My First Grow: Aeroponics, LED veg, Super HPS flower, CO2 sealed room

Procyon LED veg, Super HPS Flower, Aeroponic, General Hydroponics, CO2

Strains: Cinderella 99, Apollo 11, Blue Apollo, Sugar Blossoms, Sugar Berry, DJ Short's Blueberry (F2 from Joey Weed), C99 X A11, C99 X BB

All plants have been grown from seed and a mother will be selected for each strain, except for Cinderella 99 which will have 2 mother plants for the different phenotypes: grapefruit & pineapple. I plan on flowering & harvesting all other female plants that are not selected to be mothers.

For cloning, vegging & flowering I'm using Stinkbud's aero units, 4 flower units. The mothers will be maintained in a dutch bucket system. All systems have been self made.

This grow has been staggered into 3 groups - Group 1 being the oldest, group 2 the second oldest and group 3 the youngest.

Group 1 Strains: Cinderella 99

Group 2 Strains: Cinderella 99, C99 X A11, C99 X BB

Group 3 Strains: Apollo 11, Blue Apollo, Sugar Blossoms, Blueberry (DJ Short F2 via Joey Weed), Sugar Berry

Nutrients: Fed at half strength for vegetation under the LEDs & increased to full for flowering under 2 1000W Solarmax Super HPS using sealed, vented Magnum xxxl hoods.

General Hydroponics:
FloraGro
FloraMicro
FloraBloom
Diamond Nectar
Floralicious Plus
FloraNectar (Pineapple Rush!, FruitnFusion)
FloraBlend
Kool Bloom (Liquid)
Kool Bloom (Dry)
Subculture B
Subculture M
FloraKleen
FloraShield (as a problem fixer, not a mainstay)

& Botanicare CalMag Plus in case of Magnesium Deficiency

The desired end result is the cultivation of mothers from each strain and the creation of a perpetual harvest - every 2-3 weeks.

More info and pictures to follow

History up to present date:

6/26/2009: Germed 10 Cinderella 99 seeds (Group 1) using the paper towel method and a heating mat set to 80 F. Seeds were soaked in tap water for 24 hours previous to placements in the papertowels.

All seeds germed in under a week and were placed in rockwool cubes soaked in PH 5.5 water and placed under regular fluorescent lights.

Seedlings were watered about every other day for three weeks with PH adjusted 5.8 tap water with a fan blowing on them to strengthen stems.

Three weeks after germination the seedlings were placed in dutch buckets in two rows of 5 filled with hydroton and placed under a Procyon light. Nutrients were given at 1/2 strength. Plants began to show nutrient burn so the solution was cut back to 1/8 strength. It was gradually increased over the course of the next few weeks to 1/2 strength where it is as of this writing.

Group 1 was cloned for sex on 9/2/09 when they were 2 months old (8 weeks, 5 days). Two cuttings were taken from each plant and they were placed in the aerocloner unit under a row of 4 T5's set to 12/12 and placed about an inch away from the tops.

9/11/09 plants showed sex. 5 were female, 5 male. Of the females 2 stood out as stronger than the others. Cinderella 99 produces 2 phenotypes, a stockier bushier Pineapple phenotype and a longer, lankier Grapefruit pheno. The two strongest females were representative of each type (one pineapple, one grapefruit). I'm not 100% certain but the smoke report will tell. These two will likely be the mother plants for C99.

*Pictures to be added when able

Pineapple Phenotype: http://boards.cannabis.com/members/a...ely-mother.jpg http://boards.cannabis.com/members/a...9pineapple.jpg http://boards.cannabis.com/members/a...ks-9-26-09.jpg

Grapefruit phenotype: http://boards.cannabis.com/members/a...ely-mother.jpg http://boards.cannabis.com/members/a...grapefruit.jpg http://boards.cannabis.com/members/a...ruitcanopy.jpg

Cinderella 99 females 3 months as of this date Group 1: http://boards.cannabis.com/members/a...c99mothers.jpg http://boards.cannabis.com/members/a...ks-9-26-09.jpg

Group 2's strains are the remaining C99, C99 X A11 (Apollo 11), and C99 X BB (Blueberry)

Currently, they're in a 14 unit flowering aero/NFT chamber and I'm waiting for clones I've taken from some of them to show sex.

7/20/09: Seedlings germed and transplanted into conditioned rockwool cubes and placed under a fluorescent light. C99 X A11 had a germ rate pf 50%, C99: 90%, C99 X BB, 90%. Seedlings were fed PH adjusted (5.8) water for two weeks, but started to show signs of yellowing leaves far more drastically than the plants in Group 1 did so I introduced a light seedling mixture (as per General Hydroponics' online nutrient calculator: GENERAL HYDROPONICS) in the 3rd week. With the exception of adding nutrients in the 3rd week, seedlings were treated the same and subjected to the same conditions and environment as Group 1.

I have heard C99 takes up quite a bit of Magnesium and I've also heard that General Hydroponics is slightly deficient in Magnesium, hence my purchase of the CalMag+ which I've yet to use. My tap water also has a low PPM of 90 which makes me think I may have Magnesium issues in the future when the plants will be taking up more nutrients as they flower - I just hope I can spot it. Perhaps this early sign at 3 weeks of needing nutrients was due to the Magnesium issue, I'm not sure. I don't think the plants were overly weakened by it.

8/10/09: Plants now 3 weeks old and past the seedling stage. Plants were moved into 2" net pots and placed in 2 aeroponic flower units and situated under a Procyon. They were started on 1/4 strength mild growth solution of nutrients (again, as per the instructions from GH's nutrient calculator) - they handled it better than Group 1 which showed some mild nutrient tip burn/leaf edge curling and had to be titrated back all the way to 1/8 strength growth solution and kept there for quite a few weeks. Group 2 showed none of that and grew vigorously. After a week the solution was changed from 1/4 strength mild growth to 1/2 strength regular growth solution again as per the nutrient calculator. No bad reaction. The plants grew very well.

In the aero unit, the plants were put on a cycle timer which ultimately was set to pump nutrient solution for 1 minute and to switch off for 5 minutes before resuming for another cycle of 1 on and 5 off to run in this pattern continuously. In the early stages I was a little unnecessarily over-protective and ran the timer at varying times with longer periods off and shorter ones on, gradually working up to 1 on/ 5 off over the course of a month, until lots of roots showed. I did this because was afraid of saturating the rockwool and drowning the plants. I also put coco liner in the net pots to help act as a barrier and help prevent over-saturation. As you'll see later on with Group 3, this was totally unnecessary and, I think, may have slowed root/plant growth, but not in a way that caused permanent damage, just in a way that caused me some extra stress & worry. Group 3 were put on a 1 min ON/ 5 min OFF immediately and showed no adverse effects - I think they grew faster than Group 2 did during the time I had them on a longer dry out/ shorter watering schedule.

I should note here that in the following weeks plants really started to distinguish themselves. Those that were healthy & strong grew healthier & stronger whereas the weaker plants mostly fell to the wayside. I noticed this with Group 1, but having more plants this time around really brought the point across. I understand why it is generally recommended to pick only a few plants and focus on them. In general, the C99 X A11 seems to be the most sensitive of the three to changes with the C99 X BB the darkest & hardiest (and the one with the most scent - although none of these are high odor). C99 X BB produced a smell in the room which caused me to buy some ONA; before, with Group 1 there was no smell. The ONA cleared up the situation.

These pics were taken standing in front of the reservoir (see Key in following post):

http://boards.cannabis.com/members/a...trong-ones.jpghttp://boards.cannabis.com/members/a...-reservoir.jpghttp://boards.cannabis.com/members/a...ks-day-old.jpg

8/22/09: As I mentioned before, the plants that were strongest really started to stick out so I weeded out the ones that looked weakest leaving me with 4 C99 X A11, 7 C99, and 8 C99 X BB.

The plants were moved into a vegetation unit for logistical & space reasons. Group 2 is now 31 days old (4 weeks, 3 days).

9/11/09: Group 2 was moved from it's Veg unit into a Flower Unit & thinned further. The final tally being 4 C99 X A11, 7 C99 X BB and 3 C99 (less one more just recently as it was a male). Group 2 now 7 weeks and 4 days old (35 days total).

9/17/09: All plants that I was able to take a cutting from were cloned for sex. 2 cuttings were taken from each plant as usual. The cloning process was the same as Group 1. I was not able to take cuttings from all as some plants were too small - like I said before - the weak ones seem to be very weak and the strong very strong.

9/25/09: Cinderella 'Bravo' showed sex - male. It was chopped & it remains put with the other males of Group 1 in a brown paper bag of clippings for has later.

9/29/09: Changed Group 2's reservoir and gave them a 3/4 strength solution of Growth formula, I'm upping the does to find the "sweet spot" - the right amount of nutrients for the plants. I'll be watching them very closely for any signs of nutrient burn or stress. Group 2 is now 2 months, 1 week and 2 days old (10 weeks on the dot) or (70 days old).

If the plants I wasn't able to take clones from due to their small size don't grow any further, and I get some confirmed females from the ones I could clone - I may just chop them instead of flowering them out.

That just about brings Group 2 up to date.

General grow note: Although usually not mentioned unless there is a change in nutrient solution made, reservoirs are changed every 2 - 3 weeks and cleaned, in between times PH is adjusted, PPM is tested and adjusted as needed and reservoirs are topped off when needed with PH adjusted water.

I'm keeping & flowering out all females that look like they'd be worth flowering, even if the yield isn't going to be tremendous just because of the investment already placed in the plants up until now and to get some practice.

*Note: With LEDs - at least these Procyon LEDs and in my particular experience, if they come closer than 24" to the canopy the plants start to exhibit signs of heat stress in the form of twisting their leaves and making "ram's horns" to escape the light. This doesn't seem to have left any permanent damage and always subsides when the light is raised.

**Note: During flower I will be adding 4 48" UVB bulbs (10.0 Reptisun) to the grow as I'm using the Magnum xxxl sealed hoods which has glass that blocks much of the blue/UV end of the spectrum. The UVB will be run for 5 hours every day (with a kill switch on the outside of the room right next to the entrance because hey, who wants skin cancer?) and will be kept at a distance of at least 20" from the plants so as not to damage them. I'm adding the UVB b/c it aids in the production of flavonoids, trichomes, etc as a protective mechanism by the plant. Also I've read many reports of people saying that their bud is more potent with the addition of UVB.

Group 2 Key:

This is the lay out of plants in the flower unit so you can easily identify them when I post pictures. Now that Cinderella 'Bravo" has been chopped, orienting where everything is will be much easier.

[align=center]Bc Ca

Bd Ba

Bf Bb

Bg Aa

Bh Ab

Cb Ac

Cc Ad

Reservoir
[/align]
Facing the reservoir on this unit's right is Group 1 in the dutch bucket system, to it's left is a wall of visqueen plastic and behind the unit is Group 3.


*Note - Cb (Cinderella 'Bravo') was a male and was chopped at the time the pictures were taken - so that should help.


Strain Key:

C99 X A11 = A

C99 X BB = B

Cinderella 99 = C

Individual Plant identifiers:

a = 'alpha'

b = 'bravo'

c = 'charlie'

d = 'delta'

e = 'echo'

f = 'foxtrot'

g = 'golf'

h = 'hotel'

All strain names are in capital letters - the unique identifiers (their "names") assigned to each plant are in small caps.

Strain always precedes individual name.

So Aa is C99 X A11 'alpha', Bg is C99 X Blueberry 'golf' and Cb is C99 'Bravo' - the one that got snipped.

As you can see, I'm using the phonetic alphabet. The benefits of doing that don't quite translate here in written form, but it's just easier and less error prone to do it this way. For example:

(Person in Veg room checking clones, shouts) "Hey, B's a male - chop it."

(Person in flower room with the snippers) "E's male?"

"B!"

"C?"

"B!!!"

"Okay, I heard you, you don't have to shout. D it is." <chop> Whoops.

I know it's only an off chance happening and maybe I'm just being over cautious, but people are less likely to mishear 'Charlie' and confuse it with 'Foxtrot' for example. That and the fact these plants are so nursed and fretted over (I've noticed I have a certain affection and pride for them as well) - they've become something like a pet and a pet deserves a name, don't you think?

http://boards.cannabis.com/members/a...-reservoir.jpg http://boards.cannabis.com/members/a...p-2-canopy.jpg

http://boards.cannabis.com/members/a...58-group-2.jpg http://boards.cannabis.com/members/a...erspective.jpg

A note on measuring Lux/Foot Candles with LEDs. When measuring what is the proper amount of light for plants using LEDs, your number will be necessarily lower than if you were measuring with a less restricted spectrum light source. To find the optimum level without any adverse effects but still providing maximum light energy, I placed my light meter at the top of the canopy of Group 1 where the leaves were thriving & healthy - any closer and they exhibit heat stress/light overload. As plants get older, it seems they are more able to withstand closer distances.

The tops of the canopy of Group 1 produced a range of 8500 Lux - 9000 Lux. As they are the oldest they are able to tolerate more light.

For Group 2 , the light distance was adjusted to be closer by a few inches and the light was made more even. Initial readings were in the range of 2000 Lux - 5000 Lux, decreasing as it neared the edges. New readings after adjustment were 3500's - 6000 Lux. The light was considerably improved in terms of evenness and intensity.

Group 3, Units 1 & 2 had the Procyon height adjusted closer and had initial readings ranging from 1500 - 5000 Lux. After adjustment the range was high 2000 - 5000 Lux. Unit 3 as put under 3 T5 lights at a distance of 1 inch away.

It's a lot of trial and error and not much consistency to go by as the plants do tolerate more light as they age. Your only guide is the approximate height given by the manufacturer (24" - 36" with the Procyons which has proven true) and watching for inverted leaves. However the values I have gathered seem to be where the plants absorb the most light without getting heat stressed.

Hi Apollonia,

First let me say what a very nice grow you have going there. Looks like you put a lot of time and effort, and probably a lot of research and thinking into building a very nice aero system. Nice work! :thumbsup:

I also mark my plants when I'm growing out larger plants but I put a plastic nursery tag around the stalks, and that follows the plant right thru trimming.
You are absolutely right about trying to avoid confusion, I go so far as color coded 5 gallon jugs we mix nutrients in. I use blue for grow nutes, red for bloom nutes, white for RO water and yellow as a waste jug. (I do aero/fog to waste) Nobody gets an excuse (not even me) for using the wrong item at the right time.

I had a pair of Procyon's for almost a year doing veg and mothers, mounted on a light rail and they worked extremely well. Like you point out the height above the canopy makes a big difference in performance, too close and you can stop growth and too hi creates weak plants that stretch. But get that sweet spot and the coverage vs. penertration is good. I also love that you are quantifing the light levels, that is a very nice touch.

Continued success and good growing.
:)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by oldmac

Hi Apollonia,

First let me say what a very nice grow you have going there. Looks like you put a lot of time and effort, and probably a lot of research and thinking into building a very nice aero system. Nice work! :thumbsup:

I also mark my plants when I'm growing out larger plants but I put a plastic nursery tag around the stalks, and that follows the plant right thru trimming.
You are absolutely right about trying to avoid confusion, I go so far as color coded 5 gallon jugs we mix nutrients in. I use blue for grow nutes, red for bloom nutes, white for RO water and yellow as a waste jug. (I do aero/fog to waste) Nobody gets an excuse (not even me) for using the wrong item at the right time.

I had a pair of Procyon's for almost a year doing veg and mothers, mounted on a light rail and they worked extremely well. Like you point out the height above the canopy makes a big difference in performance, too close and you can stop growth and too hi creates weak plants that stretch. But get that sweet spot and the coverage vs. penertration is good. I also love that you are quantifing the light levels, that is a very nice touch.

Continued success and good growing.
:)

---

Hey there OM! So glad you stopped by - I've been reading your posts before I even joined the site, I'm honored to have you here.

Yeah, I'm an animal with research. I don't think anyone with no real prior experience (me) would have a chance of pulling off a grow like this with all these separate, unknown & difficult elements unless they put a ton of research and preparation into every little aspect and know their shit backwards & forwards and even then they'd have to keep observant as the plans hit reality. Outside the research I've done, a few simple backyard vegetable/flower plantings is the extent of my growing experience. I never even used hydroponics before this - but I take this seriously and I am going to try to make the very best of what I have.

About the Procyons - I plan on trying to get more & better numbers/data on the light readings as I haven't seen anything like that out there really. Well I've seen it at greenpinelane.com but again, he's growing cherry tomatoes.

I'm happy with what my lights are doing for me - to my untrained eye, the plants look very healthy & green and I think they look like they're in near optimal health (please, anyone, give me your opinion on this esp if you think I'm wrong). I credit this to the fact that heat isn't an issue and the LED is a "gentler" light in ways, plants grow a little different under them - it's a very subtle thing, but I've noticed they're a different shade of green - more yellow-green than the gray-green you get under an HID. There's also less of a sheen on plants grown under LEDs which I believe means they are not building up protective wax (not the proper term, I know) on their leaves to block intensity & certain frequencies that can "damage" them - but this is all conjecture from me.

I'd say the "worst" thing about my LEDs is the penetration issue - it goes not much farther down than 3 feet - but I have heard HID isn't that much more effective after 3 feet either so, not a biggie. I'm not growing anything I want to get larger than 3 ft anyway. If I may ask, why did you stop using your Procyons? Do you remember where the "sweet spot" was above the canopy for you? What would you say the biggest difference is in terms of Procyon veg/growth vs. HID grown plants?

It's funny - categorizing/organizing the nutes, the plants, etc is one of my favorite things to do. Maybe weird, maybe a little OCD, whatever, I'm happy. I like to color code too. There's something satisfying about the process. Plus I think I'd lose it if I were confronted with 50 odd "mystery" plants of indeterminate parentage/strain b/c they weren't properly labeled.

I thought I'd included this in my grow description but if not, now's a good time to say it. My system is largely modeled after Stinkbud's generously provided plans. Just giving the credit where it is due - the only reason my grow is where it is is b/c I get the privilege of standing on the shoulders of giants who came before me and slogged it out for the first time, like you & Stink & everyone else on these forums who made their own additions to this huge community resource. So I'd just like to take a little break in the journal to acknowledge all those folks - I am sincerely grateful. Now let me stop myself before this gets too shmaltzy & I start thanking my parents & god like it's the Academy Awards. :D

I come across a lot of people dying to get their hands on some C99, since it is one of the plants in my grow, I thought I'd provide current links to places that are selling C99 seeds.

I found 2 reputable, solid sites currently offering C99 if anyone is interested:

Marijuana Cannabis seeds at Hemp Depot Shipped Worldwide

Actual C99 Cinderella Weed Seeds - Hanfsamen - Pot Seeds ââ?¬â?? Feminized - Cannabis Strain ââ?¬â?? Marihuanasamen ââ?¬â?? Cannabissamen ââ?¬â?? Hempseeds ââ?¬â?? Hanfshop

I've done business with Hemp Depot & I'm growing Joey Weed seeds so i can personally vouch for them and their products. If anyone cares, the C99 I'm growing now was available through Hemp Depot as a limited run offer from Kingdom seed company however all the other plants I'm growing are from Joey Weed and can be found at the link provided. The second website & company,

Hempy & Actual Seeds appear to be legit w/many posts reporting having ordered successfully from them, also Actual Seeds gave an interested buyer excellent feedback about the Cinderella 99 they're offering.

I'd say both are very solid options.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Apollonia

About the Procyons - I plan on trying to get more & better numbers/data on the light readings as I haven't seen anything like that out there really. Well I've seen it at greenpinelane.com but again, he's growing cherry tomatoes.

I'm happy with what my lights are doing for me - to my untrained eye, the plants look very healthy & green and I think they look like they're in near optimal health (please, anyone, give me your opinion on this esp if you think I'm wrong). I credit this to the fact that heat isn't an issue and the LED is a "gentler" light in ways, plants grow a little different under them - it's a very subtle thing, but I've noticed they're a different shade of green - more yellow-green than the gray-green you get under an HID. There's also less of a sheen on plants grown under LEDs which I believe means they are not building up protective wax (not the proper term, I know) on their leaves to block intensity & certain frequencies that can "damage" them - but this is all conjecture from me.

I'd say the "worst" thing about my LEDs is the penetration issue - it goes not much farther down than 3 feet - but I have heard HID isn't that much more effective after 3 feet either so, not a biggie. I'm not growing anything I want to get larger than 3 ft anyway. If I may ask, why did you stop using your Procyons? Do you remember where the "sweet spot" was above the canopy for you? What would you say the biggest difference is in terms of Procyon veg/growth vs. HID grown plants?

---

A favorite subject, those Procyon's. I think you are being a little generous saying 3' penertration, I've found 2'+, not quite to 3'. I got 2 when they where first introduced to use in my mom/veg room. They did a good job tho I did put them on a light rail and found that helped with penertration, when they move the angle of the light to the plant changes constantly. Parts shadowed get un-shadowed in a few moments. I never considered them for flowering till I saw SnStealth's (1/2 of which is WhiskeyTango) grow log. The only reason I stopped using them is I sold them (I needed money bad last year) as part of a small aero grow tray set-up in a tent for a group setting up a small mmj grow. They have worked very well for them, and are growing from cuts to finish with the Procyons' plus a small amount of supplemental light.

I found that 18" above the mom's kept them from growing upwards and kept them bushy while 24" above plants vegging worked well for growth vs. node spacing. The biggest difference I guess is the color of the plants (but you need to move them under some different light to notice). I found I could control the growth better with the Procyon's then with the MH, simply by adjusting hgt up or down. That might just be a product of the MHs having more "oomph" or the ability of the Procyon's to get closer but either way the Pro's worked better.

Keep up the nice work, good growing to you.
:D oldmac

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by oldmac

A favorite subject, those Procyon's. I think you are being a little generous saying 3' penertration, I've found 2'+, not quite to 3'.

---

You know, you're right on that - I eyeballed it to 3' (and the manufacturer says 3' - which is likely to be the more generous assumption) but I'd like to agree with you here and say yes - esp with MJ, you're getting 2'+ penetration from the Procyon. Thanks for bringing that up - I'm not usually that sloppy.

Also, thank you for the info on plant height control and Procyon distance - I'm adjusting mine now as per your instructions. I'd like to +rep ya for it... but I can't find the little button on your post to do it. :wtf:

Group 3 is the youngest and final group.

Strains: Apollo 11, Blueberry, Sugar Blossoms, Sugar Berry, Blue Apollo

8/19/09: Seeds Germed. Transplanted into conditioned RW cubes - all done exactly as before with groups 1 & 2. Very good rate of germination - lowest rate was 80% (Sugar Blossoms & Blueberry). Germ rate 90% (Blue Apollo). Germ Rate 100% (Sugar Berry, Apollo 11).

9/02/09: Seedlings given light seedling nutrient mixture mentioned before for the 3rd week of seedling stage.

9/09/09: End of Seedling stage. Plants now 3 weeks old. Transplanted into a Veg unit & a cloner unit. Both units had a cloner lids (23 spaces for plants) instead of veg unit lids (17 spaces). Plants were given 1/2 strength growth solution and placed under a single Procyon 100.

http://boards.cannabis.com/members/a...lue-apollo.jpg
Group 3 Unit 1 (Blue Apollo, Sugar Blossoms, Apollo 11)

http://boards.cannabis.com/members/a...-blueberry.jpg
Group 3 Unit 2 (Sugar Berry, Blueberry, Apollo 11)

http://boards.cannabis.com/members/a...ing-canopy.jpghttp://boards.cannabis.com/members/a...tical-shot.jpg

9/30/09: 6 weeks old. Plants were spread out into 3 units. Unit 1 containing Blue Apollo & Apollo 11, Unit 2: Sugar Berry & Apollo 11, & Unit 3: Blueberry & Sugar Blossoms. This should prevent some of the smaller plants getting crowded out (Blueberry, Sugar Blossoms) and provide better air circulation and access to light over all.

Plants BEFORE transfer into 3 units, 6 weeks:
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/a...lue-apollo.jpg

Group 3 Unit 1 BEFORE transplant, canopy & vertical shot:
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/a...llo-canopy.jpghttp://boards.cannabis.com/members/a...lue-apollo.jpg

Group 3 Unit 2 BEFORE transplant, canopy & vertical shot:
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/a...py-6-weeks.jpghttp://boards.cannabis.com/members/a...ugar-berry.jpg

Group 3 AFTER Transfer into 3 Units:

http://boards.cannabis.com/members/a...more-light.jpg
Unit 1: back left (Blue Apollo & Apollo 11) Unit 2: back right (Sugar Berry & Apollo 11) Unit 3: front (Sugar Blossoms & Blueberry)

Group 3, Unit 1 AFTER transfer:
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/a...-back-rows.jpg

Group 3, Unit 2 AFTER transfer:
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/a...-back-rows.jpg

Group 3, Unit 3 AFTER transfer:
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/a...more-light.jpg

10/03/09: Unit 3 was put under 3 T5 lights at a distance of 1" from the canopy. Units 1 & 2 were left under the Procyon but adjusted to a shorter distance.

Here is the layout of the strains in Group 3, first BEFORE the transfer from 2 units to 3:

Unit 1 (Blue Apollo, Sugar Blossom, Apollo 11):

[align=center]BA BA BA BA BA

BA BA BA BA

SBL SBL SBL SBL SBL

SBL SBL SBL SBL

A11 A11 A11 A11 A11

front[/align]

Apollo 11 = A11
Sugar Blossoms = SBL
Blue Apollo = BA

Unit 2 (Sugar Berry, Blueberry, Apollo 11):

[align=center]SB SB SB SB SB

BB BB BB BB

SB SB SB SB SB

BB BB BB BB

A11 A11 A11 A11 A11

front[/align]

Apollo 11 = A11
Blueberry = BB
Sugar Berry = SB

Key to Units AFTER transfer into 3 units:

*Strain Key is same as above

Unit 1 (Blue Apollo & Apollo 11):

[align=center]BA BA BA BA BA

X X X X

BA BA X BA BA

X X X X

A11 A11 A11 A11 A11

front[/align]

Unit 2 (Sugar Berry & Apollo 11):

[align=center]SB SB SB SB SB

X X X X

SB SB SB SB SB

X X X X

A11 A11 A11 A11 A11

front[/align]

Unit 3 (Sugar Blossoms & Blueberry):

[align=center]BB BB BB BB

SBL SBL SBL

BB BB BB BB

SBL SBL SBL

SBL X SBL X

front[/align]

Most, a good 80%, of the Blueberry seedlings I've sprouted show deformities such as variegated leaves & stunted growth ranging from moderate to severe. I know that comes with the territory when dealing with blue strains and especially DJ Short's famous Blueberry. I feel like I should pull them as they're hopeless, but I keep them b/c if I pulled the ones that were deformed it would leave me with only 2 plants at the most. I've heard that it can take a few tries with several packets of seeds to get a good blueberry mother. As of now, that is the strain that is most in danger of not producing a viable mother plant.

Examples of the deformed leaves:
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/a...ore-normal.jpghttp://boards.cannabis.com/members/a...rry-plants.jpghttp://boards.cannabis.com/members/a...mon-strain.jpg

All the blueberries together:
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/a...ts-6-weeks.jpg

The clones have sexed and I now know which mothers I want from groups 1 & 2:

C99 - 'Grapefruit'
C99 - 'Pineapple'
A11 X C99 'Alpha'
C99 X BB 'Bravo'

Everything has been in the flower room with the exception of one cloner used to sex the plants - that's in the veg room. My plan is to hang the veg lights (Procyons, any T5s I may want) in the veg room, move Group 3 there and take cuttings from the mothers in groups 1 & 2 to clone and ultimately use as mothers. These clones (2 for each mother) are to be placed in rockwool cubes for ease of transplant into the dutch buckets & put into the cloner unit where if all goes well they will sprout roots & be transfered into the permanent home of the mothers: the dutch bucket system.

There's a ton of construction that must be done - manifolds for the chiller/icebox units, hanging the ducting, the HPS lights, etc. but it should not take too long before "Phase Two" will be up and running. Right now It's about making some space in the flower room, getting clones that will eventually serve as mother plants and setting up the veg room. Stay tuned.

Plants as of 10/05/09:
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/a...eeks-1-day.jpg
Group 1 - notice the plant removed for small size. Plants are now 14 weeks & 3 days old.

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Group 2 - smaller plants were also removed here. Plants are 11 weeks old.

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Group 3 Units 1 & 2. Plants are 6 weeks, 5 days old.

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Group 3 Unit 3. Plants are 6 weeks, 5 days old.

Here are some pictures and some info about where the plants are as of today.

Group 1 is now 15 weeks + 1 day old (3 1/2 months). Mother plants 'Grapefruit' & 'Pineapple' are looking bushy and healthy. I removed one plant from the system that was between the two as it was very, very small and not worth flowering in my opinion.

Group 2 is 11 weeks + 5 days old (2 1/2 months). As you can see, several plants have been culled: A 'delta', B 'delta', B 'golf', C 'alpha', C 'bravo', C 'charlie'. Again b/c they were just too small to even consider flowering out (or they sexed male). Plants that are female are: A 'alpha', A 'bravo', B 'bravo', B 'foxtrot'. The others are likely females - but have taken a while to sex and the plants I wanted most as mothers have proven to be female. Group 2's mothers are A 'alpha' & B 'bravo'. They stand out heads and shoulders above the rest. The others will be kept to flower out, the new Key for Group 2 no looks like this:
[align=center]
Bc X

X Ba

Be Bb*

Bf Aa*

X Ab

X Ac

X X

reservoir
[/align]
* connotes the plants slated to be used as mother plants.

Group 3 is 7 weeks + 3 days old (1 3/4 months) and shooting us like, well, weeds. The deformed blueberries have not improved, however there are about 3 acceptable specimens in the group. This group is to be moved into the veg room while the other 2 groups (1 & 2) will be kept in the flower room & flowered out very shortly. They are too young to take cuttings from to sex them just yet & I may need to move them into flower units to give them more space to grow. I should mention that in addition to spacing them out to 3 units, group 3, unit 3 was put under 3 T5s on 10/3/09 and appears not to have suffered for it & is thriving.

Here is a last look at the plants as they are in the flower room:

http://boards.cannabis.com/members/a...4-days-old.jpg
Group 1: 15 weeks, 4 days.

http://boards.cannabis.com/members/a...eks-6-days.jpg
Group 2: 11 weeks, 6 days.

http://boards.cannabis.com/members/a...eks-4-days.jpg
Group 3 Units 1 & 2: 7 weeks, 4 days.

http://boards.cannabis.com/members/a...eks-4-days.jpg
Group 3 Unit 3: 7 weeks, 4 days.

Looking vey nice Apollonia! :thumbsup: And again I compliment you on your organizational skills. Very well done.

As to your leaf deformities with your Blueberries', I ususally refer to plants like that as " 'tards" (not pc correct I know) and they can be surprising sometimes. If they are real runts, I'll trash them. But if they come out of my clonner with good healthy roots and are growing, I just put them into flower. Keep in mind that in both of my grows I never veg very long, usually 7-10 days, tho there are some exceptions like making future moms. Sometimes these 'tards form picture perfect buds other times they are slightly deformed or undersize but I gave them a fair shot at life.:D

Continued good growing and success to you.
:)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by oldmac

Looking vey nice Apollonia! :thumbsup: And again I compliment you on your organizational skills. Very well done.

As to your leaf deformities with your Blueberries', I ususally refer to plants like that as " 'tards" (not pc correct I know) and they can be surprising sometimes. If they are real runts, I'll trash them. But if they come out of my clonner with good healthy roots and are growing, I just put them into flower. Keep in mind that in both of my grows I never veg very long, usually 7-10 days, tho there are some exceptions like making future moms. Sometimes these 'tards form picture perfect buds other times they are slightly deformed or undersize but I gave them a fair shot at life.:D

Continued good growing and success to you.
:)

---

You nailed it, without being seriously organized, let's just say this would not be possible for me to do at all!

The messed up plants - they're VERY runty as in still only showing 1-2 sets of leaves and 2 1/2 inches tall compared to their siblings which are 6 inches tightly stacked with several nodes. I'm keeping them around just out of curiosity and like you said - it's more bud than you would have if you didn't flower them! Have you personally noticed if these 'tard plants (and their growth is retarded, so it's technically correct, right?) are more common under certain conditions or with certain strains? I'm just going to remove the really ridiculously small ones, like the 2 inchers - I'm not even sure they're going to survive long. I tried to take a picture for you, but it wasn't showing up so good against all the other greenery. Good to hear from you again as always, OM!

10/18/09 Update:

Begin flowering of Groups 1 & 2:

The flower room has been set-up in it's final form with three exceptions - I'm using a portable air-conditioner as a dehumidifier, as my little dehumidifier has not arrived yet. Two: the icebox cooler is now attached to the can filter instead of to the vented hood system where it will ultimately go - as the lights are being cooled by drawing cool air from outside the house, I thought this was a better use of the icebox. Three: The second lighting set up hasn't been hung yet as it is not needed at the moment.

The 1/3 HP chiller is running, cooling the 50 gallon reservoir which contain 2 pumps: one 1800 GPH MagDrive Pump directing water to the Co2 generator & the icebox (soon to be iceboxes) and a 1200 GPH MagDrive Pump directing water to the chiller. The Co2 maintains a constant concentration of 1500 parts per million per cubic square foot of Co2 during the day time & shuts off at night. There is also a kill switch attached to the UVB light circuit located outside the grow room so I need not expose myself to excessive UVB. There are circulating fans about to circulate the Co2 - the Can fan also pulls air up from the floor (Co2 is heavy & tends to sink) & jets it up into the air.

http://boards.cannabis.com/members/a...ut-chiller.jpg

The light for this area of space is one 1000 Watt Super HPS Solarmax confined in a Magnum xxxl 6" vented hood, flanked on one side by a Procyon and on both sides by a 3 foot UVB bulb which are about 25" - 30" away from the canopy - the UVB only goes on for 5 hours each day. I will be monitoring the effects of the UVB on the foliage to avert possible damages.

http://boards.cannabis.com/members/a...nce-plants.jpg

Both reservoirs for Groups 1 & 2 were changed & a full strength Transitional Expert Recirculating formula of 10 gallons each was added to the reservoir - PH adjusted to be around 5.5 - 5.8 (my PH pen which was supposed to be a replacement for my first defective PH pen has proved to be, well unreliable to say the least & I'm back to the color dropper method). I added a root drench of 1/4 strength SubCulture M to all the plants by pouring the mixture directly onto their roots & into their pots as was suggested by the makers of the product. I'm giving the mycorrhizal fungi a week's head start to establish themselves as the bacteria in SubCulture B can out compete them if added to the system at the same time as the fungi. The SubCulture B will be added next week. Bio balls, 45 in each reservoir have been added to provide access to oxygen & surface area for the beneficial micro-organisms to live on - this will also prevent the beneficial bacteria & fungi from forming a thick, clear slime on the surface of the water which has the potential to clog the sprayers and the pumps. Signs of clogging or over-population will be monitored closely.

The plants in Groups 1 & 2, with the mothers being selected, cloned & the clones showing signs of viability, plus the plants getting rather large were put into 12/12 on 10/18/09. Group 1 was 4 months, 3 weeks old (16 weeks & 1 day) at the time of flowering. Group 2 was 2 months, 3 weeks, 5 days old (12 weeks 5 days).

http://boards.cannabis.com/members/a...eks-6-days.jpg

Group 1:
To deal with height issues, I've applied several techniques: the Group 1 mothers are large and quite thick stemmed - too thick to bend. For now, I'm training the Procyon on them in the hopes the added blue wavelength will retard stretching. As they begin to grow & stretch, I plan on first bending down the side branches and if possible, slowly & incrementally bend/ or very lightly break the main stem to get the plant to grow in a more horizontal fashion. As a last resort - I may have to top them. I'm considering doing it now, but would rather take my chances & hopefully not have to do it. As it stands now, they are about 1 foot away from the glass of the vented hood. The other 2 plants in Group 1 were flexible enough that I was able to bend them nearly to container level. I had not anticipated using LST or other training/ bending methods - so this should be interesting - I'm excited to see what comes of it.

Group 2:
The plants in Group 2, being younger than the plants in Group 1 were more flexible and bent far easier - with some bending right down to the "ground." The larger, less flexible plants have been tilted horizontally and had their branches tied down. One plant I decided to try a more severe training method on - I bent the meristem until it broke - it did not separate from the plant, it just became pliable, I trained this in the direction I wanted to it go & waited to see if it would survive - low and behold it did! The plant remained in the position I put it in and the top, the area above the break continued to grow and turn up towards the light in 2 days. As the flowering of the plants grown from seed is a secondary grow to the establishment of the perpetual grow system, I'm taking this opportunity to try some things that are challenging.

Example of the LST/bending I've been doing on Groups 1 & 2:

http://boards.cannabis.com/members/a...ht-control.jpg

There are still some plants in Group 2 whose sex is undetermined - they will be watched closely & males will obviously be removed quickly.

Note - I was told you cannot remove plants from the flower units as their remaining dead roots will cause the remaining plants to die - so far this had not happened. I've removed as much of the roots as possible, but the washing action of the water flow may be removing the remaining dead roots where they are eventually fished out & removed from the reservoir which would explain the lack of problems from the removal of plants.

I should also mention here that I've had issues with roots hanging out of the end of the flower chamber - I just hack these off with scissors - the plants don't seem to mind at all. I've done the same thing with roots in the veg units & cloners that have grown too long or wrapped themselves around the sprayer apparatus - as they are long thick taproots & plentiful, the plants do not seem to mind.

All in all, this week or phase has a few unknowns and things that could go either way - this should be the beginning of an interesting part of the grow. It doesn't show in my notes - but I am seriously running around excited & happy!

10/18/09

My gamble on mycorrhizae

This scenario applies to all beneficial organisms I will add and have already added. The Floralicious Plus contains beneficial bacteria and has caused no problems yet, but it is nowhere near as concentrated as SubCulture M or SubCulture B. The SubCulture M & B may prove to be either a nightmare, a blessing or a nothing.

Nightmare scenario: the mycorrhizae fungi & the beneficial bacteria explode in numbers clogging my sprayers & possibly clogging my pumps. The Bio balls prove inadequate in containing them and they form a thick slime on the surface of the water in the reservoir. Removing them by cleaning the system proves to be extremely difficult as they are stubborn, microscopic & get into and on every little part of your apparatus. Alternate nightmare scenario: the mycorrhizae & beneficial bacteria don't survive or are too small in number & enemy pathogens collect on the root system harming & possibly killing my plants.

Blessing scenario: The mycorrhizae & beneficial bacteria establish themselves on my plants roots, protecting them from enemy pathogens, aid in nutrient uptake which lead to overall better plant health, less use of nutrients & bigger buds w/o over reproducing themselves & sliming my system. They contain themselves to the root system & the bio balls I've provided in the reservoirs.

Nothing scenario: The mycorrhizae & beneficial bacteria don't survive and no enemy pathogens take hold. Or the mycorrhizae & bacteria do survive, but are too insignificant in number to substantially effect the health of the plants. Or the beneficials establish themselves just fine, but due to various reasons, perhaps the type of nutrients I'm using or the systems I'm running (aeroponic/NFT & Hydroton in dutch buckets), they provide no observable benefit.

Why I chose to do what I did:

I decided to inoculate my plant's root system with a root drench of SubCulture M at quarter strength b/c of several reasons. One being I had added a carbohydrate supplement, FloraNectar: Pineapple Rush!, and felt insecure leaving it to chance that the bad bacteria & pathogens could use this as an ideal breeding ground with a plentiful food source. My thinking being that the mycorrhizae would at least protect the plants from harm by establishing themselves before the bad guys had a chance to establish themselves.

I chose to do it at quarter strength b/c that was recommended to me by more than one user of mycorrhizal fungi, but in particular a poster by the name of Rocky Mtn Squid, who has used mycorrhizae in his aeroponic system & was kind enough to give me the lowdown on his experience and what to expect. You can always add more, it's more difficult to reduce what's already been added.

In addition to all this I thought about my system - many people use highly oxygenated DWC systems which can "super-charge" beneficial organisms causing them to sometimes become more of a hinderance than a help. My thinking is I do not have aerated reservoirs, the oxygen the organisms have available to them comes from 2 primary places - for the beneficial bacteria it's primarily on the bio balls that float on the surface of the reservoir, for the mycorrhizal fungi, it's on the plant roots themselves & in the aerated sprays of water. I'm hoping this relatively limited amount of oxygen access will curb population size to a manageable levels.

Finally, if I have this dialed in right there are some pretty strong benefits to having these little guys around I refer you to this study which rather impressed me on the benefits of adding SubCulture to your grow: SubCulture Report
So, if ll goes well - this could be a big benefit to my system. If not, I'll clear it out with some FloraShield.

10/18/09 Update of the other units:

http://boards.cannabis.com/members/a...-all-units.jpg

Group 3 in the flowering chamber, Blue Apollo, Apollo 11, Sugar Berry. Plants are 8 weeks, 4 days:
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Group 3 Veg Unit 1: Blue Apollo, Apollo 11, Sugar Berry. Plants are 8 weeks, 4 days:
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/a...-days-date.jpg

Group 3 Veg Unit 2: Sugar Blossoms & Blueberry. Plants are 8 weeks 4 days:
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/a...-days-date.jpg

Here are some pictures of the plants in Group 3 not in flower. I as able to take 23 clones from them which are now in the flower room to determine sex.

I've already decided on my Blueberry mom & my Sugar Blossom mom if they turn out to be girls. Apologies in advance as I found I was unable to rotate the leaf pictures.

http://boards.cannabis.com/members/a...-days-here.jpg

http://boards.cannabis.com/members/a...-hand-leaf.jpg

The Sugar Blossom is a beautiful, tightly stacked plant with fan leaves larger than my hand! She's a beautiful indica pheno - she's actually a 50/50 indica-sativa mix. She's also a delightful yellow-green with long, strong, plentiful roots like her Blueberry counterpart. Very uniform phenotype, and there were many perfectly good girls to choose from, again - praised be Joey of Joey Weed!

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http://boards.cannabis.com/members/a...-days-date.jpg

http://boards.cannabis.com/members/a...-hand-leaf.jpg

The Blueberry - after all the runts, I had resigned myself to either not getting a mom - there were only 3 passable plants - only 2 which were 'good' and one that turned out to be outstanding. The pictures absolutely do not do her justice. She has dark purple leaves and lovely red-purple stems. Her leaves are large and she exhibits the same tight inter-nodal spacing as the Sugar Blossom girl. There is some bleaching on her top leaves due to her growing so fast & into the T5's, but I'm not terribly concerned about that. I'm working on finding a way to photograph her & capture what's so special about her. Again - good job Joey!

Now, these plants have not sexed under the 12/12 yet - they could conceivably be males - although they do have those large bubble swellings were the side branches connect to the main stem - I've heard that is an indicator of female sex, but I don't know if this is reliable. Also, the have very prominent side branching & are short and stocky compared to others whose side branches are nearly nonexistent & exhibit a lankier body. I like these 2 so much, I'm cloning them and putting them under the cloner with the 24 hour lights as soon as I get those first mother clones out of the cloner. I'm excited! On an irrelevant personal note, just looking at them makes me happy - I think they are beautiful and I've become quite fond of them already. What do you all think? Are they little ladies or gents?

Some of you may have wondered who does that hairy arm holding up my prized Sugar Blossom & Blueberry plants as it is clearly not of the feminine persuasion. The arm that doesn't match the little white hand you've seen once or twice in my previous pictures. No, it's not my arm (but that is my little hand)! That's my friend, larryshomework. So now I think is a great time to introduce him & say a few words about my friend larryshomework, whose assistance in times of need has been a key element to the success of this grow.

larryshomework's a man, a man with a van :D Seriously, that van has been a lifesaver (and a back-saver). larryshomework is a person I know in real life & who is a member on these forums. As some of you may know - I have some chronic health issues that every so often debilitate me for days and are very painful to boot - most times, things can wait: reservoirs can be changed later, walls can be erected next week, plants can be flowered somewhere further into the future to accommodate the inevitable "downtime." However as you all know sometimes a deadline comes up and mother nature waits for no man, during those times, larryshomework has helped me when to move when something needed to be done that very day. He's been there to save my grow when I 've been helpless, at a sensitive time in the life of the plants. He's made runs to Home Depot, the hydrostore & Lowe's when I've been too in pain to move or even tolerate weak daylight without feeling like I had a knife in my eye - these runs could have waited & been done on my own when I was well again, but he generously offered to do them so I could remain on schedule. He's also been there when I've been feeling good - helping out here and there while I worked on the construction & planning of the project. He took direction & assisted me, I couldn't ask for a better assistant. But just as important - he was good company - it's fun to work with a friend at your side, and he never ever gave me any grief and always did his best which was always excellent work.

He's also very computer savvy & has hooked me up great by walking me through the installation of this wonderful proxy server, JAP/JonDo, which I highly recommend to everyone for their anonymity & security over the internet - I've persuaded larryshomework to put up a tutorial on how to get it up and running & how to use it to access sensitive sites such as these - if you're interested I highly suggest you check it out.

The only folks who know about this grow are me, larryshomework & my little brother - the two people I've known for at least a decade & the only people in the world I know I can trust with my life or a secret as dangerous as this one. So on that note I'd like to pay special thanks & praise to my old friend: a helpful assistant, an occasional savior, a hard worker, a fascinating conversationalist, a generous soul, a brilliant mind & an all around decent human being - to larryshomework!

Oh and it goes without saying - larryshomework will be given any fruits of this labor that he wishes to have - absolutely gratis & given gladly with my gratitude.

10/19/09

Transplanting mothers to Rockwool:

2 cuttings were taken on 10/11/09 from the 4 plants I want to use as mother plants, making them 8 day old clones as of today. Today they showed enough yellowing of the leaves, white root bumps & one or two small root branches to convince me it was time to move them to the rockwool cubes.

Some of the cuttings had to be taken further up the plant - predictably the plants that had less available matter towards the bottom (C99 'grapefruit' & 'pineapple') showed less advanced development than the plants with cuttings taken closer to the base - C99 X BB being the standout.

For the guidance & confidence to embark on this latest phase: credit must be paid to Al B. Fuct and his Rockwool Cloning Guide for providing a reference for me to work from as an earlier test run on clones I had taken & put directly into rockwool didn't take b/c, I believe I left too much leaf surface. I've been trimming off & cutting large leaves in halved ever since.

The rockwool starter plugs were soaked in plain PH 5.5 water & shaken out to remove excess water. Then they were placed on a tray of wetted perlite underneath the fluorescents (T-12s) in the unit previously used to nurture the seedlings and kept under 24 hour lighting on a heat mat. Prior to placement in the cubes, they were dipped in Olivia's cloning gel for good measure.

The mother plants chosen were C99 'grapefruit', C99 'pineapple', C99 X A11 'alpha', C99 X BB 'bravo'

Additionally, I took 2 cuttings each from the most desirable Blueberry plant & Sugar Blossom as they have a clear stand out in each case, as for the Blue Apollo, Sugar Berry & Apollo 11, I'm still waiting for one to catch my eye above the others and waiting on the results of the cloning for sex. I also took two back-up cuttings from each of the plants I ad moved into rockwool cubes, plus one other C99 X BB I had not cloned before: 'echo' she was a runner up to 'bravo' & since I had the space I thought, what the hell, why not? Maybe her smoke/yield/wahtever will be better than the one originally selected. These were placed in the aerocloner where the clones I just removed came from. I changed the water to 150 ml Clonex & adjusted the PH to approximately 5.8 (my PH meter finally became so unreliable I had to break out the old color drops - a new meter is on it's way) to see if the addition of a small amount of seedling fertilizer impeded the sprouting of roots at all.

I will be watching them like a hawk in the coming days. Fingers crossed here, people. The mamas have just entered flowering, even though C99 & C99 crosses tend to clone well, even from flowering plants, I'd prefer not having that extra, difficult complication.

Update 10/20/09: Rockwool clones look no worse for wear, but the cubes had become dry - I soaked them in PH adjusted water (5.8) - a little less than I normally do, but still wet. And the watch continues, albeit with less anxiety as there are backups in deck should it turns out I loused up this batch.

The bottoms of my plants - the Cinderellas & Cinderella crosses in groups 1 & 2 specifically - haven't looked so great, I thought it was solely due to lack of light penetration, but 3 days after the 1000W HPS was turned on, the condition seemed to worsen - given C99's reputation as a magnesium hound, I think it's time for me to add my cal-mag + to the regimen.

After examining the dying growth, the inter veinal chlorosis - turning papery & white in the worst cases. The teeth of the leaves curling up - which I've had a problem with since early in the grow (you can see it in the pictures) - I attributed this toheat/nutrient stress and the stress reactions of the plants when the LEDs were too close to them and thought this would resolve itself once the specifics had been dialed in. However while those issues have been dealt with - this particular condition has been a stubborn constant, which furthers me to suspect a cause I had not previously considered. The "dryness" and crinkly quality of some of the leaves - I'm thinking it's a Mg deficiency. Since I changed the reservoirs yesterday and I hear that you should mix cal-mag + in BEFORE you mix your other nutrients I will foliar feed a 2% solution of cal-mag+ until I change the reservoir next week - if the condition improves it will confirm that this indeed was a magnesium deficiency.

http://boards.cannabis.com/members/a...led-leaves.jpg

http://boards.cannabis.com/members/a...reen-veins.jpg

The pictures included show various degrees of damage to the lower canopy of Group 1 - the most severely effected group. Note the shriveled, claw-like small clusters of leaves. One picture is a picture of a leaf with one blade turned that papery texture & white - but still retaining it's green veins even in this state, making me rule out Nitrogen. Most of all note the inter veinal yellowing & the smallness of the old growth. All thoughts are welcome - but the more I see, the more I think Mg deficiency. Just for your information, in the other pictures I've posted - especially the new ones of Groups 1 & 2 and even Group 3 (some of the teeth are pointing up on them), you can see the damage I'm talking about b/c the plants have been bent & trained, exposing their undersides much more than before - I mistakenly thought the symptoms were due to lack of light and the natural dying off of older tissue.

Update: 10/21/09 - plants are looking better after the spraying, so I guess it was Mg deficiency - I guess I just underestimated how much Mg this plant/strain needed or ho low the Mg content of the GH was. The loss of the lower canopy should stop now. From here on in I'll be adding Cal-Mag + 5ml/gal to all the reservoirs on their next change. For now I'll continue to foliar feed up to the next reservoir changes. It's probably a good idea to note here that my water has a PPM of around 90, which I believe is considered a bit low, plus the micronutrients already present in the tap water sometimes aren't in the most readily available form - my guess is that would vary region to region.

Update 10/25/09 - End of first week of flowering

Not too much to report here, just a few pictures. Since there is little to report - I thought I'd break from the format I'd decided on of one update per week and show some extra pictures & some side by side comparisons of the plants just with two days difference between them b/c the growth is quite pronounced - I didn't even realize how much until I looked over the pictures myself.

I hung the second 1000 Watt light & uvb supplemental lights & set up the ventilation.

Since I added the SubCulture M last week at quarter strength, this week I added the bacteria supplement SubCulture B at 1/4 the recommended strength.

I'm using the aggressive bloom expert recirculating formula from GH's calculator page - I changed both Group 1 & Group 2's reservoirs to this on 10/25/09 - the previous week, they were given the Transitional formula & I probably should have added the cal-mag+ then, but decided to foliar feed instead as I thought adding it after the fact would just cause lockout. I figure what with using 2 1000 Watt lights, the uvb and the supplemental Co2, if there ever was a time to push flowering, it is under conditions such as these.

In all units I'm adding 5ml/gal of Cal-Mag + with every reservoir change.

By the way - I got a new PH meter and it is working great.

I've been tying down branches as they get too close to the light. The largest C99 plant is now touching the glass of the reflector. I'm not too concerned, it's only warm to the touch, but I will likely be dealing with this either one of 2 ways: by tying down the up-stretched branches or by gently making little breaks in the meristem to bend the plant over. Perhaps this last technique can be accomplished by merely pulling at the top of the plant with a slipknot, for example, and gradually increasing the bending over time. There will need to be steps taken as it looks like the plants, in Group 1 especially, has jumped nearly a foot in length in one week!

Several plants in Group 3 have sexed, the males were discarded. Group 3 is on a full growth schedule (not the aggressive growth formula). A single plant in Group 2 showed it was male and was removed as thoroughly as could be in the flower unit. 'm adding Hygrozyme (10ml/gal) to deal with any potential ill-effects of removing plants from units whose roots get tangled with each other & may leave dead organic matter behind. I've checked and there is no negative interactions with anything I have already put in my reservoir, I was worried in particular about the beneficial fungi & bacteria, but it explicitly states that it is safe to use in conjunction with them.

I'm watching the Blue Apollos, Apollo 11s, and Sugar Berrys for one plant (or more) to assert itself. Curiously - the Sugar Berry - which is described a real couch-lock indica & is 1/2 Blueberry, shows a predominantly sativa-ish phenotype. Actually, the three strains mentioned all look rather the same. Only the Sugar Blossoms & Blueberrys have shown that typical squat indica look - and Sugar Blossoms is my half indica, half sativa girl.

As this is a set-up in progress, I've added some elements that will only be temporary & am waiting on others. One notable addition is a fan I've ducted to the window to pull in cold air to the general area outside the grow rooms, dissipating the heat the rooms expel. This will likely have an effect on the requirements & function of the environmental controls operating in the rooms. The fan is attached to a speed control set to 68 degrees - when the temperature sensor reaches 68 the fan slows down, when it goes up the fan resumes at a higher speed. At least the basement is now more comfortable for me.

In addition to the fan added to the general area - a Can 50 filer & fan has been added to the general basement area, just to catch any stray odors. Can't wait to see how it all performs in week 4 of flower.

Here are some pretty shots of the canopy where you can see the first baby flowers, the largest plants have been FIMed & topped, shots taken on 10/25/09:

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10/25/09 Flower Room:
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10/27/09 Flower Room:
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10/25/09 Group 1:
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10/27/09 Group 1:
http://www.imagehut.eu/pro/image.php...B_4AEC9396&jpg

10/25/09 Group 2:
http://www.imagehut.eu/pro/image.php...6_4AEC9396&jpg

http://www.imagehut.eu/pro/image.php...1_4AEC96C0&jpg

http://www.imagehut.eu/pro/image.php...3_4AEC96C0&jpg

10/27/09 Group 2:
http://www.imagehut.eu/pro/image.php...C_4AEC96C0&jpg

10/25/09 Group 3 Flower Unit, Center, Veg Unit 2:
http://www.imagehut.eu/pro/image.php...C_4AEC9B19&jpg

http://www.imagehut.eu/pro/image.php...D_4AEC9B19&jpg

http://www.imagehut.eu/pro/image.php...F_4AEC9B19&jpg

10/27/09 Group 3 Flower Unit, Veg Unit 1, Center, Veg Unit 2 & Veg Room:
http://www.imagehut.eu/pro/image.php...7_4AECA25B&jpg

http://www.imagehut.eu/pro/image.php...0_4AECA10B&jpg

http://www.imagehut.eu/pro/image.php...8_4AECA10B&jpg

http://www.imagehut.eu/pro/image.php...3_4AECA25B&jpg

http://www.imagehut.eu/pro/image.php...2_4AECA25B&jpg

10/27/09 Mother Clones

http://www.imagehut.eu/pro/image.php...F_4AECA485&jpg

All mother clones have been transplanted into rockwool. In some cases there were only root bumps - in these cases I was able to swirl that portion of the stem in Olivia's coning gel & place into cubes. In cases where the roots were more developed I gently "painted" the roots with the rooting hormone and placed them carefully inside a split RW cube which I then bound together with twist ties - this has been successful for me in the past when I've had to place large sprouted seeds into RW cubes. I added Clonex in the recommended dosage to the water I'm feeding the mother clones & they look much healthier & are retaining more of their green coloring & in some cases getting it back. I want the plants strong for obvious reasons.

http://www.imagehut.eu/pro/image.php...A_4AECA485&jpg

Some of the clones were taken 10/19/09 and have roots popping out the bottoms of the cubes, but not as much as I'd like before I transfer them into the dutch buckets. I've added 2 more cuttings of each original cloned plant plus two cuttings of the favorite Sugar Blossoms and Blueberry plant. Pray for pistils. Luck be a Lady tonight, luck be a Lady tonight, stick with me baby, I'm the fella you came in with, luck be a Lady tonight. I'm willing them into femaleness, with this song running through my head.

http://www.imagehut.eu/pro/image.php...C_4AECA485&jpg

http://www.imagehut.eu/pro/image.php...4_4AECA503&jpg

10/30/09 Update! - Sugar Blossom 'charlie' - the object of my affection has sprung a white hair or two - it's a girl! Blueberry 'bravo' is still playing hard to get.

Sexed a bunch of plants by pre-flowers today, I only pull plants that I wouldn't want even if it was a female or that have shown ball clusters in the sexing cloner. Pre-flowers are just too tricky, I'm only certain of them when they sprout hairs or show more than one pre-flower in a cluster like I mentioned before.

Since I'm pulling plants that have had large root masses intertwine with those of their neighbors I added 10 ml per gallon of Hygrozyme to each reservoir. I topped off all the reservoirs to 10 gallons, added the Hygrozyme (100ml/reservoir)) & adjusted the PHs to 5.8 - I know, boring standard stuff - but it's good to mention every now and then.

The addition of Hygrozyme alone may not be enough to ward off pathogens associated with the dead organic matter left behind since it is a lot. So, I'm contemplating moving the plants in the veg room into flower units. This way the debris from their root system will be left behind and all they will have is fresh new roots.

Apollonia,
I must say that I am absolutely humbled by your abilities.
Your grow is vibrant, lush and happy. Not to mention your top notch genetics. The Breeders you mentioned in another thread are "bottled in bond" af far as I'm concerned.

M.P.

Damn me to hell...:mad:
I tried to give you rep, but ended up subtracting it!
May I ask why negative rep is the default choice?

Many, many apologies my friend.

arrrrrggggg.............

M.P.

Merry, your compliments mean so much to me and made my day (I'm just sorry about asking the mods to fix our reputation mishap, I didn't want you to think I took it badly - I'm just over "tidy" that way :( ) What you wrote absolutely made my day. I wish I could send you a PM. Your words mean much more than a silly rep button. :hippy:

11/1/09 Update - End of second week of flowering, first day of third week

Hi again. A few things to show this week: a lot of moving around was done, plus I put an emergency flush through my dutch bucket system - the pics will explain why. But overall, things seem to be on track as we move forward into the next phases of the grow. Also I got an eyeclops! There will be trichome pics in the future!

I've got my usual weekly update pics of the different groups, but I want to devote most of this week's update to problems I've been having with one plant: my Cinderella 99 'grapefruit'. So here is a quick Update of Group 1 plus some random pretty photos from Group 1.

Group 1 General Update Photos:

http://www.imagehut.eu/pro/image.php...9_4AF8EE58&jpg

http://www.imagehut.eu/pro/image.php...D_4AF8EE58&jpg

http://www.imagehut.eu/pro/image.php...A_4AF974A6&jpg
Pineapple Canopy

http://www.imagehut.eu/pro/image.php...8_4AF9757B&jpg
Pineapple Greenery

http://www.imagehut.eu/pro/image.php...1_4AF9757B&jpg
The smaller plants in group 1

11/1/09 Update Group 1 C99 'grapefruit' woes

I realize this could be over reaction of an over-anxious "parent," the place where the perceived damage is is also the part of the plant that faced away from the vegging light - but it could be something more...

http://www.imagehut.eu/pro/image.php...1_4AF974A6&jpg
This is C99 'grapefruit' in full, I separated her from the others with a cardboard divider to show a clearer picture of the plant

As to the health of C99 'grapefruit' from Group 1, I couldn't say what is happening for certain and it is curious because whatever is effecting her is only effecting her and not the other plants in the system.

The best way to start to describe it is I noticed she was getting sparser than her sisters and that her leaves, seemingly from the middle were turning yellow - oddly not really dying, but going very, very yellow. New growth is green, but seems small which could indicate something specific or just be a reflection of. There is also a whole side to the plant that is lush and dark green and appears unaffected.

http://www.imagehut.eu/pro/image.php...6_4AF8F0EC&jpg
Close up of a leaf typical of the ones making me worry about the health of 'grapefruit'

This will surely effect yield but I wonder what it could possibly be - she's certainly getting enough nutrients, the highest PPM is 1500 and I'm using and if it were a fungus or bacterial problem, I'd imagine I would see something from the others - so I went with what I thought was my best option - I flushed the entire dutch bucket system (Group 1) for 24 hours using FloraKleen at the higher end of the recommended concentration of 2 tsp FloraKleen per gallon of plain water. I was nervous about taking away nutrients for too long while flowering, but figured 36 hours was an acceptable period especially as 24 of those hours were during the night cycle. I even let her bucket "flood" a little so as to clear as much of the hydroton as possible.

http://www.imagehut.eu/pro/image.php...8_4AF977B2&jpg
A troubling center shot of C99 'grapefruit' where the problem seems to emanate from. I took it under a different light to get a "truer" less yellow picture.

I'm torn between several deficiencies, lockout & overferting! Another thing to note - I've also noticed similar but far less extensive chlorosis on some of the fan leaves of grapefruit's sister plant, pineapple. C99 'grapefruit' could be slowly dying - I'm not too concerned, except as it effects the other healthy plants in the system as I have rooted cuttings of her - the plants from seed were more of a bonus harvest & a practice run before commencing the perpetual grow, so no whining here. But I'm very curious as to what is up with this plant. I'm going with Mg lockout for now - but I diagnose nothing with confidence - I've seen things that could indicate possible iron deficiency, over-nuting, nutrient lockout, potassium deficiency, nitrogen deficiency... so who knows and I am sure part of this is over analyzing the situation. I hesitate to say it is PH issues, as I am very on top of the PH and the fluctuation only goes up a point on average. I also don't think that over-concentration of nutrients are causing nutrient burn as I've been topping off the reservoirs frequently which keeps the PPMs low.

http://www.imagehut.eu/pro/image.php...1_4AF974A6&jpg
A picture of some of the healthy parts of the troublesome plant.

Hopefully the flush will have removed whatever was causing the trouble. As I've mentioned, I've started to supplement the plants with 5ml/gal of Cal-Mag+ and everyone seems to be loving it except our C99 'grapefruit' who is getting yellow. Perhaps I did not add it fast enough? Curiouser & curiouser... If anyone has any ideas - I'd love to hear them. Also, I should mention that the dutch buckets with the largest plants (grapefruit & pineapple) have occasionally flooded - I didn't know that this was a complication of dutch buckets when I went for the system - I resolved the issue each time, but maybe the flooding has something to do with it.

I took a bunch of pictures from different angles & under different lighting. One thing that occurred to me is it may have looked worse than it is b/c the yellow light of the Super HPS may have looked like more yellow leaves than there actually were.

http://www.imagehut.eu/pro/image.php...E_4AF8F82A&jpg
The plant as it appeared under a brighter flash

http://www.imagehut.eu/pro/image.php...6_4AF97965&jpg
The plant as it appeared under the HPS lighting.

http://www.imagehut.eu/pro/image.php...6_4AF97092&jpg
This is a picture of C99 'pineapple', C99 'grapefruit's sister - she has some leaves exhibiting chlorosis but appears to not be suffering to the extend that 'grapefruit' is. Hopefully this is normal and not a sign of degeneration to come.

http://www.imagehut.eu/pro/image.php...4_4AF8F0EC&jpg
Additional leaves off of 'grapefruit' in various states of chlorosis.

Group 2 & Mother Clones in Rockwool

Group 2 pictures:

http://www.imagehut.eu/pro/image.php...F_4AF8F2B3&jpg

http://www.imagehut.eu/pro/image.php...E_4AF9757B&jpg

Group 2's Root system:

http://www.imagehut.eu/pro/image.php...B_4AF97D0C&jpg

http://www.imagehut.eu/pro/image.php...C_4AF97D0C&jpg

My Apollo 11 X C99 has really taken off and surprised me, she burst her neoprene collar (!) and is growing... like a weed. Long arms & lots of blooms, she's a lovely girl. I thought because of some bad luck early on - I'd end up with a lesser mother, but it looks as if with this strain, I've struck the jackpot. As you can see from the pictures, the Cal-Mag+ has turned these guys a deep green. Speaking of mothers - they are doing very well and ready for transplant, check out the new growth.

Mother Clones in Rockwool:

http://www.imagehut.eu/pro/image.php...8_4AF977B2&jpg

These guys are basically ready to plant into their hydroton buckets and will be very soon. The transition from the aerocloner to the rockwool wasn't as traumatic as I thought it would be & they have a nice survival rate - they're already throwing out new growth.

http://www.imagehut.eu/pro/image.php...9_4AF977B2&jpg

Group 3

http://www.imagehut.eu/pro/image.php...9_4AF8F2B3&jpg

The next big event was moving the plants of Group 3 in the veg room into flower units - I pulled quite a few males and put my strongest plants & desired mothers into flower units to give them more space. My 'duds' are in the last remaining veg unit - and they are duds, some of them cannot even stand up on their own. Cuttings for mothers were taken of the Blue Apollo, Sugar Berry & Apollo 11 strains. The cloned strains already transplanted to rockwool are ready and rooted. They will make the transition to the dutch bucket mother system soon as I make room by putting the plants in the veg unit into a flower unit & move it to the flower room - this will likely happen this coming Sunday. We'll see what the duds can produce in terms of bud.

http://www.imagehut.eu/pro/image.php...3_4AF8F2B3&jpg
Group 3's 'duds', these plants were not good enough to preserve as clones for mothers, but moved to a flower unit & placed in the flower room, they may produce some nice extra harvest.

I think I've eradicated the last of the males. Interesting note, the Blueberrys turned out to be the most difficult to sex, producing pre-flowers & even early regular flowers that are quite spherical, usually an indicator of male sex. Making it more difficult is the females only throw out a tiny white hair which is very hard to spot. And they all showed indicators of sex far later than all the other strains - in vegetative growth and even under the 12/12 lighting. I'd incorrectly identified Blueberry 'foxtrot' as a female, but when I checked the cutting I put in the sex cloner - I found out that foxtrot was in fact a male! I don't know if I hermied him/her or just read a stipule as the white hair of a pistil, as they were so tiny on the others - but the clone cutting had balls - two of them in each crevice, so I pulled it from the system.

http://www.imagehut.eu/pro/image.php...8_4AF8F82A&jpg
This is flower unit 1, it holds several mothers & second bests - I've taken clones of more than one of the strains Blue Apollo, Apollo 11, and Sugar Berry as there was no one plant that greatly out-shined all others as was the case with Blueberry & Sugar Blossoms. With Sugar Berry there were two top runners, so close in quality I had to take cuttings from both & determine who will be the mother based on the final results of flowering out the seeded plants.

http://www.imagehut.eu/pro/image.php...C_4AF8F82A&jpg
Flower Unit 2 - this holds the mothers of Blueberry & Sugar Blossoms, as their clones have rooted (plus I have additional cuttings in the aerocloner just in case) I may flower them out along with the runners up in the unit instead of transferring them into flower unit 1 with the rest of the mothers, we shall see.

Nice.

The one comment I noticed when scanning your thread was that you run your nutes to 1500ppm. I also grow aero, though I keep my mothers in soilless mix. I've been experimenting with topping out nutrients 800ppm at the high point during flower and it's working great for me. My systems are VERY similar to yours.. constructed with 5" vinyl fence posts, and 3" General Hydroponic net pots (aeroflow parts), but I used in adjustable drains where I can maintain a little bit of water in the channels. For veg, I have one 2x6 system, that feeds three 2x3 systems (6 plants) used for flower, where I try to harvest one every three weeks. I typically get about 12 oz dried bud from one 6 plant system and enough trim/trash for about 15g killer hash.

For the one plant in your photos that was loosing leaves.. From the top, it kind of looked like you may have developed a root rot problem. Did your roots start turning brown and smelling bad? I know I have real issues when the reservoirs start getting above 68 degrees F. I lost a system over the summer due to root rot, looked just like that. Suffered through August using H2O2 (hydrogen peroxide) to combat it, though once it cooled off, all of that kind of issue went away. I'm going to bite the bullet for next year and get 4 chillers, 1 for each of my systems.

Have you harvested from your aero systems yet?

Peace,

Farmer Rich

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Farmer Rich

The one comment I noticed when scanning your thread was that you run your nutes to 1500ppm. I also grow aero, though I keep my mothers in soilless mix. I've been experimenting with topping out nutrients 800ppm at the high point during flower and it's working great for me. My systems are VERY similar to yours.. constructed with 5" vinyl fence posts, and 3" General Hydroponic net pots (aeroflow parts), but I used in adjustable drains where I can maintain a little bit of water in the channels. For veg, I have one 2x6 system, that feeds three 2x3 systems (6 plants) used for flower, where I try to harvest one every three weeks. I typically get about 12 oz dried bud from one 6 plant system and enough trim/trash for about 15g killer hash.

....

Have you harvested from your aero systems yet?

---

Whew, that's a mighty fine haul! You've got me reaming now of hat I might pull down of this haul. :dance: Thanks for coming by - it's good to have someone using a similar system to yours to speak with. You know I heard another poster on this board (an old hand w/a lot of respect) state that a plant can't use more than 800 PPM nutrients... and now your post, I will surely look into it. Right now I'm going strictly by the book & I thought I'd learn from this grow and adjust & your sharing your experience helps. Just thought I'd add, I'm running the PPMs initially at around 1300, dropping as I top it off - (I always wondered how that effects the plants, if it's bad to dilute it too much - my current thinking is the recommended PPM the starting number for that week or that reservoir & as the plant uses nutrients it should drop, but if you know more, please tell me)

And I've yet to harvest anything from anything - this is my very first grow.:D

Quote:

---

For the one plant in your photos that was loosing leaves.. From the top, it kind of looked like you may have developed a root rot problem. Did your roots start turning brown and smelling bad? I know I have real issues when the reservoirs start getting above 68 degrees F. I lost a system over the summer due to root rot, looked just like that. Suffered through August using H2O2 (hydrogen peroxide) to combat it, though once it cooled off, all of that kind of issue went away. I'm going to bite the bullet for next year and get 4 chillers, 1 for each of my systems.

---

You'll see it in my next update if you read it, but I incorporated this comment o yours into my thinking. It's happening in the dutch bucket, not the aero system. The stink is what gives away the root rot? As of now, I think I eliminated whatever the problem was. The badly damaged leaves were lost, but the new growth is developing and the buds are just as big as her sister plants'... <crosses herself, eyes to the heavens> I hope I've done enough. What did the roots look like when they rotted? Unfortunately I'm using several products that make the roots brown, so coloring isn't necessarily a key for me. I worry b/c I've moved the plants around causing damage and leaving some dead matter around. But the roots smell clean.

It's (as of today) about the start of the fifth week of flower and in Unit 2 (the aerosystem) I've noticed some fan leaves beginning to yellow! If that OK or normal given my high nutrient levels & such? I'm afraid that whatever error I was making or disease is now coming to fruition in the second unit as it did in the first with grapefruit :( So I'm fretting. The amount of leaves yellowing are small, but after what happened to grapefruit I'm scared. Got my hand on my FloraShield (it's sort of like H2O2, it'll kill bacteria/fungus/root troubles & "clean" your roots - but I wonder if it would have some undesirable effect - It would kill any beneficial bacteria/fungi, but if you got root rot or whatever you might as well sterilize & start again (re-inoculate after the cleansing) I don't know why I'm not doing it... maybe this is the thing I'll look back on and regret. I'm so freaked about my roots, even the little hairy roots I thought was fungus for a brief, panic-y second when it was actually a sign of recovery (unless I was totally wrong - but the plants look healthy and the roots do not smell..) See? I'm a totally crazy over-protective parent, any advice, any at all would be so appreciated - I don't want to act too late. :tin foil hat:

As for the chillers, I say go for it, you won't be sorry - one bit of advice I'd give is if you want to not have to use AC, go for the larger chiller. I'm thinking of buying a second one, then I'll really be rolling. The thing with a chiller is, if you get just below the HP needed - you're shooting yourself in the foot as it can only drop the temperature of the res to a level that's lower, but still too high for you & it's a great expense - all the while running at full tilt expelling hot air all around, where as a more powerful unit would run less, emit less heat and handle the temperature you need - and it's versatile, you can use it to cool your rooms if you find you wish to do that. You can ask me about them should you decide on making the jump - I'm no expert, but I've done my shopping around.

11/8/09 Update - End of the third week of flowering & beginning of the fourth. This is the first day of flower for unit 3.

http://www.imagehut.eu/pro/image.php...7_4AFF2A7A&jpg
The flowering room after the new flower unit was added

In the flowering room: Buds have really started to turn up at this point. Major changes are I've moved the "duds" of group 3 plus the favorite Sugar Blossoms & Blueberry plant grown from seed into a flowering unit & placed into the flower room. All reservoirs were changed, Groups 1 & 2 were given the Aggressive Bloom General Hydroponics formula with Hygrozyme & Cal-Mag+ added.

http://www.imagehut.eu/pro/image.php...E_4AFF29EE&jpg
Groups 1 & 2 canopy

The newly transplanted Group 3 flower unit was given the Transitional formula plus the Hygrozyme and the Cal-Mag+, the Transitional formula will be changed out in a week and replaced with Aggressive Bloom formula. Bioballs were added to the reservoir and it as given a 1/4 strength root drench of SubCulture M. I'm changing the reservoirs every 2 weeks, I hope that's enough, I wouldn't want to be wasteful changing it every week.

http://www.imagehut.eu/pro/image.php...E_4AFF2F77&jpg
New Flower Unit

http://www.imagehut.eu/pro/image.php...2_4AFF2F77&jpg
The new flowering unit contains Blue Apollos, Sugar Berrys, Sugar blossoms, Blueberrys & Apollo 11s - including the desired Blueberry & sugar Blossom mother plants, but since their cuttings took well and there are back up cuttings, I thought it best to flower them out.

http://www.imagehut.eu/pro/image.php...D_4AFF2A7A&jpg
Group 1 before buckets were rearranged & the second half removed

http://www.imagehut.eu/pro/image.php...C_4AFF2CB3&jpg
Groups 1 & 2 after both units moved to the wall

Some people have noticed how bushy Group 1 is - they were so big that I took quite a bit off the top - not the usual 1 - 2 node down cut, but further to control height. I anticipate a longer manicure time, but since it'll be my first, it shouldn't bother me too much as it's all so new. But I think they are giving me a very bush like, multiple "main" bud sites plant. Group 2 was topped also, but fimmed, not chopped several nodes down like Group 1 was and you can see all the long branches & multiple cola formations - part of that its down to genes as I hear C99 X A11 is long & branchy by nature. But you can see the difference in effect when you hack well down.

http://www.imagehut.eu/pro/image.php...5_4AFF2B35&jpg
Group 2 before tie down

I've done quite a bit of tying of the plants in Groups 1 & 2 and continue to do so. Just to note - PPMs for flower room reservoirs generally start at 1300-1400 gross total (my tap water is about 90 PPM on it's own) and it decreases as time goes by and it gets topped off. Plants seem happy. The PPM of the Veg units are usually gross 1100. The PPMs in the Transitional formula units are 1250 gross. As always, remember to subtract about 100 PPM to get the net - just thought I'd throw that out there.

http://www.imagehut.eu/pro/image.php...5_4AFF2B35&jpg
Group 2 after tie downs

http://www.imagehut.eu/pro/image.php...1_4AFF29EE&jpg
C99 'pineapple' bud close-up in purple

http://www.imagehut.eu/pro/image.php...8_4AFF2CB3&jpg
Group 2 "clover field"

Since the buds have started to show, I've been overcome with taking pictures of them - they look like clover. Unit 2 especially looks like a clover field. I haven't been able to get a good enough picture to really show you this clover field effect, but I'm trying - it's down to the lighting & the camera at this point. I'm a sucker for flowers. Hopefully these pictures will give the impression.

http://www.imagehut.eu/pro/image.php...2_4AFF2F77&jpg
C99 'pineapple' close-up

http://www.imagehut.eu/pro/image.php...D_4AFF2B35&jpg
Group 2 Canopy

http://www.imagehut.eu/pro/image.php...D_4AFF328B&jpg
C99 'grapefruit' in a sorry state

In the dutch bucket system, as the Hydroton wasn't washed (my first and rather big newb mistake) the PH rises a bit faster (and a lot faster than the thoroughly washed & PH conditioned Hydroton of the mother system) so I've had to keep on top of that. But, in the aeroponic flowering systems, the PH actually tends to go down, but occasionally will rise. Just an observation, and this goes for the units in the flower room and in the vegetation room.

http://www.imagehut.eu/pro/image.php...8_4AFF2CB3&jpg
Groups 1 & 3, you can really see the C99 'grapefruit'

Just a thought: my woes with C99 'grapefruit' may be due in part to the debris in the system from the unwashed Hydroton. The old damaged growth on the plant is likely not going to recover - but the new growth remains green & it is still putting out new. Perhaps this is a phenotype that cannot take the PPM level her sisters can, we shall find out. My suspicion, and it's just my suspicion, is that b/c the Hydroton was unwashed it left this very clay-y residue which might have coated the roots and left them oxygen starved which in turn lead to dead roots, root rot = no nutrient uptake. But I think that's passed... the buds and new green growth are there although the plant itself is a sorry sight - I was tempted just to take her out of the system, but as it appears to have abated, I'm likely going to see this through to completion. Big thanks to poster Farmer Rich for sharing his experiences & pointing me in that direction, as I read more, it seemed the likeliest. I also think the FloraKleen may have whisked enough Hydroton debris away to enable the roots to somewhat re-establish themselves plus the Hygrozyme must have eaten away at enough dead matter to at lest keep my other plants in the system from falling vulnerable to the ever present pythium et al. I don't like to speak in so much conjecture, but it's all I got right now. It's interesting to note that after peeling away some Hydroton from poor 'grapefruit' I've noticed a whole lot of white fuzzy where before there was none - so I'm giving the girl a chance - I think she has come back from whatever it is that was ailing her, but the 'haul' from her harvest will be meager.

http://www.imagehut.eu/pro/image.php...4_4AFF2A7A&jpg
Group 1, 'grapefruit' is on the left

http://www.imagehut.eu/pro/image.php...C_4AFF29EE&jpg
Groups 1 & 2 before the new flowering unit was added - 'grapefruit' is very visible at the end