32on/16off and 24on/24off

hey all, as always a pleasure :)

Just out of interest, I've looked around and can't find damn near anything on this..
however..
Has anyone here tried the light schedule in the subject title?
ie, 32 on and 16 off 4 veg, and 24 on and 24 off 4 flower
Would it double grow time, but twice as big.. do nothing.. or just generally fcuk with the poor girls and cause hermies??

Thinking about trying it with a few seeds and clones I have getting started atm.
Worth a try you reckon?

In advance.. much appreciation.. the community here is always pretty mint :cool:

Hmmm, a whole series (using clones) with different time schedules would be interesting. Just like people are geared to a day slightly longer than 24 hours, I'd assume that plants are to. I don't know about a 48 hour cycle, I think I'd try a try something more like 36. Wish I had the plant allotment to experiment like that!
Dennis in Montana

You would have to have a mean timer set-up to do all that time keeping. I bet that, like dennis said, if someone did like a 24/6, it might do something better for VEG. But I think that anything other than 12/12 will just cause hermies, like is already a known fact.

-C

'when in doubt, imitate nature' - 18/6 for vegetative growth, 12/12 for flowering ... there are no shortcuts to growing primo pot ... it requires patience, and leaving your plants alone, to grow naturally ... happy gardening :smokin:

I'm sure if it helped any people would be doing it all over. Good luck with your experiment!

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Originally Posted by Jungl3Jim

hey all, as always a pleasure :)

Just out of interest, I've looked around and can't find damn near anything on this..
however..
Has anyone here tried the light schedule in the subject title?
ie, 32 on and 16 off 4 veg, and 24 on and 24 off 4 flower
Would it double grow time, but twice as big.. do nothing.. or just generally fcuk with the poor girls and cause hermies??

Thinking about trying it with a few seeds and clones I have getting started atm.
Worth a try you reckon?

In advance.. much appreciation.. the community here is always pretty mint :cool:

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Sorry, not worth a try. :(

Questions like this make me sad; here you are growing or trying to grow marijuanna for your enjoyment or meds and you completely lack any knowledge of the plants biology. Plus you are unwilling or unable to read a book to understand it, because if you did you'd realize why 36/16 or 24/24 can't work.

Virtually all plants (and most animals) have innate circadian rhythms. These are rhythms of biological activities that flucuate over a period of approximately 24 hours. MJ is what's referred to as a "short day" plant meaning it goes to flower when the daylight becomes less. Actually the plant measures the dark period to make the determination to go to flower, and with mj aprox 8 hrs or less of dark the plant vegges and more then 8 hrs of dark the plant will flower.

So trying to veg 32/16 the plant will build up plenty of the chemicals to make it flower during the 16 hr dark period and have plenty of time during the extended photoperiod to try and revert that and veg. Won't grow very well scince it will be in a constant state of confusion, this will probably lead to hermies.
Trying to flower at 24/24 the plant again recieves mixed signals, so it's a no go.

Now there have been experiments with using a shortened circadian rhythm and it is possible to shorten the flowering times of mj but the vegative growth duration is the same, since you can veg 24/0 there is no gains to be had.
Using a 20 hr "grow day" you can flower at say 12/8 (border line dark, would need to use 24-36 hr dark during the switch over to induce flowering). Now for every 6 grow days you pick up 1 calender day. In other words a plant that needs 8 1/2 weeks or 60 days to flower could be finished in 51-52 calendar days.:D

See you don't want to lenghten photoperiods to speed things up, actually shorten the complete day. Hope this helps your understanding of the plant and piques your interest enought to read a fuckin' book on plant biology or horticulture.
Hope you still think the community is mint, understand that I'm just a cranky old man.

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Originally Posted by oldmac

Sorry, not worth a try. :(

Questions like this make me sad; here you are growing or trying to grow marijuanna for your enjoyment or meds and you completely lack any knowledge of the plants biology. Plus you are unwilling or unable to read a book to understand it, because if you did you'd realize why 36/16 or 24/24 can't work.


See you don't want to lenghten photoperiods to speed things up, actually shorten the complete day. Hope this helps your understanding of the plant and piques your interest enought to read a fuckin' book on plant biology or horticulture.
Hope you still think the community is mint, understand that I'm just a cranky old man.

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Thanks for the input everyone.. however I have only two issues with the replies so far..

First: Books are written by a person or people who have tried/experimented with a thirst to try new things instead of playing "Lemming" and following the masses

Second: There is no mention whatsoever of trying to "Speed things up". I was only interested as to whether anyone here had actually tried anything of this nature.
As per the following text "Would it double grow time, but twice as big.. do nothing.. or just generally fcuk with the poor girls and cause hermies??"
This is a question on experience.. opinionated degrading comments isn't exactly what I was after.. but cheers anyway.. every opinion counts, however if the world based everything it did on the comments of a "Grumpy old man".. where would we be right now? :wtf:

lol Jim, the world is run by grumpy old men.

Sorry Jim,

I did not mean to be so mean to you. The only opinion I gave you was to read a book. The answer I gave you was based on facts, as current science see's it. I did not mean to put words in your mouth about speeding things up, but felt the example that some people have tried or are using a short day technique was the only useful info from radically changing the photoperiod.

To answer your question:
1) it will not double the grow time....it just won't grow and it won't double in size.
2) it will do more then nothing, see #3
3) it will fuck up your girls and probably cause hermies.

I read and experiment, it works out pretty good for me. It's how I know about shorten grow days. I've lived my life by a simple philosiphy, try to learn something new everyday, and in my 79 years I've learned quite abit. Problem now is trying to remember it. :D

Sorry again, but as Sarah Louise points out the world is run by grumpy old men....it just that most of them don't grow pot.

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Sorry again, but as Sarah Louise points out the world is run by grumpy old men....it just that most of them don't grow pot.

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...and young men are expendable...(where have all the good times gone?)..:rasta:

so there is no way to extend the day? even a little? what if it was not so radical but more like 16 on 13 off?? or 12 off? that way the plants wouldnt have too much time to be rid of the hormones and accumulate new veg ones.. that is how you said it worked right?

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So trying to veg 32/16 the plant will build up plenty of the chemicals to make it flower during the 16 hr dark period and have plenty of time during the extended photoperiod to try and revert that and veg. Won't grow very well scince it will be in a constant state of confusion, this will probably lead to hermies.

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and i think that a slightly longer growing time and therefor larger plants would be the end result.
kinda buzzed so couldnt tell you if that makes sense but right now it does. lol
-J

maryjane spent the last 1 million years flowering after the summer solstice

we seem to find ways to improve nature in other ways all the time.. look at LED's we filter out all of the excess and beat nature..just a thought
peace

-J' Patron

I understand what you are saying...:thumbsup:...experiment all you want...publish the results. Everybody likes to hear good news.

I don't have that kind of time, anymore...:(

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Originally Posted by mainegrown

so there is no way to extend the day? even a little? what if it was not so radical but more like 16 on 13 off?? or 12 off? that way the plants wouldnt have too much time to be rid of the hormones and accumulate new veg ones.. that is how you said it worked right?

and i think that a slightly longer growing time and therefor larger plants would be the end result.
kinda buzzed so couldnt tell you if that makes sense but right now it does. lol
-J

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Hey mainegrown,

You are right, you can extend the photoperiod for longer then the traditional 12/12 and get some more growth. I just recently used 14/10 for a run with a grow tray where I felt I was short of light power, so what I lacked for irradience (photon energy) I tried to make up for with longer light duration.

The first problem I see with your proposed 16/13 schedule is you've then created a 29 hr "grow day". So then every 5 grow days you have expended 6 calendar days. The second point may or may not be a problem, and that is wether your plant can stay in flower with that long of a photoperiod. That you can check via an experiment, but remember that this can be very strain dependent. You may find one strain it will work for with no problems, but another strain may fall outa flower.

If you want to contemplate a radical light schedule, check out "martian method" on this board. Both Dogznova and Mother have grows where they have tried this (it is also refered to as martian nights). The offical name is PAD (photosynthetic artifical darkness) developed by a very sharp mind by the name of Shawn Rauber, with help from Salmayo and others. This method involves using certian light spectrums at certian intervals to trick the plant into thinking there is a dark period, when in reality the lights (certian spectrums) are on 24 hrs per day. This holds a lot of promise, not just in amounts produced but also in the quality of the finished product. :thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Dutch Pimp

...and young men are expendable...(where have all the good times gone?)..:rasta:

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Hey Dutch, so...where have all the good times gone? LOL You're almost old ;) how do you keep from being grumby?

I know the good times ain't here this AM, got a major snow storm. I started at 5am and it took me over 2 hrs to dig a path to the horse barn with the tractor so I could feed the animals! When I got done and got back to the house, I was very cranky and grumpy, but with a little breakfast and a lotta vapeing and now on my second hot toddy, I must admit it's beautifull.:D

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Originally Posted by oldmac

Hey Dutch, so...where have all the good times gone? LOL You're almost old ;) how do you keep from being grumby?

I know the good times ain't here this AM, got a major snow storm. I started at 5am and it took me over 2 hrs to dig a path to the horse barn with the tractor so I could feed the animals! When I got done and got back to the house, I was very cranky and grumpy, but with a little breakfast and a lotta vapeing and now on my second hot toddy, I must admit it's beautifull.:D

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Oldmac,

It's been some time since you and I have last conversed. I'd like to chime in and say that I am in no way anywhere near your level of experience and wisdom, however, I can tell you that (from my experience) being grumpy is a sign of having a critical perspective. Now, when someone says "critical perspective", the definition may be misconstrued into a negative one. Being critical is a sign of ultimate maturity and wisdom. Critical perspectives are how science works! Someone says this is how someone works, someone else doesn't buy that bull shit, does some tests, and fuckin' proves their ass wrong! Be proud of being grumpy! Just smoke your herb and life is grand. The end.

Thought I should say hey.

And to the OP, don't ever pass up good advice from Oldmac again. Not a wise decision on your part.

SMG out:hippy:

I've been growing indoors for 30 years and have tampered with the light/dark schedule in just about every way you can think of.Many verities flower perfectly with 14/10 with just a slight increase in yield but no shorting of time till ripe. many also hermaphrodite .less than 10 hours dark fucks them up. more than 12 hours dark fucks them up.12/12 is a sure thing and you should stick with it until you've dialed in all the variables for your phenotypes .when you have maxed out production under standard growing conditions and know what your babies will do THEN change one [just one] thing [IE..14/10] and see what happens. BTW i have not tried the "martian method" or LEDS ,they sound interesting .and i must confess i haven't changed off 12/12 for 20 years....it works fine for me so why try to fix it.good luck

Hey there SMG,

I wasn't going to continue this thread, but I've been busy first with a pre-Christmas snow storm, then with going away for a few days.... I had a chance to think about what I had said. Got back yesterday for a doctor's appointment today and decided to add a few things here.

First SMG, thank you for the kind words. I am a critical thinker and I try to educate myself thru reading and experiments. I also believe in trying to be at the cutting edge of whatever I do. I believe strongly in LEDs and aeroponics and those are my current interests. But none of that gives me the right to be nasty to someone else on these boards.

And the OP, Jungl3Jim, had a right to take exception to my harsh comment. I have answered questions for newbs and others, that start off with..."this my be a dumb question..." and on more then one occasion I've replied "there are no dumb questions, just dumb answers" and this time I gave an answer that was informative but hurtfull at the same time.

I appologize again to you Jim, you did not deserve the cheap shot I delivered. I do hope tho that you and others here that do have a curiosity about the plant we all love will spend some time learning about it's biology. By understanding what it normally does, and how it does it, will allow you to exploit it to it's full potential.:thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by oldmac

I appologize again to you Jim, you did not deserve the cheap shot I delivered. I do hope tho that you and others here that do have a curiosity about the plant we all love will spend some time learning about it's biology. By understanding what it normally does, and how it does it, will allow you to exploit it to it's full potential.:thumbsup:

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No need.. :)
as I said every opinion counts no matter how its delivered.. cheers :thumbsup:
However, what I dont understand is how a cycle can be shortened but not lengthened?
"Now there have been experiments with using a shortened circadian rhythm and it is possible to shorten the flowering times of mj but the vegative growth duration is the same, since you can veg 24/0 there is no gains to be had.
Using a 20 hr "grow day" you can flower at say 12/8 (border line dark, would need to use 24-36 hr dark during the switch over to induce flowering). Now for every 6 grow days you pick up 1 calender day. In other words a plant that needs 8 1/2 weeks or 60 days to flower could be finished in 51-52 calendar days."

If the internal rythym is as set as you say it is.. then why then can it be shortened but not vice versa?
You ARE right.. I need to read a lot more but I've done OK so far I would think
as I said.. everything counts.. cheers for taking the time to bother to reply in any case :postgood:

I use 20/4 for veg and 12/12 flower, I think 4 hours rest is enough but might try 18/6 next time around.

Sorry johnou85, this was not a pole of what photoperiod to use, or even a discussion of "normal" photoperiods. And btw, people need to "rest" plants don't.

Jung3Jim,

Besides a plant having an overall circadian rythym, the ability of a plant to go to flower or to stay in veg is determined by the photoperiod. Marijuanna is a "short day" plant but it is more accurate to say a "long night" plant since the plant measures the dark period. It does this by produceing chemicals (auxims) and hormones (floragen) during the dark period and sending them to the plants apex. These chemicals build up during the dark and are lost again during light. (This sounds famiilar, chk your thread "when does flowering start" of Oct 15th, '09).

The plant can build up these chemicals and go from induction to initiation of flowering in 24-36 hours of darkness. But will fall out of initiation or even the developemental stage of flowering if given light for 14-16 hours. So technically you can extend the overall day length, if you extend the dark period, but cannot extend the photoperiod. So you could theoretically create a "36 hour" day, but it would be 24hrs dark and 12 hrs of light. The results of that extended day would be less growth, due to certian processes taking longer to switch over on the light change and an increased risk of hermephodites due to the unnatural rythym.

This begs the question; why would you want to extend the "grow day"? Especially if it does not improve the final product or slows rather then speeds up flowering time. Time is money (re cost of electrical power) so trying to speed flowering up is what most people concentrate on trying to do, when screwing with the length of the grow day.:D

Hope that makes sence or cents to ya.:thumbsup: -oldmac

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Originally Posted by oldmac

Sorry johnou85, this was not a pole of what photoperiod to use, or even a discussion of "normal" photoperiods. And btw, people need to "rest" plants don't.

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An excellent point!

I concur, plants need to que timing both in light and darkness, and to respirate, not rest. In fact the norm is for plants to increase respiration and burn more carbs in the dark, not rest.

Looking forward to reading this thread!

Take Care, Sal.

There are days when there is 14 or 15 hours of light. There are days when there is 10-11 hours of light. Adjusting the amount of light a plant gets within a one day period may not upset your plant too much.

Or it might f--- it up big time. oldmac is right. Plants have evolved for millenia to grow in certain time periods-- the organelles in plants have DNA that tells them what to do--and all of this is based on the 24 hour day. You can't "train" or "teach" plants to absorb light for 24 or 36 consecutive hours...the chloroplasts aren't like a light switch that just stays on once it's on. The plant's DNA tells a plant how and when to absorb light and convert it to energy...and when not to. And all of this is based on a 24 hour day.

Could you change the plant's DNA so it would tell the chloroplasts to keep converting light energy as long as a light source is available...as in, longer than the 10-15 hours in a "normal" day? Well, yeah. But you'd need to be able to makes changes at the DNA level of the chloroplast...and we're nowhere near that. Or you could try to find a genetic mutation that does what you want, and try to cross breed it back to gain that characteristic. But I've yet to see this sort of plant mutation, so that's not really reasonable. Or you could just keep plants under artificially adjusted "days" of 48 hours with more light, and wait for nature to take its course and evolution to take place. In a few hundred thousand years or so, you will probably get what you want. Evolution of this type is a very slow process. The bottom line is that "changing" the length of the day is not going to work.

Now, changing the amounts or types of light within a 24 hour day, or working within light parameters that a plant is used to...that could do something. If you flipped a plant from 24/0 veg to 15/9 or 14/10 flower, you might get more rapid growth...the plant would, theoretically, be converting about 15-25% more light to energy. But I suspect that the DNA in most plants wouldn't buy that either, and you'd get sudden halts in growth, hermies, or both. Might be worth a try, though.

"Hours of uninterrupted Darkness" is the accepted standard for proper photoperiodic triggering, But I do think that there are "DAY" light DNA sequences. I tend to think of them as sequences that are used at night, but they are shortened versions of them with light driven start/stop receptor sequence sites.

Take care, Sal.