Forgive me?

Recently I have found myself attempting to engage people in a spiritual discussion. When it didn't go the way I wanted, I became defensive, egotistical and that is not my style and I think being defensive is useless if not harmful.

Even as much as I talk about the dangers of egotism, when someone challenges me, my ego comes blaring out. So, please forgive me. I just so much want people to put down hate, forgive and realize Heaven isn't so far away, its within our grasp and forgiveness is the key to happiness. That is the entirety of what would tell anyone who is scared, angry, unhappy. Forgiveness is the key. Justice never comes to those who want vengeance, forgiveness releases us with having to "justify" it.

I'm not talking about passivity. One must be assertive sometimes but hate and vengeance is not being assertive, these are rooted in fear really.

Thanks for listening, MH.

I was not upset by any of it, but I really think that the belief system you've taken up is doing you no good. People NEED to have an ego, that includes everybody.

Many of the worst movements in history said that the ego is bad - they did this as a way to control people. They're still doing it.

I've had lot's of bad things happen to me on account of people and institutions, but I don't spend time hating the guilty parties. Likewise, I don't "forgive" them, either. I just try to keep it out of my mind and chalk it up to bad luck, bad timing, human nature, lousy parenting, mental problems, etc.

Movements like ACIM, that appear to be providing an all-encompassing live-change for it's adherents, all operate similarly to each other. I've been on this planet long enough to see the symptoms and methodology of other groups, that's why I knew something was wrong here before ACIM (which I'd never heard of before) was even brought up.

I posted that YouTube ACIM video, of the woman talking about it, as an example of a victim of mind-control.

It's bad news, in more ways than I can express. People walking around thinking that they've been endowed with "special" knowledge, from wherever, is always a sign tht something is very wrong with them.

When you find yourself around people being vindictive and hateful to the point it is giving you a financial and mental anchor: Yet, hang onto the belief of forgiveness and cannot hate--they just keep it up, regardless of how assertive you may be! It beats you down to the point, you start reminding yourself that person must prescribe to the belief that "God is all Forgiving" and the ten commandments mean nothing (at the least, as good set of morals to live by and do well by yoursefl and others). So, I just forgive and go on. But, some just keep pounding and pounding at you.

A lifetime of forgiveness is now under review!

I believe do unto others as they do onto you. Unless, it is against the 10 commandments. With the exception of people I do not trust and they lie 24/7; I figure at some point, I do not say much to them and what I do is a lie. I really feel like, when they can't tell you the truth, why set an example, after 10 years and they don't catch on, let them see what it feels like! Childish, now that I read it. Guess, I'd better stop! PR :jointsmile:

Forgiven.:hippy::hippy::hippy::hippy::hippy::hippy :

What happens if we are reincarnated? If you spread hate and trash forgivness then you are born again into a hateful world that was partly your own making and you may not like it.

Just a random thought.

Thanks to all. I mean that. Those were thoughtful replies and it does my heart good. MH

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Originally Posted by Breukelen advocaat

I was not upset by any of it, but I really think that the belief system you've taken up is doing you no good. People NEED to have an ego, that includes everybody.

Many of the worst movements in history said that the ego is bad - they did this as a way to control people. They're still doing it.

I've had lot's of bad things happen to me on account of people and institutions, but I don't spend time hating the guilty parties. Likewise, I don't "forgive" them, either. I just try to keep it out of my mind and chalk it up to bad luck, bad timing, human nature, lousy parenting, mental problems, etc.
Movements like ACIM, that appear to be providing an all-encompassing live-change for it's adherents, all operate similarly to each other. I've been on this planet long enough to see the symptoms and methodology of other groups, that's why I knew something was wrong here before ACIM (which I'd never heard of before) was even brought up.
I posted that YouTube ACIM video, of the woman talking about it, as an example of a victim of mind-control.
It's bad news, in more ways than I can express. People walking around thinking that they've been endowed with "special" knowledge, from wherever, is always a sign tht something is very wrong with them.

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I knew why you posted the video and I thank you anyway. I knew you hadn't magically changed your mind about it. You see Ellie as a total brainwashed spacecadet and you felt that would be obvious to others. Perhaps it is. It doesn't matter. I am not trying to convert anyone to ACIM. Its not for everyone. My beef with you was just that you don't know the ins and outs of the book and IMHO you were judging it hastily. Your vigilance against "brainwashing" is honorable, if a bit hasty.

My brother told me about the book about 2 years ago and I was worried he was getting involved in a cult. I did my homework about all involved before I read it. Its not that the idea it could be brainwashing didn't cross my mind...I just know that I can't be brainwashed. To be brainwashed, you would have to do something against your "right mind." I read the first page, liked what I read and read the next...By my own volition. Thats all. Peace, MH.

O.K. MH and Ba, we all missed it! If u are talking about cults vs. forgiveness for the brainwashing of it, then that is like a zombie moving because someone put the trans in 'D'. It is thoughtless, unremarkable and makes you concerned about the person!

In my experience: Some people can only function in a cult type of atmosphere! Unfortunately, we are all free spirited and free thinking individuals here and I doubt anyone would condone following someone like an ant!

I have a brother that is one of those people, also! I get it. He was definitely in a cult and finally switched to Budhism. I went to temple, read the books, etc. I am not Budhist and do not subscribe to the belief. I use to think it was harmless and helped my bro. AS he did improve. So, I thought. I let him live with me and supported (college-etc) him for a few years when we were pretty young. I encouraged him to take classes in the field with which he had worked and had a lot of skill in. No, he wanted totally different-so he did nothing. He would not get up in the AM. My secretary called him one A.M. for one hour and he never did pick up the phone to wake up and go to college!

Now, the little shit gets up earlier and chants for over an hour every A.M.! He believes all your problems are yours, even if he runs you over with his car and almost kills you. He had nothing to do with it, his car did it! If he can stir a pot and make it explode, he will do it. So long as no one clearly sees that is what he is doing!

Fortunately, I did see it. He is no different than he was 30 years ago. He is a silent trouble maker and cares not what the consequences are from the wake of his behavior! If he thinks telling someone that you droppen in to visit him and did not have time to go next door to visit another, he will tell that person and piss them off, big time! He will leave out the fact that it was when you were off on vacation and not even home!

That is how a mindless type of person thinks and I've given a mild short version! Once you get them out of the cult or that type of thinking-they will migrate to another of similar variety. Just as Ba states!

Those people have ego's bigger than this entire community spun together. That is why you have so many hipocrates in a church. No one is perfect and we need to forgive. AS I have forgiven my bro. The last time he stopped talking to me, because he contends I 'slammed his vehicle verbally' in some way, I will never know, I made his cease talking permanent. He gets in the middle of everything behind your back and makes mudd! Now, he wallers in it! His attempts to phone, etc. go unanswered. Why, he is never going to change. He has a little girl he has nothing to do with, because of the Mother. The mother is a good person, just not Buddhist! She will and has offered to make arrangements for visitation, etc. without ever seeing him. No, he could care less he abandoned that girl at age of 2: She is now 12! People like that will be back, like bhouncey said! THAT IS FRIGHTENING!

The only consolation is to hope the world is full of all of them and not you! So, you only pass this world but once! Live life well and full. Don't step on toes and you can forgive and decide to delete that person from your life. You may need to for mental health. You can't save everyone and people that are cult type driven, are some of them.

As with Ba, I think, mental illness or something. Doesn't matter what reason, you need to avoid and stay away from that person. I have learned though a very hard and expensive way--it is best. However, when I did not forgive, it hung over me like a black cloud. Now, I don't even think of it.

Forgiveness, is a process. You can get so good at it you forget why and what and slip up and let that person do you 'in' one more time! Then you are challenged and it is all or none! Being aware of what you are doing is about the only difference. Having a filter on your own behavior to prevent you from doing a regretful thing-you cannot forgive yourself for is the goal!

I know when I apologize on line, others think it is thoughtless. It is sincere! I'd hate to bump off someones Starbucks latte and walk off. Leaving the person there broke and no more $ to buy anymore! That is cult type of ego driven bull that will overtake the world and already has our economy!

I used my bro and his belief as an example. I do not subscribe to his belief, but I don't think everyone is like him. So, when I see that irritable glaze in one's eye's of; 'hell with you, I know it all and I'm gonna do it, regardless of the consequence's to anyone' I try to get away and stay away forever!

If I could spot it as easily as Ba, it would give me a 'one up' so to speak! I would not even say hi! That is how bad these 'followers' are! Of course, every minister needs them. In fact, I know a few ministers--they are wealthy. If I had to change careers, I'd suggest that field! If you are a good speaker, there is more $ legally in it! But, pay your taxes, they get audited freq.! PR :twocents::twocents: & do remember, these people that are 'cult like' do act out their fantasy's--one way or another. So, be alert! Fortunately 4 me, my bro and people like him are a thousands of miles away!!!

I don't make much of an effort to get too close to people, until I know them pretty well.

I do believe we all need to have a belief system based on honesty and good will to mankind. No matter where we are. I happen to believe in God and Christian values. Any good and decent religion pretty much has the same values. I just do not subscribe to abandoning people in a time of need and say, "She has cancer and is dealing with her own demons!" That is not a very good way to treat anyone! Can I forgive someone for treating their best friend like that, sure--will I ever be in the position I will need that person-No! Yes, I have been treated in that way and it actually takes work to get pissed about it. I just move on. If they keep on and poke at me, I do whatever I need to, that I can live with and speak about openly. I would not do anything illegal, even if some of these people need to be on a planet of their own. One day, they may all inherit Mars! :D pr

That type of thinking, like my bro's: He chanted that my mother would outlive her children. She has 2 of them and was at his home for a few weeks when she realized she was the world's worst parent. While she cried he was on the phone to me asking me to relieve his guilt. He actually believed his chanting caused her emotional pain. Fool--she is just like him and was playing him! They died because of how they lived, just as we all will. She was sad, because she is one of those egotistical know it alls with no education! pr

Thanks Painretreat, good post!

The way I see it is this. No matter if you believe in ACIM, Buddhism, a bushman in the depths of the jungle or an atheist, everyone has there own path to Truth (whatever you call it). It is our belief in the validity of our own perceptions of who we are as opposed to who other's are that only serve this idea that we are fundamentally different and separate from each other.

You don't have to talk to, interact with or support someone to forgive them. Forgiveness should be internal and complete, otherwise we hold the position that some people deserve forgiveness while others don't. This implies degrees of error and such. But IMHO, if (as I am trying to do) one accepts that we all are One, derived from the same Source (whatever you call it), a person will not feel complete, whole and happy until he realizes that not one part of the Whole can be segregated. This is why forgiveness is divine logic. It implies that if I judge somebody else as (i.e. a pimp, a whore, a dumbass or a devil) we are basically saying to ourselves that we too can be judged by someone else. LET Go of judgement and it frees your mind from the entanglement(quantum entanglement) that preserves the World of the Ego. We may sometimes think we need our egos to protect us but IMHO, the ego is just the collective false perceptions of ourselves that perpetuate Mental Illnesses.

A mentally ill person can only be called that in the context of the whole of his environment. One persons insanity is another persons sanity. Forgiveness frees us from all that bullshit. It just honestly states that "I don't know all the answers, I don't have to know, but I can have compassion for my Brother and I choose to do so. When I am able to forgive, I feel blessed and happy, free from fear. It has nothing to do with "justice" because that is conceptual and requires the belief, "yes I do know everything about right and wrong and I am a good judge of it." Dogmatic leaders of war thrive on these judgements. Lets put it to rest, huh. I just want to forgive, not forget necessarily, but forgive and Heaven on earth can manifest.

Hey, thanks for your input. Peace, MH.

Hey all, I am new to this forum, but here is my little input into the conversation:
If everyone could look at every person they encounter as part of themselves, can you imagine what that world would look like? (I feel like breaking into a John Lennon song, now). "Love thy neighbor as thyself" could mean to really love that other person because they are part of the universal whole (whatever you want to call it... Universe, Brahman, Consciousness, Energy, God) just the same as you. In that world, there would no dualism; no right/wrong, good/evil there would only be peace. But also remember, that the peaceful world exists inside you. The heaven or the hell that you live in is created by your state of mind, and you can access it at any time. When you view the world this way, peace and forgiveness overflow. You no longer are waiting to receive joy, you radiate joy. You love every being, forgiveness is no longer discriminatory (even over the most difficult things in life), and you are completely at peace even sitting in rush hour traffic.
Yes, it is difficult to keep this state of mind, somedays I feel like I stronger than others. But once I started viewing my world this way. All my problems which use to shackle me to my depression suddenly were released, and it was liberating.

Well, that's my little input. Thanks for listening.

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Originally Posted by ericatuc

Hey all, I am new to this forum, but here is my little input into the conversation:
If everyone could look at every person they encounter as part of themselves, can you imagine what that world would look like? (I feel like breaking into a John Lennon song, now). "Love thy neighbor as thyself" could mean to really love that other person because they are part of the universal whole (whatever you want to call it... Universe, Brahman, Consciousness, Energy, God) just the same as you. In that world, there would no dualism; no right/wrong, good/evil there would only be peace. But also remember, that the peaceful world exists inside you. The heaven or the hell that you live in is created by your state of mind, and you can access it at any time. When you view the world this way, peace and forgiveness overflow. You no longer are waiting to receive joy, you radiate joy. You love every being, forgiveness is no longer discriminatory (even over the most difficult things in life), and you are completely at peace even sitting in rush hour traffic.
Yes, it is difficult to keep this state of mind, somedays I feel like I stronger than others. But once I started viewing my world this way. All my problems which use to shackle me to my depression suddenly were released, and it was liberating.

Well, that's my little input. Thanks for listening.

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I feel the same way. I still have a lot of rage in me that I need to forgive and stop projecting it onto others and blaming others for my inner pain. I need to work on forgiving my self for every false belief I hold about myself. When I can do that, I think it will get easier to forgive others. But honestly, it is easy most of the time. Thanks, MH

Mr. Happy, your honesty in your starting post is admirable. The problem I have is due to the knowledge that you are almost certainly wrong in your belief. It's clear to me that your intentions are good. You're making claims that you simply cannot back up with evidence. Your claims are loaded with metaphysical baggage. Objective observation of the world entails a position of agnosticism towards the supernatural. God is possible, but so far there's simply no sign that he's there if you care at all about what the smartest people in the world have to say. Intelligence goes up, belief goes down. This is documented. 90%~ of Nobel prize winners do not believe in any gods.

The moment you realize that a child is being raped either as you're reading this post or within moments of completing it, you should have a strong argument against a loving God existing. I make the claim that not even the rape of a single child, and the fear involved in such an experience cannot ever be justified. A being that allows something like this to happen is evil, period. More than likely, this being doesn't exist, because we have quite a lot of goodness to look at on the planet earth. We have love, acts of kindness, acts of self sacrifice. Think about it.. good deeds are bigger than any culture or religion. Christianity is just as likely to be true as Islam is. Both are highly, highly unlikely. Those are the facts, as disappointing as it may be to some. I hope people have the courage to criticize themselves.

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Originally Posted by ArgoSG

Mr. Happy, your honesty in your starting post is admirable. The problem I have is due to the knowledge that you are almost certainly wrong in your belief. It's clear to me that your intentions are good. You're making claims that you simply cannot back up with evidence. Your claims are loaded with metaphysical baggage. Objective observation of the world entails a position of agnosticism towards the supernatural. God is possible, but so far there's simply no sign that he's there if you care at all about what the smartest people in the world have to say. Intelligence goes up, belief goes down. This is documented. 90%~ of Nobel prize winners do not believe in any gods.

The moment you realize that a child is being raped either as you're reading this post or within moments of completing it, you should have a strong argument against a loving God existing. I make the claim that not even the rape of a single child, and the fear involved in such an experience cannot ever be justified. A being that allows something like this to happen is evil, period. More than likely, this being doesn't exist, because we have quite a lot of goodness to look at on the planet earth. We have love, acts of kindness, acts of self sacrifice. Think about it.. good deeds are bigger than any culture or religion. Christianity is just as likely to be true as Islam is. Both are highly, highly unlikely. Those are the facts, as disappointing as it may be to some. I hope people have the courage to criticize themselves.

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Thanks ArgoSG, well...I respect what your saying and I have taken the same position some years ago. Not to be a smartass or anything but I am very happy that I believe you are mistaken. What changed my mind was "A Course in Miracles," "Kabalah" along with my studies of other said religions. What changed was my conceptual understanding of what this world actually is and represents and most of all who it was who created the evil in this world.

Was it the Devil who created this world? I don't believe in a devil. The devil is a fictional character who conveniently allows us to project our sense of guilt onto someone outside of ourselves. I recognize that all people have an internal program called the ego which seeks salvation through materialism. The ego is what created the body and the body is its alter to its god called "death." The ego is what strives to become a god itself and deny Truth exists.

Organized religions have invariably misrepresented the love of God because we don't understand unconditional love. I know there is a God not through science although there are many more brilliant people who believe in a God than you might think. Thanks for your thoughts, respectfully yours MH.