help my plants are dying... high quality pics.

hey guys, ive been posting on mulitple forums and still not a single person knows whats going on in the tent here...

heres the story and details...

400wMH 14-24inches, in a homebox tent. 18/6

in happy frog soil. many different brands of fertilizer, all high grade stuff..

i am using R/o water, and i add 1 tsp/calmag/gallon

i adjust ph to 6.5-6.3 as it goes in..

when i first recognized this problem about a month ago, i have been trying to fix it ever since, at first i thought it was lockouut/nuteburn...

Then i thought it was a cal mag deficiency, now im wondering if there is too much calcium/mag.... it has not signs of nute burn, and actually responded pretty well to the post flush feed, but im afraid to keep giving them nutes and end up giving them too much.

ive run through every pic on the web of phosphorus def, potass. def., mag, cal... low ph, high ph... nothing.

maybe someone here can atleast ask some questions, in the past no one even asks me questions.............. how am i sussposed to get help when 60ppl look at my thread over 3 days and no one responds, even after bumping it 2wice...



i

heres more pics

Clearly nute burn, my guess is from the "many different brands of fertilizer". Even if it is "all high grade stuff", you can still give too much. Do you know how much of each different brand of fertilizer you have been giving and at what ratios?

more pics

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Originally Posted by dejayou30

Clearly nute burn, my guess is from the "many different brands of fertilizer". Even if it is "all high grade stuff", you can still give too much. Do you know how much of each different brand of fertilizer you have been giving and at what ratios?

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i have some chemical, and some organic, as im in the mode of swtiching to all foxfarm products, but the organics i would feed at full strength of recommended dose... as for the chemical nute, i feed at 1/4-1/2strength as recommended... every 1-3 feeding i water with plain r/o water w/ 1 tsp of cal mag.

heres the brands.. davids grow, which is a simply hydro nute that comes in a grow-bloom-base, grow 7-0-0, bloom 0-4-7 or 0-7-4, and the base has all micronutes and trace elements...

I have biobizz bloom(great stuff, but not quite foxfarm good, foxfarm has a fert with both organic and chemical but offer multiple kinds of phosphorus. and botanicare pure blend grow(which i was told is good, but salty)

i go lite with those hydro nutes b/c, well they are for hydro but they are the perfect form of usable nutrients when u need them 'now'

as i go forward i will be using only foxfarm products.. happyfrog plus their own nutes, on their schedual....

but as i said, i originally thought it was nute burn, but it looks a lot like the pics of radiation damage from that problem solving link with the brown yellow rust spots, but the leaves all curl up once they're dead... I am almost positive it is deficiency of some kind because when i added nutes to the ones i flushed they responed well initially but couldnt hold its vigor.

maybe it is burn, but u know that burn mark u get on the very very tip of the leaf, these leafs dont have that, which tells me right away its not nute burn, but i might be wrong.

i go very lite on the nutes and that why i speculate its deficiency, but the reason i doubt its a deficency is because it is in happy frog which has ALOT of stuff in it to keep ur plants going for a while... which then leads to salt build up/ lockout, but i flushed 2 of the plants really well 3 weeks ago, and they all still have the same symptoms.

i need these to come around...

what if i watered half with just r/o water w/ 1tsp calmg/gln

and the other half with full strength nutes?

What could i conclude if i still see new growth uglify. on both sides of the variable.

Have you foliar fed them or spayed any water or mister on them ? I got a buddy that just foliar fed some and he thought everyday was okay but after 3or4 days the started to look like that and then got worse.

If not I would just give them all R/O water and no calmag either untill you see a difference.

Oh are they too wet ? My bro has been fighting root rot and that is the look on the leaves before they start turning yellow. You may want to dry them out.

Well hopefully one of the resident pros can back me up on this, but I am 99.9% sure what you have there is bad nute burn. I have a DWC that I was feeding too hard and the leaves started to look exactly like that, dry, rusted looking, and crispy with the edges curling up. I lowered my PPMs and the problem went away. The fact that you are feeding all those different kinds of ferts also leads to this conclusion.

