President bitchslaps the bankers. Round 1.

President Barack Obama signs student loan changes into law

March 31, 2010

WASHINGTON (AP) - President Barack Obama approved legislation Tuesday that makes the government the primary issuer of student loans.

Proponents of the change say it will provide bigger grants for college students who need them and relaxed payment terms for students with loans. It will also more money available for community colleges and historically black institutions

On the other side of the coin, banks and other financial institutions stand to lose.

cont.

Associated Press

That is a very good thing for me.

But should tax payers be forced to pay for someone elses college?
I've got an old piece of shit car but I don't expect tax payers to buy me a new one.

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Originally Posted by killerweed420

But should tax payers be forced to pay for someone elses college?
I've got an old piece of shit car but I don't expect tax payers to buy me a new one.

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That is a good question.

One thing for sure, a society with highly educated people usually has a higher standard of living. Also, if more people are better educated they make more money and pay more in taxes.

On the other hand, if the government didn't take so much money in taxes, people would be able to buy more stuff, and that would make more jobs. Then maybe they could afford to pay for collage themselves.

Maybe they could discuss it more in a "joint" session of congress. :rastasmoke:

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Originally Posted by pepurr

...Maybe they could discuss it more in a "joint" session of congress. :rastasmoke:

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:rastasmoke:

I was fortunate that I didn't have to borrow much to get thru college and I worked all thru it. I think everyone else should do the same. Don't borrow money in general unless you want to be a slave to usury. But then again, my tuition and reg fees back then were $420 a quarter :stoned:

here's the way I see it. I agree with the above that its in our collective interest to have an educated society, more tax revenues, etc.

but I've never seen the value that the banks bring into the whole equation. the loans are guanteed by the federal gov't (which means that the feds can, and will, take away your social security to collect the payments). So the banks have zero risk and enjoy massive rewards in interest revenue for doing jack shit. I'd like them taken completely out of the mix. I really hope this is just a warm up. :jointsmile:

I was going to come up some kinda cleansing the temple of the money changer theme for Easter but thought naaa f it. :rastasmoke:

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Originally Posted by pepurr

Also, if more people are better educated they make more money and pay more in taxes.

:rastasmoke:

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Thats a really smart thought.

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Originally Posted by killerweed420

But should tax payers be forced to pay for someone elses college?
I've got an old piece of shit car but I don't expect tax payers to buy me a new one.

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I know what you mean. I'm getting a car in about a week. I'm VERY excited about it. It's not pretty, or new, but it will get me from point A to point B, and if I'm lucky maybe even back to point A for a repeat :D

I find it difficult to comprehend why our country is in the loan business period. Starting with the commerce clause mis-interpretetation many decades ago, and continuing with the sub-prime mess created when our elected government officials got together with ACORN chapters to start picketing bankers offices and homes, to create a friction between the classes. Pitting those responsible with their money and finances, against the crack-buying welfare parents and social justice programs. Regulating the banking industry I do understand, but socializing it is unsustainable and undesirable.

What elected official has the right to tell me that even though someone else can't afford an education or a home, is on welfare, and has defaulted in the past, that they 'deserve' the same opportunity as me...whom has been working for 40 years to maintain my own level of comfort...and I get to foot the bill when they fail? Bullshit.
Same with tuition...even though some moron can't get a part-time job to take resopnsibility for his/her own life, or go to a community college as a starting point...me and my children will assist them through 14 years of frat parties, binge drinking and unlearning American values and morals in a planned attack on constitutional laws and intent...?

Funny how some of the liberals say it's the charitable christian principles we need to follow since we all are created equal...we all should be afforded the same opportunities regardless of personal responsibility and effort required to maintain that standard. But when the fuck did liberals become concerned with christian principals, as all of their principles and "seperation of church and state" mantra(s) indicate a distinct disdain for christianity and christians? (God was a personal responsibility advocate, and charity began at home, not in the government)
Any lie to fill the void of morality, I guess. Whatever it takes to convince the masses of their altruistic intents, which are actually centered to remove our choices, side-step personal responsibility and dictate my neighbor's value in my financial stability, is truly a socialists dream.

Obama has slipped into a lame-duck presidency but perhaps will be destined to be well-regarded in history. ;) <cough, choke>

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Originally Posted by Rusty Trichome

Funny how some of the liberals say it's the charitable christian principles we need to follow since we all are created equal...we all should be afforded the same opportunities regardless of personal responsibility and effort required to maintain that standard. But when the fuck did liberals become concerned with christian principals, as all of their principles and "seperation of church and state" mantra(s) indicate a distinct disdain for christianity and christians? (God was a personal responsibility advocate, and charity began at home, not in the government)
Any lie to fill the void of morality, I guess. Whatever it takes to convince the masses of their altruistic intents, which are actually centered to remove our choices, side-step personal responsibility and dictate my neighbor's value in my financial stability, is truly a socialists dream.

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This is funny, true and just that.. Whatever it takes to convince the masses of their altruistic intents, but don't for a second think that left or right operate any differently in these regards, they just spin their politricks with a different colored yarn.

I don't see this a Christian or moral cause. I see it as a good return on investment. Educated people make MUCH more money and thus pay MUCH more in taxes. It is that simple. That is why I support education in general for Americans. strictly for its ROI value.

But mostly what the President has corrected here is that my tax money will no longer go to subsidise the student loan industry for doing nothing. This new law does expand grants but the loan thing is not a handout. It is a loan. We, the taxpayers, will now be earning interest on our investment in student loans as well as receiving a substantial dividend down the road in more tax revenues. I see it as win win all around. except for the student loan profiteers, they are screwed. :rastasmoke:

It is good to see the government step in and nationalize another industry they screwed up with regulations, corporate welfare, and general incompetence. Yup, sounds like something I should be on board with. From what I read this appears nothing more than student welfare.

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Students who have low incomes or meet certain other eligibility requirements and who take out loans after July 1, 2014, will see their payments limited to 10 percent of their discretionary income after graduation. Current law caps payments at 15 percent of income. For students who make their loan payments on time, the government will forgive the balance after 20 years, instead of 25. Public service workers â?? teachers, nurses, police officers and those in the military â?? will see any remaining debt forgiven after just 10 years of repayment.

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Yeah, thats how you make something profitable. College is an investment! Everyone is not entitled to an education, much less at the tax payers expense! Than on top of that, failures are not even required to pay all the money back? That isn't a loan, it's fucking welfare. Anyone who thinks the tax payer is going to come out ahead has not paid attention to past government actions. Social Security, which the government claimed was being "saved" for citizens, is now solvent despite having had more people pay into it than ever collected!

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Originally Posted by Rusty Trichome

I find it difficult to comprehend why our country is in the loan business period. Starting with the commerce clause mis-interpretetation many decades ago, and continuing with the sub-prime mess created when our elected government officials got together with ACORN chapters to start picketing bankers offices and homes, to create a friction between the classes. Pitting those responsible with their money and finances, against the crack-buying welfare parents and social justice programs. Regulating the banking industry I do understand, but socializing it is unsustainable and undesirable.

What elected official has the right to tell me that even though someone else can't afford an education or a home, is on welfare, and has defaulted in the past, that they 'deserve' the same opportunity as me...whom has been working for 40 years to maintain my own level of comfort...and I get to foot the bill when they fail? Bullshit.
Same with tuition...even though some moron can't get a part-time job to take resopnsibility for his/her own life, or go to a community college as a starting point...me and my children will assist them through 14 years of frat parties, binge drinking and unlearning American values and morals in a planned attack on constitutional laws and intent...?

Funny how some of the liberals say it's the charitable christian principles we need to follow since we all are created equal...we all should be afforded the same opportunities regardless of personal responsibility and effort required to maintain that standard. But when the fuck did liberals become concerned with christian principals, as all of their principles and "seperation of church and state" mantra(s) indicate a distinct disdain for christianity and christians? (God was a personal responsibility advocate, and charity began at home, not in the government)
Any lie to fill the void of morality, I guess. Whatever it takes to convince the masses of their altruistic intents, which are actually centered to remove our choices, side-step personal responsibility and dictate my neighbor's value in my financial stability, is truly a socialists dream.

Obama has slipped into a lame-duck presidency but perhaps will be destined to be well-regarded in history. ;) <cough, choke>

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I understand your frustration. I am glad you express your concerns. It is through dialog that we come to consensus.

However, the use of wording like, "Pitting those responsible with their money and finances, against the crack-buying welfare parents and social justice programs.", and, "me and my children will assist them through 14 years of frat parties, binge drinking and unlearning American values and morals ", is irresponsible and inflammatory.

By using language like that you lump people into undeserved groups. The vast majority of people on assistance are not "crack-buying welfare parents". Like wise, the majority of people in collage are responsible, focused and have goals for the future.

We will never get anywhere worth while, as a nation, if people continue to make generalizations that are not true. It only causes resentment, tempers to flare and mistrust. It is counter productive.

On the flip side, keep up voicing discontent where it is due. It helps mankind to advance. :rastasmoke:

I do think Obama will slip into a lame-duck presidency. It is funny. At first they were comparing him to Lincoln. He hadn't even been in office long enough to make that comparison. Now he has to live up to their expectations. He can't do it. No one can. Their expectations change all to fast. Obama stands for change? Nothing has changed. They are all the same. :(

so all the critics think we should have kept the status quo? :wtf: Yeah, I want my hard earned tax money going to the CEO of some student loan company so they can build them another multi-million dollar private golf course (true story :) ). That is what this issue is about. not crack babies or unicorns or whatever the fuck y'all are talking about. :rastasmoke:

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Originally Posted by boaz

so all the critics think we should have kept the status quo? :wtf: Yeah, I want my hard earned tax money going to the CEO of some student loan company so they can build them another multi-million dollar private golf course (true story :). That is what this issue is about. not crack babies or unicorns or whatever the fuck y'all are talking about. :rastasmoke:

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You missed the point entirely. I'm not for the the status quo, I'm for government moving out the way and letting laissez-faire capitalism control the markets. The government should not be giving them any tax money. Is this really that hard to understand.

You seem to not understand what Corporate Welfare is so here is a link describing it.

Corporate welfare - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Originally Posted by pepurr

I understand your frustration. I am glad you express your concerns. It is through dialog that we come to consensus.

However, the use of wording like, "Pitting those responsible with their money and finances, against the crack-buying welfare parents and social justice programs.", and, "me and my children will assist them through 14 years of frat parties, binge drinking and unlearning American values and morals ", is irresponsible and inflammatory.

By using language like that you lump people into undeserved groups. The vast majority of people on assistance are not "crack-buying welfare parents". Like wise, the majority of people in collage are responsible, focused and have goals for the future.

We will never get anywhere worth while, as a nation, if people continue to make generalizations that are not true. It only causes resentment, tempers to flare and mistrust. It is counter productive.

On the flip side, keep up voicing discontent where it is due. It helps mankind to advance. :rastasmoke:
...(

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yeah, i agree. this forum would be much better if people wouldn't come on here and just repeat of bunch of crap they've heard on talk radio or something. :twocents: that shit has no value to me.

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Originally Posted by boaz

yeah, i agree. this forum would be much better if people wouldn't come on here and just repeat of bunch of crap they've heard on talk radio or something. :twocents: that shit has no value to me.

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I can agree with that statement, however, many liberals are guilty of the same.

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Originally Posted by JaggedEdge

You missed the point entirely. I'm not for the the status quo, I'm for government moving out the way and letting laissez-faire capitalism control the markets. The government should not be giving them any tax money. Is this really that hard to understand.

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you don't seem to understand that this is exactly what this does it ENDS corporate welfare of the student loan companies. you do understand that, correct???

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Originally Posted by JaggedEdge

I can agree with that statement, however, many liberals are guilty of the same.

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prolly true, but i gotta be honest where are all those liberals that everyone keeps talking about?? I voted for McCain. I am a reactionary libertarian for the most part. :jointsmile:

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Originally Posted by boaz

I voted for McCain. I am a reactionary libertarian for the most part. :jointsmile:

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Your not a libertarian if you support the government taking over yet another industry. Libertarians by nature are for small or no government, them taking over the student loans does not equate to a smaller government.

There are far better ways of ending Corporate Welfare, mainly the government stepping the fuck aside.

Edit: Laissez-faire capitalism is the answer not a new government monopoly. How is it private monopolies are evil but government ones are acceptable?

What bugs me the most about the student loan deal is them tacking it on to the health care bill.

I hate when they do that. I believe if a bill is put in for one thing, it should stay for one thing. Being able to tack on unrelated crap to a bill causes political corruption. It's like trading in influence.

It causes some to vote for a bill they don't really like cause they will get something out of it. They are not being true to themselves or to the ones who voted them into office.

the federal gov't already guarantees student loans so we, the tax payer assume the risk, but we allow private corp's to earn all the reward. How is this fair to the tax payers? I guess the true libertarian position would be for the gov't to get out of it alltogether but short of that I am happy to at least see the gov't cutting out the middle men who do nothing. like I said i didn't vote for Obama and I'm not a big supporter but this is the one thing I do agree with them on.

I guess on this forum agreeing with even one little thing he has done makes me commie. :stoned:

but on a side note, thank you for all the input Jagged and everyone. :)

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Originally Posted by pepurr

By using language like that you lump people into undeserved groups. The vast majority of people on assistance are not "crack-buying welfare parents". Like wise, the majority of people in collage are responsible, focused and have goals for the future.

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You have your opinions, I have mine. I do acknowledge there are those in true need of assistance, but after 2, 5, 10 years (building a welfare family) it is no longer assistance...it's income. Make 'em work for the welfare dollars, and all of a sudden being on welfare isn't such a profitable arrangement.

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Originally Posted by pepurr

We will never get anywhere worth while, as a nation, if people continue to make generalizations that are not true. It only causes resentment, tempers to flare and mistrust. It is counter productive.

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Yeah. Stifle all dissent, and mock those that disagree. So I should just bury my head in the sand and acquire a bleeding heart for the uninspired and lazy? Hardly.
If I come across a person or family in need, I offer help if I'm able. But it's my choice in accordance with my abilitiy to do so. According to the government I have no choice, and the rights of the uninspired and lazy will only cost us 250 billion a year. All this welfare is doing is promoting a laziness and an inappropriate sense of entitlement funded by those that aren't gaming the system, being irresponsible with their birth control, or using the welfare to fund their drug sales and habits. And then there's their medical bills, crime rates, fatherless families...

So the govt. wants to put everyone in college...? I'm curious where all those high paying jobs will be once they graduate, in order to pay-off that collegiate welfare. One thing is for sure...it won't be here in the States under obama's policies.

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Originally Posted by killerweed420

But should tax payers be forced to pay for someone elses college?
I've got an old piece of shit car but I don't expect tax payers to buy me a new one.

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You do pay for it, with all the bank bullshit. Just because these taxes are going somewhere else doesn't mean they are already being paid.

-C

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Originally Posted by demoreal

Thats a really smart thought.

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yea it looks good on paper that quote but truth be known most college grads don't do much more in life than people like to think.on top of that they are just as wild with their spending and getting in to debt than most poor people.by the simple fact that it's there for them to use.

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Originally Posted by ForgetClassC

You do pay for it, with all the bank bullshit. Just because these taxes are going somewhere else doesn't mean they are already being paid.

-C

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so that makes it right?

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Originally Posted by pepurr

What bugs me the most about the student loan deal is them tacking it on to the health care bill.

I hate when they do that. I believe if a bill is put in for one thing, it should stay for one thing. Being able to tack on unrelated crap to a bill causes political corruption. It's like trading in influence.

It causes some to vote for a bill they don't really like cause they will get something out of it. They are not being true to themselves or to the ones who voted them into office.

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yeah, that whole process was about as sleazy as it gets. not that the repubs are any better. :wtf:

again, i didn't vote for the dude, i voted for the other crooks on the ballot, but i am just glad to see one thing go right in DCland. i don't want my tax money going to guarentee student loan profits to private banks. this is the kind of commie sh*t that needed to be corrected and now is. :thumbsup:

It's just one thing after another that the government is taking control over. Healthcare, mortgages (fannie/freddie), savings accounts (FDIC), college loans...

The more things the government regulates and controls, the worse this country gets.

What do you think will happen when students get their hands on these loans? All the sudden everyone can go to college on loans!! YAY! Colleges can now raise their prices even further since students have access to all this cash. Tuition is now higher, which gives the school more money to hire additional staff/maintenance people. SOMEBODY has to pay for it. Taxes get raised. People get pissed off because they're paying too much to the government. Eventually there is a breaking point....

When the government gains control of a sector, do they ever give up control and give it back to private companies? Nope! Things only go one way until eventually you're a socialist country with insane taxes, lots of people not working (why would you work when everything goes to taxes anyways?), and government controlled everything.

:beatdeadhorse: one more time and then I give up. the federal gov't ALREADY guarantee's student loans. it has for about 30 years or so. IN ADDITION to this, the federal gov't guarantee's a profit to private banks. how is this NOT corporate welfare and socialism??? someone please enlighten me.

what this law means is that my tax money will no longer subsidize private banks. I'm just not seeing the arguement that eliminating corporate welfare is a movement towards socialism. :wtf: I see as just the opposite.

Honestly most of y'all are preachin to choir with all this libertarian stuff. But if people want to pretend that I am argueing the liberal cause and want to jump in with their best tea bagese, then feel free. :rastasmoke:

Yeah that helps me out a ton. I haven't noticed the difference though. Maybe Obama will turn out to be the next Andrew Jackson -- bank slayer.

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Originally Posted by nicksevenfold

Yeah that helps me out a ton. I haven't noticed the difference though. Maybe Obama will turn out to be the next Andrew Jackson -- bank slayer.

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:cool: damn I hope so. we need another Stonewall Jackson to put the hammer down on the money changers, again. I guess Kennedy tried but that didn't work out so well that time.

But, Obama has a long ways to go to make up for the rest of the crap that is going on with the banks right now. :wtf: they seem to have completely slipped their leash. :jointsmile:

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Originally Posted by palerider7777

so that makes it right?

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Haha, fuck no, its just the government changing the color of the dildo they are fucking you with.

-C

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Originally Posted by boaz

yeah, that whole process was about as sleazy as it gets. not that the repubs are any better. :wtf:

again, i didn't vote for the dude, i voted for the other crooks on the ballot, but i am just glad to see one thing go right in DCland. i don't want my tax money going to guarentee student loan profits to private banks. this is the kind of commie sh*t that needed to be corrected and now is. :thumbsup:

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Well this ime around I voted third party and I suggest we all do it next time because the dems and reps play us all for fools and stay away from those tea party people.:thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by ForgetClassC

Haha, fuck no, its just the government changing the color of the dildo they are fucking you with.

-C

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haha :thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Washedout

Well this ime around I voted third party and I suggest we all do it next time because the dems and reps play us all for fools and stay away from those tea party people.:thumbsup:

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:greenthumb: yeah, I would definetly vote third party but they aren't even allowed on the ballot here. :wtf: plant lp's for a bountiful harvest of freedom and justice. :rasta:

I was for Romney, but he left early :[ lolol

...who could legitimately be called a 'statesman'....

...wow... what would such a person be like...?

>cough< rEVOLution... <cough>

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Originally Posted by pepurr

What bugs me the most about the student loan deal is them tacking it on to the health care bill.

I hate when they do that. I believe if a bill is put in for one thing, it should stay for one thing. Being able to tack on unrelated crap to a bill causes political corruption. It's like trading in influence.

It causes some to vote for a bill they don't really like cause they will get something out of it. They are not being true to themselves or to the ones who voted them into office.

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I'll tell you what bugs the hell out of me and the banks as far as student loans go. Back in the early 90s, I took out a loan, one of several, from a Signet Bank for around 4K. When I graduated, I consolidated all of my loans under the Federal government as being a single repay source. Well, my loans have been on deferment for years due to disability, but this one loan has turned into a loan from hell.

It was sold by Signet Bank some time in the late 90s to a bank in the midwest. I started getting calls from a collection agency about this loan, and I told them it was consolidated and they could go Cheney themselves. I also called the bank who turned me into the CA, and they discovered that the loan was consolidated under the Feds, and this was also confirmed by the DOE, but, somewhere along the line, the original paperwork got lost (sic). Now, my credit report is showing a $20,000 charge off by Wachovia Bank on this very same loan giving me a negative report in this respect. And this charge off was done during the time they were being bought by Wells Fargo.

The fucking banks are not only doing this to my loan, but to how many other thousands of student loans. Now, I'm going to have to go 'round and 'round again just to get this false charge off by the banksters off my credit record. The banksters and their backers in congress are the worst bandits to come along in a long, long time scamming us every which way but loose. :upsidedow