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Elderly and disabled could be 'forced to commit suicide' under changes to rules - Telegraph
True or not true.....the fact that the daily news even spews such whimsical tales of a socialized health system should serve as good warning to all the big govt. titty suckers here in the states. Wake up.....its shit.
That article is about euthanasia legislation...not the the NHS.
I can find a nightmare story daily in the news from England regarding the nanny state healthcare joke you guys have....i wont tell my uncle Mikes cancer story from London.
Euthansia= People to fucking lazy to wrap their lips around a revolver like a grownup.
Well,Islandborn,now we know what we have to look forward to:wtf:Quote:
Originally Posted by Islandborn
Quote:
Originally Posted by Islandborn
Euthanasia bears no relevance on the NHS; you can't back up your points with bullshit and opinion and expect nobody to call you out on it.
The NHS is broken, i would be the first to admit that. But it's a damn sight better than watching your countries poorest inhabitants having to choose between medical care and putting food on the table. The NHS is part of a welfare system that is designed to guarantee a basic quality of life for everybody in this country; in my eyes that's a valuable thing.
Peace out
Basic quality of life? I always thought Reducing treatments and rationing healthcare lowers the standard of living in a nation.....and thats exactly whats happening in England. Again....my uncle Mike flew to Chicago for his colon cancer treatment instead of waiting in London....6-8 month wait to begin for him....and that was 5 years ago. Not what I want for my 60 year old mother.....sounds like SHITE.
Well said, while I am not familiar with your countries health care system, I am more than thankful for what I have here (medicaid).. I have 3 Children and am a single Father, can't tell you how happy it makes me to be able make sure my children are all up to date on their immunizations, medications when ever we need it, etcetc, I don't know what I would do without it at this point.. Although once things get better and I climb my way out of poverty I will no longer be eligible for medicaid, then it will be a choice of medical care or food, power bill, etcQuote:
Originally Posted by Kid Dynamite
As i said, the NHS is seriously flawed. But pointing it it's failings isn't an argument against a national health system, it's an argument for a BETTER national health system. Everyone knows stories of the NHS failing a friend or relative; but you don't hear about when they get it right, because it doesen't make good news. Yes, the level of service and care in the US is higher; but that's because you have to pay through the nose for it. Not everyone can afford to do that.
Everyone seems to wrapped up in the idea that any kind of 'big government' is awful and should be avoided at all costs. But the fact of the matter is that the rich-poor divide in western countries is only going to get bigger with time, and if you have nothing in place to provide for people who can't afford the most basic healthcare then people are going to fall off the radar.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not talking about hand-out's here, or big government mollycoddling the people. What im talking about is government action to address gross inequalities. I'm not a socialist, or a liberal idealist. In fact my opinion of the NHS is that it would benefit from partial privatisation. But you have to recognise that despite it's faults, the NHS serves as a safety net for the worse-off people in society. It's desperately in need of reform, I readily admit that, but the concept is a step in the right direction.
It really depends on whether or not you think health care is a public service, or whether you see it as a profit driven enterprise.
You have alot to say in criticism of the NHS, but I would invite you to suggest to us in which ways the American system is better.
(purely opinion)
Peace out
This may help.....
Want to fix the NHS? Go private - Telegraph
This is a great start
If you want to get a unbiased view then I advice you to stop getting your information from the telegraph.
It's a load of rubbish that is tailored to win the conservatives votes. It's basically a tabloid for people who went to university. The message of that article is 'VOTE TORY OR DIE'; pretty standard scare-mongering.
Islandborn.... your're a f**king idiot!
I WISH YOU'D WRAP YOUR LIPS AROUND A REVOLVER AND BE A MAN!
Its assholes like you that give American's a bad name, a stereotypical loudmouth idiot!
What are you trying to achieve by posting a thread like this anyway?
I'll have a stab at it - you disagree with the new leader of America's policy on nationalised health care..... you know, the foriegn guy... Barak Hussien
(And before you start - I'm not a racist, I hate people from all races, colours and creeds equally)
So you've posted a link to a story in the Telegraph which supports your viewpoint that nationalised healthcare is shit.... this makes you feel good and re-enforces the opinion you have... You also hope that anyone who reads it will agree with your opinion on nationalised healthcare....
Truth is, It doesnt matter what your opinion on nationalised healthcare is... if the government want it.... they'll have it... either way, you dont have a say...
Britains National health service is one of the only true Great things left in Great Britain!
The part where it fucks up! is on stupid beaurocracy whereby it is run as a business and 'Managers' are encouraged to meet certain targets with certain financial incentives! (which help to line thier own pockets through bonuses)
An example of this is when G.P's are given financial bonuses if they lower the number of smokers who are registered to thier practice... or waiting times or 'whatever'
This encourages greed, lies and deciet and hampers the quality of treatment and service the National Health Service provides... where 'managers' are inclined to increase thier own departments profits and cut costs as much as they can.... much to the detriment of the average patient attending hospital who experiences this by recieving a declining standard of service and care...
Essentially it has gone from being an absolutely great social concept of providing 'free healthcare for all' to a fucking business that cuts costs wherever it can and essentially boils down to numbers and figures...
The main 'fuck up' of the UK's N.H.S is the fact that it is becoming more orientated towards profit.... and less towards quality care....
Wrap my lips around a revolver......yikes....how scary.
I read all the different papers including the Daily Mail.......i didnt know one paper was for smart college grads and the other was for the dumb illiterates...ill have to research better next time.
Free healthcare for all is a pipedream.....not real...someone is gonna pay for it.
I'm not sure what the first half of your rant was about but I voted for, as you put it, the foreign guy...Barak Obama...
Its not the 'idea' of free healthcare that bothers me....its the 400 billion in Medicare cuts, its the 5000$$ dollar fine people get if they CHOOSE not to have insurance in their 20's like TONS do.....its also about this being done in the midst of what Obamao called the " Greatest economic challenge since the great depression"......
We havent even got to the constitutionality of it yet.....cause there is a case to be made that you cant force healthcoverage onto people. It should be interesting.
I dont think the majority in England need a certain paper to tell them that Labour and Gordon Brown are a joke. Whens election?
Couldn't tell you! not interested! never voted!
Election's are for people who are dumb enough to think that thier vote counts! an illusion of democracy and freedom If I can put it like that....
All politicains are a joke my man, I don't know a single one with any integrity here in the U.K... although In the states I do like that old American guy Ron Paul.... he seems to have some decency about him and is orientated towards being truthful and standing up for your constitution... Too bad guys like him will never win the presidency!
All national newspapers along with the BBC are biased in some way in support of the Government... If you want real news that really matters you'll have to seek it out through independant media outlets on the internet or for 'example' if you wanted an all round perspective on news from the middle east, you could watch Aljazeera which is also 'biased' from the arab side and then watch 'fox' or 'whatever' and make up your own mind...on an issue...there are two sides to every story is what I'm getting at....
Russia Today is also a good news broadcast to check out.... obviously biased towards the russian state but quite truthful on events in the West and in Iran.
What's worth realising is that all state owned media is a tool used by the government to program people with thier agenda's and propaganda... Its a mechanism of state control and nowadays one of the best applied agents of socialisation after Family, Religion and School.
(I'll let you look up what an agent of socialisation is)
Quote: Free healthcare for all is a pipedream.....not real...someone is gonna pay for it.
Its not the cost that is free everyone who pays tax pays for it!
but free in the sense that it is 'universal' its for all people regardless of thier income.... unlike in the US I'll quote KID DYNAMITE:
It's a damn sight better than watching your countries poorest inhabitants having to choose between medical care and putting food on the table!
The actual number of people in America with NO insurance because they cannot afford it is around 3 million.....Im not saying, nor have I said they we dont need reform....we do need reform for sure. The healthcare bill currently proposed in a 2200 page nightmare of more big govt......fines for people who dont want it.....big new taxes..coverage for illegals....and a cost of 2.2 TRILLION dollars during the greatest supposed threat since the depression.Quote:
Originally Posted by monny10
Govt. is never the answer, its the problem. People have got to get away from thinking their governments can solve all their problems and start fixing their lives for themselves.
Obama promised over and over his healthcare would lower costs, extend coverage and improve Americans Healthcare options.....none of the proposed bills do any of that. NOT ONE.
2010........
Here is a good article that sums it up
Growing public backlash over Obamacare | Washington Examiner
You hit the nail on the head! :thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Islandborn
So, it's not the NHS that's the problem then (though it is in a poor state) but rather the problem is the 'ObamaCare' bill...from that article it looks as if it's going to bleed money.Quote:
Originally Posted by Islandborn
Something else has just occured to me as well...America is made up of federal states, whereas the UK is a single country, so any comparison of their healthcare systems is pretty redundant :D
next question;
'How can we provide universal healthcare without the costs spiralling out of control?'
answers tomorrow please
:thumbsup:
Originally Posted by Islandborn :
" Govt. is never the answer, its the problem. People have got to get away from thinking their governments can solve all their problems and start fixing their lives for themselves. "
BINGO ! :thumbsup:, we have a winner ! :thumbsup: ... evidently, I agree 100% :D