Best Curled Leaf Tip Ever! Pic

Check it out... two plants bad, other OK... based on what I have read on all the forums, I believe I have underwatering. I have low humidity in the Bloom-Room with a ton of air movement sucking the moisture out of the girls.
(Ph going in is always 6.4, GH nutes at 1/2 strength, 400HPS/MH, Sunshine #4 soil, pics of NYCD and TW at 1 week in flower)

The tips aren't so much burned as just full curled... some tips look more like heat burn. I read somewhere this can happen when the plant is too dry.

Here's the thing... EVERYBODY seems to have a different opinion in every "Newbie" forum out there. So what the hell do you do when so many conflicting diagnosis exist and your plants look like every pic out there?

I chose to flush... I figure they needed the water anyway and it can't hurt to give them a nice douching to rid any nute salts buildup. I hope I made the right choice.

Please, chime in anyone... I'd like to hear your opinions and suggestions.
Thanks!

I forgot to mention that I have been growing for only one year and switched from hydro to soil about 5 months ago... love soil!... but have been very paranoid about overwatering and I hope that the pics indicate as so... especially the big leaf pic.

So, lets hope I don't end up with drowned plants in the morning.
:thumbsup:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GodofGraphics

I forgot to mention that I have been growing for only one year and switched from hydro to soil about 5 months ago... love soil!... but have been very paranoid about overwatering and I hope that the pics indicate as so... especially the big leaf pic.

So, lets hope I don't end up with drowned plants in the morning.
:thumbsup:

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Don't get too paranoid about watering, If you give them a little too much, they'll bounce back. Make sure your lights are about a foot or maybe a little more above the canopy as well.

I believe flushing was the right thing to do.

good luck :thumbsup:

Thanks for the reply.... I'm hopin that's the ticket... like I've heard so many times before... "these plants want to grow just as much as we want them to". That pretty much sums it up. Thanks for the feedback.... but,
you never gave your input on the funky fan leaf... only 3 of them are like this, all the other big palms look much better, just have hook tips. So, what you think of the big palm leaf? Nute burn, deficiency or lack of water?

When they say "You can never give a plant too much water", does that mean you can never give a plant TOO much water? Or, you can NEVER give a plant too much water? It's one of those things. I'm still reading.
Doc Oc

if your worried about when to water...just stick your finger in the soil about 2 inches down and if you feel some moisture just wait anouther day to water but if you feel that she is bone dry then pore it to her...happy growing...:thumbsup:

The best way to get a valid diagnosis, is to fill-out the troubleshooting form. It might be a pain in the ass, but without all of your information, any diagnosis will be a guess. All the questions on the form are important in some way or another...so be as thorough as possible.

Just by looking at them...not overnuted and it's not heat stress. But that's as far as I'll go.

Once soil is dry enough, gently and carefully slip the rootball out and see what the roots look like. Should be healthy white roots. If browning and slimy, likely it's either overwatering causing root rot, or you are not letting the soil dry enough between waterings. If only a few white roots in a tangle of dry brown roots...likely underwatering.

Use the troubleshooting form to your advantage. :thumbsup:

What is your experience level? (first timer, novice, experienced...)
Been growing since April of 09

Your Equipment:
.1) Type and wattage of lights: 400 HPS/MH
.2) Distance from tops? 12" - 18"
.3) Reflector type? Bat Wing, open bulb
.4) Is there a consistent fresh air supply? Yes, 8" exhaust opening/intake with 12" furnace blower motor... outdoor fresh air intake to room
.5) Do you have an exhaust fan and a circulation fan? (see #4)
.6) What are the bulb wattages, kelvin ratings, and schedule? 400 watt - Kelvin MH=6,000 HPS=55,000 lumens? 12/12 Flower - 24/7 Veg

Your medium:
.7) Specific brand and type of soil, Sunshine #4, GH Flora 3 part for Veg and Bloom supplements: Cool bloom, Flourolicious, Cool Bloom liquid.
.8) Size of container: 5 & 7 gallon - depending on the plant size at time of repotting. Plants in question are in 7 gallon.
.9) Did you use: I cloned these myself with Rapid Rooter medium in a cloning dome (black tray with clear dome lid)

Your nutrients and water:
10) Source of water? (tap, bottled or filtered) What's it's ph before adjusting?
Well water - 7.8 out of tap - 6.4 after nute are added at full strength, then I add same amount of water at 6.4 to end up with 50% nute strength.
11) Method of checking water ph: Ph/temp/TDS pen
12) Method of adjusting water ph. PH down only.
13) Specific brand and N-P-K ratio for each bottle: GH Grow: 2-1-6 Micro: 5-0-1 Bloom: 0-5-4 FloraGrow: 1-.7 -.6 FloraBloom: 1-1-7 Kool Bloom liquid: 0-10-10 Have fed nutes once a week - one half gallon per plant with equal amount of water (to give me 1/2 strength nutes)
14) How often are you watering between feedings, and how much per watering?: I gallon of water per plant (1/2 nute water/1/2 water) and only watering once a week.
15) Any additives or tea's? NO
16) Are your ph levels stable, or do they fluctuate? Unknown... never done a run off test...
17) What is your ingoing water's ph? ...your runoff ph?: Ingowing was 7.8 for the plants first 2 months of these plants life - then realized my error and started ph'ing my water down to 6.4 (per GH recommendations) No idea on run off PH... never done it.
18) Do you foliar feed? NO

Your growroom:
19) Indoors or outdoors? Indoor
20) What size of closet, room or hut: Veg room open area 3'x6'x 8' ceiling
Bloom room enclosed - absolute light tight - sealed door - 3x6x8 with massive exhaust system for air movement and to keep heat down.
21) What are the temps and humidity levels while lights are on?: Running 2 400 HPS for Bloom Room - consistent 76 degrees wiht lights on... 65 for lows at night with lights off but fan on (to keep warm air moving through room) All my fricken heat from the house is getting sucked into the bloom room and out the wall.... AAAArrrrggggghhhh) Humidity is at best 20%... typically it's at 16% unless I water downn the room and leave a half-inch of water on the floor of the Bloom room... then humidity rises, but air movement is so huge that whatever moisture is in the air or in the plant is sucked outside. I really thought I was dealing with an underwatering/drying out issue? Hmmmm.
22) Have you seen signs of insects in the growroom?: Just wiped out Spider Mites with Azamax... 1 treatment - let sit on plants for 15 minutes, then washed. Second application 4 days later - applied azamax (good coverage, but not so heavy a coating) and left on plants, no rinse.... NO MITES!

Your strain:
23) What strain are you growing?: the plants in question are NYCD and Train Wreck... both indica/sativa blends?
24) From seeds or clones?: Originally clones from Dispensary, these two are clones from those clones. (after they were mature)
25) Is this an autoflower strain? Unknown


NOTES: They started showing signs of stress at about 2 months... like I said I had been feeding water with too high a ph (7.8) then about 2 weeks ago I started feeding with ph water at 6.4 and nutes at the same ph of 6.4

Tips started hooking about a week ago... perhaps my ph adjustment was too late in the game.

I did a major flush yesterday (twice the amount of water as the pot size). I flushed initiall with well water at 7.8. Ran it good through the pots. Took a bit to get enough water to soak into the soil. They were ALL dry.

Then, I ran twice the amount of water at 6.4 as a final flush to get all the higher ph water out of the soil. So, I really flushed with 4 times the amount of water as the pot size. WOW!. Hope that was OK to use the higher PH water initally for the flush.. then reflush with 6.4.

I use a soil moisture tester and have counted on it to tell me when the soil is dry... I let the soil meter register at half-way before I watered; not bone dry, but close. Watched for leaf wilt... then watered. They always perked up within a day after watering.

Again, dry conditions - Colorado mountains at 7,500 feet elevation. DRY! especially winter.

So now they still have the hooks as shown... but everybody else looks perky and happy... good color.

So, with all this info... what's your diagnosis doc.
Many thanks for all the help.

GodofGraphics


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Well, it's been over 24 hours since the big flush and it looks like new growth is still curling.... I suppose it will take a bit for the plant to fully recover?

Big fan leaves are looking bleek... discoloring and looking sad. Any ideas from anyone out there... I filled out the form... Hoping to get some feedback. Thanks

I personaly never water or flush with my 7.8 wellwater. 1/4 tsp phDown per gallon of water put's me at 6.8. To that, I add the nutrients. Too acidic or too alkaline can damage sensitive roots.

Consistent watering is more difficult with every jump in pot size.

When watering the larger containers, I find it especially important to use a slow-trickle type of watering. I add a quart, wait a minute. Add a quart, wait a minute. Keep doing this, till you get a slow trickle of runoff. I do this with every watering and every feeding.

With larger containers, you can get dry spots in the soil. Since I flush every month, I avoid that problem. (mostly, lol) Sometimes I'll have to gently 'squeeze' the pot after watering to destroy the 'rain channel' effect, where the water follows a set path to the botom of your drainage tray instead of absorbing into the medium. Don't crush your roots though.

Everything else looks ok to me. Old leaves are old news. How's the new growth looking?

Thanks Rusty for the reply.
Ya know, the two plants that have only been in bloom for a week have really bounced back in the new tops department. The old leaves yes, I guess they are old news. They're looking pretty pathetic... but new is good.

Question: How would you propose I add nutes. When I did hydro, I tracked everything anal-retentive style. With dirt, I gave that up and now wish I hadn't.

I've been adding nutes as I described in the T-Form but how SHOULD I do it?

I'm planning on tracking each strain and recording (with pics) the grow process and how it reacts to nutes. (lot of work) but what is your system? Should I add nutes once a week? Every two weeks?

I really need a good place to start and have not found anything anywhere with specifics on How Much nutes to add...

I need info like: Add 1 quart of full strength GH nutes for every 5 gallons of soil. Then add 3 more quarts of water per 5 gallon of soil to dispurse the nutes. Do this once every 10 days...

That's the type of info I really need right now and can't find it. I've searched but haven't found the right "question" I guess because search just comes up empty. Nute cycle? Nute add rate? Nute feeding schedule? Not finding it.
Can you give me a link or do you know the answer to feeding (like they do for hydro)

Any help you can provide on this would be great!
Many thanks for the feedback.. I didn't think anyone was going to reply to my T-Form... that is a bitch to complete, but very well thought out.
Later,
GOG

Honestly, I don't think it's that bad. You're going to get some leaves that get burned or curl under. The plants look pretty healthy from what I can see. Those big fan leaves on top can be trimmed away anyways. It will benefit the plant by giving it more light with it out of the way.

Now, if you get a few leaves looking like that...I would look into what nutes you are using and try to find the error there.

Just for comparisons sake....i have a similar set up and I water one gallon for 8 plants every 3 days....hope that helps. But yeah, you can usually feel the top 2 inches....if its damp, wait a day. If it's dry...give them some water.

Good luck man! :jointsmile:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GodofGraphics

Question: How would you propose I add nutes. When I did hydro, I tracked everything anal-retentive style. With dirt, I gave that up and now wish I hadn't.

I've been adding nutes as I described in the T-Form but how SHOULD I do it?

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Are you really using all 6 of the nutrients listed? That's two different 3-part series' isn't it? Make sure to use the series formulated for soil. I looked-up GH feeding schedule on thier website, and it's a mess compared to what I'm used to. (Fox Farms schedule) I'm guessing it's a weekly feeding schedule, but it wasn't overtly specific. (plus, I haven't had my coffee yet)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GodofGraphics

I'm planning on tracking each strain and recording (with pics) the grow process and how it reacts to nutes. (lot of work) but what is your system? Should I add nutes once a week? Every two weeks?

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I feed once a week in the winter, twice a week (but half-strength) during the summer. Same weekly nutrient total per manufacturers recommendations.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GodofGraphics

I really need a good place to start and have not found anything anywhere with specifics on How Much nutes to add...

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Never-ever add nutrients directly from the bottle. Always add to properly ph'd water.

On feeding day...I mix-up a 5 gallon batch of nutrient mix.
In my 3 gallon pots, I'll give a tad more than a quart of nutrient mix. 5 gallon pots...about a half gallon of nutrient mix...5 gallon bucket (7 or 8 dry gallons)...about 3 quarts.
Might be a tad more or a tad less, depending on the strain I'm working with at the time, the weather, (ambient heat and humidity)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GodofGraphics

I need info like: Add 1 quart of full strength GH nutes for every 5 gallons of soil. Then add 3 more quarts of water per 5 gallon of soil to dispurse the nutes. Do this once every 10 days... That's the type of info I really need right now and can't find it. I've searched but haven't found the right "question" I guess because search just comes up empty. Nute cycle? Nute add rate? Nute feeding schedule? Not finding it.
Can you give me a link or do you know the answer to feeding (like they do for hydro)

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Quantities listed on bottle are usually a weekly recommendation, added to a gallon of water prior to giving to the ladies. Start with a weekly schedule, and adjust quantity of nutrient mix you add to the pots, not the nutrient:water ratio. The ratio of nutrient solution to add to a gallon of water should remain very constant, and that should not be dicked-with till you know the product.
Feed your ladies once a week. Plain, ph'd water inbetween if necessary.
After you add the nutrient mixture, do not add more water to 'evenly disperse'. Soil is like a sponge, and will do that on it's own. It will also flush-out all the nutrients you just added. Never re-use runoff water.

one more thing, it looked like a ph flux reaction, with that said #4 rstarts getting acidic in the 3rd -4th month so i would monitor the runoff

Tiz one of the reasons I wait a couple of weeks into the flowering stage to transplant into the final containers. The buffering capacity fades as time goes by, and will cause the runoff ph drift. (That and the rootbound issues close to harvest time, ;))

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rusty Trichome

Tiz one of the reasons I wait a couple of weeks into the flowering stage to transplant into the final containers. The buffering capacity fades as time goes by, and will cause the runoff ph drift. (That and the rootbound issues close to harvest time, ;))

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That is what I think messed my ph up a bit was the buffer running out of the soil mix. I think I may worry less about stress of transplant during flower and use your method to avoid the buffer being used up. It is nice to read another's thread and find info that is perfect for what you wanted to know.

Frosted: did the rep I sent ya say "thumbsup" or did it show the smiley? (curious if the smiley's work there)

Yep! thanks

Rusty, to clarify my answers to feeding... and thanks very much for the reply... The nutes are all included in the Flora series... per GH factory rep who has been helping me with feeding. I mix nutes in water, then ph to 6.4 I had not been doing that up to a few weeks before I noticed problems... had been running 7.8 well water. Yikes.

I will definitely mix up my nutes at 1/2 strength now and apply all at once rather than a "nuted water then clear water" method I was using.

The plants look great now. New growth is looking normal since the flush. Waiting for plants to dry out before adding new nutes.

I am concerned about the comments about #4 getting acidic and you having to change soil after they are in flower? Can you expand on this?
Thanks
GOG

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GodofGraphics

Rusty, to clarify my answers to feeding... and thanks very much for the reply... The nutes are all included in the Flora series... per GH factory rep who has been helping me with feeding. I mix nutes in water, then ph to 6.4 I had not been doing that up to a few weeks before I noticed problems... had been running 7.8 well water. Yikes.

I will definitely mix up my nutes at 1/2 strength now and apply all at once rather than a "nuted water then clear water" method I was using.

The plants look great now. New growth is looking normal since the flush. Waiting for plants to dry out before adding new nutes.

I am concerned about the comments about #4 getting acidic and you having to change soil after they are in flower? Can you expand on this?
Thanks
GOG

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Ive gotten the same hooked tips numerous times, and what i do to correct is flush them. How ever, I found this thread because i was looking for others experiences with hooked tips and im always loking for more info.

i know this is a OLD POST BUT THATS CLASSIC WINDBURN