This Is Evil and Must Be Stopped Immediately

There's a new police concept car out called the E7 from Carbon Motors. It has all the civil liberty smashing features taxpayers don't want or can afford and it's coming soon. Carbon Motors has been started by former executives from Ford and I believe Bear Sterns (2 very successful companies, one had to be bought out to prevent bankrupcy, the other is losing about a billion dollars a month) and hope to put this useless money trap into action in the next few years by offering fleet discounts to police and law enforcement agencies.

Trust me, this company Carbon Motors is so full of shit all they're out to do is capitalize on fear mongering to make a buck. Every time the cops want something they start off by hyping the threat and all end of the world scenarios. I can hear them now "To keep up with the growing threat of evil around the world we need these new toys I mean cars to protect you and you'll be sorry if you don't let us buy them or else everyone is going to die! Don't tell us we didn't warn you!" :rolleyes:

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlGoBzr8KgY[/YOUTUBE]

carbonmotors dot com.

You know I don't like to post commercial links or give away free ad space and this is the last thing I want to get free advertisement right now so I didn't link the website or its demo video or really give it any good video. There's one with a bunch of cops drooling over it and laughing about it because they know they're getting new toys like Christmas morning. The news story gives some of its stats but the license plate reading camera they're talking about can scan like 1000 plates a minute and run checks, they say for parking tickets, stolen cars, and something about fugitive (make sure you aren't driving a car by a wanted felon).

The WMD analyzer or big waste of money is supposed to be a machine in the trunk that can sample the air and analyze it for biological or chemical agents. Infrared cameras, night vision cameras, infrared heads up display windshields forward looking infrared it can have that whole mess. Probably can even get parabolic mics put in to listen to people miles away.

I don't think they're telling the full story on the armor plating because most armor plating for cars is limited in that it can only take a few rounds before the armor fails, unless you want the car to weigh 6500 pounds.

If you go to the company website the pictures of the inside are ridiculous because the two front chairs look more like captain's chairs or laz-e-boy recliners with leather and padding everywhere and nice little places to store your shotgun or AR-15 or M-16 right next to them so their hands can be free to drink coffee and eat donuts. They just click and choose what useless money wasting features they want when they order the car and run the bill up to 85,000.

The following is from a Popular Mechanics article on it.

The E7 doesnâ??t exist, but if police agencies nationwide know whatâ??s good for them, it will. It would be the worldâ??s first purpose-built police car, a diesel-powered Dodge Charger look-alike with a laundry list of built-to-order options, such as armored front doors and dashboards (capable of stopping 9-mm rounds) and forward-looking infrared cameras. But the biggest potential innovation here is the business model. â??Law enforcement agencies donâ??t buy in bulk,â?� says William Li, chairman and CEO of Atlanta-based Carbon Motors. â??They have no economies of scale.â?�

For major automakers, thereâ??s no profit in designing a niche product like a purpose-built squad car. So agencies continue to buy standard Crown Victorias or Chevy Tahoes and then install aftermarket lights, sirens, laptop docks and other gear. As a leaner, niche-vehicle startup, Carbon Motorsâ??started by ex-Ford executivesâ??wants to deliver a high-performance, fully integrated patrol vehicle for roughly the same price as the retrofitted models currently on the road. In theory, by standardizing the installation process for the various police-friendly options, and using newer manufacturing processes (including thermoplastics instead of paint for customized color schemes), Carbon Motors could squeak out a profit that, as Li calls them, â??legacy automakersâ?� couldnâ??t.

The E7 would go from 0 to 60 mph in 6 seconds, with a top speed of 155 mph, and a slew of humble-sounding improvements, like seats that can accommodate radios and other bulky equipment. According to Li, the E7 would start in the high-20s, climbing up to as much as $70,000 with options like license-plate-reading cameras and even WMD sensors. In the long run, the E7 could prove more cost-effective than current patrol cars: Carbon Motors claims it will be 40 percent more fuel efficient, with a life span of 250,000 miles (most models used as police cars are expected to last for 70,000 miles).

I already saw the price inflated to 35,000 to 85,000. With the economy just beginning to show signs of life, do we need to spend money so that cops can have new toys to play with? Shit, most cities over a population of 100,000 in America already have armored personel carriers in addition to a fleet of vehicles. Paddy Wagons, SUV's, boats, helicopters, planes, armored personel carriers, segways, motorcycles, buses, pick up trucks, atv's, personel watercraft, SWAT panel vans or other special response large vans/vehicles/trucks/. When does it end?

Ok, first of all, the reason why cops only get 70,000 miles from a car is because they drive them with little concern over the damage they do to the car. Whether driving over any objects in the road or running over curbs or other raised surfaces to driving as fast as the can from the police station to Krispy Kreme or Dunking Donuts and taking them home, most cops drive cars into the ground.

Why the hell Carbon Motors thinks giving cops a car with 300 horsepower that does zero to 60 in 6 seconds is going to last 250,000 miles? Just because it's diesel they think it's going to withstand the abuse cops will give it? That's just pathetic that cops can only get 70,000 miles out of a car, new ones to boot. Maybe 30 years ago I could see this but new cars today should last more than 70k miles. Instead of building a more expensive car to withstand the abuse, how about teaching cops to go a little easier on cars that were bought with taxpayer money?

Under the control of most cops, this car won't get 250k miles.

Next, screw that rolling civil liberty violation with the license plate reading camera. What are we paying cops for anyway? Quit being lazy and do your job. I don't want cops getting all lazy and not paying attention because they have a camera paying attention for them. Besides, it will be just a matter of time before that camera scans a plate, tries to figure out who the registered owner of the car is and if he has a criminal record and whether or not the cop should start following him or sterotyping a driver. I've made some mistakes driving before in the past, is it going to haunt me forever and the man use this to try to keep me down? If used for it's original purpose, to find those who owe parking tickets or possibly stolen cars, what really is the cost effectiveness of that? Most car thieves don't drive in front of cops. Organized car theft rings are smarter than to be caught by the license plate. This isn't going to put a dent in car theft.

That camera is bad news.

Moving along, in this age of trying to find new green energy sources and conservation, do we really need heavier armor plated cop cars? When was the last time anyone saw a story about how someone shot at a cop through his door or other areas of the car and he died? Has anyone ever heard of a cop being shot through his door and in the press conference someone saying "If only he had armor plates on his car....." Cops love to overwhelm with force and the already have people calling up my house asking for donations for bulletproof vests now they want to waste more money and gas adding armor plates to cars. Look cops, all jobs come with risks so he you knew what you were getting into.

The way Carbon Motors exaggerates how much more cost effective the E7 is compared to factory Crown Vic and other sedans used to convert into cop cars. Most of the cars bought to be converted into cop cars are already built from a variation of the civilain model with the fatc that the car is going into police service in mind to make converstion and add ons easier. Hence the name Police Interceptor model, because the have already been making "plug & play adaptive" cars for years. Carbon Motors makes it sound like to add a light bar and cage to a Crown Vic Police Interceptor is so freaking expensive. Shit, they probably have trustees from the jail installing half the equipment.

The air analyzer, do I really need to point out that they can probably make it analyze air for marijuana? The'll just drive up and down block after block of residential area to bust marijuana users.

Do they think this is going to cut down on high speed chases. Take LA for example with it's high rate of made for tv high speed car chases. Helicopters are following these people and they don't care, what makes them think this will stop them?

Take just about any crime you know about, have witnessed, or have seen on tv and think, would this car have helped the situation or stopped the crime from happening? I can't think of any. School shootings, no. 9/11, no. Anthrax attack, no. Corporate theft, no. DUI's, no. Someone's house or car being broken into, no. Atlanta courthouse shootings, no. DC sniper, no. Child abductions, no. Bank robberies, no. Gas station heist? No.

Spread the word. Just say no to the E7 and it's big waste of money pricetag.

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Originally Posted by FakeBoobsRule

and even WMD sensors.

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I stopped reading when I saw this. Are they fucking serious? Like, I want to laugh but.. It's disturbing man.

North America fucked it up for the rest of the world.

So sad that these assholes have turned virtually every US citizen into a prospective terrorist. Sad that they would ever even consider putting these on our streets.
PS. I bet a frag grenade would take one of these out no problems.

It's because of companies like these that keep the U.S. in a hole ALL THE TIME....It's like a never ending circle of debt....One day we feel like we're making progress towards a better economy by doing things that we DO need and the next we've got billion dollar companies blowing all the money away on stupid ass pimp my ride cruisers, for what...To make the man feel like we're more vulnerable too them than we already are?! Most of these problems we face is all thanks to these type of companies....I mean seriously who the hell needs a license plate reader. I mean get the fu** out the car and look at the tags ya lazy bastard pigs! What's next a 6 billion dollar robot that writes all the tickets and washes each cops ass for them when they shit? Feels like the U.S. is going into shambles...We here it almost all our life, "what is this world coming to?"

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Originally Posted by Italiano715

...What's next a 6 billion dollar robot that writes all the tickets and washes each cops ass for them when they shit? "

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thats hilarious bro:thumbsup::thumbsup::D

Washington DC has a version of the license plate reader in use already.

The difference is it is in a pickup truck with yellow flashing lights and driven by a parking enforcement officer. It also looks for stolen cars but they have to call in an officer when they find one.

I had a feeling it was going to go to this level when I heard about it!!!!!

What ever happened to suspicion by your actions, not suspicion because of your past!!!

For those that have broken the law and did their sentence payed their debt to society!!! Therefore should be treated the same as any other citizen!!!!

This is going to have to be handled mostly at the local and state level budgets, so watch your local paper & news and fight it when it comes around to your town or state.

JG

I don't think main stream America realizes how much big brother really does control oir lives.

It's not just the States though, Look at London and all the camera's they have watching over the citizens walking and driving the streets! Phoenix also has that traffic watch system and can send speeders a picture of them sitting in their vehicle, the speed traveled and the posted speed limit and an envelope to send in the fine...bless their hearts.

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Originally Posted by killerweed420

I don't think main stream America realizes how much big brother really does control oir lives.

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if you obey the law you don't have anything to worry about. i drive the speed limit, crazy high speed cop cars don't worry me.

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Originally Posted by higher4hockey

if you obey the law you don't have anything to worry about.

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but that is extremely hypocritical of you :jointsmile:

How the hell can they put an FLIR on a car when you have to have a warrant to use FLIR? I guess you could use it, but you couldn't use that as a justification for detainment or search. The courts have been clear on this, FLIR is tantamount to a search. Oh well, our country is fucked anyway. They will do whatever they want, what can we do to stop it? Shoot them? The government has more and bigger guns. I think we all know by know that we have a monster on our hands and it will never, ever, ever stop feeding off of us and growing exponentially. The fucking hydra.

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Originally Posted by JohnnyZ

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that is extremely hypocritical of you :jointsmile:

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actually my friend, it is not. i am a law abiding citizen in every aspect of life. (in other words, i don't smoke, used to, but not anymore)

i'm not arguing with you hockey, but the speed limit isn't the only thing to get you pulled over!

the government uses everyday things to step in and take our rights away. they don't care about the people of this country. prisions are a multi-billion dollar a year industry. that's another reason legalizing weed is a problem.

it is OUR job as citizens, to get rid of this rapidly forming totaliarianistic government that is forming. i know i keep saying it, but our fore fathers GAVE us this right in the decleration of independence.

if our government is not for us, we have the right to overthrow that government and put a new one in place for our future security!

using FLIR does not require a warrant. if they use it to use what they find then yes, a warrant is necissary. but they can come up with a reason to pull you over/knock on your door once they see what comes up on the FLIR. cops can and will lie to you! there is no law against this. you, however cannot lie to the law. once again, something up to us to change!

we are in for civil war. you can only keep a foot on someones head for so long. and when you start to step harder those people start to get scared. and everyone knows what happens when you back a dog into a corner.

nice post there fake boobs! thanks for the info. another sad day in this country.


-shake

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Originally Posted by higher4hockey

actually my friend, it is not. i am a law abiding citizen in every aspect of life. (in other words, i don't smoke, used to, but not anymore)

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Damnit I hate when I'm wrong.

I know they do use FLIR without a warrant, and they have to make up some other kind of excuse for a search. But check the 2001 decision by the U.S. Supreme Court in Kyllo v. United States.

That's why I don't understand having such a system built into the car. It is almost like a guarantee of the officer violating the constitutional rights of the slavizen. They're not normally so open about breaking the law. But these days I guess they don't even feel the need to cover their butts. After all, when they get sued who gets to pay their legal fees? It's not out of their own pockets or the department budgets for damn sure. It is paid for by you and me. I'm about sick of this country. Too bad almost every other country has even less freedom and privacy than we do. Maybe Spain is a decent place, I dunno.

Man fuck the police, all they do is give good people criminal records for breaking crazy laws like having drugs, driving after drinking a fair amount of alcohol, riding on unregistered license plates, self defense, etc. I say there shouldn't be any police, just let everyone have the right to carry a gun and I believe that people will think twice about trying to do something wrong because of the fear of being shot

one of the worst things is that this car is designed to do the work that maybe a few hundred cops are supposed to do. but all at once. now thats cool and all. i even like the idea, not a popular notion, i know.

but my only concern is that when you have a car that can do more work for the people, do you still need as many people. i would be fine if the piggies got the car, but if they keep multiplying, those bastards, then therein lies the issue. if they got rid of most of the cops and maybe had 1 or 2 of these, fine, i could care less, but these are designed to be mass produced and used in number. which is stupid. if a factory worker loses his job cause a robot does it better then shouldnt the fucking pig cops have the same thing happen to them, or are they above the law and economy, look who runs the country now.

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Originally Posted by higher4hockey

if you obey the law you don't have anything to worry about. i drive the speed limit, crazy high speed cop cars don't worry me.

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Except for them bankrupting our country and converting to a police state....yeah theres nothing to worry about.

Ill just go back to playing Half life the Combine isnt real.......yet.

the combine....is that a 'one flew over the cuckoos nest' reference?

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Originally Posted by video100

Man fuck the police, all they do is give good people criminal records for breaking crazy laws like having drugs, driving after drinking a fair amount of alcohol, riding on unregistered license plates, self defense, etc. I say there shouldn't be any police, just let everyone have the right to carry a gun and I believe that people will think twice about trying to do something wrong because of the fear of being shot

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yes chitterlings: the government is pure evil, any person regardless of drunkenness should have the right to drive a 2000-pound hunk of metal moving with enough force to annihilate a human being.


ok now guys, seriously? Yes it's a bitch that weed is illegal, yes everyone here has probably gotten shit from a dick cop, but the fact that they have more efficient license plate readers does NOT mean they can use them for malevolent purposes. They are built, from what I understand, to find outstanding tickets and traffic violations - this is, believe it or not, a service designed to protect people.

If you drive drunk or go 90 in a 45, your chances of getting in an accident and therefore of hurting/killing people are dramatically higher. If you have outstanding dui's and speeding tickets, maybe that hints that you should not be driving, regardless of whether you actually obey the rules when around police.

Yes, I believe in one's power to change, as in if you have tickets, violations, whatever in your past you shouldn't be judged for them, but that's not what this system does. This is a good thing in my mind - if they see my car and see I have no unpaid tickets, etc. I'd rather be judged by that than whether I have tints in my windows or chrome rims (not that I do, but I know plenty who've been subject to being pulled over for riding dirty).

Next, armored cars. Yes, cops don't get shot at in their cars that much, but put yourself in the position of someone who wants to help his/her community, preserving order and stopping crimes. He/she lives in a rough city, where some serious stuff happens. Maybe he/she decides that they don't want to take the risk of dying trying to do what they think is right.
Now, let's take Mr. action hero who also wants to be a cop. He's ready to take the risk - he's not as worried about being shot at because he wants to kick some ass "in the name of the law." The first person is, in my mind, the type much less likely to bust you for chilling smoking a J somewhere than the second. That aside, I want more of the first type of cop than the second, and if that means making the cops' job a little safer than that is a sacrifice perhaps worth taking.

Most police, despite the occasional slip-ups and enforcement of laws outside of their control for which members of this forum seem to crucify them, are trying to protect citizens from different forms of harm. When this comes to driving, I take it very seriously - if you drive when you're drunk and don't care, you will ALWAYS be the bigger asshole than the cop that arrests you, even if you were driving within the traffic norms. Again, most people simply don't recognize the sheer quantity of destruction one can inflict with any motor vehicle (perhaps motorcycles aside) - for every 100 trips you make drunk and get home just safely, perhaps there's just that 1 where another driver, a cyclist, or a pedestrian is somewhere they shouldn't be and you're unable to react as fast as you should. When you sign up for a driver's license, you sign up to be a bitch to the legal system; it's for your own safety and others', whether or not you like it.

Now, understand, I am completely against spending $85,000 each on robocop cars with a WMD detectors. Whether they last 250,000 or 70,000 miles, this seems to be an unnecessary commodity. Faster cop cars might allow cops to more effectively neutralize extremely reckless drivers before they take anyone's life, but dammit we spend enough money on this stuff already, do we really need to pour our tax funds into this?

I may seem hypocritical, because while I do oppose this car (if I ever see one of these bizarre monstrosities on the road I'll know it's a sad day), I do see reasoning behind many of its features - and I note the WMD detector is not one of them. However, most of the posts people have made regarding the topic border on paranoia - if there's a license plate reader, it means they'll look through each person's entire life story and then pull them over if they find something they don't like, if they have a bomb sniffer for finding chemical or biological weapons, it means they'll use it for weed, etc. etc. If any of these actually happen, I fully take back all I've said and accept my opinion as wrong, but until one does it's merely speculation based off a very few facts.

I don't mean to flame, but come on, cops are not minions of the devil sent to infringe on liberties and rights. However, I still stand that we don't need cop cars that are decades ahead of current standards for $85k a pop.

I know the government is far from perfect but I'd still rather live in the States than most any other place.

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Originally Posted by higher4hockey

the combine....is that a 'one flew over the cuckoos nest' reference?

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No It was outta shinlerslist. And they had other Jews working in the death camps telling the people to go in the "showers".

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Originally Posted by video100

Man fuck the police, all they do is give good people criminal records for breaking crazy laws like having drugs, driving after drinking a fair amount of alcohol, riding on unregistered license plates, self defense, etc. I say there shouldn't be any police, just let everyone have the right to carry a gun and I believe that people will think twice about trying to do something wrong because of the fear of being shot

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Been proven time and time again that this works 99% of the time. Several towns and citys across the United states have laws that you have to have a firearm in your possesion, and there is virtully no crime what so ever. Ask your self this are so safe anywhere 100 percent? Nope.

yeah i was pissed when i saw this on CNN.. as well Carbon motors isn't the only vehicle, see attached..

i feel like this is an invasion of privacy.. while it can scan and read for valid plates and such, it automatically brings up stored information on that vehicle, such as the last time it was pulled over and by who... and if they're able to get a photo id on drivers when they input the info in, they can match if the driver of the car is the same driver that got pulled over as recalled in the stored information (hypothetically speaking)

like, dad owns the car but the son drives it.. they pull up information on the car, see the last time it was pulled over for a crime of some sort and by who, match the face on the screen wit the face in the window, and god forbid it was a posession charge the kid was busted with.. they can simply tail the kid til he makes a mistake from being to scared of a cop behind'm..

and i know that once cops recognize somebody they got before, they'll keep their eye on them as long as they're in field of vision..

this kind of technology makes police-work too personal..

ya know, they usually say that if its available to the gov't, a consumer friendly version is available for the people.. i say we modify our vehicles, put our own cameras and mic's in the car and all that stuff.. wouldnt it be awesome to have a camera with like 20x zoom so you can see further down the highway if some jackass trooper is stickin out by the bushes with his radar gun or hiding within the flow of traffic a few carlengths ahead or behind? wouldnt it be awesome to have ur own cameras in the car recording what the officer is doing during his 'search and seizure' or what have you?

I got busted once and the cops didnt have a dash cam to record the bullshit they were puttin me through outside the vehicle, then they tried to briefly interrogate me in the police vehicle which obviously has mics in it.. I wish i had it recorded, cus I probably could've gotten off on a technicality..

We the people never get video or audio recording to our defense, its always used against us.. And it just so happens that they're used ever so methodically..

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If you drive drunk or go 90 in a 45, your chances of getting in an accident and therefore of hurting/killing people are dramatically higher. If you have outstanding dui's and speeding tickets, maybe that hints that you should not be driving, regardless of whether you actually obey the rules when around police.

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There are plenty of people charged with DUI, for simply sitting in their car listening to the music or watching a dvd on their dashboard screen, or radio-partying in a lot, all thanks to the key-in-the-ignition rule. They're placed in the same category as the people swerving all over the road, and by this you imply unjust suggestions that they too are undeserving of driving priveledges.

The simplest DUIs remain on ur record for 10 years minimum, before you can have the court expunge those records (thats if its misdemeanor). This says that those people who paid their $750 Driver Responsibility fees, $1000 court fines, and withdrew their driving priveledges for said duration, are still subject to scrutiny, years after their mishap for leaving the car on at the campgrounds while having a good night out. This implies that they've might not have learned their lesson, years or so down the road, even if their record was clean before that incident or after, which doesnt leave much room for influence on the hand that maybe they DID learn their lesson. Its unfair.

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Most police, despite the occasional slip-ups and enforcement of laws outside of their control for which members of this forum seem to crucify them, are trying to protect citizens from different forms of harm. When this comes to driving, I take it very seriously - if you drive when you're drunk and don't care, you will ALWAYS be the bigger asshole than the cop that arrests you, even if you were driving within the traffic norms. Again, most people simply don't recognize the sheer quantity of destruction one can inflict with any motor vehicle (perhaps motorcycles aside) - for every 100 trips you make drunk and get home just safely, perhaps there's just that 1 where another driver, a cyclist, or a pedestrian is somewhere they shouldn't be and you're unable to react as fast as you should. When you sign up for a driver's license, you sign up to be a bitch to the legal system; it's for your own safety and others', whether or not you like it.

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Most police are trying to go for their quota, and maintain a relative balance in that part of the community they're in. Alot of them tend to get an impression of a driver, and pull them over on a technicality to get personal with them (trying to catch any vibes whatsoever). I agree that you'll look like a complete asshole drunk behind the wheel, but pullovers aren't all about that. I know a person who while driving within traffic norms was pulled over, because it appeared as if they were smoking a joint (which was a handrolled tobacco cigarette), but the technical reason for the pull over was the sound of the muffler............the muffler...... cops will make up anything to constitute some kind of probable cause...

I believe people have a fair understanding of what a 2-3ton metal vehicle at high velocity can do. From a 2,000lb vehicle to a 5gram metal bullet, to grains of powder.. or volumes of liquid for that matter. When it comes down to destruction and damage, its measure is only given by the person dealing it.. Intent is the key. Intent is what they look for. Intent is often misjudged. While no man has the right to judge, (as according to many religious books) but the judge himself or jury (as according to legal standards), the officer will simply put u on the processing line with a biased presentation of your incident or situation.

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Originally Posted by Light It Up

Most police, despite the occasional slip-ups and enforcement of laws outside of their control for which members of this forum seem to crucify them, are trying to protect citizens from different forms of harm.

I don't mean to flame, but come on, cops are not minions of the devil sent to infringe on liberties and rights.

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I dont know what nice little community you live in, but around in So Cal., the cops are all about harrassment, and what you call occasional slip-ups...we call cops planting evidence to build a case or straight extortion all together. I have spent many years in both So. Cal and Chicago and can say from first hand that the MASS MAJORITY of cops I have ever seen/delt with, are completly dirty to the bone. We are far from the days of cops helping old ladies get thier cat out of a tree. Have you never heard of Rampart division, Miami Dade Vice or Signal Hill P.D.? These are not just isolated incidents. :wtf:

ive known about these for a long time now. im a mechanic by trade and i like to stay informed on what the new technologys are comin about in cars and about a year ago i started hear of these. they sound real scary. unless of course we are all good boys and girls and do absolulty nothin illegal.

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Originally Posted by sheist

There are plenty of people charged with DUI, for simply sitting in their car listening to the music or watching a dvd on their dashboard screen, or radio-partying in a lot, all thanks to the key-in-the-ignition rule. They're placed in the same category as the people swerving all over the road, and by this you imply unjust suggestions that they too are undeserving of driving priveledges.



I believe people have a fair understanding of what a 2-3ton metal vehicle at high velocity can do. From a 2,000lb vehicle to a 5gram metal bullet, to grains of powder.. or volumes of liquid for that matter. When it comes down to destruction and damage, its measure is only given by the person dealing it.. Intent is the key. Intent is what they look for. Intent is often misjudged. While no man has the right to judge, (as according to many religious books) but the judge himself or jury (as according to legal standards), the officer will simply put u on the processing line with a biased presentation of your incident or situation.

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Well said, but I definitely do not agree with the fair understanding bit, it's true that the judicial system has some situational objectivism. The fair understanding aspect - out of all the accidents that occur, how many do you think are the responsibility of a stupid mistake made by one of the drivers? Someone's texting, someone's trying to do 5 things at one, someone's drunk, whatever it is - I have no idea how many accidents this accounts for, but I'd guess it's enough to effectively demonstrate people's lack of understanding the damage potential of vehicles.



Now, regarding those car-radio DUI's and those dirty so-cal cops, I don't know - I don't live where you live - but I'd guess the only cops you are pulled over by for bs reasons are the ones on the bad end of the spectrum. How many cops do you really know, honestly; do you ever go talk to people up at the police station? For the DUI's, yes it's of course true there are some stupid ones. But do you really think the majority of drunk drivers arrested really were just sitting with the key in the ignition?

I'm not saying any of these problems are non-existent, I'm just saying make sure you're taking the whole picture into perspective before casting judgement. Being forced to break the law naturally makes some of us biased towards it .