Compare this picture: http://www.marijuana-seeds.net/Thanks/nute_burn01.jpg

With your first post of pictures. They look the exact same, and look the exact same as the nute burn I experienced with mine. The other two sets look different from nute burn but I would assume it is burn or lockout of some kind due to over feeding.

You obviously have nute burn on the first set of pics and/or lockout in the rest, and you need to flush with water only for a while until things straighten back out. The third group of pictures you can tell they are being fed too hard if you look at how the tips of the leaves are starting to curl under and the edges are getting crispy. These are the first signs of over feeding.

You should also probably know the PPM of the nute solution you are feeding, as I find that most recommended doses of nutrients on the back of the jug are way too high. When I first started I followed the directions on the jug and ended up with like 2,000 PPM (way too high). Might also want to use nutrients that are for soil and not hydro. I am sure they make nutrients for different applications for a reason.

Good luck! :jointsmile:

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i adjust ph to 6.5-6.3 as it goes in..

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Yeah but what comes out is important:jointsmile:

Pop that plant out of that potter and look at your rootball..it bet you rootbound and need a bigger potter.

http://boards.cannabis.com/attachmen...re3-15-011.jpg

It's looking like either nute burn, or additive burn. Do you add any Superthrive, or any micronutes? Do you foliar spray with anything other than ph'd water? Do you know the runoff ph?

Nutrient burn starts showing along leaf margins and tip, filling-in the neckrosis, (brown, dead) from the outside edges, in twords the middle of the leaf.
Leaves will crisp-up and problems will accelerate.

Over-micronute indicators, in my garden, include leaf crisping without the leaf margin indicating problems. A brownish-silver 'greying' of the leaves just prior to and just after 'crisping-up'. (almost a heat-stress look to it)
Using different brands of nutes, they all have different formulations. (also I would look into nutes and micro's already in the Happy Frog) My guess is that, individually, one brand of nutes you are using may contain all you need. Adding another formula, you are likely doubling-up on some of (or all of) the micronutes. I'd re-think your nutrient strategy. (stick with one brand per grow) :thumbsup:

They aren't showing signs of rootbound, but you might want to start thinking about a transplant.
They aren't showing the lockout signs (severe yellowing, with brown blotches, droopy) associated with root rot.

Recommending he add stuff, just to see if it would work, can kill an already stressed plant. Tiz one of the main reasons we have a troubleshooting form. Likely best to wait till all questions have been answered before offering a diagnosis and treatment. (or prior to following a blind diagnosis) :thumbsup:

If you decide to flush well, (I would) let the soil dry before doing so. You might want to transplant at the same time. Would help a little with your toxic soil condition.

I love my Fox Farms line. Have changed a few times over the years, to test the latest 'miracle' products everyone is raving about...but I always return to what works well. :jointsmile:

that's not 'nute burn', folks ... Clue: no burnt leaf tips, that I can see ... I suspect calcium deficiency, you should be using about 10ml per gallon, your teaspoon is a bit light ... also, may be overwatering a bit, let the plant go thru wet/dry cycles ...
check here:
Revised: The Complete Guide To Sick Plants,pH and Pest Troubles - PlanetGanja.com

I agree with the Fox Farms fertilizer regimen, too ... my best plants have been with Fox Farm, soil and hydro ... (apologies if I missed something in the pics, am almost blind in right eye now :() ... good luck :thumbsup:

finally, some trusted names on my radar, thank you rusty...

and everyone else.. i dont think i have root rot, atleast not yet, but i have been watering maybe a bit too consistent and im going to let them almost droop before i continue..

i now have the entire faxfarm line, grow, bloom, tiger, happy frog, dontbugme, i dont know what im missing anymore.

I do agree a few might be root bound. i was planning on transplanting atleast that one large one, but it is soo large i am tempted to flower it but i want to clear up all issue while in veg.. i might just have to clone it to keep it going.

im hoping all will clear up once i am using only foxfarm...

Also, do i follow their recommended dosage? Isnt their line practically formulated to grow mainly cannabis? At least isnt that the largest purchaser of their products?

Do i go with perfectly clean r/o water, or do i add 2 tsp of calmag/gallon when giving them 'just water'

I go with their schedule, with two exceptions.

I go half-strength on the Big Bloom. Indica dom's handle it fine, sat dom's tend to show a little burn. The FF people told me that the Big Bloom and the Tiger Bloom have your micro's, so no need to add more...and that the Big Bloom is the catalyst. (it's a tea of bat guano and worm castings)
Keeping these ingredients in mind, I use an organic peat-based soil with castings and fungi already in it, and have never used Happy Frog. You'll want to adjust the Big Bloom accordingly.

Also, I feed twice a week, instead of once. I cut the rates in half to be less of a 'mega' shock, but they still get the same weekly ammounts overall. Plain, ph'd water inbetween if/when necessary.

The only other additive I use is Soil Syrup. (humic acid) With Fox Farms, you'll get some salt build-up, so monthly flushes are a sucessful part of my regimin. After the last bit of flush, I'll mix-up the humic acid, and add it to the soil then.

If using R/O water, you'll need a source of calcium. (CalMag is fine) Is there something wrong with your tapwater?

Image...what's up with your eye...?

i think i finally figured things out...

thanks to you guys!!(maybe girls,lol)

but there were 3 things that i think we can narrow it down to, each plant had its own issue.. well, that big one, that one of u posted a link of the picture of, that u recommend i transplant into a larger pot, well i did so, and i plucked a few of the dying fan leaves and it has a very gritty mineraly, nutrient flavor, indicating to me high nute content, so nute burn complicated with being rootbound(which if i know anything makes burning a lot easier)

another, in the first set of pics i posted has some root rot, atleast it root werent a pure white and furry, but thing and dull, kinda brown... i replanted it into a bigger pot with dry soil and letting it be for a few days.. then i'll water with just calmag and liquid karma... If any of you disagree with the liquid karma please speak now or forever hold your peace.

so, rootbound, nute burn, root rot. i think thats a great explanation for those dying leaves and spots that keep showing up. Rusty, i think u nailed it.

i'll let you know how things are in a week or 2..

Also what size pot should i use for mothers, and how many clippings can a mum take before its time to toss her a reveg another momma.. they are all in 2 gallon pots.

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Originally Posted by Rusty Trichome

It's looking like either nute burn, or additive burn. Do you add any Superthrive, or any micronutes? Do you foliar spray with anything other than ph'd water? Do you know the runoff ph?

Nutrient burn starts showing along leaf margins and tip, filling-in the neckrosis, (brown, dead) from the outside edges, in twords the middle of the leaf.
Leaves will crisp-up and problems will accelerate.

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I've got a similar problem, rusting/curled leafs (specifically the ends)...

My problems undernute and lockout.. it's interesting how overnute looks similar, I'd definately expect your case to be overnuting like rusty suggests... definately some sort of additive/nute/lockout burn...

Good luck to solving it dude :-)


ahh see you have solved things, well done.. ;] be careful the next time you see it , it could be undernute or lockout hehe; I must be careful not to misdiagnose a problem as it can make poor plants die :(

Here's hoping theres never a first time for us both. Yup it's true never unintentionally killed a cannabis plant!

Peace,
Denial

well im not 100% outta the woods yet.. all i have done so far is a basic repot into fresh soil and put water w/ 6ml calmag, and 5ml of liquid karma. ph was 6.2 when it entered....

Rusty... i spoke to a knowlegable guy at foxfarms, and he said, in soil your always going to have a very low ph in the runoff. the only way to get a precise ph it take about a half cup of the soil and place it into about 2 cups of distilled water, swirl it around for a min then stick ur pen in.

whats your thoughts on that...

Ive taken my plain r/o water and ran it through some fresh soil and the ph was coming out at 3.9-4.2, thats LEMON JUICE!!

so idk, you hear so much contradictary shit among the community its just best to sift through it and listen to experienced...

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Originally Posted by TheXFactor

well im not 100% outta the woods yet.. all i have done so far is a basic repot into fresh soil and put water w/ 6ml calmag, and 5ml of liquid karma. ph was 6.2 when it entered....

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Still, just a tad too low. As soil degrades, ph will go down further, taking it out of the 'acceptable' range.

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Originally Posted by TheXFactor

Rusty... i spoke to a knowlegable guy at foxfarms, and he said, in soil your always going to have a very low ph in the runoff.

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Not necessarily so. I use an organic mix, and I use well water, which comes out of the tap at 8.0 ph. I use ph Down (phosphoric acid) to lower my water ph to 6.8 before watering. My runoff ph is a fairly consistent 6.8. If I run the unadjusted 8.0 ph water through, my runoff comes out at around 7.4. (was done just for testing purposes)
Also depends on if you are taking the readings on a plain watering day, or a feeding day. (nutes have a lower ph)
With any peat-based potting medium, ph will slowly degrade. This is why lime is added. To buffer the mix to around 7.0-ish. This effect wears-off after a couple of months.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TheXFactor

the only way to get a precise ph it take about a half cup of the soil and place it into about 2 cups of distilled water, swirl it around for a min then stick ur pen in.

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I'm ok with approximate readings, as long as they are within the parameters of a 'normal' range.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TheXFactor

Ive taken my plain r/o water and ran it through some fresh soil and the ph was coming out at 3.9-4.2, thats LEMON JUICE!!

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Are you using one of those color-coded test kits to check runoff? That would explain the low readings you're getting. The color coded kits needs a clear liquid to show accurate results. (the runoff is tinted, so will tint the color-coded result)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TheXFactor

Rusty... i spoke to a knowlegable guy at foxfarms, and he said, in soil your always going to have a very low ph in the runoff. the only way to get a precise ph it take about a half cup of the soil and place it into about 2 cups of distilled water, swirl it around for a min then stick ur pen in.

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my soil ph is about 7.0 atm :P the buffer goes after so many weeks man. tell the foxfarm guy to consider that... Also, if you are in a hard water area it's very easy to get a high PH runoff. I'm fixing my shit with phosphoric acid, not perfect but does put the PH in the right place for the uptake of nutrients.. :]

my 5 cents anyway :-)

Peace,
denial

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Originally Posted by denialisback

I'm fixing my shit with phosphoric acid, not perfect but does put the PH in the right place for the uptake of nutrients.. :]

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IDK...I've never come across anything that works at lowering the ph, better than phosphoric acid. Plants love it, and 1 gallon has lasted me over two years. (always add acid to water, not the other way around, BTW)

I agree with the over-feeding.

Feed every 2nd or 3rd watering. Bring yourself down to one or two good nutes and stick with those until you balance things out. (keep it simply silly)

You might consider flushing your plants with PH balanced water with 1 T H2O2 (hydrogen peroxide) (3 gallon pot use about 3 gallons water.

Also, add H2O2 and mole-asses to your non-nute -- every watering.

The H2O2 extra oxygen molecule helps displace the water so your roots can "breathe", and attaches to and helps clean up dead organic matter, etc. As good a home-cure/additive as Mole Asses for micro-nutes and carbs.


good growing.

1 tablespoon of H2O2 per gallon of water, can also kill the bioactivity in your soil. :(

Fight PH issues with 1/2 cup dolomite lime per cu ft of soil when mixing in the first place, work smarter not harder:thumbsup:

How do you mix lime it in a pot, that has the plant in it already?

I started using ro water a year ago, its funny stuff until you get used to it. Although your ph meter will give a reading it will be wrong as ro water is nearly pure and therefore should have no ph (potential of hydrogen)until it is buffered. It will also deteriorate the probe I have been told. My local hydro guy told me to add back 1 litre of waste water to every 10 litres of ro instead of cal mag this will add back the other micro nutrients that can cause defficencies but still filters out the chloride and other nastys in the tap. Apparently thats what the fish guys do in their aquariums with good results and so far it worked for me.

Subzero.