which is better? 24/0 or 18/6? I've heard root growth is better on 18/6, but 24/0 seems to make more since. I was wondering if anyone had experience/knowlege on this subject?
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which is better? 24/0 or 18/6? I've heard root growth is better on 18/6, but 24/0 seems to make more since. I was wondering if anyone had experience/knowlege on this subject?
I couldn't tell you exactly which is the best but from doing a lot of reading around forums, it seems that most people go with 18/6. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by fluid69
Which is better? It depends on who you ask... :D
Some growers swear by the 24/0 schedule, saying that growth is more explosive, especially a couple weeks into veg. Others say that roots experience the most efficient growth during dark periods. I don't think either explanation is written in stone, but neither seem to be all that harmful to the plants.
I've tried both, and didn't really notice much difference either way. I prefer 18/6 now, if for no other reason than the undisputed fact that it saves me money on my electricity bill. :jointsmile:
yeah I figured most people went with 18/6 to save money on the power bill or help with heat issues. I just wonder if it does help root production. I couldn't help but notice in your quote that stinky seemed to be indorsing 24/0, and we all know stinky's the man!
Haha, that's so true... and so obvious... guess that's probably why I didn't even notice it. I'm oblivious to all things obvious. :jointsmile:Quote:
Originally Posted by fluid69
Oh, and Stinky's a lady. :thumbsup:
well she's a gifted lady. truely a wealth of knowledge.
I use 24/0, works great!
:thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by fluid69
sweet! your 3000th post was in honor of stinky on 420. hells yeah!
My thoughts exactly. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by fluid69
the best way to test would be to start from clones and weigh root mass. the lights being the only variable.
Some well-known cultivator(s) has endorsed the 20/4 schedule... I tried it and it seemed to work very well. :thumbsup:
20/4 nice , split the difference. I wonder what the different breeders use? logic seems that since breeders hand select plants for their traits, that some strains may prefer one or the other. lighting schedules would be some good info for breeders to include with their seeds, atleast the indoor strains.
There is no ..."better"...IMO. 18 hours is the standard minimun for vegging growth.Quote:
Originally Posted by fluid69
Choosing a light cycle that fits your grow room/cabinet/closet is the key.
The climate of your area is a factor. Hot climate?.. in the summertime?...18/6 is a nice break from the heat ..(the plants grow 'better')
Cold climate in the wintertime?...24/0 helps keep temps warm/stable 78-82 degrees....(plants grow 'better')
Anybody, understand what I am saying?...or am I just whistling dixie?
Bottom line is anything from 16 to 24 hours of light is fine. The difference in growth rates are insignificant. If I were starting my first garden I'd probably go 24/0 on vegging hoping to get started sooner. But still no big deal. I just have this nagging thought in the back of my head that the plants like some dark time.
Well, beat it to death with a bat. Cannabis is a C3 plant. It requires no dark time at all during veg. The more dark you give it, the slower it is growing. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by grey1223
Dutch Pimp,Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutch Pimp
I understand exactly what you are saying....it really is a matter of what works best for the situation. No one time schedule is better. And climate concerns can drive that decision.
In a new grow set-up with a friend, we are dealing with a basement in a building with no heat. (temps as low as 40F) Running the mom and clone room at 24/0 was the only way to go to maintain temps in that room.
In my own basement set-up I use 18/6 for my moms, unless I need to speed them up to keep to schedules, then it's 24/0. The big advantage to 18/6 in my set-up is that during the 6 hours the lights are off in the mother room, those plants are taking in oxygen and giving off CO2. The air inlet to my bloom room is from the mom's room, so I get 6 hours of elevated CO2 levels. (for the other 6 hours they get a "fuzz-puck")
Rock On...oldmac....:thumbsup:
Or was that 4-20?
If it is true that roots develop better in the dark, then cloning is best done with SOME dark period. However for full on VEG growth I agree that 24 would be best. I don't need things to grow any faster then they are already.:thumbsup:
Hey Dutch, I do the same thing bro. 24/0 in the winter and 18/6 in the summer. Works great with temp stablization!
Taking in oxygen and giving off CO2 ?????????Quote:
Originally Posted by oldmac
I was kinda wondering about that myself...Quote:
Originally Posted by grey1223
Ah.. Don't plants take in CO2 and give off Oxygen? Isn't that the nice things about plants? :)
Put the bong down and step away from the keyboard :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordDrow
haha
Dear Grey1223, syde00, LordDrow, etal;
Durring the lights on photoperiod yours plants run mostly on CO2. It is why some people supplement it to thier grows. BUT when the lights go out and your plants are in the dark or night photoperiod thier respiration reverses and they start using oxygen and putting out CO2.
This is why the ambient CO2 levels are higher at night then during ther day.
(this is the main reason people say they sleep so well when they visit "the country" in the summer. They usually say "the fresh air makes me sleep so good", in reality it's the higher levels of CO2 at night doing it)
Maybe you've noticed that the grow smell in a bloom room is usually worst about 1/2hr to 1hr after your lights come on, that's because your plants had a little extra CO2 to work with from the dark period.
See, get to learn something new every day. Your all welcome.
An old-timer once told me that if you take care of the roots, the flowers will be brighter, and smell better. (he was talking about roses) I've found nothing since then to dispute that insight. In giving light 24 hours a day, are we stressing the root system by not allowing the daily rest period it's had for 10,000 years?
My thoughts on dark periods: (not to be confused as fact) Cannabis genetics were not established in the extreme southern or northern hemispheres, where there is sun for three months straight. I'm guessing that since there has been an established dark period for thousands of years...the plant is using the dark periods for something. (plants don't sleep, do they? or perhaps they sleep during the heat of day, and work at night...? :wtf: )
And since the plant is drawing moisture to replenish plant respiration during the day, (and nutrients, carbs, carbon...) seems to make sense to me that it's repairs and growth are happening on the night shift.
-or-
It makes no difference, but was a nice theory.
Either way...I go 18/6 with healthy, consistent results. :thumbsup:
Yes, however wouldn't it be best to test tune his area. Just because MJ is c3 doesnt mean the area has the proper airflow, co2 ppm, etc to benefit from 24/0. I do it because I have seen the growth is much better with my setup.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fencewalker
I quoted the whole enchilada, 'cause it bears repeating.Quote:
Originally Posted by oldmac
If yer gonna,:weedpoke:, Ya need, to read.
That, or ask an old fart who reads :greenthumb:
Respect.
Weeze
That's some good info up there...I just learned something new :D:DQuote:
Originally Posted by Weezard
Hey Weez,
Did you just call me an old fart????
OH....never mind......
(walks away muttering to himself)...I do resemble that remark.
I have tried to 24/0 method and have had great success. The plant was very stretchy.
My electric bill went way up. I am running 15 100 watt cfls.
I then went to my local hydroponics shop and purchased a product called Liquid light
h**p://www.dutchmaster.com.au/?language=english&page=product&product=LIQUID_LIGH T
I followed the directions to the letter on a 18/6 schedule and its better then a 24/0 schedule!
I will stand on liquid light. I will never grow tomatoes without it again.
Tomatoes are DENSE,THICK, And OOZING with flavor! ;)
It runs about 60 bucks for a liter. expensive? maybe! But 1 table spoon per gallon of water and folar spray 2 times a week. It gets very cheap and well worth the effort and extra cost!
Hope I helped.
my ladies look very tired after a long day, droopy leves and such, but at first light they reach and look happy, so i use a dark period. and clone in 24-0 but thats for temp stabilization
my lighting periods are different per strains sativas i try to run 15-16 hours light for veg and 10 -11 hours light for bloom on some strains it changes the pheno almost to where you cant tell what it is, more sativa-y
indicas get the 18-12 deal veg flr
Hot damn.Quote:
Originally Posted by oldmac
By theory, dark cycle during the daylight hours and light cycle during night hours would be better.The plants would make use of the higher CO2 levels in the night time with the lights ON. Fresh cool air from the outside night time might even add to the rich oily stank.
It's very late, and I'm :stoned:
begood
be
I couldn't choose, so I went in the middle, using a 20/4 cycle lol.
:DI just come across this thread that actually has some figures on the difference in root mass.
http://boards.cannabis.com/grow-faqs...ut-lights.html
here's a quote: " Light Cycles
The dark cycle is very important to plants. Respiration (this is when plants are making energy from sugar to oxygen) Continues in dark but at a much slower pace, almost independent of available oxygen because the leaves are not making oxygen in the dark.
In the dark there is a shift from leaf production to root production as the leaves transfer excess energy down to the branches and roots. Therefore, some dark time allows for better root structures. The "Experimental Root Growth 10 Days After Cutting" graph on page 33 shows that giving plants a 24-hour light cycle is not the way to supercharge growth"
This is from "How to supercharge your garden" With the graph on page 33 this follows...
"Light period for cuttings
Plants have a free running internal bio-rhythm of 21-27 hours. In this rhythm, they need dark time. Cuttings have a built in daily rhythm (age also) that they inherit from their parent. Cuttings will root better with a 6 hours to 8 hour dark period because this is the main time when leaves and the stems transfer energy down to the root zone for storage and growth."
The chart has hours of light per day on the bottom, and length of roots in millimeters.
-@ 4hours of light the roots after ten days were only 22mm long
-@ 8 hours of light after 10 days the roots were 25 mm long
-@12 hours of light we shoot up to 40mm long
-@16 hours it peaks at 50mm
-@20 hours it drops down to 37mm
-@ 24 hours it drops down to 29mm
There is also a shit load of info regarding root to yield ratio vs veg to yield ratio, and draws the conclusion that at the end of the experiments the root to yield ratio was higher....."
The only thing that's missing is the 18/6, but I think the evidence is there for the dark period. If it works that good on clones, I'm sure it's better for vegging plants. I went 24/0 this time and everything was fine, but my next grow (and especially for my clones), I'm gonna go 18/6.
Really did not want to go down this path...again but I can't help myself, I need to comment.Quote:
Originally Posted by fluid69
This first quote is wrong scientifically: Respiration is REVERSED during the dark period. The plant STOPS taking in CO2 and giving off Oxygen (during the photoperiod regardless of length) and takes in Oxygen and gives off CO2 during the dark period. All C3 plants do this. And "sugar to oxygen" oh please dear God spare me! Read a horticultural textbook or take a class in school.
(directed at original post, not you fluid69)
Anything stated as a fact after that is useless BS.
I have been doing "asexual propagation via cuttings" (clonning is actually micro-propagation or tissue culture) for a long time and my personal observations differ a bunch from what's reported here.
Photoperiod and amount of dark period is a matter of what works best for an individual, the strain they are working with and enviromental considerations.
No one photo period is "BEST" for all situations. I use 18/6 for my mom's in one grow and 24/0 (just changed to 20/4) in another.
I was thinking that the other day, no matter what light period you grow on your plants will all act differently, some for the better and some for the worse. Like growing hybrids, some phenos come out better than others in a particular strain. So saying root mass grew better on one plant to another like that is hard to relate considering each cutting is going to respond differently to root growth size.Quote:
Originally Posted by oldmac
Another thing I was thinking of is, they say put cuttings under fluorescent 24/0 for first 10-14 days to establish better rots (Jorge Cervantes recommends that also in his DVD I think) . If that is the case, then that just blew away the theory that the light cycle at 18/6 is better than 24/0.
It's time to make this thread a 'sticky'...:thumbsup:...is there a MOD in the house?
Hey Dutch,
Before we sticky it, it should be noted that while roots are in the "dark" all the time, they do not grow during the dark period, only during the photoperiod.
As Italiano715 points out, Cervantes and other expert authors on mj cultivation, recommend 24/0 of floro, for starting cuttings. I go one step further and use actinic white for the first few days then the 6000k floros.
Very blue light stimulates the hormones associated with root growth. This could also be accomplished with LEDs with a high blue to red ratio, or even all blue. This stimulation can only take place during a photoperiod.
And I get some pleasure from seeing the light bulb go on above some peoples heads when they read some basic information, and see how they can use it to thier advantage.
Congrats BeFree, I think you just saw the light.
Since StinkyAttic left...we are like a ship without a rudder in the grow forums...:(
Stinky, Zandor, latewood, or del...please come back...we are sinking fast. We are a ship without a Captain...the crew is fine, but we need a leader...:thumbsup: