I've kept it 40-50% most of the time. I'm still tweaking it but I can probably sustain 50% most of the time

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OK, I stand by my assertion that your pH is too low. You need to add lime to balance the pH of the peat moss. Hydrated lime can be watered in, but don't try to change it too fast, and you NEED a soil test kit to know how much to change it and how much it's changed.

I use a similar mix, but it's 50% potting soil like fox farm ocean forest. This adds nutrients and raises pH.

Humidity doesn't make much of a difference. I live in CO, where there is NO humidity a lot of the time, and it hasn't caused any problems. They seem to like high altitude and low humidity :thumbsup: However, the closer you can come to ideal the better, so keep the humidifier since you already have it.

it was a couple points higher earlier. I guess though with folliar feeding AND ph it might be hard to know why leaves were changing yellow.

Ok. So the lime could be added to several waterings? What kind of dosing, etc.. would you suggest? That could work and alot easier than I thought.. Let me know.

I'm half asking this one, meaning I think I know what kind you mean. Is it similar to rapidtest soil kit? (couple of test strips for ph, npk values)

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Originally Posted by mgjscdhl

it was a couple points higher earlier. I guess though with folliar feeding AND ph it might be hard to know why leaves were changing yellow.

Ok. So the lime could be added to several waterings? What kind of dosing, etc.. would you suggest? That could work and alot easier than I thought.. Let me know.

I'm half asking this one, meaning I think I know what kind you mean. Is it similar to rapidtest soil kit? (couple of test strips for ph, npk values)

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Any Home Depot or garden center should have soil test kits. The best one (forget the brand) uses liquid drops, I have one branded "Security" that comes with tablets, and is pretty good. Rapidtest comes with those capsules you have to dump the powder out of, which is a PITA and prolly not as good as the other 2 I mentioned.

As far as adjusting pH, maybe it's better to just use some pH UP and measure the pH of the water you're adding. It's hard to say how much to try and change pH, you can do it too quickly and cause more problems. IF your pH is too low, I'd water with pH around neutral (7) or slightly higher.

would you mind if I start with a stupid question? what is pita?
I do recall seeing a soil kit. I think it was at canadian tire, but it was the rapidtest kit. I saw the kit you mean on ebay. I've yet to look at a garden center we have in town.

I'm guessing these kits are a bit more reliable method than runoff. So maybee I should wait to see what it actually shows up as. She has stabilized, though not yet on full fertilizer. It would be interesting to see what those kits show for npk and ph. Seems a reasonable investment for a newcommer so I'll try finding one

PITA
Pain In The Ass

ahh ok lol

I have the best solution, cut it down and smoke it, lol. :thumbsup:

I mean I haven't tried or anything but isn't the whole point is to smoke the buds? The rest can't have alot of cannaboids

:rasta: :rastasmoke: :jointsmile: