Fried a circuit (Rental house) PLEASE HELP!!!

Shit, I'm so bummed right now. I just started my first, LEGAL medical grow. I'm using a 1000W HPS that a friend gifted me. I was a little worried that might be a bit much since I'm in an old 1930s house with pretty shitty wiring! And I was correct.

Today, I was running the HPS and my GF put some popcorn in the microwave and BAM, everything stops... microwave, fridge, HPS! I go out to the circuit breaker and flip all of the circuits. That circuit will not come back on!!! I'm freaked out! I don't know shit about electricity, but I can tell at this point it's beyond my abilities to fix!

I'm in a rental house so it's not that easy. This is a legal, medical grow but I think my landlord would kick me out. There was nothing in the lease about it, but she may still be able too... I'm operating under that assumption. What do you think I should do?? I'd rather not call my landlord and I can't sacrifice these few plants. Do you know of any things I can do to try to fix it? There's no visible signs of anything fried. I'm thinking about just calling an electrician... Do you know how much it would cost to replace a fried circuit? It's only the one circuit... I've got the fridge on an extension cord to the living room!

Any advice appreciated...

Number one, don't panic.

Second, is your wall plug one with a GFCI on it? Does it or any of the plugs in the circuit have one of these little "test, reset" black and orange buttons on them? Kitchens usually have one on the countertop plugs in case of water in the plug. I bet you just have to find the one that popped and reset it, maybe behind the fridge itself.

If that's not the case, you need to take some time to figure out which breaker is responsible for that circuit. You should have found out before you plugged in. The problem is you had your fridge and light on the same wire. When the fridge kicks on it sucks a huge dip of amperage.

I doubt you did any damage just move the light to a different circuit when you get things figured out. Stay off the washer/dryer or heater breaker if you can also.

Hey lampost, sorry to hear about your problem, I too had a few issues with my circuit breaker, fortunately I resolved them.

So in your case, imo I wouldn't call an electrician because they'll charge you an arm and a leg, unless you know someone that owes you a favor, or will do one for you, or do it for cheap. However it's really not all that difficult to fix, mainly just making sure the power is off when dealing with wires :D (very important; ive never experienced but I wouldn't ever want to), and then just making sure you put wires back in the same spots they were in. and there's only two wires to worry about, a white wire, and a colored wire.
Not hard at all, of course assuming you still have a decent short term memory to remember where the wires go:jointsmile:

I've included a step by step process on how to replace a circuit breaker courtesy of ehow.com (not that I couldn't explain, but theirs might be a little more reader friendly :) So enjoy and let us know if it works!

It starts at step two, step one is using a radio, but you don't really need to use that, you'll know if your microwave works.
#Step 2

Find your panel box. It's usually in the basement or utility room.
#Step 3

Turn off the main power, if possible. Most panel boxes have a main on/off switch.
#Step 4

Press the tripped breaker toward "off" to reset it, then to "on." If it trips immediately, you either have a bad breaker or a short somewhere in the circuit.
Replace the Circuit Breaker
#
Step 1

Purchase a new circuit breaker from a hardware store.
#
Step 2

Take the panel cover off the panel box by unscrewing the face plate.
#
Step 3

Notice the two wires feeding into the side of the breaker. Remember which one is in which position.
#
Step 4

Loosen the screw holding the white wire first just enough to get the wire out.
#
Step 5

Put a wire nut on the end of the white wire and bend it out of the way.
#
Step 6

Loosen the other screw and do the same thing with the colored wire.
#
Step 7

Pull the old circuit breaker out and snap a new one into place.
#
Step 8

Replace the wires in the same positions as they were on the old breaker - colored one first, white one second.
#
Step 9

Tighten the screws holding the wires.
#
Step 10

Replace the face plate.
#
Step 11

Turn the power to the panel on, if necessary.
#
Step 12

Turn the breaker on. You should hear your radio. If it trips, call an electrician since you most likely have a potentially dangerous short circuit.

Well, first off be real careful poking around in there. Get into the habit of using one hand only--you don't want to complete a circuit with your heart in the middle... "Sharpie" pens are used by some repair guys, you can push wires around with them (insulate ya from shocks) and you've got it handy for marking stuff.

On wiring--even just going back to the 60's--there should be some actual hardwire-type fuses (unless the whole service has been upgraded). They look like little sticks of dynamite with metal end caps. See any? Those must be replaced if blown, you can't "reset" them like a breaker. You can just check them for electrical continuity to see if they're blown. You may have some glass screw-in fuses, too. Is there another fuse box somewhere?

When you're trying to reset your mechanical breakers, make sure everything on the circuit is off or unplugged. Throw the breaker ALL the way off, and back to ALL the way on. Sometimes they're sticky.

Sounds like it would be worth the peace-of-mind (and safety) to have a pro come check it out. Having an outlet installed with heavy wiring prolly be about 200-250 bux. But you are possibly dealing with an unsafe situation. An electrical fire in an old house is something you'll never forget, if you survive it. :(

You should not run anything with a motor (includes fridge, etc.) on the same circuit as that thouie. (There's a big 'current draw' when a motor starts up.) You had the fridge, the microwave, and the light + ballast all on the same circuit, huh? You're lucky you didn't have a worse problem...

The more I think about this, the more I think you need to have a pro check you out. You really should have a decent understanding of high-current circuit behavior before you crank up a kilowatt-plus load on a questionable circuit in an old crib. Please be careful. :hippy:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jakester

Number one, don't panic.

Second, is your wall plug one with a GFCI on it? Does it or any of the plugs in the circuit have one of these little "test, reset" black and orange buttons on them? Kitchens usually have one on the countertop plugs in case of water in the plug. I bet you just have to find the one that popped and reset it, maybe behind the fridge itself.

If that's not the case, you need to take some time to figure out which breaker is responsible for that circuit. You should have found out before you plugged in. The problem is you had your fridge and light on the same wire. When the fridge kicks on it sucks a huge dip of amperage.

I doubt you did any damage just move the light to a different circuit when you get things figured out. Stay off the washer/dryer or heater breaker if you can also.

---

Oh holy shit Thank you! I think you may be correct! None of the outlets in the house are GFCIs except the washer/dryer so I didn't even think of that, but I looked around a little further in the kitchen and the one above the counter has one (I never noticed it), and it was popped!! No, I just gotta go flip all the circuits again and see... I'm sure that's gotta be it!

I was panicking a bit!

Anyway, I've decided to plug my light into the Washer/dryer circuit as I'm sure that'll likely have a dedicated circuit. Now I just plant on doing wash during the OFF light cycles (and I'll probably have to throw a green light bulb in the laundry room).... I think that's probably the best way to prevent this shit in the the future. It seems kinda odd how the circuits are routed through this house with one circuit controlling areas all over the house (upstairs/downstairs). They must've re-done it at some point though because it is a breaker box and not a fuse box...

I'll let you know if for some reason it doesn't work....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DreadedHermie

Well, first off be real careful poking around in there. Get into the habit of using one hand only--you don't want to complete a circuit with your heart in the middle... "Sharpie" pens are used by some repair guys, you can push wires around with them (insulate ya from shocks) and you've got it handy for marking stuff.

On wiring--even just going back to the 60's--there should be some actual hardwire-type fuses (unless the whole service has been upgraded). They look like little sticks of dynamite with metal end caps. See any? Those must be replaced if blown, you can't "reset" them like a breaker. You can just check them for electrical continuity to see if they're blown. You may have some glass screw-in fuses, too. Is there another fuse box somewhere?

When you're trying to reset your mechanical breakers, make sure everything on the circuit is off or unplugged. Throw the breaker ALL the way off, and back to ALL the way on. Sometimes they're sticky.

Sounds like it would be worth the peace-of-mind (and safety) to have a pro come check it out. Having an outlet installed with heavy wiring prolly be about 200-250 bux. But you are possibly dealing with an unsafe situation. An electrical fire in an old house is something you'll never forget, if you survive it. :(

You should not run anything with a motor (includes fridge, etc.) on the same circuit as that thouie. (There's a big 'current draw' when a motor starts up.) You had the fridge, the microwave, and the light + ballast all on the same circuit, huh? You're lucky you didn't have a worse problem...

The more I think about this, the more I think you need to have a pro check you out. You really should have a decent understanding of high-current circuit behavior before you crank up a kilowatt-plus load on a questionable circuit in an old crib. Please be careful. :hippy:

---

Yeah, I think I do. I'm definitely not attempting the hot work myself. I reset the GFCI and the circuit is still dead. The circuit breaker doesn't even flip to "off", the circuit just doesn't work. The breaker remains on... I don't know what that means. I mean I may've left a light switch on while flipping the breaker... would that make a difference? I tried to unplug everything, but there possibly was still light switch in the "on" position. I guess I'll try again in the AM.

Do you think I'll be OK running the 1000W on the washer/dryer circuit alone (and obviously running washer/dryer during the OFF cycles)?? I'm going to verify that the washer/dryer is on it's own circuit, but I think it is. I assume a washer circuit is rated high enough for a 1000W.

So, I guess I just need to get that one circuit repaired. I'm guessing that'll still be in the $200-250 range. Yeah, that was pretty stupid of me to not check into the circuit a little better! I'd run my 13-amp power saw on it all the time with no problems, but I guess the timing was just never right...

So, yeah this sucks I'm going to have to take my garden down one day. Even though it's legal I still feel the need to do that. Will the electrician be able to do the repairs entirely from the breaker box? Probably not, I'm guessing he has to come down and inspect the outlet where the huge draw was? I don't know. I don't know what excuse to tell them either. I think I'll just tell them that I had an electric heater or something. I think it's better for no one to know even though it's legal... Is this a pretty quick fix? One day fix to repair a fried/dead circuit? Arrgh! I'm pissed at myself because I could've prevented it by being more careful.

care is always important..
and just say you were using an electric heater/heavy power tools and the fridge turned on and *blam* no electricty
what i would be thinking about is WHY you had an electric heater/tools on that circuit in the place you had it..
and i would advise you find an outlet in a better place to run it if possible..

and yes your dryer circuit should be GREAT but you are gonna have to find a way to tap that power.. it is 220v...
and the washer MAY NOT be good cause it could be on a circuit that has OTHER stuff on it..
get a radio and go around the house plug it into ALL of your plugs and see where it turns off when you flip different breakers..
you might be surprised.
and DONT trust the writing on the panel..
mine was ALL fucked up bro.

my advice is look for a 20 amp breaker and trace what it goes to.. you may find one that goes somewhere interesting..

final advice have an electrician come in and run a 20 amp plug box to where ever you want to grow and say you want to set up a workshop and you think that it will trip MORE breakers if you do.. he should be able to do it with conduit and heavy wire for a couple hundred bucks and then you would have a DEDICATED circuit for growing on..
just my :twocents:

if you want more/different advice i will ask my roomie in the AM.. he is an electrician and could give you ideas i cant..
peace

~MG a.k.a. le Maine développé

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lampost

Yeah, I think I do. I'm definitely not attempting the hot work myself. I reset the GFCI and the circuit is still dead. The circuit breaker doesn't even flip to "off", the circuit just doesn't work. The breaker remains on... i think that means you got a dead breaker I don't know what that means. I mean I may've left a light switch on while flipping the breaker... would that make a difference? I tried to unplug everything, but there possibly was still light switch in the "on" position. I guess I'll try again in the AM.

Do you think I'll be OK running the 1000W on the washer/dryer circuit alone (and obviously running washer/dryer during the OFF cycles)?? I'm going to verify that the washer/dryer is on it's own circuit, but I think it is. I assume a washer circuit is rated high enough for a 1000W.

So, I guess I just need to get that one circuit repaired. I'm guessing that'll still be in the $200-250 range. Yeah, that was pretty stupid of me to not check into the circuit a little better! I'd run my 13-amp power saw on it all the time with no problems, but I guess the timing was just never right...

So, yeah this sucks I'm going to have to take my garden down one day. Even though it's legal I still feel the need to do that. Will the electrician be able to do the repairs entirely from the breaker box? Probably not, I'm guessing he has to come down and inspect the outlet where the huge draw was? I don't know. I don't know what excuse to tell them either. I think I'll just tell them that I had an electric heater or something. I think it's better for no one to know even though it's legal... Is this a pretty quick fix? One day fix to repair a fried/dead circuit? Arrgh! I'm pissed at myself because I could've prevented it by being more careful.

---

but you still have the little problem of WHY the breaker fried!
look to my previous post and you might have to spend a lil more money to BOTH get the breaker fixed and have another one added but it will save you and your house a ton of trouble.. a legal grow is still not covered in most insurance cases! if you burn the house down YOU could be held accountable and that would be expensive and could cause trouble with the law even though the GROW was legal.. burning a house down ISNT!!

~MG a.k.a. le Maine développé

Thanks for the advice. I'm calling an electrician first thing Monday morning. I'll just move everything and take down the mylar that morning...

I think my ballast is switchable to 220V (EDIT: I guess it's 240V). Where the bulb socket plugs into the ballast there is a place for 120V and 240V... so I'm assuming that means it can run on both. I didn't no that dryers ran on a separate voltage! Is that the case 100% of the time? I will try it, I just don't want to fry my ballast... but that would be ideal... then I would only have to pay to repair the old circuit. I don't want to dump to much money here because it's a rental as I mentioned. In fact, I'll probably be leaving after I get this grow under my belt.

Thanks again for your help...

Most home's outlets are wired with 14-2 Romex, that supply up to 8 outlets per circuit. ... If you ran 12-2 Romex, up to a 20 amp breaker can be connected. My electrical wire was all 12-2 Romex so I just shut the main off and upped a few 15 amp breakers to 20 amp. Please be careful. If you do not know what you are doing don't do it!

i have 10-3 from panel to one pair of outlets.. i run all the grow through those..
20 amp and ability to run up to 40 amp if i ran 220v..
thats the way to do it.. and then a couple HD extension cords to get where the power is needed.. (rated for 20A obviously)
one time cost of ... $50. but i have an electrician as a room mate/partner in this venture.. i grow and he builds and supply's $$.. sometimes
~MG a.k.a. le Maine développé

HD extension cords? Dose this mean Home Depot? Its still to early to think help me out. lol

heavy duty bro.. and i didnt get em at home depot.. i got em from a local hardware store..

~MG a.k.a. le Maine développé

I thought of that after I made the post :o

Just tell the landlord you used the microwave and it popped the circuit and don't mention the rest. Let them fix it. You and those of us here are the only ones that know the whole truth.

All this advice and a 1930's home that obviously has been modified equals one dangerous mess. Let the landlord worry about it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WashougalWonder

All this advice and a 1930's home that obviously has been modified equals one dangerous mess. Let the landlord worry about it.

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this is the best advice so far. if you handle it your self and something happens then you are liable. use the microwave story. after the electrician gets there you can ask him to run you a 240 volt circuit for a window a/c unit. and you pay for that part. but to avoid you being liable for for a possible house fire i would involve the land lord.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bcals0087

Hey lampost, sorry to hear about your problem, I too had a few issues with my circuit breaker, fortunately I resolved them.

So in your case, imo I wouldn't call an electrician because they'll charge you an arm and a leg, unless you know someone that owes you a favor, or will do one for you, or do it for cheap. However it's really not all that difficult to fix, mainly just making sure the power is off when dealing with wires :D (very important; ive never experienced but I wouldn't ever want to), and then just making sure you put wires back in the same spots they were in. and there's only two wires to worry about, a white wire, and a colored wire.
Not hard at all, of course assuming you still have a decent short term memory to remember where the wires go:jointsmile:

I've included a step by step process on how to replace a circuit breaker courtesy of ehow.com (not that I couldn't explain, but theirs might be a little more reader friendly :) So enjoy and let us know if it works!

It starts at step two, step one is using a radio, but you don't really need to use that, you'll know if your microwave works.
#Step 2

Find your panel box. It's usually in the basement or utility room.
#Step 3

Turn off the main power, if possible. Most panel boxes have a main on/off switch.
#Step 4

Press the tripped breaker toward "off" to reset it, then to "on." If it trips immediately, you either have a bad breaker or a short somewhere in the circuit.
Replace the Circuit Breaker
#
Step 1

Purchase a new circuit breaker from a hardware store.
#
Step 2

Take the panel cover off the panel box by unscrewing the face plate.
#
Step 3

Notice the two wires feeding into the side of the breaker. Remember which one is in which position.
#
Step 4

Loosen the screw holding the white wire first just enough to get the wire out.
#
.[/B]

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Unless you are trying to kill or scare the shit out of him please change step 5 to , "with a flashlight or other battery powered light turn the power off to the MAIN BREAKER before attempting to mess with your panel".

It's always worth a few hundred bucks to have a REAL electrician come out and make sure you're safe. Cost me 500.00 to have my room properly wired and 20amp circuits put in with proper #12 wiring etc etc. The good thing is, I can sleep sound at night knowing i'm not going to bust a breaker or worse yet, burn the house down.

Any serious grow should always start with the safety of the electricity providing the lamps their juice. You wouldn't build a house on a foundation of sand. Neither should you build a grow room on a foundation of potential disaster.

Thanks guys. I'm going to have the electrician come. I think I'll get the landlord involved too because I'm not going to add a dedicated circuit.

Do you know if the electrician will be able to do all of the work from the breaker box or will he have to inspect the outlets on the circuit?

I'm just going to repair the dead circuit and not get a dedicated circuit installed. I have a circuit for the washer and dryer and I'm just going to use that. If it can run the washer and dryer at the same time then I'm sure it can handle the 1000W. I run everything else (2 fans) to a different circuit. And I will only run the washer/dryer when lights are off. I don't know, I guess I may talk to the electrician when he's here and see if he can install another one if its not too expensive. I understand the peace of mind that comes with KNOWING.

OK... so I went around and played the breaker game and inventoried all of my outlets and switches. It's pretty crazy what I have. There are 4 circuits.. check it out:

1: 20-AMP, this is the one I blew. Controls Microwave, Fridge, some outlets in basement and some outlets in kitchen

2: 40-AMP, this one has EVERY other outlet in the house AND the washer/dryer!! Glad I checked because I thought the washer dryer was alone, but it's basically got everything on the same circuit

3: 15-AMP, Furnace only

4: 50-AMP, Stove only!! This one is what confuses me. It is one of those "double" breakers that has two switches connected. Says its 50-AMPS, and then the only thing it powers in my house is the oven/stove!! It's crazy. I wish there was an outlet for this circuit! I'm almost thinking someone grew here before, especially since I found a supposedly 50-amp circuit! I've noticed a pulley and other hooks and such hanging in the garage! Also seems like there was a lot of shoddy DIY work done in the basement as far as partition walls and such....


Anyway, my plan is still to not install any new circuits. I'm going to move as many household appliances over to circuit 1 and then put the light on circuit 2 (and only use the washer dryer when lights are off).

So, I just gotta get this circuit repaired. Do you think he would need to access any areas other than the breaker box if he's just repairing that fried circuit. Any other ideas? Do you think it would be cheap for him to install an outlet for the 50-Amp circuit? That would eliminate all of my worries? I guess I still don't whether to call the landlord or take care of it myself. I guess I'll call and get some quotes on how much just a repair would cost...

Thanks again for all the insight guys. I've worked in construction before and I don't mind doing the Mech/HVAC stuff, but when it comes to electrical I won't fuck with it. It's funny, a lot really smart construction superintendant's and foreman are like that!! :rastasmoke:

wall outlets and regular lights should never be on more than a 20 amp breaker. if someone has stuffed a bunch of wires under a 40 amp breaker that go to all sorts of stuff then you are lucky to still have a house. as for your washer and dryer they should be on a 20 amp by them selves. if your dryer is electric (not gas)then it should be on a 30 or 40 amp all by its self. if your stove is electric (not gas) then it should be on a 50 amp by its self. never run more than 4 different receptacles on 1 breaker 20 amp. i have seen many houses burn because someone thought they could just add another wire to the breaker. remember the liability thing and let the land lord handle it and you will not be held accountable for a house fire. hope you get it worked out with out loosing your girls.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by driftersmokinjo

wall outlets and regular lights should never be on more than a 20 amp breaker. if someone has stuffed a bunch of wires under a 40 amp breaker that go to all sorts of stuff then you are lucky to still have a house. as for your washer and dryer they should be on a 20 amp by them selves. if your dryer is electric (not gas)then it should be on a 30 or 40 amp all by its self. if your stove is electric (not gas) then it should be on a 50 amp by its self. never run more than 4 different receptacles on 1 breaker 20 amp. i have seen many houses burn because someone thought they could just add another wire to the breaker. remember the liability thing and let the land lord handle it and you will not be held accountable for a house fire. hope you get it worked out with out loosing your girls.

---

Yeah, I just realized that there's a fuse box too! So who knows what's going on. I think the fuse box may be another layer of protection, so 2 different fuses are maybe on one breaker? I don't know.

I called the landlord and unfortunately HE'S COMING OVER tomorrow! I'm not too worried about it. I just got to take everything down and then rebuild when he's gone. Should only take me an extra hour or two to prepare. I have feeling he's going to just end up getting an electrician over because I messed with the fuse box and no fuses were out either!

Are their any GFI outlets? if so make sure they are reset. any plug after the GFI will not work if its tripped.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rubberbubbler

Are their any GFI outlets? if so make sure they are reset. any plug after the GFI will not work if its tripped.

---

That was my first suggestion. I am still betting there is one hidden that is the problem.

My first concern would be the size of wire in the walls coming off of each of those 20+ amp circuits. Even if the breakers/fuses don't pop, if you're overloading the wire, there is a serious fire danger. If you're drawing 16 amps or so off of a 20amp circuit and there is only #14 wire in the walls, that is bad news.

It sounds like you have a Federal Pacific box, If so ask the landlord to put it in a safe condition for your families sake...

Federal Pacific Electric FPE Stab-Lok Panel Circuit Breaker Hazard, Repairs, Electrical Panel Replacement Electricians Directory for Stab-Lok Repairs

^ Thanks for all the suggestions everyone! I finally got this resolved today.

The problem was a blown fuse. It's kind of a weird set up because there's a fusebox in the house and then outside there's a breaker box. I assume the breaker box is where the electricity comes into the house. I didn't even know I had a fuse box. I called the landlord and he told me about it. He said he would come over, so I just let him to not arouse any suspicion. I've been here awhile and he's never come over, so I figure I'll let him check up on things now and then he won't need to come back. Anyway, he put in a new fuse and I'm good to go. The funny thing is that he put in a 30-AMP fuse... he must not have much concern for his house!!

I'm not worried though. I've mapped all the outlets now. As mentioned before I plan on running the lamp on the washer/dryer circuit that I have. This circuit is capable of running the washer/dryer at the same time along with a flatscreen, PC, some lights, etc. So, I'm going to run it on this circuit and never run either the washer or dryer while it's on. I think that should be OK since the voltage/current required by the lamp is probably less than that required of the washer/dryer running simultaneously.

Peace!

If he fixed it by simply putting in a larger fuse, that is a recipe for trouble. That is going to allow for your wires to heat way the F up if you have to much draw on the wire, and not trip or blow a fuse when it is supposed to. The fuses have those ratings for a reason.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RoundEye

If he fixed it by simply putting in a larger fuse, that is a recipe for trouble. That is going to allow for your wires to heat way the F up if you have to much draw on the wire, and not trip or blow a fuse when it is supposed to. The fuses have those ratings for a reason.

---

I know it is. That's why I'm wondering how much concern he has for his house! I'm actually going to throw a 20-AMP fuse back in there to replace the 30-AMP fuse he installed. However, I'm not using that circuit, so I'm not worried about it.

I'm using a separate circuit that will support my washer & dryer running at the same time. So, my rationale is that if it will support the washer/dryer at once, then it will support the 1000W HPS. From my research, a washer and dryer together would use significantly more than 1000W @ 10AMPS. So, if I use it on this circuit... and ensure that the washer/dryer are not used simultaneously, then I'll be all good.

Not much concern for his renters either. That is foolish.

BUT on the bright side, all your fears were lain aside. Yay!

Surprisingly there are many houses with this condition, add heaters because people cant afford fuel and it is a recipe for disaster...

here in maine when people cant afford fuel they open the oven on full blast.. sad i know but ya gotta do what ya gotta do to stay warm.. :(


~MG a.k.a. le Maine développé

Man, I've had nothing but problems so far... now I've got spider mites!! 5 days in and spider mite infestation... is there anything else that can go wrong? I better not ask :D

Oh well, I'm going to try to get a refund on the clones and replace them, but something tells me the mites will return.