Good, simple organic nutrient regime in soil for beginner?!

Hey all,

I'm getting ready to buy my nutes for the first time. I'm thinking I want to go organic or mostly organic (Fox Farm). My main goal is to get something simple... I don't want to get like 4-5 bottles of crap to mix and have to mix everything individually. This is why I'm not mixing my own. I want a minimum number of bottles (1-3 maybe) and a very easy routine... I want a small number of bottles that contain ALL micro/macro nutrients so I don't have to worry about individual deficiencies. I don't have an EC/pH meter, so I don't want something that's going to be very difficult to mix correctly either. I will have pH test strips (hopefully some more accurate ones).

So ANY help would be much appreciated! Here's what I've been looking into so far:

-Botanicare Pureblend Pro
-Earthjuice (I've heard I need some significant soil amendments with this incl. potash and other stuff)
-Humboldt Nutrients (Looking at Master A/Master B/Micro OR Grow/Bloom/Micro OR Oneness)
-Fox Farm nutes (probably Tiger Bloom and an additive)

My main selection criteria is going to be 1]Nute regime that provides best impact on YIELD & QUALITY, 2]Simplicity (mimimum number of different products), 3] Price, and 4]Lack of additional amendments required (Pretty much in that order)

Additional info: I'm using Fox Farm Ocean Forest with maybe 10-15% perlite. I'm also transplanting a few times, so with the FFOF and fresh soil I don't think I'll be adding any nutes until flowering phase. So really, all I'm going to need is flowering nutes. I may need a small amount of grow nutes if I decide to veg a little longer.

Any advice would be much appreciated or just share what you've used and had success with!! Peace, LP:rastasmoke:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lampost

Hey all,

I'm getting ready to buy my nutes for the first time. I'm thinking I want to go organic or mostly organic (Fox Farm). My main goal is to get something simple... I don't want to get like 4-5 bottles of crap to mix and have to mix everything individually. This is why I'm not mixing my own. I want a minimum number of bottles (1-3 maybe) and a very easy routine... I want a small number of bottles that contain ALL micro/macro nutrients so I don't have to worry about individual deficiencies. I don't have an EC/pH meter, so I don't want something that's going to be very difficult to mix correctly either. I will have pH test strips (hopefully some more accurate ones).

So ANY help would be much appreciated! Here's what I've been looking into so far:

-Botanicare Pureblend Pro
-Earthjuice (I've heard I need some significant soil amendments with this incl. potash and other stuff)
-Humboldt Nutrients (Looking at Master A/Master B/Micro OR Grow/Bloom/Micro OR Oneness)
-Fox Farm nutes (probably Tiger Bloom and an additive)

My main selection criteria is going to be 1]Nute regime that provides best impact on YIELD & QUALITY, 2]Simplicity (mimimum number of different products), 3] Price, and 4]Lack of additional amendments required (Pretty much in that order)

Additional info: I'm using Fox Farm Ocean Forest with maybe 10-15% perlite. I'm also transplanting a few times, so with the FFOF and fresh soil I don't think I'll be adding any nutes until flowering phase. So really, all I'm going to need is flowering nutes. I may need a small amount of grow nutes if I decide to veg a little longer.

Any advice would be much appreciated or just share what you've used and had success with!! Peace, LP:rastasmoke:

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Advanced nutrients is your ticket.:thumbsup: google them to find what you would like to use.;) Hightimes magazine had an article of a guy in Wa. State whom grows 8-12 footers using advanced nutes only. Washingtons only MMJ site has his plants and exactly how he does it, his mo is k9hohriver. Take a look it's impressive...:pimp:

ya got me there bro..
i dont think that organics.. by design, are simple..
i currently have neptunes harvest but i think its local and idk how good it is..
will find out in a few weeks i guess.. only 2 bottles though. but i see deficiencies that i am working on dealing with.. :cool:

~MG a.k.a. le Maine développé

forget about fox farms if you want to go organic. tiger bloom is not organic. the only thing that they have that's organic in the liquid ferts line is the big bloom. their nutes (like mosts) are designed to work in a system. the big bloom is the catalyst for the tiger bloom and grow big. you will have to mix nutes every week, and the mix changes throghtout the grow.

go with something like biobizz. there are three bottles, biogrow, biobloom and topmaxx. all of them are OMRI listed. i've seen the results and they are pretty amazing.

i don't know much about advanced besides the fact that they like to talk a lot and and pricey.

good luck!


-shake

Aurora innovations has a line of organics. Its the roots organics buddha grow & bloom. Not to hard to use 2 seperate nutes and I believe they have an additive to use while blooming.Good luck.:thumbsup:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lampost

Hey all,

I'm getting ready to buy my nutes for the first time. I'm thinking I want to go organic or mostly organic (Fox Farm). My main goal is to get something simple... I don't want to get like 4-5 bottles of crap to mix and have to mix everything individually. This is why I'm not mixing my own. I want a minimum number of bottles (1-3 maybe) and a very easy routine... I want a small number of bottles that contain ALL micro/macro nutrients so I don't have to worry about individual deficiencies. I don't have an EC/pH meter, so I don't want something that's going to be very difficult to mix correctly either. I will have pH test strips (hopefully some more accurate ones).

So ANY help would be much appreciated! Here's what I've been looking into so far:

-Botanicare Pureblend Pro
-Earthjuice (I've heard I need some significant soil amendments with this incl. potash and other stuff)
-Humboldt Nutrients (Looking at Master A/Master B/Micro OR Grow/Bloom/Micro OR Oneness)
-Fox Farm nutes (probably Tiger Bloom and an additive)

My main selection criteria is going to be 1]Nute regime that provides best impact on YIELD & QUALITY, 2]Simplicity (mimimum number of different products), 3] Price, and 4]Lack of additional amendments required (Pretty much in that order)

Additional info: I'm using Fox Farm Ocean Forest with maybe 10-15% perlite. I'm also transplanting a few times, so with the FFOF and fresh soil I don't think I'll be adding any nutes until flowering phase. So really, all I'm going to need is flowering nutes. I may need a small amount of grow nutes if I decide to veg a little longer.

Any advice would be much appreciated or just share what you've used and had success with!! Peace, LP:rastasmoke:

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I used Age Old Grow and Bloom supplemented with CalMag (for micros), and it worked ok as far as I can tell. You can see for yourself in this forum. Everyone I've told what I was using looks at me like I'm nuts, so maybe my grow would've been better with something else. Who knows, I have nothing to compare it to. I think I'm satisfied depending on how my yield ends up. They certainly were simple and cheap.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by senorx12562

I used Age Old Grow and Bloom supplemented with CalMag (for micros), and it worked ok as far as I can tell. You can see for yourself in this forum. Everyone I've told what I was using looks at me like I'm nuts, so maybe my grow would've been better with something else. Who knows, I have nothing to compare it to. I think I'm satisfied depending on how my yield ends up. They certainly were simple and cheap.

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Cool. So Calmag supplies all the micro/trace nutrients?! I did want a good micro nutrient solution to avoid defiencies.

I'm not insisting that the nutes are organic, but it would be nice if there is a simple way to do it. I've also heard there's less a problem with salts when you use organics.

So, ultimately these are all very similar as far as I'm concerned. I'm thinking I might go with Humboldt Nutrients because I can get everything in 3 bottles. I will check into Advanced Nutrients more, but I think they're going to be overpriced and more complicated than what I need.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by headshake

go with something like biobizz. there are three bottles, biogrow, biobloom and topmaxx. all of them are OMRI listed. i've seen the results and they are pretty amazing.

-shake

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biobloom is not omri listed. bioGrow is but the bloom is not. if you want to go organic with great results go with Humboldt nutrients natural line. Very good organic stuff. Not to mention that the yields are on par with non organic fertilizers.

Abyss

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Originally Posted by Abyss

biobloom is not omri listed. bioGrow is but the bloom is not. if you want to go organic with great results go with Humboldt nutrients natural line. Very good organic stuff. Not to mention that the yields are on par with non organic fertilizers.

Abyss

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the entire line of biobizz is OMRI listed if i'm not mistaken. at least it says as much on their information. i don't have the bottles in front of me at the moment.


-shake

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Abyss

biobloom is not omri listed. bioGrow is but the bloom is not. if you want to go organic with great results go with Humboldt nutrients natural line. Very good organic stuff. Not to mention that the yields are on par with non organic fertilizers.

Abyss

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Awesome, this is what I was thinking about... it'll be cheap too because I can get small 16oz bottles I think.

So the organic line is Grow Natural, Bloom Natural, and Deuce Deuce, correct? Does that Deuce Deuce contain ALL the micro nutrients I need so these 3 bottles will cover all the requirements? I might also get the bloom additive (Big up powder) and the microzyme enzyme deal and feed mollases.

Anyone have experience with Humboldt nutrients and a similar regime?

from what i can see great! but expensive too :(
gotta xpect the two together i suppose

~MG a.k.a. le Maine développé

lampost. i would be careful with the humboldt organics. i've heard that they are super-concentrated (states this on their webiste as well) and can wreak some havoc. i have no experience with them myself.....not to mention they don't seem to be certified by any organization.

abyss, you are correct about the biobloom as far as i can see. i'm still looking for some more info though.


-shake

Thanks I will definitely heed the warning and start half-strength. I've been hearing a lot that the QC sucks and isn't very consistent... so you can get an extra hot batch!

the weird thing is that organics shouldn't run "super hot". you shouldn't (for the most part) be able to nute burn your plants with organics. so i don't understand the need for a "super concentrated" organic nute.....that's not certified.

to each is own. good luck and keep us posted.


-shake

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Originally Posted by headshake

the weird thing is that organics shouldn't run "super hot". you shouldn't (for the most part) be able to nute burn your plants with organics. so i don't understand the need for a "super concentrated" organic nute.....that's not certified.

to each is own. good luck and keep us posted.


-shake

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Will do. I'm going to start a grow log soon. I need to because I'm starting to make way too many threads with all of my questions!

i second headshake on the bio bizz line its all i've ever used.
its IS all organic but i dont use the topmaxx
i use budswel instead its not certified but its been around forever and works wonders. also to save headaches you should use distilled or ro water, in which case you'll need cal-mag plus to take car of all you trace nutes.
i usually use a few other additives like nitrozime but you should do fine without it. i mix them similar to gh's flora line feeding schedule. keep in mind that not all strains like the same levels of nutes at certain times.if you decide to go with biobizz, i'd be happy to post my feeding schedule.
thats just my 2 cents. good luck!

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Originally Posted by wman44

i second headshake on the bio bizz line its all i've ever used.
its IS all organic but i dont use the topmaxx
i use budswel instead its not certified but its been around forever and works wonders. also to save headaches you should use distilled or ro water, in which case you'll need cal-mag plus to take car of all you trace nutes.
i usually use a few other additives like nitrozime but you should do fine without it. i mix them similar to gh's flora line feeding schedule. keep in mind that not all strains like the same levels of nutes at certain times.if you decide to go with biobizz, i'd be happy to post my feeding schedule.
thats just my 2 cents. good luck!

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Hey thanks I'll check into BioBizz. Can you just post up the products you use? I don't need a feeding schedule right now... just want to do a cost comparison.

i just got an email back from biobizz. they said they are just waiting on the 2010 certs from OMRI. the bloom IS (or will be) OMRI certified. they just can't put it on the bottle for now. at least that's what i'm told.

-shake

ive been using sugarpeak one part its very simple and it contains the same guanos and molasses that i make teas out of when im not lazy. with excellent results in veg anyway. at the start of flower i used ff beastie a couple times to ensure my normal weight. oh but they reccomend catalyst i dont use it i use karma

I use Maxsea, it's a seaweed based organic, it's pretty forgiving if you overmix, and it comes in all purpose for veg, and bloom. It's moderately priced, simple, and it just plain works.

Thanks guys... more stuff to check out - maxsea and sugarpeak.

I'm pretty sure I'm going to go with Humboldt Nutrients 3-part organic line at this point, but I still have a few days to research before I need to start hitting 'em with some grow nutes... appreciate all the suggestions!

Well I guess it isn't 'organic' but works for me:
http://boards.cannabis.com/basic-gro...ertilizer.html
There are a couple pictures of stuff I grew on a simple regime of Fox Farm Ocean Forest, and 16-16-16 lawn fert.

I find that all the expensive fancy stuff makes little difference and actually can cause many different problems.

My transplant process is also part of this. No ferts at all until they go to the final 3 gallon pot. Put 1/2 teaspoon of the fert in the bottom of the pot, then new Fox Farm to cover. Let grow a week in veg, then add 1/2 tablespoon fert to the top of the soil and send to the flower room. Water as needed.

I am sick and tired of burning plants with supposed good ferts. I suppose in a controlled hydro grow they are with out doubt necessary, but in good Fox Farm you really do not need much, if any.

You want to grow organic ??? Buying a bottle saying its organic is not organic. Get some bone, blood, and kelp meal. Some mexican batshit and Peruvian seabird guano. Oh yes and earthworm castings and molasses.

If your interested in that kind of organic, let me know I'll post some recipes and if you go with bottled nutes post your results, i wanna see!

Good Luck man

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Originally Posted by dagshet

You want to grow organic ??? Buying a bottle saying its organic is not organic. Get some bone, blood, and kelp meal. Some mexican batshit and Peruvian seabird guano. Oh yes and earthworm castings and molasses.

If your interested in that kind of organic, let me know I'll post some recipes and if you go with bottled nutes post your results, i wanna see!

Good Luck man

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what's the problem with the work being done for you and it packaged up in a nifty little bottle? i understand the whole "organic" attitude and whatnot, but some of us don't have time for all of that at the moment.

biobizz is derived from molasses and sea kelp, same as you recommend. and I'VE SEEN firsthand what it can do. check out this log:

http://boards.cannabis.com/grow-log/...w-project.html

done strictly with biobizz.

OMRI is a pretty good cert to have.


-shake

Quote:

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Originally Posted by headshake

what's the problem with the work being done for you and it packaged up in a nifty little bottle? i understand the whole "organic" attitude and whatnot, but some of us don't have time for all of that at the moment.

biobizz is derived from molasses and sea kelp, same as you recommend. and I'VE SEEN firsthand what it can do. check out this log:

http://boards.cannabis.com/grow-log/...w-project.html

done strictly with biobizz.

OMRI is a pretty good cert to have.


-shake

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Organics is a wide spectrum of techniques, but if time is your concern you can mix what I have listed and all you do is water all the way to harvest. If that isn't time saving vs mixing your solutions and checking ph. Also all ingredients listed are way cheaper than bottled products, not side by side price comparison but in how long it will last you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dagshet

Organics is a wide spectrum of techniques, but if time is your concern you can mix what I have listed and all you do is water all the way to harvest. If that isn't time saving vs mixing your solutions and checking ph. Also all ingredients listed are way cheaper than bottled products, not side by side price comparison but in how long it will last you.

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I have read that blood and bone meal have their own potential problems. Cervantes, I think. Not true?

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Originally Posted by senorx12562

I have read that blood and bone meal have their own potential problems. Cervantes, I think. Not true?

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If you speaking of WHORE HEY, I have no idea, never read his books. I don't believe bone and blood have problems as far as nutrition is concerned , preparing on the other hand, takes time if thats a problem for you.

You'll never overfeed with bone and blood vs say... Pure blend pro, an organic bottled nute. Not that PBP is bad, I've heard rave reviews.

lets see the recipes. ive been using some new highly soluble guanos, nice.

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Originally Posted by phatsesh101

lets see the recipes. ive been using some new highly soluble guanos, nice.

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This is by no way any of my own work. I started off this and have never gone wrong. From what I understand it is from lavender cowboy from OG days.

LC Mix:

3 parts Pro-Mix / Sunshine Mix / FFOF / Roots Organics
1 Part Perlite
1 Part EWC

to that add

2 tbs dolomite lime / gallon of mix
2 tbs bone meal / gallon of mix
1 tbs blood meal / gallon of mix
1 tbs kelp meal / gallon of mix

wet the mix with water and keep moist for 2 weeks, occasionally stir the mix up to promote air throughout. This allows the bone to start breaking down and bacteria get their levels up. veg or flower in this mix and water with plain water till harvest.

Senorx - Make tea with the water soluble guano, make sure its high P and not mexican batshit cuz its high in N not P.

Heres the recipe for that:

2tbs Guano
1/2 cup EWC
1 tsp Kelp
1 tbs Molasses
1 Gallon h20

if you can bubble then bubble. if not pour from bucket to bucket couple times and water. water with this from week 3 on in flowering for every watering and cut off last two weeks.

Make sure you know how to read your plant!!! this is the more important thing, all these nutes and blahblbhalbah but if you can't tell if that girl needs more or needs less its pointless.

Thats the basics. Like i said its not my work, I did it and it was dope!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dagshet

Organics is a wide spectrum of techniques, but if time is your concern you can mix what I have listed and all you do is water all the way to harvest. If that isn't time saving vs mixing your solutions and checking ph. Also all ingredients listed are way cheaper than bottled products, not side by side price comparison but in how long it will last you.

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i gotcha dagshet! i plan on getting more and more into the organic "lifestyle" so to speak. taking it all in and getting in touch with the philosophical side of things definitely.

-shake

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dagshet

This is by no way any of my own work. I started off this and have never gone wrong. From what I understand it is from lavender cowboy from OG days.

LC Mix:

3 parts Pro-Mix / Sunshine Mix / FFOF / Roots Organics
1 Part Perlite
1 Part EWC

to that add

2 tbs dolomite lime / gallon of mix
2 tbs bone meal / gallon of mix
1 tbs blood meal / gallon of mix
1 tbs kelp meal / gallon of mix

wet the mix with water and keep moist for 2 weeks, occasionally stir the mix up to promote air throughout. This allows the bone to start breaking down and bacteria get their levels up. veg or flower in this mix and water with plain water till harvest.

Senorx - Make tea with the water soluble guano, make sure its high P and not mexican batshit cuz its high in N not P.

Heres the recipe for that:

2tbs Guano
1/2 cup EWC
1 tsp Kelp
1 tbs Molasses
1 Gallon h20

if you can bubble then bubble. if not pour from bucket to bucket couple times and water. water with this from week 3 on in flowering for every watering and cut off last two weeks.

Make sure you know how to read your plant!!! this is the more important thing, all these nutes and blahblbhalbah but if you can't tell if that girl needs more or needs less its pointless.

Thats the basics. Like i said its not my work, I did it and it was dope!

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That sounds pretty sweet actually. TRUE organics no doubt. I may check into that tea. That's all you need? I always thought these ingredients were hard to get, but I realized my hydro shop carries them all.

you should be able to find those ingredients at home depot or lowes, possibly walmart.

good growing!


-shake

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dagshet

If you speaking of WHORE HEY, I have no idea, never read his books. I don't believe bone and blood have problems as far as nutrition is concerned , preparing on the other hand, takes time if thats a problem for you.

You'll never overfeed with bone and blood vs say... Pure blend pro, an organic bottled nute. Not that PBP is bad, I've heard rave reviews.

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Actually, I was talking about the possibility of pathogens being present, not that it doesn't work.

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Originally Posted by senorx12562

Actually, I was talking about the possibility of pathogens being present, not that it doesn't work.

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I see where your coming from, if your follow the recipe you create your teaming herd of bacteria, good for the soil which in turn is good for roots, thus the plant and yeah. Your herd overwhelms the possible bad herd and your roots become more resistive to attack this way as well.

-shake - I take back the organic goodness can't come from a bottle, from one to another someone tells me that Neptunes Harvest is good stuff. I'm looking at their website and looking at all their products... I've heard of batches of OG Kush, called OG OG Kush as in Ocean grown and I can see why now. All neptunes stuff is from the sea and the OG OG i had was really 'effin nice.

Our jobs here are to find all the different one ways to growing the dank and not to pigeon hole ourselves in one set way. Try it out and report back. I know blood, bone, kelp, and guano is awesome, but I want to try this neptune stuff soon.

neptunes harvest works.. one bottle with good soil and your mint..
but you are gonna need to find some cal mag to give em.. its not made for pot so you gotta make it good..
just my observations after using the stuff for a indoor grow.. have used it outdoors and not noticed the lack of cal mag.. but then the plants are not next to me all the time..
~MG

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dagshet

I see where your coming from, if your follow the recipe you create your teaming herd of bacteria, good for the soil which in turn is good for roots, thus the plant and yeah. Your herd overwhelms the possible bad herd and your roots become more resistive to attack this way as well.

-shake - I take back the organic goodness can't come from a bottle, from one to another someone tells me that Neptunes Harvest is good stuff. I'm looking at their website and looking at all their products... I've heard of batches of OG Kush, called OG OG Kush as in Ocean grown and I can see why now. All neptunes stuff is from the sea and the OG OG i had was really 'effin nice.

Our jobs here are to find all the different one ways to growing the dank and not to pigeon hole ourselves in one set way. Try it out and report back. I know blood, bone, kelp, and guano is awesome, but I want to try this neptune stuff soon.

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i hear ya loud and clear my friend. if we aren't pushing the envelope then what are we doing this for!?

-shake

I'll admit right now that I haven't used these, but I'm a big supporter of Advanced Nutrients, so I feel good recommending their organics. :thumbsup:

The few people I know who like to do the organic thing (a bit too much work for me) seem to really like Iguana Juice and the other AN organics. I'm not really sure what they all are. I'm sure Professor Google can help.

I think it's pretty right on that organics are going to be a little trickier. I mean, I applaud the effort - much better grow in the end. Healthier smoke for MMJ patients especially. :jointsmile:

You have to watch out though for the organics going bad on you if you don't use a lot. Store them as the bottle directs to make sure they last.

Good luck with your grow - it'll be fun to find out what happens next. :hippy:

I've done a few runs with organic and imho it's not really worth it, but everyone has different views and you might prefer it.

Whatever the case, the way you approach it depends on a lot of different variables. When you say you're in "soil" that can mean different things. With commercial products like Advanced Nutrients' organic line they don't assume you're starting with a premium organic soil with a healthy, thriving herd of micro-organisms making up the ideal "soil web". So they have their stuff pre-processed and broken down so that it works in hydroponics, soil-less mixes, and so on. That's the way I prefer it because it gives me more control over the feeding process.

With the more "natural" methods where the fertilizer you're using isn't actually plant food yet but requires processing by soil-dwelling microbes to be useful to the plants, you may or may not have the micro-herd you need to provide the plants with enough food.


Not all soils are created equal, so I prefer to play it safe and assume there aren't enough or the right kinds of microbes present and either inoculate the soil with microbial products, use fully-processed organic ferts (like the Iguana Juice mentioned earlier) or both.

Being too careful just means you were prepared for problems that didn't happen. Much better than the other way around.

Unless you know exactly what you are doing, mixing your own is a bad idea.
Unless you know exactly what the plants are telling you they need, mixing your own is a bad idea.
Unless you know how to rectify an overdose situation in the medium, mixing your own is a bad idea. (gotta figure-out the cause first)
Unless you are going to compost those organic ingredients prior to use, they can actually do more harm than good.

Organics can and will burn if used improperly, and must be in a form available for plant uptake.

The organics previously listed may be fine for outdoors grows, or for an experienced grower indoors...but the slow-release properties of the organics means that once you put it in the soil, it had better be the correct ratios...because you can't take it out once it's in there. :eek:

Most major-brand potting soils are widely available, buffered, cheap, and they work just fine once you get used to using them.

In my book, organics are waaay overrated. Often to blindly anal extremes.

Quite a few of AN's products are simply different mixes of molasses and additives. Overpriced, and you can get the same results with affordable nutes, unsulphered molasses and some patience. (AN is an unnecessary, expensive habit)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lampost

Cool. So Calmag supplies all the micro/trace nutrients?! I did want a good micro nutrient solution to avoid defiencies.

I'm not insisting that the nutes are organic, but it would be nice if there is a simple way to do it. I've also heard there's less a problem with salts when you use organics.

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Calmag and "bulking agents" are a custom blend of molasses, with stuff like ferrous sulphate. (read the ingredients...either sugar cane or sugar beet origins, I believe) I use unsulphered molasses. It is not a complete set of micros and metals, but It does contain calcium, magnesium and iron, which is helpful in the flowering process. (wow...just like CalMag Plus :thumbsup:)
Likely a bad idea to add stuff just to prevent defeciencies, unless you yourself have experienced these defeciencies in your garden. If your nutrients are not providing your plants what they need, change nutrients. For instance, Fox Farms has all the micro's you'll need if used according to their online schedule. (no additional micronutes necessary)

Know what you're adding, and why you are adding it...before you add it.

Any and all non-organic nutrients will provide you with salt build-up. (a bunch of the nutrients are salts) Monthly flushing eliminates this problem.