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after watching The Union a documentary about the BC bud business, I found out that American prisons are privately owned, but operated by local fuzz. that shit is messed up, hey, I wanna buy an american prison... ok, just need your 3million and sign here... and it's yours!.
that shit is messed up.
oh, and fuck Harry J. Anslinger.
yeah, pretty fucked up, hu? they trade on the stock exchange, too, lots in the portfolios of the big dogs that own DC. It has been a constant growth industry thoughout the normal business cycles for decades. :wtf:
haha..........yeah it is a serious reality check, now look into the justice system here, you will find they are connected. It is a business and if you find your self involved it is not in your favor. Only you need about 3 billion to buy a Prison not 3 million, a 3 million dollar jail is like for 30 people or less, and cost about 3-5 mill a year to run.
At some point the business side won the fight and now it is all business. And as long as there are enough people to pay taxes then it is in their favor to keep those prisons full and over crowded so the need to make more prisons is a priority. smoke or propaganda is hard to see through sometimes
Going against the machine is a battle won by few.
Ask Tommy Chong he knows a thing or 2 about private prisons.
Have one located in my state.100% private,contracts out for federal prisoners waiting for their cases to be heard.
It's yet another industry benefitting from the continued prohibition of cannabis..get busted twice in my state you're likely to go to the pen
Keep the scumbag repubs who love to lock us up out of office and support peace and freedom by voting Democrat in 2010.
Kind of reminds me of the movie: War. INC
I believe it has the dad out of My Girl in it. (im terrible with names)
Americas at war with Iraq but its not America...if i remember,the countrys run by gatorade...or someone of the likes.
Ever hear of the Bilderberg Group? They sound just like everyones saying.
They meet every year (used to be in the Americas somewhere) now they meet in Europe,under the New-ish European Union.
According to theorists and believers, i being part of the latter, this group is in control of the world and is considered by many as the NWO ( New World Order )
Note the Euro Dollar. According to the same theories ( to this i wont put my name ) there is meant to be an Amero ( the american euro dollar ) and one for the Australasian region called the Pacifico..these are meant to be the 3 "super states" of the new world.
Listen to Barack Obama next time...he always mentions "the new world"
So I believe profusely anything government is owned by the retail sector...and the retail sector is the new government...take my gf for example...she doesnt recognise our Prime Minister...but recognises a french supermodel from a glimpse at the side of a bus.
:thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by eastbaygordo
Prisons have been privately run capitalist ventures for YEARS in this country. It's nothing new. Some of you younger folks are just now finding out the truth - thats all. Old farts, like me, have known this for years.
Thats why there are so many people in prison for petty drug offenses. It's all about the money. It's all about greed.
Corporate America runs this country and don't you forget it. :wtf:
Nobody dared open an MMJ dispensary during the Bush yrs. (2000-2008) - even though MMJ had been legalized in many states already. It wasn't until Obama (a Democrat :thumbsup:) took over the White House that people started to operate dispensaries, write prescriptions and pass laws to regulate the MMJ business.
Republicans are bad for working Americans. Republicans are bad for your freedom!! I wish people would wake up and see that for themselves.
They actually opened dozens in Cali during the Bush years...What I think is messed up is that in this tough economic time, several states have resorted to selling their gov buildings and then leasing them back so that they can have enough money right now to make it by! It's like going to a payday advance place, they give you the money you need right now but at what final cost?
You couldn't be more wrong on your statement in my opinion. It was the individual state governments that decided to use corporate prisons to reduce costs because of guess what? State budgets out of control. Hello California?Quote:
Originally Posted by PufferLungs
No FEDERAL prison is operated by a corporation.
It is so easy for some of you to blame President Bush and his administration when in fact it is CONGRESS that made and allowed decisions such as these. Who has controlled congress for most of the past 60 years? The democrats.
Marijuana was made illegal in 1938 under a machine gun law, by who? Democrats who controlled congress because of what? Racism fueled by economic hardships whites were having in finding jobs. Look it up.
True conservatives want government including the dea and everyone else out of our lives, because the best government is the one that governs the least. It is up to the states to grow a set of balls and exert states rights as to what is legal and illegal in their boundry's. I suggest reading the Federalist Papers.
Voting democrat today only increases socialism and communism to further increase as seen from the past year. Bush was by no means perfect, but blaming ONE person is to state that ONE person runs this country. NOT TRUE!
I teach political science and economics at both the high school and university level. I hold PhD's in both. It is the socialist mind set that thinks the democrat party who has enabled people to remain dependent upon government for DECADES, starting with welfare in the thirties. And that was supposed to be a temporary program. Look at it now.... a way of life for so many who refuse to look for work. (some people do deserve to be on it because of issues they are unable to overcome) All people who vote democrat are really doing is SWITCHING MASTERS and inviting more expanded government control into their lives, and allowing their liberties to be further trampled.
The Great Depression was created by Roosevelt and his administration and congress. (Never let a crisis go unused...sound familiar? Obama and this socialist congress are using the exact same tactics, and the exact same outcome is coming....), It was a recession that begun under Hoovers administration as a result of no banking oversight, easily overextended credit, investing through speculation, and states that could not control their own budgets....sound familiar again?) These are facts. Roosevelt expanded government so greatly and deeply during that recession, that it became a depression that took a decade and a world war to pull our country out of. History is repeating itself, again.
Marijuana dispenseries were in fact in operation in California during the Bush years, many actually started during his presidency, it was the state of California that has not until recently had the balls to exert states rights, and trying to force the dea to abide by their state laws and is still dealing with that issue.
I don't care who anyone votes for, but I respectfully would suggest looking at the facts before making comments about parties and assigning blame when in fact it is the exact oppostite.
Another kool aid republican.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phunnyman
Fail
Calling names is the best you can do?
I didn't insult you, call you names or anything else. I disagreed with you and explained in a concise intelligent and articulate way as to why. BTW I'm a libertarian who believes in the United States Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and individual freedoms above all else.
I THOUGHT this was a forum to openly discuss issues concerning our individual freedom.
Look up everything I shared, these are facts, not opinions. And I'm not even defending Bush, not one of my favorites either
Best of luck to you.
phunnyman has it pretty much on point. I am neither of the 2 party system, because they lie, cheat, and steal from us all.
Our system is corrupted beyond belief by both parties working against us all. We the people are the losers in our system each year that goes by, no matter who is in office in any department.
Agreed, we need to take back power from those who rule us and restore our country back to for the people by the people. So much misinformation is out there, like the government lets corporations run our prisons. It begins with the state governments and theose we elect to congress, not a party, not a president, etc.... EVERY President campaigns on change and look what happens, same old song and dance, business as usual.
Get active, stand up to BOTH party's and demand that you are represented by those you elect, and remind them that they can be fired in the next election if they fail to stand up for you. And most importantly, do not rely upon actors, hollywood, the news media (talk about being bought and paid for) or what the spin machines of these party's tell you.
Some of my closest friends are those who are completely opposite of where I stand politically, socially, religously, etc... but we have one thing in common, we are NOT happy with the way things have gone for a quite a long time and we are educating ourselves with facts, not hatred.
:smokin: amen brother.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phunnyman
point of information, Cali had MMJ coops even before Prop 215 was passed by the voters in 1996. After Californian's passed Prop 215 and MMJ became the official law of the land there, Democratic President Bill Clinton tried to prosecute the doctors of California, as well as the patients, but the Supreme Court called bs, and struck him down.
Jail is a place that shelters millions of homeless. Every good must have bad in it's recipe.
Its the new manufacturing sector. Manufacturing non-violent cannabis criminals for the criminal justice system. Money, money, money!!!. :jointsmile:Quote:
Originally Posted by boaz
I beg to differ in one respect. When Carter was president, and IF he had gotten an second term honestly (no Iran hostage, Iran/contra bullshit) he would have followed the recommendation of the Schaffer report and cannabis would not be treated today as it has been by GOP presidents. Nixon, Reagan, Bush I and Bush II. And since the so-called 1994 GOP Revolution, things have gotten far worse then during Carter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phunnyman
True, a good government is less government but making that happen is nearly impossible today. It has become too intrenched an has become an occupation. The founders intended to have representatives and senators have their real occupations as shopkeepers and the like, not lawyers and career politicians. :twocents:
The only difference between the Dems and Reps in this context is what they lock you up for, not the overall incarceration rates. You're fooling yourself if you think otherwise. Obama just wants to lock us up for not having health insurance or "hate speech" instead of possession. A distinction without a difference.
The issue that Carter had during his presidency that ultimately cost him a second term was that he had a democrat controlled congresss to contend with, extremely high inflation rates, a recession that had been fueled eartler in the 70's, and his administration could grasp control of an economy. I remember people with excellent credit only being able to attain 21 percent interest rates on housing and cars. Things have gotten far worse since Carter because of the Congress and who controls it, an increasingly socialistic/communistic group of elitists who can stop spending and think you should do what they say, and they're exempt.Quote:
Originally Posted by gypski
Ronald Reagan, did exactly what classical economic theory (3000-5000 years plus of existence, dating back to the Egyptians and the peoples of the Near East); he cut taxes, cut governemnt spending, and even with the recession that occurred because of a congress that could let go of pork projects, his presidency had the greatest growth of any presidential administration ever.
During his term as governor of California, he was the ONLY governor to actually operate the state in the black AND provide tax cuts and rebates to citizens of that state.
Bush 1 was not so effective.
Clinton had a democrat controlled congress for the first part of his administration during which he floundered with our country and economy experiencing steady growth. His administration was held to the test when the Republican revolution of 1994 took place and the second largest period of economic growth occurred.
Bush 2 had an increasingly left leaning congress that refused ot pass bills upward, reducing his effectiveness, with 9/11 being a huge problem. That attack was aimed directly at the economy of our country. I think that he did as wel as any other president could have done all things considered, but during the last three years he was increasingly weak and unable to lead because of the congress he had to deal with. He was not a great president but he beats the hell out of Carter, who is considered by many political researchers and economists to be the worst President ever elected.
Obama is a different story. He is without a doubt a socialist who brought absolutely zer experience and qualification to the table, campaigned on change (which EVERY candidate does when challenging that office) and he voted for out of emotion, not issue.
He has spent more money that we don't have than every other administration combined, and with a socialist and elitist congress, is intent on increasing government control and intervention into every aspect of our lives.
We are about to experience an anomoly that will include hyperinflation, a depression, and that coupled with a true national unemployment rate of closer to 17-18 percent when all true unemployed persons are included, will damage the nation so badly that it will takes decades to overcome.
Think Russia during the 70's and 80's, when people were standing in line for whatever was available. You and I are about to experience a true command economy with very little market or traditional economic properties. Our true enemy is our current congress, who has never met a crisis they couldn't stretch as "if we don't do something now...." only to expand pork projects and increase government dependency while removing constitutional rights. This is making the Patriot Act look like a boy scout badge.
On the cannibus issue, not one president has ever looked upon the plant favorably since it was made illegal in 1938, when it the depression was so bad that mexicans were shipped out of the country because they were taking white peoples jobs. Marijuana was but one of the things thay blamed upon them, along with crime, etc...
Yep I totally agree, no one should be in jail for mj, I personally think jail or prison is for those who have broken laws and acted against society so badly they cannot be trusted or our safety is at risk as citizens.
I believe its the congress we have to fear, not the President. They are our biggest enemy. Just my opinion. For what its worth, for a living I study and research economics and the influence of the government upon market economies. I spent years in the entertainment industry and if you want to see some real winners to throw rocks at, look at people like Sean Penn and Madonna, there are some examples of sperm who should not have won that swimming race.
Presidents are like football coaches, they get too much credit for good times and too much blame for the bad times. Too bad they can only get fired every four years.
Excellent analogy.Quote:
Originally Posted by senorx12562
With sincere respect to TruePyroman and I'm not even trying to be a smartass or anything but seriously asking, who do you think should run the state prisons that have been contracted out to private companies?
I personally think that if a private organization can with oversight to ensure the safety and rights of the prisoners, can more efficiently and effectively operate a prison, then so be it if the state government with the blessing of the citizens should. Again, very close oversight should be used to make sure that no one is being tortured or abused beyond what basic human rights should dictate.)
Bear in mind the last figure I heard was that it costs an average of $38,000 per prisoner, per year to house and confine a prisoner. If the state cannot even manage its own budget like California, Michigan, and so many others, then perhaps a company that is contracted with legal oversight should. This would prevent more unionization that would drive costs up even further. Not anti-union at all, as they have both their positive and negative qualities.
I would also think that all people who are imprisoned for any crime related to Marijuana that is nonviolent should be released immediately. That in itself would lighten the burden of cost. (The idea that a naturally occuring plant that has no history of causing death, has so many uses including medicinally and economically, and has a the ability to provide so many more untapped uses could be illegal is absurd...I agree...Fuck Anslinger.)
Who do you think should operate and manage them if not a company that specializes in that? Should it be just the state or should they all be federal government?
i spent 4 years in prison in michigan and a couple were private owned but most of them are the fed gov. gives each prison about $45,000 per prisoner and in return only spends $10,000 total on each per year with a strict starvation diet of about 1,100 calories a day any more than that you have to hustle or what ever but first 30 days is the hardest dealing with food imagine your plants with half light and half water
Phunnyman, I think you make a good arguement here. I believe in free market capitalism, too, and would agree with this on most things but I believe prison is a whole other kettle of fish. It has always just seemed different to me for some reason, it is a sort of trust or an agreement that we all have as Americans that no person shall ever be subject to cruel and unusual punishment, not even if they are inprisoned.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phunnyman
If you look at the Bill of Rights that Madison and Jefferson introduced at the First United States Congress in 1789, half of the ten amendments concern rights of Americans against unfair treatment by the criminal justice system. The eithth amendment seems to sum it all up well in just sixteen words.
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.
Our founding fathers understood the dangers of a prison state and felt the need to write protections into the Constitution. This Constitution is still the law of the land today, despite the confusion by the pols.
Private prisons don't save money for tax payers. Any savings becomes profit for the share holders, so they cut costs by understaffing, paying guards minumum wage, cutting all medical needs and basically letting Americans die in a cage. Profits becomes bribes to judges and pols who continue to feed the market with insane laws like cannabis prohibition.
The good news is Cheney and Berto have been indicted in Texas for Prison Profiteering. Its a start, but they need to line up all those bastards. :twocents:
Hi Boaz,
Hope all is well with you and yours and enjoying a Happy New Year. I agree with your statement and also believe that all those who were profiteering on this need to be held accountable. I'm not a huge fan of the Bush Administration, and I'll even go out on a limb here and state that there where things about them I did like, but overall I wasn't impressed. I feel the same way about the Clinton admin as well. I'm a fan of Ronald Reagan, perhaps its the old comic and actor in me but I liked him for his ability to communicate, he really made me proud to be an American. I like Kennedy too, he could have changed the entire outcome of the sixties and seventies.....
You are absolutely right I think, on the amendment and its purpose. As an advanced country, we should be leading the way in ensuring human rights abuses are not tolerated in any way shape or form. I've always thought that leading by example was the way to go, and not by dictating what others should do. That's my arguement with this congress and our current President, as well as the past eight years before. It's an elitist group, regardless of the ideology, they are not leading by example, and they are certainly not showing any sense of fiscal responsibility or accountability at all. Communism has never worked successfully in any country, and repackaging it and marketing it doesn't change what it really is. Just my opinion.
I wish you the best and hope you have a great week. Hopefully we'll meet in person one day and have a great debate over a wonderful bowl!
