Calling Weezard - Coco Questions

Weez,

I think I've had enough with soil. Right now I have three plants that out of nowhere are having what I think is PH spotting. Rust colored spots on the biggest fan leaves. One one of the plants, even after flushing the oldest/biggest fan leaves are dried and curling up bad. I saw some tiny spots this morning on a white widow plant that has been spectacular until now. I think I would like to go coco on the next run.

On to the questions:

1. How do you set up your pots? Hand water or have a drip system?
2. Canna Coco nutes correct? A + B?
3. I have an RO system, so how much Calmag do you recommend I add to the water?
4. What sort of watering frequency should I expect?
5. Is there a particular feeding schedule you could refer me to, or go right off of the bottles?

I've really reached my limit of patience with the soil. Last two grows have had crazy PH problems in flower. I'm very disappointed this round as I was really looking forward to some stellar sensi star and white widow. Doesn't look like I'll get a nice yield at all.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ledtime

Weez,

I think I've had enough with soil. Right now I have three plants that out of nowhere are having what I think is PH spotting. Rust colored spots on the biggest fan leaves. One one of the plants, even after flushing the oldest/biggest fan leaves are dried and curling up bad. I saw some tiny spots this morning on a white widow plant that has been spectacular until now. I think I would like to go coco on the next run.

On to the questions:

1. How do you set up your pots? Hand water or have a drip system?
2. Canna Coco nutes correct? A + B?
3. I have an RO system, so how much Calmag do you recommend I add to the water?
4. What sort of watering frequency should I expect?
5. Is there a particular feeding schedule you could refer me to, or go right off of the bottles?

I've really reached my limit of patience with the soil. Last two grows have had crazy PH problems in flower. I'm very disappointed this round as I was really looking forward to some stellar sensi star and white widow. Doesn't look like I'll get a nice yield at all.

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Hey ledtime, I'm not weezard but I'm 3 weeks into flowering my first time growing with Coco and can spit a few things I learned over. We really need a Coco sub forum or something.

How do you set up your pots? Hand water or have a drip system?
I started my seedlings in red solo cups with coco and just watered every day until run off. I poked 5 holes the size of a pen in the bottom of the cups. Nutes were at about 1ml/L of Canna Coco A and B.

I have an RO system, so how much Calmag do you recommend I add to the water?
At first I experimented with RO water but didn't have CalMag+ and immediately after 2 weeks of vegging saw some issues and switched to just tap water + nutes + pH down. I was however told at my hydro shop that I should add about 4ml/Liter of CalMag+ to RO water. Also don't forget to correct your pH.

What sort of watering frequency should I expect?
I water everyday with nutes with atleast 10% run off. I only flushed once in the entire cycle so far and that's because I didnt' pH balance from the get go. I will do 1 last flush during my last week of flower.

Is there a particular feeding schedule you could refer me to, or go right off of the bottles?
If growing with Canna nutes goto: Grow Guide | CANNA UK and end up with something like this: http://imgur.com/QJXF2.png
Then just ramp up your dosage from 1/4 to about 3/4th of what they say on that list. I tried to ramp up to what they reccomend but ended up burning some leaves so I backed off to about 3/4th and things are looking great!

As for my current grow, it started off okay and then got worse but now is looking great. The problem I had was with pH, I never adjusted it. Try to get your pH down to 5.6~6.2 and you'll be solid. I saw my plants perk right back once I got the pH dialed in.

Check my sig for my first grow using Canna Coco and Canna nutes. I'm 3 weeks into flower :hippy:

I'm as well 2 weeks into flower on coco...I love this stuff!!!! I started everything out in solo cups and then moved them into 5 and 7 gallon smart pots (they are made of the same material as a weed barrier in your yard). I am doing a drain to waste as well and I shoot for the %10 run off as well. I think Canna recommends %30, but that just seems a little over the top to me. Also Aquanaut, I was explicitly told not to flush coco with just straight water. Doing this raises your EC and also there is bacteria in the coco naturally that is septic to the plants and prevents disease issues that gets washed away with a water flush. I also water on a daily basis, and nute with every watering. Nutrients I use are Canna a and B, Rhizotonic, Cannazyme, Boost, and pk 13/14 starting next week.

I use coco aswell and I think it is a great medium to grow in. It's nice to work with and I like the ability to control exactly what and how much food your plants get. If you do get nute problems they are easier to correct than in soil. I use pretty much the same watering schedule and dosages as Aquanaut and Jord0713 I am very happy with the results I have got so far.

:jointsmile:

Maybe if we make enough of a ruckus one of the admins will make a CoCo sub forum. :hippy:

@Jord0713 - How do you like Boost? I'm currently only using A, B, and PK. Deciding if I want to grab Rhizotonic, Canazyme, and Boost for my next grow. I read mix reviews on Boost.. almost seems like the star line for Canna is: Coco A + B, PK, Rhizotonic, and Cannazyme. Boost just costs so much!

@PhatJay - Howdy!

Thanks for the info guys. Watering everyday with nutes huh? Seems like you would go through quite of bit of A+B at 10mL per gallon. Is there any problem with mixing and PH'ing these nutes ahead of time? How long can they be mixed before being used?

Oh, I did send a request to the admin to add a Coco section. We'll see if they do it.

Yeap, my hydro shop said nute everyday and I have no problems with it. I tried the 1 day on and 1 day off but saw slower growth. As for pH, with my faucet water I need to add 4 drops of General Hydroponics PH Down per 1.75 liters (my water container).

I usually use all my nutes in a day and have little to none left over, which I toss and make fresh again every morning. I add water, ph down, A, and B in that order every morning. Sometimes I add a drop of Superthrive but can't really say it does anything, can't hurt.

:hippy:

I read somewhere that you need to let the canna nutes sit for about an hour in the water before PH'ing. It lets the the PH buffers stabilize?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aquanaut

Hey ledtime, I'm not weezard .

You'll do, brah!
Great post!


Check my sig for my first grow using Canna Coco and Canna nutes. I'm 3 weeks into flower :hippy:

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I'll be there.:)

Aloha, from

The real Wee 'zard

Howzit LT?

I've never used Canna Nutes.
Jus' some cheap kine Dyna-gro.
Seems to do the job.

1 tsp. per gallon with my tap water sets the PH dead center. 5.5 - 5.6.


You are getting very good info here.
All I can add is.

Use good quality coco. I like Botanicare.
And taste it before you nute it!
It won't hurt you.
If it tastes salty give it a pass.
Flotsam coconuts are cheap and plentiful.
The good coir is made from inland nuts and thoroughly rinsed.

Never let it dry completely, it's not soil, there's no second chance!

Checking moisture is best done by lifting the pot.
Not as heavy?
Time to water.
It is very hard to drown a plant with coco.
I germinate in it, clone in it and bloom in it.
But, I don't re-use it with the med garden.
It goes to the vegetable garden and in the ginger patch.

Welcome aboard. You will be pleased.

Aloha.
Weeze

Sounds great. Just worried about the drying out part. It means I have to be on top of it everyday. Doesn't leave much room for taking a weekend vacation.....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ledtime

Sounds great. Just worried about the drying out part. It means I have to be on top of it everyday. Doesn't leave much room for taking a weekend vacation.....

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Not so!
If you have to water everyday, it's past time to transplant.
I water every 3rd day.
When it gets to every other day, I grab a bigger pot.:thumbsup:

Weeze

good info from all...i've been looking at going to a straight coco since switching to all LED lights....but i have seen great results from some friends using House and Garden nute line....it jumped the yields bigtime and they have a specific formula for Coco!

Has anbody here used House & Garden? :hippy:

The Wee little lizard always seems to know how to bring a smile......That's the best news I've heard all day. It's been a really bad day between work and the plants.

Finally a good note. I can water every three days in coco. If any of you have looked at Weezard's albums, you will agree that this gentleman knows what he is talking about.

Pleased. Very pleased.

@Jord0713 - How do you like Boost? I'm currently only using A, B, and PK. Deciding if I want to grab Rhizotonic, Canazyme, and Boost for my next grow. I read mix reviews on Boost.. almost seems like the star line for Canna is: Coco A + B, PK, Rhizotonic, and Cannazyme. Boost just costs so much.


I highly highly recommend Rhizotonic. It is an awesome nute. My roots are blowing out of the sides of my 7 gallon smart pots...also if your plants are looking a bit sickly juice them with a little bit more Rhize and they are good to go. As far as the Boost this is my first go with it. I'll let you guys know after harvest. I painfully dropped the $110 for a liter so I hope it does what it says ;) ALSO jump on the cannazyme. It doesn't look like it does much, but the best way to look at it as like an insurance policy for your girls. It also builds and maintains those good bacterias in your coco...canna reccomens actually the last week of flowering to double the dosage of cannazyme. Doing this will keep your coco healthy and ready to re-use.

I am defiantly not an expert by any means on the stuff, but what I've done with it so far works (after LOTS of research). If anyone else has any recommendations or tips I love figuring out how to do this better.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Weezard

Not so!
If you have to water everyday, it's past time to transplant.
I water every 3rd day.
When it gets to every other day, I grab a bigger pot.:thumbsup:

Weeze

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Depends on your pot too!! I grow in smart pots therefore I am a glutton for watering. I have to water every day to day and a half even from the very beginning...I might have been able to go 2 days, but no more for sure.

Weez, I hate to ask a man to do this, but please describe your pots. :S2:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jord0713

Depends on your pot too!! I grow in smart pots therefore I am a glutton for watering. I have to water every day to day and a half even from the very beginning...I might have been able to go 2 days, but no more for sure.

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Smart pot?
They that smart, they should go get dey own water, yah:D.

I use what evah is at hand, but usually start wit' tall, (no cramp da tap root), paper cups, fulla coco.
Den drop dem in 4" square, plastic, seedling pots.
Den 6", den 8" square, white, plastic.

Because it's coco, I do 2 things differently.
1. I drill extra holes in, and near, the bottom.
2. I cut reflectix insulation to a close fit and cover the soil.
That stops Fungus gnats from breeding and slows evaporation loss from the soil surface.
It also reflects 97% of the light back up.
You needn't bother with perlite, or gravel in the bottom.
I don't use 'zymes either.

Not needed with this medium.

(Might not hurt, but does not help.)

Coco is NOT soil.
It's solid-state hydro and needs none of that kine stuff.
There's no "micro-herd" to coddle.
No good bugs vs. bad bugs.:D
We feed them directly with the end-result of the millions of hit or miss, organic, chemical reactions and digestions.

The bottom line of all that organic activity, are simple compounds that roots can absorb and the plant can apply without working too hard.

Bug poo.


With Hydro, and Coco, we skip all the underground drama and jus' feed 'em "Da blood of da vanquished", the end product of good organic activity.

Just that which they require and can use directly.:jointsmile:


All coco does is serve these compounds to the roots efficiently That, and it let's 'em have sweet, fresh air while they eat and drink all they can hold.


Is it organically naughty?:silly:
Is it cheating?:rolleyes:

Perhaps.
But it works a treat!!:jointsmile:

Aloha,
Weezard

Sounds good. I'm hopping on this train then. Looks like I'll be going to the hydro store on Friday for some Botanicare Coco! Have three and a half weeks approx left on the girls now. Then I can start the next batch.

Have some Lemon Skunk, Sharksbreath, Rock Lock, and some more Critical Sensi Star. I kept a few clones of the White Widow too. Should be interesting to see if I can get through a grow with coco with limited issues.

Hey, Ledtime! You will be happy. Coco rocks. To me, it's easier than soil, but it kinda handles like a soil, so I can't imagine anyone who's figured out "dirt" having any problems with this stuff. If I use larger pots so I don't need to water as often, the growth rate is more comparable to good soil. If I keep the pots smaller and "water" (with nutes, heh, heh) twice a day, the growth is freakin' unbelievable. If you screw something up, the next watering fixes it. It's not like having to re-balance a whole hydro circulation system.

I have some coco I've been using over a year now without problems. The fibers seem to get broken down to a finer consistency but still transport water just fine. I've also re-used it, but for indoor gardening I only run it once, then it goes to the outside potted vegetables. Sweet peppers love it. I just let it dry out and half-ass sift the roots out with some .25" screen. Anything left behind becomes "beneficials" eventually, IMO.

I've used only Botanicare coco in the small bricks. It's the most expensive way to buy it, though. For me, the storage / transport convenience is worth it, YMMV. But I test it every time, and it's never had salt. Some kinds do, so be careful.

Also, on Weezard's recommend I tried the Dyna nutes and I will buy them again. I've used Botanicare PBP before (in DWC, too) to see how organic treated me, and I liked the Dyna better, for potency and flavor. It produced better tasting peppers and tomatoes, as well. I like to run a pretty sterile grow environment, so I guess for me the chemical nutes offer better bioavailability than stuff that needs to be fermented, putrified, or otherwise decomposed first. Although I think Weez said that already with different words. :thumbsup:

In soil, letting your medium dry out a bit so your roots can breathe is a necessary evil. My "problem" with it is: as the soil slowly dries out, the nutes tend to become much more concentrated. PH gonna change just because of that, also. If you try to run hot nutes you'll scorch your plants a bit each time the pots dry out.

But in coco, you can run a fairly stiff (heh, heh) nutrient solution that gets flushed out / displaced by your next watering, before it has the chance to concentrate to stressful levels for the plant. It's like hydroponics; and each time you water you're giving the plant a new reservoir(?)

What was I talking about?

Oh, yeah. Search some of Sarah Louise's posts; she's been using coco for awhile and always has good advice.

Coco be da next big thing, mon. The big box stores' small houseplants are all arriving in coco all of a sudden. Vegetable plants that used to ship in "peat pots" are now arriving in "coco fiber pots."

Hey DH! Yeah, time to play with the good stuff. Have any of you guys read this thread?

Compact SOG with CFL's - International Cannagraphic Magazine Forums

Micro Grow. Really impressive. I wonder what could be accomplished with coco and this practice.

I really like that guy's second thread (DrBud Takes CFL SOG To The Next Level), he ups the wattage and runs 2 boxes like that. It's definitely given me quite a few ideas for the future...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DreadedHermie

Hey, Ledtime! You will be happy. Coco rocks. To me, it's easier than soil, but it kinda handles like a soil, so I can't imagine anyone who's figured out "dirt" having any problems with this stuff. If I use larger pots so I don't need to water as often, the growth rate is more comparable to good soil. If I keep the pots smaller and "water" (with nutes, heh, heh) twice a day, the growth is freakin' unbelievable. If you screw something up, the next watering fixes it. It's not like having to re-balance a whole hydro circulation system.

I have some coco I've been using over a year now without problems. The fibers seem to get broken down to a finer consistency but still transport water just fine. I've also re-used it, but for indoor gardening I only run it once, then it goes to the outside potted vegetables. Sweet peppers love it. I just let it dry out and half-ass sift the roots out with some .25" screen. Anything left behind becomes "beneficials" eventually, IMO.

I've used only Botanicare coco in the small bricks. It's the most expensive way to buy it, though. For me, the storage / transport convenience is worth it, YMMV. But I test it every time, and it's never had salt. Some kinds do, so be careful.

Also, on Weezard's recommend I tried the Dyna nutes and I will buy them again. I've used Botanicare PBP before (in DWC, too) to see how organic treated me, and I liked the Dyna better, for potency and flavor. It produced better tasting peppers and tomatoes, as well. I like to run a pretty sterile grow environment, so I guess for me the chemical nutes offer better bioavailability than stuff that needs to be fermented, putrified, or otherwise decomposed first. Although I think Weez said that already with different words. :thumbsup:

In soil, letting your medium dry out a bit so your roots can breathe is a necessary evil. My "problem" with it is: as the soil slowly dries out, the nutes tend to become much more concentrated. PH gonna change just because of that, also. If you try to run hot nutes you'll scorch your plants a bit each time the pots dry out.

But in coco, you can run a fairly stiff (heh, heh) nutrient solution that gets flushed out / displaced by your next watering, before it has the chance to concentrate to stressful levels for the plant. It's like hydroponics; and each time you water you're giving the plant a new reservoir(?)

What was I talking about?

Oh, yeah. Search some of Sarah Louise's posts; she's been using coco for awhile and always has good advice.

Coco be da next big thing, mon. The big box stores' small houseplants are all arriving in coco all of a sudden. Vegetable plants that used to ship in "peat pots" are now arriving in "coco fiber pots."

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awesome advice! This whole thread is really helpful! thanks!!!! :jointsmile:

Weez or DH,

What are the specs of your source water that you are using? My tap water is pretty hard and has a pH of 8.5. I have an RO system for the plants. Didn't know how much Calmag I should add to it if I were to give your Dyna-Gro nutes a try. My shop carries it and it would be a lot cheaper than the canna nutes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ledtime

Weez or DH,

What are the specs of your source water that you are using? My tap water is pretty hard and has a pH of 8.5. I have an RO system for the plants. Didn't know how much Calmag I should add to it if I were to give your Dyna-Gro nutes a try. My shop carries it and it would be a lot cheaper than the canna nutes.

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the CalMag dosage not critical.
I slop in about a tsp per gallon.
My Tap water is PH7.2 and ppm of 120.
The calmag takes it to about 250.
Then I add nutes to about 600 ppm.
If the strain no complain, I let the ppm climb until run-off is about 1200.
Then give them plain PHd water alternating with 1 tsp per gallon nutes to keep it there.
Only have to do that the first time with a new strain, and take some notes.
Then it becomes routine.:cool:

Aloha,
Weeze

Hey fellas, I recently had an LED in coco. There are definitely a few things to know about it before you jump in, but I think it's a great soil substitute with very promising results... just watch your pH and ppm's, and especially your ppms if you're using LEDs. I have a few friends who are using this stuff right now manufactured by Botanicare specifically for coco, CNS17 Coco Bloom | Botanicare.

Also, here's an invaluable .pdf link to something Advanced Nutrients put out the other day entitled the "pH Manifesto". It goes over a lot about growing in coco, and just about every other medium, and keeping your pH in the "sweet spot" range. It's a bit a of read (20 min) but well well worth your time. Cool to see you guys using this awesome sustainable resource for a medium.

Here's the pH Manifesto link

http://growersunderground.com/pH_Manifesto.pdf

-A

Thanks DH, I tend to use coco in the same fashion you do. When I first used it I treated it much the way I had soil, but over time, I moved to methods more in line with hydroponic principles, eg) continuous access to nutrient solution and feeding with greater frequency to maintain moisture levels.

I aim to feed daily, I do have a foursome flowering in 6 litre (1.5 Gal) pots that are feeding twice daily, but even for me, that is a bit time consuming and I may pot them up to reduce feeding frequency.

The daily feed of fresh nutrients resets the nutrient concentration, pH, oxygen levels and temperature. The only thing I do differently for coco than rockwool or straight perlite is ignore runoff pH. Coco runoff does not give a good indication of the pH of the media. You need to core sample if you want to accurately establish the pH of coco.

That said, coco, watered daily with a consistent strength of nutrients, maintains a pH close to that of the original solution. For simplicity I pay the extra and use Canna, but not the whole line, just A+B and PK 13/14. I use one home made extra which is basically 1:1:1 seaweed, water and fermented molasses, sparingly during veg and regularly during flowering. It's also good for watering old coco that is up for recycling... helps breakdown the old roots.

The OP asked about pots... I like pots that have the whole bottom perforated rather than one that just have drain holes around the edge. I've managed to (mainly) scavenge a collection of pots that I use just for ganja. I tend to work with clones, if they are going to veg outdoors they end up in the big tubs, like the skunk clone pictured. If not, they flower in the 9L (2.4Gal).

I wont be going back to soil anytime soon.