herniated disc !!!help!!!

it is a pain in the ass trying to find out anything relevant from the internet without having to buy this or subscribe to that, so i'm calling on the openness of these forums and the experience of those out there who don't mind sharing their experience with others who have similar conditions.

anyone out there with chronic back pain, bulging or herniated discs, or spinal stenosis. i'm curious about what kind of treatments have been effective at relieving the most severe back or neck pain. i've had chronic back and neck pain for as long as i can remember. i'm a firm believer of chiropractors, as that has been my most effective treatment over the years. however, recently i have developed a pain in my neck and shoulder combined with fairly severe shooting numbness down my arm, that my chiropractor has had almost no success in alleviating the symptoms. that being said, i have not as yet seen a m.d., although i do have an appointment set up at the end of the month. i work out of town and i want to wait until i can see a doc close to home. i'm having my chiropractor here set me up with an MRI so that i will know definitively what the cause is and i will be prepared when i see the doc at home.

i've been trying to research back pain, and i've come up with three possibilities of what my problems is, all with pretty much the same symptoms. bulging disc, herniated disc, or spinal stenosis(bone spurs). the research also points to the fact that most of the pain is not the nerves themselves, but the muscles of the back being unable to relax and muscle spasms. (this pretty much describes my situation.) i'm aware that there is potential nerve damage taking place and if the MRI reveals something serious enough to see a doc before i go home i will. but in the meantime does anyone have any successful methods for releiving these kinds of symptoms (don't have access to good cannabis at the moment), i'm at the point where i'll try anything because just about everything i do is painful. i just can't get these muscles to relax.

desperate for advice/knowledge......anyone?

^ I am no doctor, I would hope you are seeing a good one, but I've had back pain every since I twisted my back playing football in sixth grade. I finally went to one of the best back doc's in so cal as an adult and he showed me a bunch of exercises to do that stretch the back and neck muscles that really help me a lot.

You can probably find them on webmd or something but basically you get down on all fours and arch your body up as far as you can (kinda like a cat :D ) and then slowly arch the opposite direction, and and then twist right and left. I do this all the time in the morning and it really helps me but, like I said, I hope you are seeing a real doc about it in case its something more serious. good luck.

I have a herniated L5 and it causes shooting pains, dull pains, tingles. Stretching helps a lot but you have to do it on a regular basis.

I find it hard to believe that your chiropractor could not help you. However they are just like any other doctors there are good ones and not so good ones.

My chiropractor is a god he has helped me avoid surgery for the disk as well as a dislocated shoulder. He also believes in MJ is a good medicine. Unfortunately in Az they can not recommend it.

Which is funny on our books the law says that doctors can prescribe it. They did that deliberately in IMO when it was on the ballot so that the people could vote it in only to have it not apply because doctors can not prescribe an illegal drug. BASTARDS!!!

Hopefully this year they it will pass again with the correct verbiage.

I have a fusion in my lower back. My L4-L5 disc and my L5-S1 disc were both herniated after a fall off a step ladder in March 2005. I suffered with the injury for 18 months before it was finally fixed correctly.

BEFORE I got it fixed I lost all feeling in my left leg. Could not walk. Could not even bend over to put on my own socks and shoes. Could not get into a chair or bed without help and could not get out of a chair or bed without help. Could not even twist around enough to wipe my own backside.

3 surgeries later - I now have enough titanium and stainless steel in my lower back to build a small space capsule. The final surgery was in Sep. 2006. Thats the one that fixed me.

I tell you this, not because I'm making a recommendation for surgery. I am no doctor and I don't know the extent of your injuries. I tell you this, only to establish credibility. I've been in your shoes and I know how it feels - trust me when I tell you that.

During the time when my back was still screwed up - I had SEVERE stabbing pain in my left leg because the herniated discs were putting pressure on the S1 nerve root.

There is a drug that can be used to that that nerve pain. All the vicodin and percocet in the world will not stop that kind of pain. Those drugs don't work on nerves. They aren't the right kind of chemicals to work on the nerve endings that cause your pain.

You should ask your doctor about NEURONTIN. It works to stop the nerve pain.
Neurontin Information from Drugs.com

I took this drug for about 9 months BEFORE I was finally fixed. It works. The side effects are mild. It will make you tired. But if you fight the sleepiness for about 1/2 hr it will pass and you won't be tired anymore. The other side effect is joint pain. It made my knees, ankles, elbows etc hurt. Take a couple ibuprofen and you'll be fine.

Good luck.

Here's my back in October 2006. This is about 2 weeks after the final surgery.

thanks all for the responses i knew i could count on yall. i had my MRI done today so i will know for sure the cause of the problem tomorrow.

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I find it hard to believe that your chiropractor could not help you. However they are just like any other doctors there are good ones and not so good ones.

My chiropractor is a god he has helped me avoid surgery for the disk as well as a dislocated shoulder.

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i totally agree about good ones and bad ones. i won't see one a second time if they're no good. the two that i'm seeing (here where i'm working and at home) are both worth their weight in bud. but like i said most of the pain is from overworked muscles(caused by the pinched nerves i know) that i just can't get to relax EVER. mj helps take some of the edge off of it, but i've only been able to get schwag lately. i don't have a mmj card though i hope to get one soon. meanwhile i just keep going to the chiropractor and smoking what i can when i can. also been doing a short morning and evening yoga routine for stretching, and it does help with my overall spinal health, but nothing i do seems to help relieve the tension and pain in my neck and shoulder. my right arm goes numb and tingling frequently and every time i lay down for sure. makes sleeping something dreaded and painful.


the advice so far here has been helpful, all the knowledge i can possess when i do walk into the docs office will (i hope) put me that much closer to recovery. so if there is any more suggestions, advice, or experience out there, please share.

extremely grateful to those who are willing to help others

its the way everyone should be. sad that it's not true though.

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Originally Posted by personified

...My chiropractor is a god he has helped me avoid surgery for the disk as well as a dislocated shoulder. He also believes in MJ is a good medicine. Unfortunately in Az they can not recommend it.

Which is funny on our books the law says that doctors can prescribe it. They did that deliberately in IMO when it was on the ballot so that the people could vote it in only to have it not apply because doctors can not prescribe an illegal drug. BASTARDS!!!

Hopefully this year they it will pass again with the correct verbiage.

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that is interesting, I've always wondered what happened in AZ. I remember the voters passed a mmj prop in '96, the same year as CA's prop 215, but I never knew why it was not put into law. So, your saying that the language in the prop that year said prescribe instead of recommend and that is how they blocked it? sneaky bastards, indeed. :jointsmile:

great news that it might be finally be corrected this year. good luck. This map needs a dark green AZ to reflect the will of the voters. :greenthumb:

I have a bulged disk in my back after a slip and fall. I had a rhizotomy (I think that is how it is spelled) and it really helped with the pain. That is where they go in and deaden the nerve endings. It last about 1yr but it is totally worth it too me.

Hope this helps!

This will be a long post.

Spinal stenosis is narrowing of the spinal canal around the spinal cord....just to clear that up. A bone spur is an osteophyte. A slipped disc is a lay term. Ruptured disc is valid and this means the structure has leaked and lost it's ability to cushion the joint....and more importantly it narrows the space where the nerve roots come out and generally that is exquisitely painful. There is no worse pain in my mind, and I have had kidney stones and heart attack.

I had to have my neck fused twice, and have 3 narrowed discs along with spinal stenoses.

First get rid of the chiropractor until you can be sure he will not cause nerve damage....I have permanent damage thanks to one. MRI is great.

Neurontin is bad, dangerous stuff and I would do anything to stay off that.

Go to an ER and get some Flexeril, or Skelaxin or some other muscle relaxant until you can get some good weed. If you can tolerate NSAIDS like ibuprofen, take that but be positive to take it with food or you will ruin your stomach. Can you chiropractor write for either of those drugs?

HOT SOAKS work to increase blood flow and decrease inflammation which in turn will decrease spasms.

DUDE I do feel for ya. Been there, lived that. Don't let it kill ya man, keep the chin up. I woke up from surgery and hurt less than before, and it sounds like you are going to need some surgery.

Best of luck

here is what my MRI report say:

HISTORY: patient has neck pain radiating into both shoulders with weakness in the right arm.

TECHNIQUE: sagittal and axial images are obtained using T1,T2 sequencce. sagittal STIR images are obtained. 83 images are submitted.

FINDINGS: marrow signal intensity and height of vertebral bodies show no evidence of fracture, tumor,metastatic disease or bone contusion. there is a reversal of the normal lordotic curvature.

craniocervical junction, cervicothoracic junction, and cervical spinal cord show no evidence of space occupying lesion, edema or mass effect. size, configuration, signal intensities and location are normal

DISC SPACES

C2-C3, C3-C4, C4-C5 and C7-T1 show no evidence of disc bulge, disc herniation, spinal stenosis, or encroachment of the exiting nerve root or neural foramina.

C5-C6: there is a 3mm posterocentral disc bulge indenting the ventral thecal sac. there is bilateral uncovertebral hypertrophic changes. there is mild bilateral central spinal stenosis, right more than left.

C6-C7: there is no evidence of disc bulge, disc herniation, spinal stenosis, or encroachment of the exiting nerve root or neural foramina.

IMPRESSION:

1. C5-C6: there is a 3mm posterocentral disc bulge indenting the ventral thecal sac. there is bilateral uncovertebral hypertrophic changes. there is mild bilateral central spinal stenosis, right more than left.


now i don't have ant kind of medical education and i'm not trying to call BS on anyone here but my chiropractor explained these results to me. this is what i got from his explanation. (trying to put my laymen's understanding to work here, may not be 100% accurate).

"there is a 3mm posterocentral disc bulge indenting the ventral thecal sac"

i interpret this to mean that the disc is bulging in the rear of the spinal column toward the spinal cord pressing against the fluid filled sac that contains the spinal cord.

"there is bilateral uncovertebral hypertrophic changes"

i don't understand this statement

"there is mild bilateral central spinal stenosis, right more than left"

this was explained to me as a narrowing of the canal of the nerve exiting the spinal column(not a narrowing of the spinal canal itself).


chiropractor thinks that my best course of treatment is spinal decompression, and that i might also want to get a cortizone/steroid shot to help relieve some of the muscle tension, but that i'm not necesarily a surgical candidate yet.

anyone have an opinion on this?

i have a doctor appointment on the 24th when i go home, but i'm not sure if i should wait that long or that i even can wait that long.

i'm sure most would agree with me that my MRI results could have been alot worse, but the fact that the results are not catastrophic doesn't do anything for my pain.

these responses are helping me to develop questions to ask my doctor when i do see him, so please if there is any more input out there lets have it.

much appreciated

Hi skydivr. I empathise with you. I suffer extreme nerve pain from a motocross injury I had in 1983 where I broke my neck in two places and tore the brachial nerve feeding my right arm. As a result, I had vertebraes C4,C5 and C6 fused together and was left with partial paralysis in my right arm. After being on pharmacutical medicines for a few years (codidramol, dimorph diclofenac tablets etc..) I discovered, thanks to a dutch doctor I met in a pub here in England, that some strains of Marijuana reduce the pain to a tolerable level and have very few side effects compared to what my doctor was prescribing for me. Having cervical spine fusion, it is not possible for me to see a chiropractor - the sprecialists have warned me against the dangers, so I would recommend that you try out a few different strains to find what works best for you. Note, some strains have no effect for relieving my pain, others are amazing! Strains that work for me include AK47, Jack Herrer, Haze (all haze varieties seem to work), Afghani #1, Northern Lights #5, Lollipop, Mango, Blue Cheese. Only problem is getting hold of medical grade.... Good luck with this! :)

It seems like pretty good news that the stenosis is mild and you only have bulging at one level.
Lay off any horseplay or sports that agraviate the injury and do whatever you can to lose weight and get your core muscles in good shape.

I'm fused from L2-S1 and feel way better than before the surgery.

My medical training is limited to Paramedic and medical transcriptionist.

I still say get rid of the chiropractor, especially with the MRI results. ...That is how I ended up with only 15% function in one arm.

No, you do not have a surgical issue as yet. My suggestion is physical therapy, weight loss if needed, and get referred to a pain specialist for injections. They will demand all that anyway before surgery, if it is ever necessary.

Non-steriodal anti-inflammatories on a stomach with food. As doc for dose.

You have the early version of what ruined my career. Bummer man, as that kind of pain isn't helped by anything when it gets bad enough, no even weed. Worst pain I have ever experienced, worse than kidney stone or heart attack, that is for sure.

Oh, yeah, bulging is not herniated. When there is loss of disc height/space there is herniaiton

I had the eperdural injections. I cant spell. they didn't work for shit and cost 12,000 dollars a pop. Good luck, it's open game until your MRI. also, you might want to go see a neurologist for a check up for the nerves.

I feel for you and can relate. I have several herniated discs in my lumbar area with at least one ruptured disc. I can't find a position to be comfortable in even for sleep.

I have been prescribed tramadol, flexeril, soma, hydrocodone, darvocet, and several others. I walk with a cane, can't put on my own socks or shoes, and stepping off off a curb is painful. Feels like I have a sword shoved up my ass and everytime I move it goes in deeper, even a side to side movement is excrutiating.

Smoking weed is the one thing that helps with the pain and the depression that this has also set in as a result. It hardf to even get my wife to understand how painful this is and to understand that I am fucking hurting.

Surgery is looking more and more like the only solution and I am not happy about the VA cutting on me, these fuckers can't even get my appointments right.

The stronger strains are helpful, mostly indica based hybrids. I'm expanding my grow after this next harvest, adding some different strains in addition to the WW.

I wish you the best, hope you find your solution.

G

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Originally Posted by Phunnyman

I can't find a position to be comfortable in even for sleep.
....

It hardf to even get my wife to understand how painful this is and to understand that I am fucking hurting.


G

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Your wife will never understand so stop expecting her to. Nobody will understand unless they have had this type of pain. The endless, deep, gripping, engulfing pain. The kind of pain that nothing works on except surgery.

I have had the surgery twice and injections too. Surgery worked both times and got the pain down to where I could manage it with cannabis.

I feel for your pain. Oh I do understand........

i'm so there with all of you...i got a divorce because i wanted to get stem cell treatment using cells taken from a terminated pregnancy...before my spinal cord injury i could never have imagined the amount of pain i put myself through just to have a life....basically she was one of those bible thumpers and everything had to fit based on what the book or her pastor interpreted from the book to throw at me why i shoudn't go to Chinas for treaqtment as there were "no blessings" in this treatment...well the first one basically gave me my life back so that i could begin to do a few things like having a buddy take me duck hunting for the first time since my injury and being able to go the gym and workout getting strong enough to do more and gain more independence from relying on others for help...i still suffer with pain i can just push myself to a farther point than i could before...they were all wrong on several accounts...happier w/o the nag and i got great results from the first procedure and in the process here in China again gettting results already from the injections of cells into my spinal cord....so who are these hypocrits to judge how quality of life should be attianed when they have no idea of the pain we are in!

I had a herniated disc (L4/L5) operated on some 7 years ago... The Neurosurgen is about the best in the south. 6 weeks after the surgery, I was bacdk to work full on with no restrictions. :thumbsup:(I am a heating and A/C contractor). I had not had any pain or problems until a couple of weeks ago when I did something I shouldn't have.:(
I went to my local chiropractor, and after the first adjustment, I was pain free, but felt a little "bruised", and after the second adjustment, I have been totally pain free. At night, I will take a couple of hits of Toxic Blue....this was specifically bred to be a pain relief strain, and works very well. In any case it turns out that my injury is the result of a combination of 30 year old injuries, and degenerative disc disease. The chiropractor has me on a 3 month program that is supposed to reverse the disc problem, as well as get me completely healed. I really hate to go to my GP, because all he seems to know is to prescribe more pills that just don't *DO* anything other than knock me on my a$$ and make me so I can't function.

Most strains that are really heavy on indica, when properly grown and harvest at the right time will work well for body pain relief.