G
^ sounds good to me, i'm always ready to smoke a bowl and bs. :jointsmile: yeah, i gotta admit i kinda miss Raygun, too, just for his speaches, they were inspiring, whether you believed him or not.
best you and yours, too, my friend.
go cowboys. :smokin:
oh, yeah, that sig is cracking me up big time. :D
well lets see here...we pay the police to ticket,harrass, and arrest us by any means necessary, then you go to court that we pay for (they are paid quite well as a matter if fact) and their job is to fill prisons so that stocks will go up(marijuana is their bread and butter crop of prisoners) making the big wigs smile and roll around on their beds naked with all that money and when profits dwindle they push more prisoners so the politicians start pushing the police to crack down heres an extended budget to accomplish your goals plus a little spending money for you this was all preceded by a wonderful public statement by joe politician about how we are going to crack down on drugs followed by a talk with the judges to be less lenient on drug crimes now if you cant afford an attorney one will be appointed for you, now this guy doesnt make shit for income so hes just there to make it seem like your rights are actually being protected but we all know your ass is going to be in pain here pretty soon because were all just dollar signs to anyone in that arena. this my friends is why marijuana is still illegal.
in summary this is what i have concluded..CONFLICT OF INTEREST
They're all the same. R. D. You need both wings to fly and if we can't get some kind of credible 3rd party to break through and control the head, some foreign hunter is gonna shoot the bird and eat us.Quote:
Originally Posted by eastbaygordo
Vote your conciense, not your party. If we all did that then the constitution might still be valid. As it is now, our country is nowhere near free. Only pretends to be.
It gets worse every time we trade partys. None of us win. Just lose more freedom.
When a Boxer is payed to take a dive its a "Pay off"Quote:
Originally Posted by senorx12562
When a Baseball player is payed to strike out, its a "Pay off"
When a politician is "Paid Off" to support an Agenda, its a "campaign contribution"
wats even more fucked up, is the slave labor we continue to allow prisons to produce. not only do we lock take away convicted felons voting rights and lock them up in subhuman conditions... we make them work for pennies on the hour... this is slave labor... and what is sad, is that conservatives pull a joke on us, by using this slave labor often for cities recycling... while i am pro environment, i am pro human rights more so... which is why if i'm n a city that does this, i don't recycle... the only thing worse than a regular old fashion fascist, is a hypocritical liberal fascist.
no more slave labor. we are all equal. even those convicted of crimes. they should keep their voting rights, and human rights in general. it's not punishment, or at least it's not supposed to be about revenge and punishment. it''s about rehabilitation and for those who cannot be... mere protection for the rest of us. it shouldn't be inhumane which it is.
wats really fucked up is the company that owns a prison makes a killing, they get government funding (no initial investment basically), and then make a shitton of money off the slave labor they produce!
communism didn't work because you had two global economic systems which both required expansion. capitalism could raise more money, and thus wage a better war. both capitalism and communism work in theory. both have struggled in practice. true capitalism has never been successful without Keynesian type socialist policies to protect the economy. furthermore, capitalism concentrates weath, and without socialist programs wealth cannot be re-redistributed, (i state this bc capitalism redistributes labor into wealth from the working class to the upper class, so it is a type of socialism just in reverse), without re-redistribution, the capitalist system fails, as there is no longer profits, and it'll transform back into feudalism. communism on the other hand, has always been interrupted from the outside or corrupted by the inside. i support neither, just making an indifferent observation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phunnyman
furthermore these prisons that are corporate run, do violate human rights in the form of slave labor, paying inmates mere pennies an hour. unless you as a capitalist think this is a fair wage... it's a companies dream... as low a wage as they desire, and this is why prisons should not be handed over to capitalists.
During hurricane katrina 500 inmates in a prison were executed by the guards.
Survival is Everything. Here's a Short video to give you a Idea of what Real Society is like with no law enforcement during political unrest. With that in mind the law enforcement could also be following enslavement procedures.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vX6-mLSazAI
If You dont believe in any of this than heres you alternative lol>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvy_UPmgE9M
I'm sorry but "you need both wings to fly" is a cliche not a political argument. so is vote your conscience not your party.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lurker50
Repugs are worse than dems. Yes Dems aren't that great... but we do NOT need the right wing. It's time to evolve and move this country back to the left, i don't see the dems doing that, as they seem to have reclaimed the corporate center mindless moderates position in american politics.
I don't see us losing more freedom under Obama and the Dems... i do see us getting minor victories paraded as great change... tho it's not.
I'm sorry but the only part of the constitution that is worth anything is the bill of rights. The rest of it can be tossed. The rest of it was designed by rich white property owners to protect their power. That's why its so difficult for our government to do anything. I'd wipe my ass with that constitution if i could get my hands on it. It's crap paraded around as freedom. "pursuit of happiness" only means right to property, yet no one has the right to live basically. If you own no property and cannot or refuse to make rich people richer, the constitution may provide you the right to believe in whichever Dead God you wish... but it doesn't protect your life. There are no sustenance rights. This is the problem with the idiot Libertarians. In a great world, yes... we could trust people to have a decent respectful economy... but in a capitalist world, human nature is changed to live and let die.... or live and help die really. If it's not profitable it's worthless... if i don't make someone else money, i'm useless and no one should be concerned about my life.
screw the constitution. screw the republicans... screw the libertarians (who have the right idea in a perfect world, but are just simply naive)
I find it so funny that so many ignorant self-proclaimed hippies would vote for the homophobic pro-corporation Ron Paul... simply because he was for legalization of pot. That's idiotic and naive. But expected, we are used to Liberals who believe in equality being for legalization. However, there are conservatives for it as well... but for different reasons...
We need the government... we need a strong central government... we just need it to be on our side. Bc right now it's on the corporations side, and simply removing it, is merely going to allow the corporations to run completely wild, because even tho the government is in their back pocket... well, they keep them in check slightly if only for their own good. Now if we can capture government... we can fix things.... unfortunately everytime we get close... John Edwards moved the democratic presidential debate to the left... however the corporatists just stole his ideas with never any real plans to follow them. Obama is Edwards-Lite.
The united states has never been free. It's always been a LIE.
why yes, this helps prove my point quite well. when you treat people like animals, they will behave as such. when you treat individuals as commodities... then this is the type of chaos that breaks out when you lose control.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip06
I'm talking about changing society completely. Because human nature isn't genetic or biological... it's sociological. It can be changed... it has changed. During feudalism... property rights were controlled by a very few, yet, the surfs while still a lower class, had sustenance rights... the right to food, shelter etc... everyone had these rights... under capitalism we do not have these basic rights... we must "prove our worth" to the capitalists wallet... or die. so yes when this system breaks down... there will be initial chaos... the capitalists will reap what they have sewn. However, if we step in and change the basic structure of society before this system fails... which it will given time and further mental retardation by CEOs n Presidents n congresses who support them.... if we change it... this is not what "human nature" or the nature of society will look like. it is what it looks like now. which is why we need law enforcement... but not revenge and punishment....
Norway has a prison system where the longest sentence is 22 years. The person over their prison system has a PhD in Philosophy. They retrain convicted felons... and treat them as people, and pay them a normal wage for work they complete. There is no stigma attached to them... and thus, Norway has the lowest crime rates in the world. Because there is no repeat offenders... once they are rehabilitated... they do not go back to crime. Here, we just throw em in a cage n piss em off for 20 years or so, then we let em out and expect them to have "learned their lesson", when we have taught them no such lesson, other than people are sadistic resentful followers of slave morality. and we wonder why they do what they do.
Morons, both of you.
I smell what your steppin' in.Quote:
Originally Posted by senorx12562
Quote:
Originally Posted by SirSmellyEwic
now if there is any wonder as to why we have the highest crime of any country and house over 40% of the worlds prison population this is it. correctional facilities...riiiiggghht:mad: what are we to conclude but that they first make criminals and then punish them for it. maybe if all these top dogs smoked a little things wouldnt be this bad...oh wait they do:wtf:
The Union is a great documentary and I think helps open the mainstream public eyes. It is scary to think that our prisons are being run by private owners! How did this even come about? I think this documentary sent a message to alot of people not to just go with what you are told and to actually question our state and our country when it comes to OUR tax dollars! :jointsmile: