Fan Leaves yellowing and browning 3 wks into flowering

What is your experience level? (first timer, novice, experienced...)1st timer

Your Equipment:
.1) Type and wattage of lights. (MH, HPS, CFL's, tube fluorescents, LED's)600w HPS
.2) Distance from tops? 1-2.5 ft
.3) Reflector type? (cool tube set-up, bat wing, enclosed reflector, bare bulb...)enclosed air cooled reflectors
.4) Is there a consistent fresh air supply?Yes
.5) Do you have an exhaust fan and a circulation fan?Yes
.6) What are the bulb wattages, kelvin ratings, and schedule?12/12

Your medium:
.7) Specific brand and type of soil, (coco, peat based soilless...) and anything you've added to it. (vermiculite, perlite, worm castings...)Fox Farm Ocean Forest
.8) Size of container.Approx 3 gallon rose pots
.9) Did you use peat pucks (or similar) to root clones or germinate seedlings?Rockwool cubes

Your nutrients and water:
10) Source of water? (tap, bottled or filtered) What's it's ph before adjusting?Tap water ph 7-7.2
11) Method of checking water ph. (ph pen, test strips, aquarium test kit...)Pen
12) Method of adjusting water ph. (phosphoric acid, white vinegar, hydrated lime, PH Up...)ph down
13) Specific brand and N-P-K ratio for each bottle. List dosages (quantity per gallon) and current feeding schedule. Age old Grow is 12-6-6, Bloom is 5-10-5 bat guano is .01-.10-.01 as percentage
14) How often are you watering between feedings, and how much per watering? I check the medium w/ a meter and water accordingly. usually every two or three days about16 oz per plant.
15) Any additives or tea's? (Superthrive, CalMag, molasses, Mother's Earth...)liquid bat guano
16) Are your ph levels stable, or do they fluctuate? pretty stable
17) What is your ingoing water's ph? ...your runoff ph? Tap water at 7-7.2, runoff at 6.4 this morning, plants were fed 3 days ago. Runoff ppm @ 900 thyis am
18) Do you foliar feed? If so, with what, how often, and at what time do you spray?No

Your growroom:
19) Indoors or outdoors?Indoors
20) What size of closet, room or hut?10x11
21) What are the temps and humidity levels while lights are on? ...With lights off?Max temp currently 75ish, minimum 58-60.
22) Have you seen signs of insects in the growroom?Have had a few mites, they are checked and sprayed with neem oil or Organicide(mostly fish oil)regularly.

Your strain:
23) What strain are you growing? (Indica dominate or Sativa dom?)White Rhino
24) From seeds or clones?clones
25) Is this an autoflower strain?no

I tried to get some input on this issue in the indoor growing section and got only one response, so here goes. The plant pictured has been in flower for 3 weeks today. I know that it is normal for the fan leaves to yellow at some point in flowering, but I want to make sure this isn't too early. The plants otherwise seem healthy, and trichomes have been developing on the flowers and surrounding leaves for about a week. I would greatly appreciate any input, as I'd hate to get this far only to screw it up. Thanks everyone.

It looks like nitrogen deficiency but with as much bat guano and other nutes you're using its not that.
My best bet is those do not look like 3 gallon pots, they look closer to 1 gallon. I'll bet you're dealing with root bind and nute lockout because of it. You could try carefully repotting in bigger pots. Use some B1 to help prevent shock.

I think killerweed is right. Need 5 gallon containers now.

looks normal to me too senor. maybe a little early, but those leaves probably aren't getting a whole lot of light. so that combined with the fact that the plant is flowering is definitely plausible. i don't think that you have anything to worry about with that.

on one of the pics the fans up near the top of the plant are a little yellow. next time you might want to give your ladies a little more N before you flip them. some people like to gradually change over with a schedule similar to this....

2 parts veg/1 parts bloom
1 parts veg/1 parts bloom
1 parts veg/2 parts bloom
all bloom

that is obviously not specific, but more of an idea. this will help ensure that your ladies get enough N through flower because although they don't need much N during flower, they do need some as it's necessary in the production of chlorophyll and amino acids as well as essential for photosynthesis. it is also an essential element of tissue.

hope that helps.


-shake


if those plants have been in flower then they should just about be done stretching. i think if you were root bound you would be experiencing more problems than just the yellowing of leaves. that's just my $.02.

Thanks for the responses all. Leaves (no pun intended) me in something of a quandary though. According to my calculations my pots are approx. 6.75 liters, or about 1.75 gal., so they are clearly not big enough, and I was lied to. I thought they looked a little small. Anyway, I'm not going to use them anymore, but what to do with this group of plants? I don't want to stress them unduly by transplanting them unnecessarily, but I also don't want to reduce my yield too much, or worse, allow the problem to get bad enough that they stop bud production completely for lack of carbs because of lack of chlorophyl. I'm going to buy some 5 gallon grow bags (.28 per, disposable, screw it) but haven't decided whether to transplant all, just the worst, or none. In the meantime I prepared a weak nutrient solution to foliar feed them to see if I can reverse the yellowing a little. My grow store should get more bags this pm, along with the soil I will need to make up the difference in volume (they were out of that too yesterday).' Shake, when I put these into flower, I actually did about what you suggest, except it was one third bloom, 2 thirds grow the first week, then half and half the 2nd. This is the first week of all bloom nutes, which in the case of what I'm using are by no means devoid of nitrogen, so I thought they would be ok. Who knows. I knew this was going to be a learning process, but damn!

Looks like you're getting good advice so far.

You need to gently slide the plant(s) out of the pots and have a gander at those roots. That's one good thing about those tapered square pots; they make that easy. Use a "frosting knife" to loosen things up if necessary.

If they're rootbound, it would explain your apparent N deficiency symptoms. Adding more N won't help if you've got a lockout. (A flush followed by a light feeding usually temporarily improves lockout symptoms, so you could try that with a plant or two as a diagnostic tool...but you'll still have to deal with the cause.)

If they look rootbound, they'll need potting up, but IMO only to the next larger available size. Repotting won't stress them, they'll love it if they need it. But most strains I've worked with lately haven't generated much new root growth after the 12/12 flip. That's why I'd advise a pot size increase of only 1 increment. Plants at this growth stage may not drink a 5 Gal container dry enough between waterings, and sloppy soil will give you a similar-looking set of problems.

adjust the ph of your ingoing water so your run off is between 6.7-and 7, VERY IMPORTANT!

Heres a look at the roots. I'm no expert, but this root ball looks healthy and normal to me, so I don't think they are rootbound. What do you all think?

Item #22: using all that neen oil or 'fish oil' "regularly"...worries me...:wtf:

Regularly means whenever I see any sign of mites or every 3-4 weeks as a preventative. What kind of negative impact are you concerned about?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by senorx12562

...this root ball looks healthy and normal to me... What do you all think?

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Yep...normal, healthy, and rootbound.

Light flush, then transplant up 1 container size. If you leave them like this much longer it may be difficult to get the roots to explore the new medium when you do transplant.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by senorx12562

Regularly means whenever I see any sign of mites or every 3-4 weeks as a preventative. What kind of negative impact are you concerned about?

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coating or clogging the leaves?...maybe, increasing the heat on the leaves?

I think you probably have some kind of nute lockout. What kind?...I don't know...sorry. Most of the 'White' strains do have leaves that turn yellow very early. Usually they start at bottom and work up...very slowly, though.

Well, I'm going to try flushing with florakleen, adding a micro supplement (Cal-Mag) to my feedings and when they dry out in a couple days, transplanting to 5 gal. pots about 2/3-3/4 full. Am I missing anything?

Sounds good. I've used Sterilite waste baskets in a ~3 gallon size when I couldn't get proper size pots; that worked fine. Paint or light-proof tape for the translucent models; don't forget adequate drainage holes.

I'm always leery of leaving a humid pocket of dead air at the top of the pots. Bugs like that, esp. fungus gnats. :mad: If you're stuck using the 5 gal. pots, I'd put 3-5" of drainage material** in the bottom of the pot and keep the top of your rootball within an inch or so of the top of the pot--no more than necessary to accommodate your watering technique.

**(Semi-smooth river stones from Ace Hardware, ~$3 a big bag, work well. I got some near-hydro roots going into 'em last time. :D) If your roots populate all the soil you can replace some of the stones with additional soil in the same container. Kind of a transplant in the same pot. I do it allatime. :thumbsup:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DreadedHermie

Sounds good. I've used Sterilite waste baskets in a ~3 gallon size when I couldn't get proper size pots; that worked fine. Paint or light-proof tape for the translucent models; don't forget adequate drainage holes.

I'm always leery of leaving a humid pocket of dead air at the top of the pots. Bugs like that, esp. fungus gnats. :mad: If you're stuck using the 5 gal. pots, I'd put 3-5" of drainage material** in the bottom of the pot and keep the top of your rootball within an inch or so of the top of the pot--no more than necessary to accommodate your watering technique.

**(Semi-smooth river stones from Ace Hardware, ~$3 a big bag, work well. I got some near-hydro roots going into 'em last time. :D) If your roots populate all the soil you can replace some of the stones with additional soil in the same container. Kind of a transplant in the same pot. I do it allatime. :thumbsup:

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That's a great idea about the stones in the bottom. I wish I would've read your post before this morning, when I transplanted all of them (god my back hurts). I never thought about the space between the medium and the bottom of the foliage as a home for pests. I'll keep an eye on that. I probably have a leg up there though, as my humidity is so low this time of year only the mites come around, and I just try to take care of them preventatively. Thanks for all your help.

i just ran into a similar problem where plants being rootbound showed all kinds of deficiencies. i have since (last night) transplanted so hopefully they will start perking up.

-shake

Good luck. I'll post pictures in a couple days.

It appears that the girlies are ok after the flush and repot. I'll keep posting in the indoor growing forum, but not here unless I'm wrong (again) or have more problems.