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Trimming for a higher Yield
25 days into my grow, it occured to me that I may increase the yield or growth speed by trimming.
On the main stem, at each node, there are 4 branches, 2 sets of 2. The Bottom branch of each set reaches out to form a set of leaves, and thats it. The top branch forms many sets of new leaves, new branches, and a site from which to eventually bud.
My question, should i cut the bottom branches, so what is left is the fruiting branch, so energy is diverted from the bottom branches to the others?
I think that was intelligible, idk. Im fuggin highhhhh. :jointsmile:
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Trimming for a higher Yield
Not a very good idea. How do you think that plant catches light to make food? The fan leaves, those big leaves on your plant.
Now with lower branches that are turning yellow or something, they will fall off when they are ready. IMO you just wasting your time and hurting your plant.
Think of it as someone cutting off your toes. Your going to focus more on your toe than anything else. The plant with be like "SHIT!, that hurt" and focus on repairing the damage, thus stressing it and slowing down bud production.
?'s
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Trimming for a higher Yield
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Trimming for a higher Yield
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lit Up
Not a very good idea. How do you think that plant catches light to make food? The fan leaves, those big leaves on your plant.
I wouldnt cut off all of them, just the lower ones, that already arnt getting much light because of shadows.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lit Up
Now with lower branches that are turning yellow or something, they will fall off when they are ready. IMO you just wasting your time and hurting your plant.
This is logical, with the exception of wasting time. If the plant diverted energy away from growing the unused branches, it would go to its growth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lit Up
Think of it as someone cutting off your toes. Your going to focus more on your toe than anything else. The plant with be like "SHIT!, that hurt" and focus on repairing the damage, thus stressing it and slowing down bud production.
?'s
I am not so convinced. At this time in its life, it doesnt even have pre-flowers yet, so it would not stunt their growth.
However, this is just playing off of my logic, not prior experience.
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Trimming for a higher Yield
Quote:
My question, should i cut the bottom branches, so what is left is the fruiting branch, so energy is diverted from the bottom branches to the others?
My bad, this lead me to believe that it was budding.
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This is logical, with the exception of wasting time. If the plant diverted energy away from growing the unused branches, it would go to its growth.
If you want to increase your yield look into LST or topping. Recently, I have become a big fan of topping, so the lower branches actually grow faster and become useful.
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Trimming for a higher Yield
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melkorx5
I wouldnt cut off all of them, just the lower ones, that already arnt getting much light because of shadows.
Fans and lower leaves are the plants mobile nutrient/micronutrient/hormone storehouse. (they store the mobile elements for use as needed by the plant) If your nutrient regimen is spot-on, not much to worry about. But if you are a beginner just eeking-out a struggling garden...it is recommended you leave them alone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melkorx5
This is logical, with the exception of wasting time. If the plant diverted energy away from growing the unused branches, it would go to its growth.
You can pay her now, or pay her later. Every leaf you remove...every branch you cull, removes another little piece of the plant's energy storehouse. Plus, she can take up to two weeks to recover, depending on how much you've butchered her, and if her needs are being met during recovery.
You've already topped her, right? So now you want to "bottom" her also...? What next, removing all the interior leaves and shoots, too?
Do a side-by-side, see what results you prefer. Perhaps you like stunted plants.
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Originally Posted by Melkorx5
I am not so convinced. At this time in its life, it doesnt even have pre-flowers yet, so it would not stunt their growth.
<sigh> If all you want to do is argue...then do whatever makes you comfortable. You've been offered links and tips to help you make the right choice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melkorx5
However, this is just playing off of my logic, not prior experience.
We are offering you assistance using both. :jointsmile:
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Trimming for a higher Yield
I agree with Rusty. You may think it makes sense; give it a try on a few plants and I bet you change your mind in a hurry. Like Rusty says EVERY SINGLE time you pull, break, "fix" etc you are redirecting the plant's time and energy to repair to said spot before it will continue growing. Sure you could get a monster plant.....in about 3 years with a root system the size of Rhode Island [providing you keep transplanting and your thin out your roots (which will die off naturally after they are not needed and cause root rot) to keep your nute ratios and ph balance in check.
Wouldn't really help your yield vs the amount of work it would take to keep such a plant happy. And at the rate it will grow; you can leave it to your kids in your will. :D
edit: I now read the plants are in flower. That's even a worse idea. Add a day's more bloom time for every couple leaves you pull. And that REALLY won't help your yield but they're your plants.
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Trimming for a higher Yield
Ah, my apologies, i considered this topic dead after LitUp's last post. Im gonna let em grow naturally, and top em in a couple days.
Thank you all for your input, and excuse me if i seemed argumentative.
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Trimming for a higher Yield
I trim some of the fan leaves that prevent light from getting down to the lower bud sites, but I've never noticed my plant slowing down in growth. The lower bud sites are getting bigger now too as result of trimming those fan leaves I assume.
I'm also a big fan of fimming as it produces more node sites and makes your plant "denser" giving you more bud sites. I'll usually do it to 4 bud sites doing it every other.....
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Trimming for a higher Yield
Melkorx5: If the plants are in flower, do not top 'em. Period.
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Originally Posted by k1ng87
I trim some of the fan leaves that prevent light from getting down to the lower bud sites, but I've never noticed my plant slowing down in growth. The lower bud sites are getting bigger now too as result of trimming those fan leaves I assume.
For every fan leaf you remove, you are removing essential nutrients and minerals that can not be quickly replaced. Are you certain those fans aren't the ones supplying the cola with her minimum daily essentials? Are you stunting the best part of the plant to salvage a couple of secondary buds...?
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Originally Posted by k1ng87
I'm also a big fan of fimming as it produces more node sites and makes your plant "denser" giving you more bud sites. I'll usually do it to 4 bud sites doing it every other.....
You ought to try re-vegging. :jointsmile:
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Trimming for a higher Yield
Back in the day I use to trim off fan leave s like you just did . I thought I got bigger buds too and that made sense to me. I just started again after a 6 year break and I left everything on except for what naturally dies off. Guess what I have bigger and more than ever. Rusty and weedhound are correct as usuall. Thanks guys
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Trimming for a higher Yield
I just let the 'dead ones drop' :D, that's my extent of 'trimming' ... I frequently 'top' my main stem, but I'm not a fan-leaf remover :smokin:
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Trimming for a higher Yield
Nice post I know this post has been long dead but man I've learned a lot from this site, as I keep reading I learn how to make my plants better. Because I've learned from every argument, details attained, pics and skills passed down like old tradition. I'm glad I'm a member of such a cultural diverse site.
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Trimming for a higher Yield
i have seen and know many a grwoer who lolly pops their plants witch is they trim off everything below the canopy. and branch that grows of of the main stem is chopped off they only leave the flower site that are attached to the main stem. and they get great results. i
i on the other hand only trim the very bottom of the plant strems or small branches and let it grow naturally. trimming only weak ond yellow leafs. i i am not after monster yeilds as much as i am after a happy growing plant and seeing and learning from it growing
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Trimming for a higher Yield
im getting yield at for being on the comp so i stopped reading half the post so i apologize if this has been said. If you cut a branch off of any plant the plant wont try to heal that spot. The exact opposite will happen. it cuts nute supply to the branch fibers and causes a concaved wall of dead tissue to protect itself from anything that is trying to get into that wound. As an arborist I use this method on trees all the time. its called crown raising. if you take the bottom nodes off the nodes above will have more nutes thus growing wider and healthier and the new nute distribution will cause the same effect all the way up the plant. I knew this to be true for trees so i tested it out on my best breeding male. I took four clones for future inbreeding and had a perfect opportunity. out of the four i only crown raised three and all three surpassed the fourth. but out of the three it seemed the later one had the best results so i would advise to wait at least a week before throwing the fruiting switch. maybe even two depending on how long your veggin.
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Trimming for a higher Yield
I'm sure there will be debate about this comment but this is how and why I do any trimming. As you can see in the pictures, the leaves are lacking nitro. This is common for many strains to do this while in flowering. I wait until most of the leaf is mostly yellow before trimming it off. I also wait until there are quite a few that need to be trimmed to prevent stress daily by removing leaves as they yellow. I have never had any problems removing these leaves that are very yellow. Never stunted or any other signs of stress. I do not recommend trimming any leaves that are not dead nor dieing. I grew 2 of the same strains side-by-side and trimmed one of them the whole grow because I assumed more light getting and less leaves in the way would be benificial...It was NOT:(very sad....
This is from first trim session, 5 weeks in to flower...28 leaves that range from 11"in to 5"in. Most of the leaves came from the main stalk and were the first leaves to develop in growth. This is also very common in this strain.:smokin:
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Trimming for a higher Yield
I did a side by side comparison recently, just trimmed a few yellowed leaves, and the one I didn't touch (which had some yellowed leaves also) outgrew the one I trimmed.
As usual. Rusty is right! ..Again!:thumbsup:
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Trimming for a higher Yield
Jon420: Nice to see someone stick to their guns, but your plant that's 5 weeks into flowering does not appreciate the 28 new injuries that it is being forced to deal with before resuming 'normal' growth.
Despite your protestations, stress during flowering should be avoided at all costs. Not olny does the plant take a couple of weeks to heal, the stress is a great way to turn her into a raging hermaphrodite.
Her job is to shed the leaves she no longer wants or needs. Your job is to clean the discards out of the pot. Unless Home and Garden is coming out for a photo shoot, "tidying-up" the undergrowth is unnecessary and counter-productive.
If you have mold or disease climbing-up the plant, then I'd say to go for it. Beyond that though...leave the poor ladies alone.
Also, if your lighting is insufficient to extend down far enough to promote healthy growth, you might want to get better lighting instead of plucking the under-performers.
Adjusting your watering might help prevent the yellowing, too.
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Trimming for a higher Yield
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty Trichome
Jon420: Nice to see someone stick to their guns, but your plant that's 5 weeks into flowering does not appreciate the 28 new injuries that it is being forced to deal with before resuming 'normal' growth.
Despite your protestations, stress during flowering should be avoided at all costs. Not olny does the plant take a couple of weeks to heal, the stress is a great way to turn her into a raging hermaphrodite.
Her job is to shed the leaves she no longer wants or needs. Your job is to clean the discards out of the pot. Unless Home and Garden is coming out for a photo shoot, "tidying-up" the undergrowth is unnecessary and counter-productive.
If you have mold or disease climbing-up the plant, then I'd say to go for it. Beyond that though...leave the poor ladies alone.
Also, if your lighting is insufficient to extend down far enough to promote healthy growth, you might want to get better lighting instead of plucking the under-performers.
Adjusting your watering might help prevent the yellowing, too.
Thanks a lot for the comment, always appreciate any and all input. The only leaves that I dare trim are leaves that are basically hanging on by a thread. I never tamper with new growth or leaves that are still providing as they should. I also never go in and clear out leaves or branches just to make more light available. I have yet to have plant be stressed enough by this method of trimming to turn hermie on me, or have growth stunted. Maybe I have good luck but until it stops working for me, I will continue to do as I do. And one other thing. It is only particular strains that I do this too and this just so happens to be one of them. Side by side with another of the same strain actually showed slower growth during flowering when the dead leaves were not trimmed off once or twice. Thanks again:thumbsup:
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Trimming for a higher Yield
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty Trichome
Also, if your lighting is insufficient to extend down far enough to promote healthy growth, you might want to get better lighting instead of plucking the under-performers.
Adjusting your watering might help prevent the yellowing, too.
Forgot to mention that my lighting seems to only be an issue with the very dense-leaved plants. Other than that, bud development is pretty even for the growth all throughout. What kind of adjustment would you recommend on the water, less or more??? Just curious...Thanks:thumbsup::smokin:
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Trimming for a higher Yield
Closed-minded or not, stress in the flower room is a bad idea. I've been doing this for a couple of years, and rarely do I put my reputation on the line by giving false information. I'm a firm believer in using sound horticultural technique over "it worked for me before" statements.
I see many more people overwatering, than I see underwatering. Habitual overwatering will cause roots to cease all uptake. (nutrients and moisture) The leaves start to yellow, (like a ph issue without the claw) then they get the brownish spots, then they die. Then there's the stunting as the photosynthesis comes to a screeching halt. That's when the roots start smelling like low-tide in Newport Beach as they rot away.
Most in here would rather learn proper technique, but it's your game. Play it as you see fit. :jointsmile:
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Trimming for a higher Yield
Trimming can not give a higher yield, that is just an illusion.
If the leaves yellowing in early flowering that more looks like you couldn't fully take care of that strain, not the strain itself.
Half of the leaves i saw in the previous picture had still green colors on them. Even they are yellow, if the plant is not letting them go means still using them.
Leaves don't use plants energie, leaves give energy.
This is like growing a tomato and eating the fruits when they're ready. First you feed the tomato plant to produce the tomato. When ready, tomato feeds you. Even if tomato gets bad in time you can still eat if you're starving, and it won't kill you. Tomato can be brown outside but if you open it up you can still find something to eat in there. Only thing you see is from outside of the leaf. You can't know whats in there. Plant knows. :weedpoke:
All my thoughts. Not scientific. Emotional.
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Trimming for a higher Yield
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty Trichome
Closed-minded or not, stress in the flower room is a bad idea. I've been doing this for a couple of years, and rarely do I put my reputation on the line by giving false information. I'm a firm believer in using sound horticultural technique over "it worked for me before" statements.
I see many more people overwatering, than I see underwatering. Habitual overwatering will cause roots to cease all uptake. (nutrients and moisture) The leaves start to yellow, (like a ph issue without the claw) then they get the brownish spots, then they die. Then there's the stunting as the photosynthesis comes to a screeching halt. That's when the roots start smelling like low-tide in Newport Beach as they rot away.
Most in here would rather learn proper technique, but it's your game. Play it as you see fit. :jointsmile:
I'm not at all trying to offer false information, nor am I concerned about a reputation. I am simply stating what works for me and what I have seen personally. Some people just like to know what others are doing. Thanks for the comments though, I don't get offended by others information.:thumbsup:
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Trimming for a higher Yield
Under lights I trim all the little crappy braches that aren worth a dam only in the first week of bloom . I shape mine to where i have four main braches ,each same height and main colas. Power goes straight to those upper braches and i end up with nothing but big ballons on top! I gues they call it lolly poping , i call it not waisting my time on the shit underneath that isnt worth a dam. My nugs do get bigger this way ,but as far a fan leaves i always leave em on ....
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Trimming for a higher Yield
Quote:
Originally Posted by biggmac4
...i call it not waisting my time on the shit underneath that isnt worth a dam...
The plant calls it stealing portions of it's nutrient storehouse, and will likley call it an injury that will need more energy to heal. It will also call this stressful, depending on how much you trim, and when. Stress causes a myriad of issues including but not limited to, stunting.
I've heard the argument over and over. "trimming the undergrowth diverts the nutrients and energy to the other parts of the plant..." Ok...but you just cut-off the storehouse that would provide that energy and removed those (already processed) nutrients necessary to heal and resume 'normal' growth. So please provide a biological foundation or principle concerning annuals on how is this helpful...?
I do a lot of topping and re-vegging, and can gurantee I add extra time for the ladies to heal. If you push the ladies too hard, they push back.
Any "Screen of Green" gardeners out there wish to add anything...?
(a goal-specific technique often cited in these debates)
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Trimming for a higher Yield
Those lower popcorn size bud sites are an excellent place to dab pollen and make seeds; while keeping the rest sensi...IMO
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Trimming for a higher Yield
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutch Pimp
Those lower popcorn size bud sites are an excellent place to dab pollen and make seeds; while keeping the rest sensi...IMO
That's a good point.
Some can go against like "Plant will focus on seed production and that can lower the yield" :p
