Personally, whenever I think about it, it disgusts me. Some rifle my taxes bought probably is responsible for some Afghani civilian's brains splattered across the street as we speak. Either that or some new anti-drug propaganda is being paid for.
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Personally, whenever I think about it, it disgusts me. Some rifle my taxes bought probably is responsible for some Afghani civilian's brains splattered across the street as we speak. Either that or some new anti-drug propaganda is being paid for.
Yeah it sucks, whats worse is that the tax the govnt steals from you.
Look up the irs, most people who worked there quit, and reported what they saw on you tube: no law stating we have to pay.
What happend to the good old days of taring and feathering the tax collector, and fighting for are freedom. Why is this country so paccified???
Yep, couldn't agree more. I really hope we'll be out soon. Though of course its a bigger clusterfuck now than it was when we all arrived. I'm waiting to see what will happen come 2011, when Canada is supposed to end its mission. With all the new pressure being exerted there by the US, and Harper still in government, we'll probably end up along for the ride.
One can only hope that somewhere there will be some benefit from this.
I hate how our media calls it a "mission" so the Canadian people won't think of us as being at war and can sit comfortably on their asses.Quote:
Originally Posted by FreshNugz
The only difference between our pulling out in 2011 and our pulling out tomorrow will be that in 2 years' time another few dozen of our young men, and however many Afghani civilians, will be dead. And, of course, we'll be billions of dollars poorer. All to impose the Western agenda on the world's dissident nations. I'm ashamed to belong to the Western world a lot of the time.
If Afghanistan's Taliban leaders had handed over bin Laden and his cohorts after 9/11, they probably would not have been invaded in the first place. They (Taliban) were totally uncooperative. Many aspects of this war were handled all wrong by us, but something needed to be done. Instead of attacking Kabul, and other cities, we should have pattern-bombed, or nuked, the mountainous regions where Al-Quada operatives and leaders were holed up.
<sigh> such narrow minded thoughts... Your tax dollars go to a whole lot more than just weapons for the military. Personally, I take comfort in knowing that my tax dollars are going to pay the salaries of our military, and supporting their families. These are the folks that defend your right to freedom of speech.Quote:
Originally Posted by overgrowthegovt
Before you get your panties in a wad, I am 53 years old, retired military, a business owner(paying both personal and business taxes), and have a whole lot of lifes experiences behind me. Come talk to me in about 10 years after your out of school.
I couldn't agree more ! :thumbsup: ... next time you 'weeping pacifists' are in danger, call a hippie ! ... our military protects your rights to be ignorant :smokin:Quote:
Originally Posted by Mississippi Steve
We all live to pay taxes to death!
My concern is, here in (at least Calif.) our taxes are going up and up! The day will come when a social security check will not pay your property taxes.
More horrified that people can't afford to pay their taxes! PR ;)
Like, get an IRA or 401k, after most is lost in the stock market, when you do decide to pull it out for use, the taxes will be higher then than they were when you earned the money, if you have any left! ever think of that?
That is why there is a Roth, you pay the tax up front instead of when you pull it out.Quote:
Originally Posted by painretreat
Wait till the stimulus hits the fan, taxes will have to AT LEAST double. Federal Gov't debt will be 13% of the total output of the whole USA, worst in history.
Thank you Barack Mugabe.
It is not "narrow-minded" to be aware of the fact that the Western world wages war for its own self-serving agendas and feeds the public shameless propaganda about "defending our freedom" and so forth. Defending the oppressive global status quo, more like.
All the U.S. or Canadian military personnel do is waste billions of dollars on killing people halfway across the world so Haliburton can get a nice juicy contract over there, so it irritates me to no end that their undeserved salaries will be coming out of our pockets (I "support the troops" by advocating that they be brought back home in one piece, before it's too late).
As for 9/11, it was of course a horrendous spectacle, but it has been argued by some (notably Ward Churchill, who was basically tarred and feathered after that) as the natural and inevitable response to decades of raping the Middle East. The deaths in the two towers are nothing compared to the unspeakably evil carnage wrought over there. I mean, seriously, the U.S. initiates countless explosions and incidents of civilian death over there, and then acts shocked and appalledwhen it gets handed back to them.
Mississippi Steve, I acknowledge you as my senior but ask that my views (based upon reading and worldly knowledge) not be automatically dismissed simply on account of my youth. I'm vastly more intelligent than any of my grandparents, so age is really only the most rudimentary guideline.
Nah, I'm immune to tax funded death machines....
After growing up watching the VietNam war on TV every night, this all seems pretty tame to me.....
Here's another quote by Ward Churchill, regarding the victims of the attacks of 9/11: ??Well, really, let's get a grip here shall we? True enough, they were civilians of sort. But innocent? Give me a break.?Quote:
Originally Posted by overgrowthegovt
Tarrded and feathered? There's neighboroods in NYC where he'd get thrown off a roof!
a Canadian should know better than most, the value of the United States' military ... after all, you're not speaking Russian, yet ... :jointsmile:
I watched it all on the tube also and enlisted in the Coast Guard so I wouldn't have to go to Nam.. When I got my draft notice, I was on USCGC Glacier in th Bearing Sea. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by LolaGal
I've read the essay, and I know the context of the quote you're refering to...he was saying that the trade centre workers were, through their labour, assisting and perpetuating the world's inequalies. Even though their intents weren't malicious, being just your typical thoughtless people doing what pays the bills, they were complicit cogs in the despotic machine. "Little Eichmanns", he called them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Breukelen advocaat
In the post-9/11 hysteria everyone blacklisted Churchill because no one would acknowledge that their nation's foreign policy was responsible for the tragedy.
Actually there is a law in the constitution that says the government has a right to collect taxes. It's the 16th amendment which goes something like this: "The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, WITHOUT apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any CENSUS OR ENUMERATION."Quote:
Originally Posted by MaryJaneMonkey
Of course it doesn't say the income tax it does say it can tax the states without a general consensus. So by technicality the income tax is constitutional, however, I'll be the first to say it shouldn't be there in the first place. Anyway, I would imagine some of our taxes going towards the military but realistically only a small percentage of our taxes goes to anything. It mostly goes to paying off the national debt, but because we need money to continue these governmental programs as well as our huge foreign affairs and the fact that we have to pay off the national debt + interest there is no way the collection of 300 million peoples taxes would pay for much. This is why we borrow and create money.
What a lot of people seem to forget is that the leaders said they would have no problem handing over Laden, as long as the US came up with evidence that Laden was responsible for the 9/11 attacks. The US never had any evidence that he was behind it, and they knew it. There is still no mention of Ladens wanted status on the FBI list for 9/11.Quote:
Originally Posted by Breukelen advocaat
Yeah, I love how the solution is "nuke".....honestly people!!!!!!
That's sickening. Oh it's not working, so we should nuke it!
How the hell would you feel if someone sprung a nuclear weapon on you? The inability of people to see this from a perspective other than their own immediate one is disgusting.
Bin Laden was wanted by the FBI, and other government agencies, for other crimes against the United States before 9/11 even occurred.Quote:
Originally Posted by epxroot
If they prefer to maintain bin Laden's innocence and keep their spiritual and political leader safe, then that is the height of stupidity, not to mention arrogance.
The Taliban maimed, tortured and killed countless people in the name of Islam, for years, in Afghanistan, but they can't kill three thousand people in the United States for a religion and expect to get away with it. This movement is insane and most, if not all, of them need to die, as does al Quada.
The ultimate goal of these homocidal maniacs is to cause the destruction of the entire world, so that allah can start over. They don't care about the Gaza strip politics - they'd be trying to reach their goals even if Israel disappeared. They must be stopped before they can use nuclear and biological weapons - which they may already have.
Man I hate doing this but.....
The Taliban and Al Queda may be working together but their agendas are different from each other. Al Queda wants to take over the World and the Taliban want to take over Afghanistan and let everyone else fuck off. Of course you have various other tribes with their own agendas including many of the Pastun tribes. But It's difficult to name these guys terrorists because they're more or less concerned about their own villages more so than the movement. These terrorist organizations provide them resources and power to defend themselves which is what they want...not an islamic state. Oh and it's also kind of hard to lump Hamas agenda with the Taliban or Al Quedas agendas because really all Hamas wants to do is reclaim Palestine....not destroy the World.
In fact, none of these terrorist organizations want to destroy the World because if they did that then they wouldn't have anyone to rule over. When it really comes down to it, all nations want power and that includes us. The whole international game since the beginning of time has been taking over the World and Al Queda is the last one on the list to be capable of such a thing. My money's on either China, Russia, or the U.S and E.U, not with a bunch of unpopular organizations that has to use force to gain participants.
But don't let this statement fool you. I'm not a sympathizer. I believe these organizations need to be squashed, however, it is important to consider the differences in these organizations if a nation is to defeat it. For one thing the U.S CANNOT continue doing what they are doing. That is irresponsible sloppy Israeli fighting. Powerful yet ineffective.
However many people the Taliban maimed, tortured and killed in the name of Islam, far more have been maimed, tortured and killed in the name of the Western economic and social global agenda. The goal of the homicidal maniacs in the Pentagon is to cause the structuring of the entire world along lines of pro-corporate laissez faire capitalism that favours big business interests and the American value system, which someone somehow got into their head is morally superior to all other ways of life--by whatever brutal and disgusting force deemed necessary. Oh, and there is no "may" about whether or not these maniacs have nuclear weapons; they have a vast arsenal which could potentially cause great suffering to the Islamic peoples, and probably will if another Christian nut ever gets into the White House.Quote:
Originally Posted by Breukelen advocaat
So, I take it that you'd prefer the Taliban and al Quaeda to be in charge of our government, and our nuclear weapons. Hope that you're a devout Muslim, because you'll be dead if you aren't.Quote:
Originally Posted by overgrowthegovt
Confronting Islam: 'America as the Last Man Standing'
by Geert Wilders
11 Feb, 2009
This one is somewhat old, but some messages are never. One may not necessarily agree with his every point, but its central message??i.e., confronting the uncontrolled invasion of the West by Islam with a sense of urgency??is most important to take home. Let us not forget that the Muslim population in the UK is growing 10 times faster than the rest of the population. There is not a lot of time at hand to play hide-and-seek or trials and errors. Posting of this message now is also an opportunity to express solidarity with Wilders, who is today banned from entering Britain. When you put your self-proclaimed destroyers on dole, while deny entry to those, who call upon you for saving what you stand for, then your suicide is inevitable. Wilders' speech in New York on September 25, 2008, sponsored by the Hudson Institute.
Dear friends,
Thank you very much for inviting me.
I come to America with a mission. All is not well in the old world. There is a tremendous danger looming, and it is very difficult to be optimistic. We might be in the final stages of the Islamization of Europe. This not only is a clear and present danger to the future of Europe itself, it is a threat to America and the sheer survival of the West. The United States as the last bastion of Western civilization, facing an Islamic Europe.
First I will describe the situation on the ground in Europe. Then, I will say a few things about Islam. To close I will tell you about a meeting in Jerusalem.
The Europe you know is changing. You have probably seen the landmarks. But in all of these cities, sometimes a few blocks away from your tourist destination, there is another world. It is the world of the parallel society created by Muslim mass-migration. All throughout Europe a new reality is rising: entire Muslim neighborhoods where very few indigenous people reside or are even seen. And if they are, they might regret it. This goes for the police as well. It's the world of head scarves, where women walk around in figureless tents, with baby strollers and a group of children. Their husbands, or slaveholders if you prefer, walk three steps ahead. With mosques on many street corners. The shops have signs you and I cannot read. You will be hard-pressed to find any economic activity. These are Muslim ghettos controlled by religious fanatics. These are Muslim neighborhoods, and they are mushrooming in every city across Europe . These are the building-blocks for territorial control of increasingly larger portions of Europe , street by street, neighborhood by neighborhood, city by city.
There are now thousands of mosques throughout Europe. With larger congregations than there are in churches. And in every European city there are plans to build super-mosques that will dwarf every church in the region. Clearly, the signal is: we rule.
Many European cities are already one-quarter Muslim: just take Amsterdam, Marseille and Malmo in Sweden.
In many cities the majority of the under-18 population is Muslim. Paris is now surrounded by a ring of Muslim neighborhoods. Mohammed is the most popular name among boys in many cities. In some elementary schools in Amsterdam the farm can no longer be mentioned, because that would also mean mentioning the pig, and that would be an insult to Muslims. Many state schools in Belgium and Denmark only serve halal food to all pupils. In once-tolerant Amsterdam gays are beaten up almost exclusively by Muslims. Non-Muslim women routinely hear 'whore, whore'. Satellite dishes are not pointed to local TV stations, but to stations in the country of origin. In France school teachers are advised to avoid authors deemed offensive to Muslims, including Voltaire and Diderot; the same is increasingly true of Darwin . The history of the Holocaust can no longer be taught because of Muslim sensitivity. In England sharia courts are now officially part of the British legal system.. Many neighborhoods in France are no-go areas for women without head scarves. Last week a man almost died after being beaten up by Muslims in Brussels, because he was drinking during the Ramadan.
Jews are fleeing France in record numbers, on the run for the worst wave of anti-Semitism since World War II.
French is now commonly spoken on the streets of Tel Aviv and Netanya, Israel. I could go on forever with stories like this. Stories about Islamization.
A total of fifty-four million Muslims now live in Europe . San Diego University recently calculated that a staggering 25 percent of the population in Europe will be Muslim just 12 years from now. Bernhard Lewis has predicted a Muslim majority by the end of this century.
Now these are just numbers. And the numbers would not be threatening if the Muslim-immigrants had a strong desire to assimilate. But there are few signs of that. The Pew Research Center reported that half of French Muslims see their loyalty to Islam as greater than their loyalty to France. One-third of French Muslims do not object to suicide attacks. The British Centre for Social Cohesion reported that one-third of British Muslim students are in favor of a worldwide caliphate. Muslims demand what they call 'respect'. And this is how we give them respect. We have Muslim official state holidays.
The Christian-Democratic attorney general is willing to accept sharia in the Netherlands if there is a Muslim majority. We have cabinet members with passports from Morocco and Turkey.
Muslim demands are supported by unlawful behavior, ranging from petty crimes and random violence, for example against ambulance workers and bus drivers, to small-scale riots. Paris has seen its uprising in the low-income suburbs, the banlieus. I call the perpetrators 'settlers'. Because that is what they are. They do not come to integrate into our societies, they come to integrate our society into their Dar-al-Islam. Therefore, they are settlers.
Much of this street violence I mentioned is directed exclusively against non-Muslims, forcing many native people to leave their neighborhoods, their cities, their countries. Moreover, Muslims are now a swing vote not to be ignored.
The second thing you need to know is the importance of Mohammed the prophet. His behavior is an example to all Muslims and cannot be criticized. Now, if Mohammed had been a man of peace, let us say like Ghandi and Mother Theresa wrapped in one, there would be no problem. But Mohammed was a warlord, a mass murderer, a pedophile, and had several marriages - at the same time. Islamic tradition tells us how he fought in battles, how he had his enemies murdered and even had prisoners of war executed. Mohammed himself slaughtered the Jewish tribe of Banu Qurayza. If it is good for Islam, it is good. If it is bad for Islam, it is bad.
Let no one fool you about Islam being a religion. Sure, it has a god, and a here-after, and 72 virgins. But in its essence Islam is a political ideology. It is a system that lays down detailed rules for society and the life of every person. Islam wants to dictate every aspect of life.
Islam means 'submission'. Islam is not compatible with freedom and democracy, because what it strives for is sharia.
If you want to compare Islam to anything, compare it to communism or national-socialism, these are all totalitarian ideologies.
Now you know why Winston Churchill called Islam 'the most retrograde force in the world', and why he compared Mein Kampf to the Quran. The public has wholeheartedly accepted the Palestinian narrative, and sees Israel as the aggressor. I have lived in this country and visited it dozens of times. I support Israel. First, because it is the Jewish homeland after two thousand years of exile up to and including Auschwitz, second because it is a democracy, and third because Israel is our first line of defense.
This tiny country is situated on the fault line of jihad, frustrating Islam's territorial advance. Israel is facing the front lines of jihad, like Kashmir, Kosovo, the Philippines, Southern Thailand, Darfur in Sudan, Lebanon, and Aceh in Indonesia. Israel is simply in the way. The same way West-Berlin was during the Cold War.
The war against Israel is not a war against Israel. It is a war against the West. It is jihad. Israel is simply receiving the blows that are meant for all of us. If there would have been no Israel, Islamic imperialism would have found other venues to release its energy and its desire for conquest. Thanks to Israeli parents who send their children to the army and lay awake at night, parents in Europe and America can sleep well and dream, unaware of the dangers looming.
Many in Europe argue in favor of abandoning Israel in order to address the grievances of our Muslim minorities. But if Israel were, God forbid, to go down, it would not bring any solace to the West. It would not mean our Muslim minorities would all of a sudden change their behavior, and accept our values. On the contrary, the end of Israel would give enormous encouragement to the forces of Islam. They would, and rightly so, see the demise of Israel as proof that the West is weak, and doomed. The end of Israel would not mean the end of our problems with Islam, but only the beginning. It would mean the start of the final battle for world domination. If they can get Israel, they can get everything. So-called journalists volunteer to label any and all critics of Islamization as a 'right-wing extremists' or 'racists'. In my country, the Netherlands, 60 percent of the population now sees the mass immigration of Muslims as the number one policy mistake since World War II. And another 60 percent sees Islam as the biggest threat. Yet there is a danger greater danger than terrorist attacks, the scenario of America as the last man standing. The lights may go out in Europe faster than you can imagine. An Islamic Europe means a Europe without freedom and democracy, an economic wasteland, an intellectual nightmare, and a loss of military might for America??as its allies will turn into enemies, enemies with atomic bombs. With an Islamic Europe, it would be up to America alone to preserve the heritage of Rome, Athens and Jerusalem.
Dear friends, liberty is the most precious of gifts. My generation never had to fight for this freedom, it was offered to us on a silver platter, by people who fought for it with their lives. All throughout Europe American cemeteries remind us of the young boys who never made it home, and whose memory we cherish. My generation does not own this freedom; we are merely its custodians. We can only hand over this hard won liberty to Europe 's children in the same state in which it was offered to us. We cannot strike a deal with mullahs and imams. Future generations would never forgive us. We cannot squander our liberties. We simply don't have the right to do so.
Islam Watch - "Confronting Islam: 'America as the Last Man Standing'" by Geert Wilders
Nope not horrified, or mad at all, in fact I lose sleep every night but not cause of this ....in the slightest. I saw a video of Iraqi kids running up to a humvee loaded with marines, the Marines were cool and nice laughing and giving them MRE's but all I could think is if I were in that situation all those kids would be dead. In that situation I see no reasone why they should not have opened up and split em all down the middle. These guys and girls do a amazing job out thier despite all the things that are against them. I just wish we had better supplies for them than just rifels.
Whats the point. Nothing changes by showing the Government emotion.
You have to think like a sex slave, lay there, close your eyes and go to your happy place..
The Adult industry is the only thing that horrifies me. My dog snoop says it best,
It's kinda sick that you'd blast little kids away. Actually its not kinda...its completely fucked.Quote:
Originally Posted by MadSativa
Cause that will sure help them stop chanting "Death to America".
Im so worried that people actually think like this!!!
Again...PUT YOURSELF IN THEIR SHOES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How is that so damn difficult to get?
Picture an invading force here...then picture your kid being shot and killed by them. And what would you do?
how hard is it for people to pull their head out of their ass(or their ipod, or their 'bachelor' episode, or whatever other kind of pitiful propoganda/entertainment you are partaking in) and realize that even though there is a good aspect to this mission...the way we are going about it is wrong. Plain and simple.
All you hawks should just consider yourself lucky we aren't facing an invasion. Or that we don't speak chinese or russian, and we're not on the shitty end of the power pyramid. All's well and good when you're the one firing, isn't it....
Disgusting.
In Nam, little kids would walk up to soldiers, drop a live grenade at their feet and run.... I am surprised they are not having that prob in Iraq, or having probs with sappers either. I guess they are having enough problems with IEDs and car bombs. vigilance means you keep on living, indiference and/or letting your guard down can cost you and your fellow brothers in arms their lives. but they don't show those kinds of things in the media. They only show what they can sensationalize.Quote:
Originally Posted by FreshNugz
Yes I am a Viet nam era vet, and I still remember.
You can be damn sure if fucked up shit like this were happening in America, it would be us kicking their ass down the street.Quote:
Originally Posted by Breukelen advocaat
FreshNugz, you're completely right. Just want to congratulate you on your sane view.
I thought that was sarcasm when I first read it. That is how dumb you sound.Quote:
Originally Posted by Breukelen advocaat
So it doesn't matter that they're bombing the shit out of their own civilians but a couple of U.S people means they should be destroyed?
I'd say the only reason to destroy them is coz they are evil bastards.
I can tell you're one of those 'patriotic' people who would just nuke the whole middle east if you could.
Honestly I don't understand patriotism either. Why would you be proud of your country? Unless it's murder, rape etc. free and everyone is happy most of the time there is no reason to be proud.
And really it's just a group of people who all have different beliefs.
It's not like a whole country has ANYTHING in common besides walking on the same ground surrounded by water.
Anyway....
If the U.S really thinks they are so bad, they would bomb them to high heaven. It's not what it's about. Think about that.
To reiterate freshnugz view....
Why do you guys think it's okay to destroy people because they live in a different country or hold different beliefs?
As I said "every person holds different beliefs" not just every country.
Most of those people want to get out of there.
But most importantly, who are you to say that their beliefs are wrong!?
The only reason you do is because what you were brought up to believe is different.
Think about this, why is it wrong to marry a 12 year old?
Can actually think of any valid, rational reason?
To them it's perfectly fine because, obviously, most women start ovulating then so, naturally they are ready to have children.
To Western countries it's wrong because our law says you have to be 18 for some reason or another.
Honestly, give me a reason why it's wrong.
Then consider the same rationale with the rest of their beliefs.
Here are a few reason why a 12 year old should not be allowed to marry. For one they are too young to deal with all the emotional stresses that come with marriage and bearing children. Another is they are taken advantage of or sold off to some husband five times their age. Are you really telling me you think a 12 year old is capable of comprehending what marriage means for them? Do you think they are developed enough to make that choice themselves or be forced into it? Now about the patriotism. To be patriotic you do not have to fully agree with everything your country does or be proud of that. What I am proud of is what my country is suppose to stand for and hopefully one day will. I am proud of all the people who died fighting for my and your right to say what the hell ever we want. I am proud that no matter the cost we will defend freedom. If you can't find one reason to be proud of your country well....lets just say I am glad you are not American. For we do not need anymore sunshine patriots.
AMEN BROTHER!Quote:
Originally Posted by apocolips31
Can you blame the kids? The soldiers were there, after all, to wreak death and destruction on their countrymen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mississippi Steve
To whoever was talking about the U.S. defending freedom...you poor, naive bastard. The backing of the East Timor slaughter was not a defense of freedom, nor is the support of Israel's right to tyrannize whoever happen to live in the land of the chosen people, nor was the shit they've pulled in Haiti, Iran, Puerto Rico, etc. They act in their national interest, not to defend true freedom, but to defend their narrow definition of freedom, which means laissez faire corporatism at the expense of human dignity. In fact, their key position in the International Monetary Fund has led to them pressuring countries in debt to lower economic intervention and cut spending on health and education. No, they defend freedom the way the Soviets defended the Czechs' freedom in 1968 (the justification then being the defense of freedom from poisonous capitalistic tendencies).
Face it, patriots...what your country is doing in the world is purely self-serving, CEOs are the primary beneficiaries, and no amount of lust for security can justify constant pre-emption. "We'd rather fight them over there than over here"...sounds reasonable, but after decades of the violence happening over there, maybe it'd be fair to have some of it over here. Maybe then the horrors of war will be felt as a reality, not as a remote campaign that doesn't interfere with Sunday dinner.
Why are they too young? Only because Western society deems them too young. In other societies they are taught these things and it is the norm, so when they are twelve they are fully ready. Maybe not fully, but is anyone here even fully ready to have a kid? no you can't be until you have one.Quote:
Originally Posted by apocolips31
I'm not talking about selling kids, I'm talking about legitimate marriage or having kids.
And yeah as overgrow said, fighting wars has nothing to do with freedom. Let alone freedom of speech as people are saying. How the hell does blowing someone up give you freedom of speech huh?
A child should be playing with their friends and learning not being a mommy and house wife. Just because they can bear children doesn't mean they are ready to. Also their are plenty of studies which show a child's brain at that age is no where close to be fully developed. So what is the harm of marrying at an older age? Why do they want them so young? I will tell you why because they are sick child molesters and you are starting to sound like one too. Just trying to justify your sick fantasy's? If I am wrong I apologize but, that is how you are coming off to me. As for the part of freedom of speech and you failing to comprehend the connection between that and war. Blowing something up will help you gain freedom of speech, if what you are blowing up is what is prohibiting you from speaking in the first place. Did not our revolutionary war set the stage for us to create our own country? In turn giving us all the rights we enjoy today. So you see war and freedom are very closely linked, because if their is not a way to protect your self you will at some point fall victim to someone. If we couldn't repel the forces of the axis do you think we would be living as we do today? I wonder would their even be a thing called a "right" in such a world?
Quote:
Originally Posted by overgrowthegovt
How many years did you serve in the military?? None I bet.... What have you done to help secure your freedoms?? probably not much there either.
Maybe you should go to Iraq and explain the error of their ways. After all, they have only been at war for 4,000 years, and they treat their women like chattel, and kill them with minimum provocation by some very cruel means.
Feel free to go over there an tell them its not right. But unless you have first hand experience, you might want to re-think what you read in the biased media, and books. I don't mind fighting a war for human rights.....been there, done that. Come talk to me whan you can say the same.
The culture and belief systems of Islam are horrific, for the most part, but I'm all for just leaving them alone (not including finding and punishing criminals like bin Laden)......unless they start fucking with us again. Then you take the gloves off and wipe out their ability to fight for good. There seems to be a trend of less Islamic radicalism for the past few years. Maybe some have learned their lesson, but we shouldn't let our guard down, because their religion demands Jihad, and some will never be satisfied until they've killed off everybody that isn't a Muslim.Quote:
Originally Posted by luciddreamer
You seem to be quite fond of playing the age card and the veteran card with me as a strawman to shut me up...yeah, I'm young, and as a conscientious objector I plan on never serving in the military, but that doesn't invalidate my opinions. Also, believe me, nobody hates the biased media more than I do, and I currently don't obtain my views and opinions from it. Here in Canada, in fact, our media regularly shows its support for the war in Afghanistan, something that irks me to no end.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mississippi Steve
I've never violently secured my freedoms, no, and I don't plan on doing so--I keep informed and I write transgressional poetry, trying to maintain my freedom of mind by keeping my head above the propaganda waters. I could easily ask you condescendingly how many hours you've spent studying the ideas of the great philosophers, but I prefer to argue without degrading "come talk to me" ultimatums.
If it is indeed womens' rights that you believe in fiercely enough to justify carnage and destruction, then we should invade Saudi Arabia at once--oh, but they're economically more cooperative, so you won't hear any talk of that anytime soon. At least half of the countries in Africa could use a good pro-human rights bloody invasion too...where is the line drawn? I propose drawing it at not using violence as an engine of social change.
Look, I know you probably hate me for the views I hold, but I think we can look through that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mississippi Steve
I realize that was a part of the war in Vietnam. And I thought about that as I posted, I really did. But we're referring to a particular situation here, about a video where marines are having fun with a couple of kids. It's one actual piece of possibly positive news in that land of hell..and for someone to talk about shooting them in the situation we're referring to is sickening. Child VietCong is a complete other story, and I sympathize with soldiers who were faced with a decision like that one. I know you don't think so, but I do.
This has turned into a wider discussion on the morality complex(if any) of war. That's a whole other debate, first off. And second, wars are different. I feel differently about particular ones than I do about this current one, or I do about Vietnam.
I regret that I seem to have offended you, and your service for your country. I didn't intend it, please forgive it.
Keep on keepin' on.
I love how Mississippi Steve brought up Vietnam... and how children would drop grenades and run....
I would to, If i was a child of that era, living in Vietnam, I would have ALSO tried to kill you Steve, with whatever I had. You know why?
CAUSE YOU INVADED MY HOMELAND.
But keep combating that communism, or fascism, or is it socialism now? I forgot, it changes every 15 years, its hard to keep up.
***
Obviously people FOR the Iraq war, are reliving the Vietnam era over again, and they never were taught to learn from the history books.
in 30 years, our grandchildren will be taught in school how much of a failure and wrong circumstances we got ourselves into this war, and how our fear and policies made it worse.
too bad history is repeating itself, its a shame nobody learned. At least the people that have the power to act didn't.
But I want Steve to come back here and clarify if he thinks Vietnam was a just(sp?) war. I interpreted that he thinks it was.
I never said that Viet Nam was just.... but you can believe what you want.Quote:
Originally Posted by GrinKyle