saving a worthy girl..

H=Answer if you grow hydro or aero
C=Answer if you grow coco
S=Answer if you grow traditional soil
L=Answer if you grow soilless other than coco (Promix, Hyponex, SunshineMix)
R=Answer if you grow in RockWool
T=Answer if you grow in HydroTon
D=Answer if you run any type of automatic drip system, including into soil or soilless
E= EVERYONE needs to answer lol!


E-indoor
E-soil
CSL- fox farm happy frog
SCL-Anything you have added to the soil
SCLR-unknown
E-tap
E-7.8-8.0
HRT-Source water EC (if hydro)
E- mother is over one year, cuttings about 2 months
E- bio-grow, bio-bloom, bud-swel, 1-1-16 technaflora seaweed extract
E-Rate of application = 3 liters every 2 days
E-Lighting source and distance from plant= 250 watt switchable (hps right now) about 15-18 inches
E-Air temperature =76-79f
E-Air % Relative humidity= 27-37%
E-24/7
E-fresh air in from outside via inline fan, exhaust is scrubbed and vented into room that closet is located in via blower fan
TR-Did you pre-soak your media in pH corrected solution?= no but my water is phed down to 6.2 with earth juice ph down before nutes are added


so the story starts feb 08,
i received 10 clones which i vegged for awhile some were placed outside (6), some were flowered inside under my 250 (3) and one was kept as a mother for clone production and future flowering.
so the mother plant was taken out of cfl veg (she was neglected for a time and nearly died due to not being watered) re-potted into fox farm happy frog and was fed bio grow (3ml per liter) for a period of about 2-4 weeks.
it was at this point that i started noticing that some lower leaves were staying green but drying out and becoming crunchy, i also began to notice that other leaves in the same area began to show yellow patches in between the veins turning to brown with eventually the entire leaf turning black and crunchy. then it traveled up the plant and began affecting new growth
i checked my tap waters' ph with a liquid ph kit and found it to be nearly 8.0
i checked the runoff at this point as well and found it to be around 7.0
i began adjusting my waters' ph down to 6.0-6.5 and flushed for about a week
the yellowing and necrosis seemed to stop for a period of time, cuttings were taken and the plant was put into 12/12.
slowly the yellowing/browning/ necrosis began to come back on old and new growth but not to the point where i felt i needed to do much about it. flowering continued as normal.
the cuttings were placed in peat pellets after being dipped in clonex gel and placed in a humidity dome under cfl lighting.
here the cuttings were quick to root but the same problem continued even after being transplanted. their growth is sparatic with the problem seeming to get worse as the cuttings aged. some of them started shooting new growth up from the base of the plant and the rest of the original cutting(stem and all) suffering from necrosis.

meanwhile... the one year old mother that has been flowered is now revegging with tons of fresh healthy shoots just waiting to become new plants . the problem is now (after a month of revegging) im starting to notice some yellowing and even some browning in some of the older revegetative growth, no necrosis yet but im sure its on the way.

what to do?
i've never had a def. problem like this when mixing up my own soil....is happy frog just total crap or what? could my nutes be expired (seems worse during veg)? should i flush and get some cal mag plus?....is my humidity so low that the plant is transpiring its self to death?
i dont wanna plant any beans until i get this straightened out and the outdoor season is quickly approaching.
PLEASE HELP!!!!!:wtf:

I've used happy frog before with good results.


the crunchy leaves sound like a nute problem. too much something. maybe N -- are the leaves a deep dark green and feel coarser than normal?

the necrotic leaves.. maybe related but taking a long shot -- problem sounds like it might be a fungus infection. not PM, but something like black spot or rust spot.



if it is a fungus infection, you can use Ortho's Rose Pride on her. follow the directions and HEALTH Safety. It is a systemic fugicide. Her cuttings should grow just fine w/out chemical issues.



I hope someone proves me wrong here....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MdmPele

the necrotic leaves.. maybe related but taking a long shot -- problem sounds like it might be a fungus infection. not PM, but something like black spot or rust spot.

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Doubtful, as humidity is reportedly too low.

Most likely it's an overnute situation, or too many additives. If you were to list all products you use, quantiities and schedules for you vegging ladies, and your flowering ladies, I'm sure we can figure it out. (will require seperate details for each light schedule) :thumbsup:

as always thanks for the replies!
well my feeding schedule is pretty simple and i never stopped to think i could be over feeding so here it is....
veg:
products used: bio-grow 1.8-0.1-6.6, technaflora soluable seaweed extract 1-1-16
every 2-3 days i check the soil for dryness, early in veg i use 2 ml of bio grow per liter applied with a turkey baster, two weeks before flowering is induced the seaweed extract is added at 1/4 strength for every other watering and the bio grow increased to 5 ml per liter

flower:
products used: bio-bloom 1-3-2, liquid budswel .01-0.1-0.01, technaflora seaweed extract 1-1-16
every 2-3 days i check soil for dryness, early in flower i use no bio bloom, 1/4 strength seaweed extract(every 3 waterings) and 20 ml of budswel per 3 liters of water, 2-3 weeks into flowering the bio-bloom is introduced at a rate of 5 ml per liter along with the 20ml budswel, at 5 weeks the budswel is increased to 35 ml per 3 liters and the seaweed is removed from the equation, followed by flushing when the trichromes tell me so (75 amber, 25 cloudy) until harvest.
this plant were talking about was harvested at 60 days
mabye its time for a flushing with some distilled water??root trimming and repotting??

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rusty Trichome

Doubtful, as humidity is reportedly too low.

Most likely it's an overnute situation, or too many additives. If you were to list all products you use, quantiities and schedules for you vegging ladies, and your flowering ladies, I'm sure we can figure it out. (will require seperate details for each light schedule) :thumbsup:

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thanx Rusty!

Where to start...

First off...You'll need a really good flush with properly ph'd water.

This is a prime example of why we shouldn't chose different nutrients from different companies. This 'doubling-up' of nutrients, metals, hormones, vitamins and micronutes...not good at all.
Always check the ingredients in the products you chose to apply to our ladies, not the marketing-driven description of what the product may provide your plants. (complete honesty is not always their goal...but selling product is)

Techniflora: "natural source of over 60 chelated nutrients, vitamins, amino acids and hormones"
Bio-Grow: "Enriched with 70 trace elements and vitamins B1, B2, C and E, Bio-Grow is a complete fertilizer."
Budswell: "a mix of high-phosphorus bat guano, worm castings and seabird guano"

Would love to see pictures of your ladies before offering any advise beyond the flush, but continuing with these nutes will frustrate the crap out of you, and you'll never get quality results.

If you can, go get a 3-part (in three seperate bottles) nutrient system. (grow, micro, bloom) BioBizz, Botanicare, Fox Farms...(for instance) all have nutes that work well for cannabis, and if you use the same companies products throughout your grow, you usually wont have this overlapping of excessive nutes and shit.
(The Techniflora is reportedly full of heavy metals, which builds-up and can kill plants if excessive)

Any pictures?

Also...good luck on waiting till trichomes are 75% rusty. 10% rusty trichomes is fine, and beyond that are diminishing returns. (your shit will go downhill fast) By the time they reach 75%, your buds will be full of popcorn seeds. (over-maturing is a good way to force her into hermaphrodism...which is not good)

thanks for the quality advice rusty!
actually i've used these nutes like this for 2 other harvest and they came out great. the bio grow and bio bloom are pretty much empty and i've been wanting to try something so this is the perfect reason to start fresh.
ill get her flushed and healthy before i cut clones.

a quick question though, would this be a good time to try some root ball trimming? or would it be too much stress for the revegging old beauty?
the plant was showing signs of needing repotted. she's in a 12inch square planter and it would be nice to get her into some fresh soil.

about the pics though, i have a camera but i havent bought a new card reader since i lost my old one, mabye one day...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wman44

actually i've used these nutes like this for 2 other harvest and they came out great. the bio grow and bio bloom are pretty much empty and i've been wanting to try something so this is the perfect reason to start fresh.

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Cool. Regardless of your claims, it's still not recommended to mix manufacturers...for reasons previously stated.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wman44

a quick question though, would this be a good time to try some root ball trimming? or would it be too much stress for the revegging old beauty?
the plant was showing signs of needing repotted. she's in a 12inch square planter and it would be nice to get her into some fresh soil.

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Once established in veg...I try not to mess with the roots if possible. How about a transplant into a 14" container, or are 5 gallon pots too large for your situation?

If truly necessary, trimming the roots is acceptable, but it will result in a stunted plant that takes forever to 'catch-up'. (can take three weeks or more to recover from the mid-cycle root-assault)

Quote:

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Cool. Regardless of your claims, it's still not recommended to mix manufacturers...for reasons previously stated.

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rusty,i will heed your quality advice(the reason i use this site and not others), but your condescending tone kinda rubs me the wrong way.Just because I chose not to post pics does not make these "claims" as i would not waste time from my busy schedule to get on a forum and lie. experienced growers shit smells just as bad as a newb's or even someone whose in between...
with that said.....
were about a week into the flushing (i've flushed 3 times, 2 gallons every 2-3 days)
last night i decided to do a little monitoring of what was happening in my soil
tap water is at 7.0-7.2
i use earth juice ph down to bring the ph down to 6.0
i flushed one gallon of water, the runoff was brown/yellowish but very translucent. this runoff was tossed and another gallon of ph adjusted water was used, this time the runoff was even clearer but still had a yellow tint to it.
i checked the ph of the runoff and i cant be 100% sure of it due to the tint of the water being tested,but the ph read at, get this.........7.5!!!
:wtf:........
also the yellowing/browning/curling/blackening of the leaf and leaf tips seemed to be getting better for the first few days but now it seems to be coming back....
again thank you in advance for any thoughts/comments/suggestions

i don't need to defend rusty,nor am i trying to. what i think he's saying is no matter how good your harvests were, or that you think that were (not an insult) that they could have been better if you stick to one set of products. that's the way they are intended to work.

for example too much zinc or copper are toxic for your plant and can cause death of your ladies.

those are trace elements, so they are needed only in trace amounts. if two of the three or more of your products have these elements in them can you now start to see how this could possibly start to be harmful to your ladies.

you also fail to mention previous strains you grew then, or are growing now. keep in mind that different strains can have very different needs. (nutritional, light, what have you)

-shake

the strain im growing now is bella chaio
the others i have grown are NL, white widow, and sweet tooth. all but the sweet tooth were ordered through dr.cronix
i totally understand what rusty is saying, i've learned alot from him and stinky over the last year, i just think he could have worded his response differently.Kinda made me feel like i was being called a liar, can you tell im out of meds today??....lol

on a side note.....what do you think would be a better investment since im gearing up for the outdoor season and will be doing another indoor soon.

GH flora series or Flora Nova?
any organic suggestions?.....mabye ill just stick to super tea and budswel??

honestly, i'm not far enough along in experience to personally recommend anything to you. i've been using miracle grow and some other cheap home depot flower nutes. although i did just get my fox farm stuff in the mail.

with that being said, i hear really good things about the GH flora stuff. and i believe that some of the fox farm lineup is organic. but definitely don't buy on my advtice for reasons stated above. rusty or somebody will point you in the right direction.

also, keep in mind that a lot of advice is given, some of which is not heeded by a lot of people around here. a lot of the advice is given over and over. people don't want to read or take the time to try to answer their own questions. with that being said, the handful of people giving good, solid advice, end up giving it all of theses "noobs" (me included, not necessarily you) over and over. so sometimes the mood of the person giving the advice might not be where it should be. think about a teacher saying the same thing to each individual student repeatedly.

hope your lady gets better!

-shake

pics coming soon :thumbsup:
so i've been flushing the plant with ph corrected water for what...about 2 or 3 weeks now, problem doesnt seem to be getting any better or any worse, growth has stopped and runoff ph is finally getting down from the 7.2 or so it was running , its down to 6.6-6.8, im thinking ill transplant into a 5 gallon growbag with some fresh soil and see how she recoversl.
i decided to start fresh and pop some beans so once those are coming up ill finally start a real grow log with pics so i can finally take advantage of this resource (even though im still kinda sketched out about posting pics)
happy 4:20!!!!!:rastasmoke:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wman44

rusty,i will heed your quality advice(the reason i use this site and not others), but your condescending tone kinda rubs me the wrong way.Just because I chose not to post pics does not make these "claims" as i would not waste time from my busy schedule to get on a forum and lie. experienced growers shit smells just as bad as a newb's or even someone whose in between

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I'm not here because I have to be here. I do this of my own free will and I am here as a regular member attempting to share solid gardening techniques, to those that whine and complain about social graces.

I call 'em like I see 'em. But if you have no proof, you have no proof. However, if you can free yourself from your busy schedule, how about unbunching your panties, as drama queens should really have no panty lines. (busy schedule...that's a good one...as if I give a shit about her/his busy schedule, lol)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wman44

i totally understand what rusty is saying, i've learned alot from him and stinky over the last year, i just think he could have worded his response differently.Kinda made me feel like i was being called a liar, can you tell im out of meds today??....

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Would you like to come type my responses for me?

I'm not here to be your best friend, I'm not here for popularity, and I'm not your shrink. If you want to be stroked and told all is well...give Obama a call. But if you make statements, you damn well need to be ready to back-up those statements. And for all I know you quite possibly could be a liar. Prove me wrong. :jointsmile:

First, I saw nothing off bout the "regardless of claim" in the response from rusty...clearly a choice to put their own negative interpretation to this when only meant to mean "despite you having previous good luck with your process as you "claim"(are telling us). It all comes down to this, If you are not stiff spined enough and cant handle a "straight forward", type individual, then you are not going to get far in this socialy diverse community called CannabisCom. Hell, Rusty could have really taken it to ya for the reasons Shake mentioned, most answers to plant probs are asked and answered on many fronts here....look for yourself and see. I honestly think Rusty and many others, including myself, still reply because they enjoy helping others and have a special love for these green godesses. Suck it up and appoligise to Rusty for jumping to conclusions and he will prob still help in future. Lets get back to what is important...the girls

Apology not necessary at this time, but I reserve the right to change my mind. :jointsmile:

There is a quote in my signature that covers this. It translates loosely to: If you are going into a debate, likely you shouldn't go unarmed. I come armed with facts and experience, and I welcome intelligent discourse. But I will call-out bullshit when I see it, too.

Granted, my approach isn't politically correct, but political correctness is for fools and idiots that care about image over substance. I seek no approval. I seek no recognition. I get no pay. I seek nothing but to edumicate y'all on proper gardening techniques. Wanna whine about it...? You can join the club of others that remain unteachable, and increase your chances of failing miserably.

Good luck. :thumbsup: