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I was thinking as I often do and came to an idea that maybe creationism is being helped along by atheists. My reasoning for this is that anyone with a functional logical reasoning brain is disgusted by the lack of science in creationism and spurred on to action to not only expose the failings of creationism but also the failings of religion.
What are your thoughts?
lol thats funny. So you're calling virtually all scientists co-conspirators in an attempt to subvert religion?lol
Maybe its the other way around. Religous zealots trying to subvert the work of scientists.
Saying that dinasaurs walked the earth with man is a joy to hear for a scientist because only a numptie would believe it.
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIwiPsgRrOs[/YOUTUBE]
:thumbsup:
I think ppl tend to look at things the way they've been tought, and perhaps the teacher was wrong. I do believe in evolution to certain extent and creation is still possible with science.
YouTube - Dr. Zakir Naik - Does God exist?
creationism and atheism.
Both are beliefs.
I believe we evolved, but yet I believe God was the hand behind it. So what if it took 13.5 billion years. For me them 13.5 billion years passed like lightning.
I think God has no problem with one or the other. One group wants to know the truth about how God did it. The other group is happy to believe 5000 years old stories. I think both are doing the best they can.
I quit trying to convince the creationists that we evolved. It was always a fruitless effort, and some times caused me much stress. The creationists need to follow the teachings of the bible:
The thing that makes me sad is the hate that I some times see because of this debate. God don't want us to hate each other.Quote:
Matthew 7:6 "Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces.
I'm sorry but I don't see how you can be a true believer in the inspired word of God (a.k.a. Holy Bible) and yet still accept evolution. It just can't be done. Sorry but if you want to please God just put your trust and faith into what he has said. Jesus will be coming soon. Praise your lord and savior Jesus Christ and God Bless!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by pepurr
Do you really believe, in your heart, that God is going to throw me into hell because I believe God created us by having us evolve?Quote:
Originally Posted by chris62008
I do put trust and faith in God. Have been for longer than you have been alive.
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Proverbs 8:11 For wisdom is better than rubies; and all the things that may be desired are not to be compared to it.
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Proverbs 20:15 There is gold, and a multitude of rubies: but the lips of knowledge are a precious jewel.
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Matthew 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
People know fast food is bad for them and yet they eat it for breakfast, lunch and dinner. There's no saving some people.
Same goes for the Bible. It's just a story, and an inconsistent one at that. There are many other books of the Bible which the powers that be just up and decided to delete or exclude.
J.C. was just this guy, you know? He just wanted everyone to be nice to each other, and they nailed him to a tree for it. Fuckin romans man.
Brian was just trying to get laid and they did the same thing to him . . . :wtf:Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyZ
I can't agree with you there Johnny. The bible is much more than a story. True, it was put together by committee. True, when it was canonized it was done so with an agenda, but it is way more than only being a story.Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyZ
There is history, truth, knowledge, wisdom, hope, and love within its pages. One can learn of mans struggle for justice and freedom. It proclaims our love of God and for God's love of us.
Don't write off the bible, my friend. There is much that can be gained by reading its ancient stories and proverbs. Truth can be found there.
Jesus was much more than, "just this guy". Was Einstein "just this guy"? Indeed not. Jesus was very close to God. Jesus knew he is the son of God. Jesus understood the nature of God and of man. Jesus knew mankind's failings, and of our great potential. He knew all this and only wanted to share his wisdom with the world.Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyZ
Yeah, he wanted us to be nice to each other. To love one another as brothers and sisters. To love God with all our hearts.
If there was ever anyone in this old world, who loved us all with all their heart, it was Jesus. He proved that in so many ways. For me he proved it the most when he was on the cross. Even when he was suffering the horrible fate, he loved man so much that he offered comfort and forgiveness of sin to a thief who hung beside him. He asked God to forgive the very ones who put him there. I have never known of anyone so selfless and kind.
Yeah I know man I just like to make light of these situations. Everyone is so quick to get caught up in heated religious debate that any real meaning behind the teachings are lost.
But I think I'm on to something, because he was just a guy. I think that was the message he was trying to get across.. we are all just "guys" too, so we can do what he did. He just happened to be the exact opposite of everyone of his time.
Think about it man.. instead of hate, love. It's not hard. People just refuse to believe it can be that easy.
Jesus was God in the flesh. Scripture backs that. And the Bible is not a made up story. It's actually a history book. You must believe it with your whole heart or mine as well not believe at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by pepurr
Parts of the bible are indeed historic fact. Parts are allegory and meant to get across a message. Even Jesus used stories to convey meaning. Some times people had a hard time understanding the meaning.Quote:
Originally Posted by chris62008
Sorry chris, your intentions are suspect. Your credibility is void.
Do you believe Jesus Christ rose from the dead in the flesh?Quote:
Originally Posted by pepurr
How about Moses parting the Red Sea?
Just two of the stories in the book to help with the control of religoius cults.Quote:
Originally Posted by chris62008
It doesn't matter if I believe that. Some people told me he rose from the dead. Others said he didn't. Either way, the message of how we are to treat one another, and requard our brothers and sisters, is still valid.Quote:
Originally Posted by chris62008
I bet Jesus wouldn't be happy with people who tried to use the prospect of hell to get people to agree on such a small point. Jesus didn't live among us to condemn us on such a small matter. I guess I should be glad people aren't being burnt at the stake any more.
I agree with you there. I don't see why people always talk about evolution and creation like they're different things. i think it was a little of both.. like god created the makings of life, and single cell organisms evolved into intelligent life.Quote:
Originally Posted by bhouncy
Like the big bang theory. that must be the dumbest popular theory there is. It was made up to proove creation wrong but for it to work there would already have to be 1. space 2. time 3. matter 4. energy so the big bang theory is actually entirely dependent on creation.
People just like to argue. If one guy says one thing, some guy somewhere is always gonna jump up and say somethin opposing it. I doubt there are more than a couple theorys out there about anything that are anywhere near 100% true. cause for everything a person learns, there are a million things he never will. I mean never while hes alive...hopefully when we die we get to go up, chill with the big G, ask him all the questions we want, maybe even light one up with him. Like wouldnt it be awesome if you could be like "hey G, what happened when the first guy found out he could smoke weed?" and then see a movie of it. Im tired
there's no doubt (imo) that everything around us was created by an intelligence, intelligent design. to say that there is no God, and we're all just here because of an explosion in space is ludicrous. in order to believe that everything is just an accident is like saying, there was an explosion in space, (created by no one/nothing in particular) and like magic, a rolex watch appeared from that. do you really think that could ever happen? the things/life here on earth, are way more complicated than a watch. i think we're getting close to the end. the bible says that in the end days, knowledge will be increased, and man will really be into himself/beauty. i think our knowledge has increased dramatically. look back even 50 years! the change between then and now is extremely dramatic. look at the amount of television/magazine, etc. commercials, ads, that have to do with being a better/prettier you. it's like almost every other one.
I have to ask, by this same logic don't you have to assume that a being complicated enough to create all of this complication can't have happened by itself/himself/herself?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bongojaz
If your answer is yes god could have "just always been there". Then the answer and your justification for it works for the universe as well. Therefore, why not just cut out the middle man so to speak?
it's hard to wrap your mind around someone/something as complex as God. man thinks of himself as a pretty smart cookie. we think we've got it all figured out and can explain away so many things with our minute bit of knowledge. who was it, einstein who said, "we don't know 1/10th of one percent about anything?" i happen to believe he's right. most of our knowledge is based on theory. theory that we "made up" by the way!
It's hard to wrap your mind around the complexity of the Universe. Man does not have it all figured out. However, most of our knowledge is based on theories that have been rigorously and scientifically tested to try to prove them wrong. I could counter with the fact that believers think they have it all figured out. They have put their faith in the existence of god with no more proof for it than the mathematical theories currently trying to explain what we observe happening in our universe. They believe in a god. IMHO god was "made up".Quote:
Originally Posted by Bongojaz
I didn't ask you if you could wrap your mind around the complexity of god.
Let's use some simple logic here:
The universe had to be created because it is so complex.
God is complex.
God had to be created because he/she/it is so complex.
Using the complexity of the universe to prove the existence of a creator only opens the door to an infinity of creators. That's logic 101.
To deal with this, believers say "we can't understand god" or something to that effect. I say we can't understand the universe, however that doesn't prove the existence of a god anymore than the complex nature of the universe.
i, by no means, have anything figured out. i def have faith! but there are loads of ancient texts/documents that add credence to God. no one is digging up any ancient texts concerning theories like tectonic plates, the big bang theory or evolution etc. you have the right to believe/not believe anything you like, that's your right! but when your on an airplane, and that sucker is gonna crash, i wonder if you may not change your mind about God?Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueBlazer
For me ancient texts about god do not constitute proof of any kind. Seeing as how catapults and the math necessary to aim them was the height of technology when Christian texts were written, it is not surprising that there is no ancient references to tectonic plate theory, evolution, big bang, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bongojaz
I am happy for you that if you are in a imminent plane crash that your belief gives you comfort in your last moments. If I am ever in that situation I won't be changing my mind at the last minute "just in case".
I don't know what happens when I die. I am at peace with that. I did die by drowning when I was 16 and was resuscitated. Went swimming in a pond that was too cold and got hypothermia. All my muscles locked up and I sank like a stone. I remember clearly thinking, "this is it, I'm really going to die" and a feeling of peace came over me. I wasn't afraid to die. All these extra years of life have been very sweet and at my age, your mortality becomes more real every day. I love life and want to keep on living it, but I know that when the time comes I will face death with a peaceful mind.
I'm not out to change your mind. Just was pointing out the logical fallacy of the universe requiring a creator because it is so complex.
i hear ya blue. i've had a couple of those near death moments myself, and i'll honestly say, i wasn't thinking about God either. i attribute that to the fact that i was young and dumb and full of, well, you know...
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Originally Posted by chris62008
"god speaks the world into existence"
From your own bible.
The bible is not the word of gob, but the word of man.
The word of god is the world itself.
God's still talking, but idiots are too busy reading the word of man to listen to the word of god.
Spiritual + Physical = humanity.
Science is used to tell us that fire is hot and will hurt us.
Spirituality is used to tell us that we shouldnt harm others if we, ourselves, wish not to be harmed.
I can't wait to see what the creationists come up with to explain Neanderthal DNA being found in humans.
Maybe Satan put the DNA there, y'know to test our 'faith' :stoned:
Science is corrosive to religion (Dawkins has it right here) and religion is corrosive to science - I can't see the two coexisting. Natural selection is one of the best ideas that humans have ever come up with - ever.
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Originally Posted by Delta9 UK
We didnt come up with it; it came up with us! ;D hahaha...
I believe in both creation and natural selection/evolution.
Creation: you cant begin everything out of absolutely nothing. assuming that there was ever a beginning point, it had to have been a divine equation created to perpetuate autonomous evolution and natural selection.
Evolution: assuming everything has always existed and there was never a period of nothingness, nor will there ever be a period of nothingness, what is the equation, and how do we map it ourselves?
If we can evolve to comprehend the divine equation behind life, the universe, and everything (and it proves not to be 42) that would make US the creators of the universe.
Do you believe in an infinite, creative, reoccurring, multi-faceted omniverse?
An All Encompassing Infinitesimal Omniversal Universe?