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So I just read that aluminum foil is shit for reflecting any kind of light, which I had heard before it's ok if u use the dull side, but that's beside my question. I just read that flat white paint works better, and doesnt wear out like Mylar may, so does any kind of flat white paint work?? Like even just spray paint??
Thanks for any input in advance...
Use flat white paint with a brush or roller....:thumbsup:...I tried that spray can shit; it's thin, runny and the mist goes everywhere, and does not cover well.
Flat white paint fa sho
U need to make sure the wall ends up nice and smooth after you paint it, to get the best reflection. You can't get that with spray paint.
And yes, Al Foil is shit.....no bueno
Sweet, thx for the info :) I'll keep that in mind
Haha, I can't get smooth WITHOUT spray paint(or sandpaper) lol, guess I'll stick to mylar...Quote:
Originally Posted by hanayama
mylar is more reflective than flat white paint. depending on the mylar it's about 90+% reflective as opposed to 85-88% of flat white paint. the paint is much easier to work with than the mylar though.
-shake
I just hate getting it perfectly flat against the surface, comes in like 5' wide rolls and I'm working by myself with almost no patience lol.
Good deal, thanks for the input guys.
what is another subs. or mylar?
and where to buy besides hydroshops???
the reflect for car windows will work too right?
and warm blanket material right?
Mylar sucks - very fragile, loses its reflectivity, 'fogs' after awhile ... I used the best DuPont 2mil Mylar, never again ... I'll go back to flat white reflective surfaces, unless my 'Luminix' experiment pans out ... 'Luminix' is a Mylar-like material, for building insulation ... unlike Mylar, it is tough, won't tear, or scratch, seems almost as reflective, but I'm not sure how good, yet ... it has almost invisible pinholes in it, so the building can 'breathe', so it would have to be applied to a wall, and not 'stand-alone' ... bought mine online from Home Depot, they don't carry the 4' wide rolls in their stores, only the 2' ... might be worth checking out :smokin:
A couple of lumens difference in reflectivity do not justify the expense of mylar(s). You aren't talking about a 5 to 10% performance enhancement overall, it's 5% of the reflected light within a 3 foot arc under the light. (400w HPS) Perhaps a 1% (guestimate) difference overall. But bringing the Mylar 'walls' closer to the plants (and lights) can restrict airflow and trap heat. I'd grow in the middle of my growroom (not using walls at all) before adding an unnecessary expense that bends, folds, cracks, scratches, collects water stains, and has to be replaced on occation...to still be of minimal benefit.
IR: being an insulator, does Luminix retain heat?
Merry Christmas, everyone :thumbsup:
being an insulating barrier, 'Luminix' reflects heat, yes ... it's a pretty thick foil material, reinforced with internal thread, and, (so tiny, I didn't even see them at first), it is perforated with rows of tiny pinholes , very, very tiny, so it can 'breathe' in the attic space, and not promote condensation ... I bought it strictly for use as an insulating barrier, but soon noticed, that while almost as shiny as Mylar, you can handle it, and rub on it, but it doesn't 'fog' or scratch ... you can't easily tear it, either ... using a light meter, and comparing it to other surfaces, it seems to be reflecting noticeably better than flat white, and almost as well as regular Mylar ... Home Depot carries the 24" width rolls in their stores, or you can order a 48" wide roll from HD online ... seems to be high-quality stuff, worth checking out, anyway ... :smokin:
Cool. Hope they work for ya. :thumbsup:
I tried the space blankets, and tore them down the next day. The fans blew them all over the plants. The Mylar lasted a week before I tired of the stuff. Noisy and they collect dust and water spots, and scratches... Been using white paint, or white plastic bathroom panels that I cut to size. (4' x 8' sheets from Home Depot) A permanant solution. :jointsmile:
this last summer, we lined a grow room with that Home Depot 'tileboard' also ... flat white, water-resistant stuff, it seems OK, only one garden through it, so far ... :thumbsup:
Um where in the fuck does everyone decide flat paint more reflective than anything?? As a person who applies and sells industrial coatings, flats carry a sheen value of 0-6% where in the hell anyone get 80+% of reflection or sheen value from is a lie.This info is on MSDS sheets peeps. Gloss latex acylic enamel has a reflective value of 80-95% I can have you all do a little excercise paint a wall in flat and paint a section in gloss...which one can you see a reflection in?? Flat paint is made from the leftovers strained shit left over from making good paint, latex enamel is breathable,flexable,washable and has anti-fungicides/mildwecides built in to the paint...now I suppose you want to mention you can add it in. Latex acrylic enamel in satin or higher sheen is what you people need. Everyone runs around quoting Cervantes and shit, I met him..have proof..and I am currently submitting an article to him, at his request. Im rewriting the book on bullshit flat wall coatings. Hate me:pimp:
Cool. Someone that knows what they are talking about.
Now if you could post your findings on reflectivity of used mylar (with the obligatory water spots, scratches, folds...)
Also, since you obviously know people and things, perhaps you could post Mylar's effectiveness when using CFL's or fluoro tubes.
I've never read Cervantes that I know of, however, the main reason I personally recommend flat-white paint...is that 99.9% of the closets in the USA are painted flat white already, and most gardeners do not need to be so anal and misguided that they demand an unnecessary product just because an acquantaince of Crevantes recommends it.
I also recommend the flat (satin) finished side of the bathroom panels, because the shiny (glossy) side disperses the light unevenly. Regardless...my guess is that the lumens gained by purchasing shiny reflective material is not cost effective, nor does it even help in some cases. (CFL's and fluoro tubes, for instance)
Do I hate you...? No. Do I trust your insight...? No, not yet. But then we haven't read your test procedures or results yet either.
Keep in mind...it's not our job to blindly accept your rather bold claims. But it is your job to back your claims with actual proof.
Spot on.Quote:
Originally Posted by headshake
-C
Quote:
Originally Posted by RockyMtnDezL
Ok, well go do numerous light studies, I'm talking about studies involving the footcandles observed in to scale models of LEAD certified buildings. Look through the books and facts. Reflective surfaces absorb light/energy. White, being the presence of all light(additive system) it is as bright as you can get. And seeing as flat white paint absorbs less than gloss white, that means that flat white paint is AS reflective as you can get without using mylar, which, if wasn't made from the insulating material it is made of, would not reflect as much seeing as it is glossy and absorbs/retains more light/energy.
-C
There is so much more to just a coat of paint that you fellas have no idea, what it takes to truly obtain a coatings true sheen. I dont need to do light studies, its simple. I bet you have no idea the purpose of a primer, and what they can do. Im not selling shit, so I, not gonna drag this out. If you still believe flat REFLECTS more light you are still wrong, flat disperses better...its flat, no reflection properties..aka sheen index value for light dispersion. Thats is, forget your footcandles, scale models are not real life experience. C you said it YOURSELF. Flat paint absorbs LESS than gloss...and that means flat is just as reflective???...you lost me. Yea If I throw a sheet of mylar over my flat wall...all I will be doing is waiting with bleach to scrub that paint job off as soon as mold begins to fester on your "shiny flat walls" behind the mylar. You get where I am going here?? My argument is simple...flat is NOT reflective,NOT washable,invites mold and fungus, and should only be used if you are covering it WITH mylar..there! And if you are worried about light dispersion, your walls should be straight, not crooked. The dude asked about REFLECTIVE qualities and you want to lie to him about flats reflective qualities..not light dispersion. Anything can disperse light...the type of roller used can disperese light, with the stiple created...but you architects already knew that. Tuck it in boys.
Only for those anal enough to really think a few stray reflected lumens will make the difference in their growroom worth the cost of changes to existing conditions. (a closet painted white, for instance)Quote:
Originally Posted by RockyMtnDezL
I used to work for a company that istalled, removed, refinished concrete aircraft hangars, machine shops, warehouses, retail outlets... using a series of coatings. Mainly from a company named Tennant. We used a wide variety of concrete coatings from epoxies to enamels, from standard foot traffic applications to heavy, chemical resistant products capable of handling the heaviest of loads and the consistent scraping of forklift blades.
Proper reflectivity in a store, warehouse or hangar is paramount. When we would apply glossy coatings, often they would have to be chemically sanded to remove that sheen, because of the hot spots in the reflectivity that could actually blind a forklift operator or customers. (glare) If I'm not mistaken, the satin finish dispurses the glare (direct reflections of the light bulb) rather than directly reflecting the light into your eyes. Using this method, companies used less lighting for the same space, and in a safer manner for customer and employees.
Could we get the name of the paint company you work for. Would love to know so I can avoid their products, if this is their performance level. Just because a paint is flat white, does not make it unwashable. It does not promote mold, humidity does. And...it's reflective enough to work fine,Quote:
Originally Posted by RockyMtnDezL
I've used flat white enamel for many years, and yes...it's washable.
As far as Mylar goes...I'd sooner use tin foil if I had to use either. Of course, the tin foil is much cheaper and would be temporary, as I would most definatelly be at Home Depot getting the flat white paint. Perhaps you like to spend your money unnecessarily on products you don't really need, in an effort to what...gain a couple of lumens? Would be much cheaper and worthwhile just buying a side-lighting CFL.
What are the spectrum losses in reflectivity between flat white paint and Mylar? How many supplimental CFL's can a gardener buy versus one roll of Mylar?
Not nearly worth the time, effort or money spent.