Two Trainwreck's 400w HPS, LST, Closet Grow

First, I have to thank Cannabis.com for the great success of my first grow. I had some problems with temps (being able to close the closet), the smell was leaking out of my apartment, and I didn't have anything to measure pH.

I invested a couple hundred euros to fix these problems, and so far, everything seems to be going good.

Hereâ??s the list:

Seeds: Feminized Trainwreck from Greenhouse Seeds Co. Flowering time is 8-9 weeks (Last grow with one of these turned out very nicely!)
Soil: Biolan Musta Multa (N-100mg/l, P-60mg/l, K-400mg/l). I also put in about one quarter/one third vermiculite. I canâ??t find perlite here, and the last grow I used just soil and it was terrible to try and flush it. The vermiculite holds in the water and allows the water to run through with ease.
Nutes: Canna Terra Vega 3-1-4 (for veg) , Canna Terra Flores 2-2-4, Plagron, Green Sensation Top Activator 0-9-10 (Flores for flowering weeks 1-6/7, the top activator for weeks 2-6/7 of flowering
Light: 400 Watt HPS with Cooltube 12cm x 39cm long
Ventilation: 1 RUCK Tube fan RK100, 220m³ per hour, (129cfm), 10cm & 12cm aluminum duct (possible coming later: computer fan to blow over the tops)
Odor Control: Active Carbon Filter, 250 m³ per hour. 50cm long with 10cm connections, approx. 2,3 kg active carbon filling
Closet/Cabinet: 57cm x 57cm x 172cm tall (22.5in x 22.5in. x 67.5in.)
Vegetation: 24/0 light cycle

I sprouted these 2 Greenhouse Seed Co. Trainwreck seeds on Jan. 15, planted them in soil on Jan. 17, and one surfaced a day or so earlier than the other.

I first kept them under a couple 11w cflsâ??s and a 21w floro tube for the first couple weeks. Needless to say, not nearly enough light and when comparing it to my last grow, I knew it was time to get the 400hps in there.

Now itâ??s been about a week since I turned on the hps, and a couple days since I started half strength nutes. Today I started giving three quarter strength nutes, and raised the plants closer to the light. They are now about 30 cm from the cooltube, 33-34 cm from the light.

Iâ??ve also been LSTâ??ing a little bit this last week. I havenâ??t decided yet, whether I will SCROG or just continue the LST.

nice looking setup bro. seems like the space might be a bit small for 2 plants but i dont know how trainwreck grows out, i'm leaning towards your idea of scrog over lst.

Thanks for stopping by Animal. Yeah the closet got a whole lot tighter when I put in the fan and filter and cooltube, and another plant.

On my last grow I did the LST and it worked out well, but it was nearly impossible to keep all the tops at the same height. I've been planning for SCROG already, just not sure whether I could really do it. The advantage to the SCROG would be that I can control the tops (height/placement), but I know it takes a couple times to get it right. We'll see in few weeks...

Got some pretty decent drooping going on in those plants. What's up with that?

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Originally Posted by Weedhound

Got some pretty decent drooping going on in those plants. What's up with that?

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Not really sure... This happened last time also, but the leaves are very thick and feel solid. StinkyAttic said it could be because the reflection inside the closet is very good. I'm not too worried about it since last time everything turned out fine:jointsmile:

How do you like that fan? Does it give an approx decible rating? I have a similar 400hps closet grow going. A 75cfm computer fan exhausting my light works perfect now, but probably not when it gets warmer. I'll be keepin an eye on your grow. good luck - love that trainwreck.

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Originally Posted by jboog0

How do you like that fan? Does it give an approx decible rating? I have a similar 400hps closet grow going. A 75cfm computer fan exhausting my light works perfect now, but probably not when it gets warmer. I'll be keepin an eye on your grow. good luck - love that trainwreck.

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Thanks jboog,

The fan has been quite a pleasant surprise up to now. I thought it would be louder, but we sleep 10ft. away from the cabinet, and the fan is on all the time without disturbing our sleep. I've kept mine on 24/7 for the last week, and its still humming like new.

The decible rating on the Ruck site says 57 for this model. I just noticed they have some other models, one with a 4-speed and one with temperature control.

Ruck Fan Specifications

Right now, my house is about 23 degrees Celsius, and the cabinet with the door closed stays at 30 degrees Celsius. Lower temps for flowering would be better, but I managed with these temps last time, no problem:jointsmile:

thanks for the info.

I'd definitely throw a little comp. fan in there. My veg 'room' is under a coffee table wrapped up in b/w plastic. I had two ladies vegging in there and I didn't rotate them for about a week. The one opposite the fan drooped like in your pictures above. A little more airflow and its leaves stood straight up. And I'm talking a tiny/silent 40mm fan...

Got a little computer fan and phone charger today. Gonna work on it and try to get it hooked up to the end of the intake piping, blowing on to the top of the plants. Maybe this will help the drooping, but I'm not too worried about it yet.

It's been 29 days since I started this project. I went ahead and changed the closet setup. Tried a couple different ways, but in the end I lowered the light and hung the carbon filter and fan above the light. Now I dont have anything blocking the light and have the full grow area, and my temps dropped a few degrees to 28 C with the door closed and the light on.

Plants have jumped up also since the transplant. I dont know if it was the addition of the small computer fan blowing over the canopy, the re-pot to 10L buckets, or the fact that I have been watering it much less than before or my last grow. (Last grow, I was giving water sometimes 2 times a day, now the soil still feels a little damp a couple inches down. I think its the vermiculite, which is supposed to hold in water very well)

Whatever the reason, they are looking much better now, and could be ready for the SCROG sometime next week, and then ready for flowering maybe the week after.

Some more pics...

I had to re-tie the main growth stem to get an even canopy, and just let if grow from there. If a shoot starts to really outgrow the canopy I'll tie it down, but otherwise I'll just wait to get the screen and let it grow into that.

They were starting to get quite large, so i thought it was time for a transplant and the scrog.

Learned a valuable lesson about LST: Don't tie the string too tight...lol...sounds logical but I was really surprised how much she grew over the last few days (went out of town for 3 days). The main stem ended up breaking a couple nodes down, but its still somewhat attached, so I'm hoping for the best.

I've been trying to make the closet light proof also, but as you can see from the pics, there is still light coming from the exhaust in the top left of the closet.

These first couple pics are of the plants after transplant, but before I did the SCROG.

Here's how I did the scrog. I tried to get press the chicken wire down on the plants a little bit, then I spread out the branches and growth stems at the same time. Finally, I used twisty ties to hold things in place. Except for taking off a couple crusty leaves from the bottom, I haven't done any trimming yet. I will probably let this go for a couple day before I switch to flowering. I'm doing this based on how much this same strain grew after switching to 12/12. I will probably have to maintain the screen for a couple weeks into flowering, then I can let everything grow upwards.

those are some real good lookin plants:jointsmile:

Hi Finn, nice plants!! I do think it is a bit warm in there, you should shoot for closer to 25 degrees. One thing I noticed was that your fan is between the filter and light. The fan should be last, after the light, as it pulls alot better than it pushes. It you put the fan on the exhaust port then the light, finally the filter, your temps may be a bit better!:thumbsup:

How old is your kid? I was just admiring your pictures there. Everything looks nice and clean, good job.

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Originally Posted by AllforMe

Hi Finn, nice plants!! I do think it is a bit warm in there, you should shoot for closer to 25 degrees. One thing I noticed was that your fan is between the filter and light. The fan should be last, after the light, as it pulls alot better than it pushes. It you put the fan on the exhaust port then the light, finally the filter, your temps may be a bit better!:thumbsup:

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Yeah, the temps are a little problem, especially since I keep my house at about 23 C, its very hard to get that temp down. Not the best, but it should do...

As for the fan, the place I bought it from suggested pushing the air through the cooltube so that the fan doesn't overheat. This fan is rated for like 75 C i think, but just to be safe I did it like they said.

Thanks for stoppin' by:jointsmile:

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Originally Posted by Lit Up

How old is your kid? I was just admiring your pictures there. Everything looks nice and clean, good job.

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Thanks dude:D... Tryin' my best here!

I think it was Jan. 15 that I germinated them, and Jan. 17 that I put them into the soil. But I only had a fluorescent tube and two 11w CFL's for the first couple weeks while I was waiting for all the new gear. They didn't grow much at all until I put them under the hps almost 3 weeks ago.

Should be ready for flowering very soon.:giveflower:

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Originally Posted by bigtopsfinn

Yeah, the temps are a little problem, especially since I keep my house at about 23 C, its very hard to get that temp down. Not the best, but it should do...

As for the fan, the place I bought it from suggested pushing the air through the cooltube so that the fan doesn't overheat. This fan is rated for like 75 C i think, but just to be safe I did it like they said.

Thanks for stoppin' by:jointsmile:

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Nah man it's a 400. I run a very similar fan with 2 400s and have not ever had a problem, in 2 + years. I have never seen anyone run it your way without being corrected, it is definitely the right way to go. Anyone else agree?

Oh, and if you must run it like that, do not bend before the light.. It really suffers when you force it around a bend, then into a light. The air just bounces around in the light before it blows out, and raises the temps quite a bit. That fan cost what, maybe 200$ american tops? That plant is worth much more. Forget that the fan probably will hold up fine. Even if you fry it eventually, the increase in yield could be substantial. Heat stress really slows the plants growth a bunch, I know this from experience! Plus the fan will be fine lol! If you still want to keep it that way no hard feelings, I just want to help out.:jointsmile:

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Originally Posted by AllforMe

Nah man it's a 400. I run a very similar fan with 2 400s and have not ever had a problem, in 2 + years. I have never seen anyone run it your way without being corrected, it is definitely the right way to go. Anyone else agree?

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i agree

Thanks for the input guys... I dunno, I'm thinking about how I could it...

The problem is that if I put the fan after the cooltube, there is no room for it in the closet, and if I somehow tie it to the top of the closet and hang it over the edge (outside of the closet), its gonna lean against the back wall and make a lot of vibrating noise.

If you have any ideas of how to mount the fan inside/outside my limited space, I'm all ears:jointsmile:

I went and changed my setup again, this is like the 4th different setup I have had with all the same equipment.

This new setup solved a lot of issues:
1) The fan is now pulling air through both the carbon filter and cooltube
2) Fewer bends in ducting - more efficient
3) With the fan last, now there is no more light leak from the exhaust
4) Should do something with the temps, The temps in the direct light are still about the same, haven't tried to measure it yet..

This change cost me about â?¬3... Just bought some metal reinforcements, rope, and bolts/washers/nuts to hang up the fan.

I put the old tubing on the end of the fan, just for sound insulation because we have to sleep in this room also...

Much Better!! How is that scrog tied down? or is it just like a trellis holding the plant together? I scrog with dwc. I built it out of pvc, after what I saw someone on here do, except he did it to a netpot and used chicken wire. This was a querkle mother I just picked clean last week, so I decided to throw her in the screen under a 400. She is in flower 3 days today!:thumbsup:
[ATTACH][attachment=o213511][/ATTACH]

I'm using chicken wire and twist ties for the scrog. I pretty much just cut the chicken wire to size, pressed it down a little on the plants, and started to tie the growth shoots to the wire while tucking larger fan leaves below the screen. Yeah, its not evenly flat, hopefully that won't make it hard to maintain an even canopy. Plus when I'm done tying, I can cut away any extra chicken wire to make it easier to rotate/transport.

Just put mine into flowering last night. I'm expecting to be done sometime in late April. (I just hope my stash from the last grow is enough to last till then:jointsmile:)

This is now Day 7 of flowering. I have continued to pull new shoots and fan leaves underneath the screen. It's hard not to go pick at it every 10 minutes, but typically I will tuck everything one day, and let it grow for a day or two when I will go through and tuck everything again. This seems to work well, as new shoots have time to grow up into the canopy.

I haven't used the twist ties much. In fact, I've been cutting most of them off, as it makes arranging the branches easier. The only times I use them now are when I want to lift a branch so its lower and middle shoots are closer to the light. I've also made the SCROG into a stadium type. I tied string to the chicken wire near the middle of the SCROG in a couple places, and pulled down the center of the screen and tied the string to the dish rack underneath the buckets. Besides a couple twist ties, the screen is pretty much just sitting on top of the plants, being pulled down in the center by the string.

I have been watering every three days. Two times I gave it the Canna Flores at half strength and then full strength, with the last feeding just water. I think I will give it a half dose of the top activator next feeding, followed by the Canna Flores the following, and plain water after, and just continue that until I have to do the final flush.

Thats looking great I'm looking forward to see the differences in what ya yield compared to your last grow. Good luck!

I just took them out today to turn them and do a little adjusting with the screen and the tops. I also rotated 180 degrees. Starting to show flowers already. Hopefully the worst of the stretching is over by now, because I'm starting to run out of room for all the tops in some areas.

I've started feeding it both the Canna Terra Flores and the Plagron Green Sensation Top Activator, with water on the third feeding. No sign of any tip burn, so I think I will start to gradually and SLOWLY increase the nutes, stopping at the first sign of tip burn.

In one thread about Scrog, it said after 2 weeks of flowering, its advised to trim all of the leaves and growth underneath the screen. This supposedly helps in air circulation, and no energy is wasted in the little popcorn buds. However, Scrog is already very unnatural for the plant, so I don't think I will be doing any trimming at this time. I'm gonna run out of bud here pretty soon, so I'll probably end up starting from the bottom again!:jointsmile:

Looking great!

Wow thats alot of plant at week 2!! They look good finn, as far as the stretch, the 40/60 phenomenon is in effect. They spend 40% of flowering time stretching, and 60% in late flower. Most 8 week strains stretch for 22-25 days. Imagine if you didn't have the scrog! If you don't trim the undergrowth it will waste hormones and energy that would otherwise have gone to the canopy. Just go down and clean off the stems, pinch off all lower bud sites, and trim all leaves that don't get light. Don't remove too much in 1 shot. Do 1/2 of what you want to remove per plant, then in 2 or 3 days do the rest. I do it all at once and never have a problem. With the amount of foliage you got there I doubt you'll be able to remove enough to stunt them. Just do it now before it gets too far into budding. it's the perfect time! There is alot of yellowing growth in there that you may want to get rid of. WHile scrog is unnatural, once you do it you change the growth pattern and there is just way too much floiage that will get no light and then thats where problems will start, you got 6 more weeks of that dying foliage just getting buried then rotting! I will say you made the absolute most out of that limited space tho! Next time start budding much earlier and you'll be ok! No matter what those will put out some nice yield with all that light on such an even canopy!

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Originally Posted by AllforMe

Wow thats alot of plant at week 2!! They look good finn, as far as the stretch, the 40/60 phenomenon is in effect. They spend 40% of flowering time stretching, and 60% in late flower. Most 8 week strains stretch for 22-25 days. Imagine if you didn't have the scrog! If you don't trim the undergrowth it will waste hormones and energy that would otherwise have gone to the canopy. Just go down and clean off the stems, pinch off all lower bud sites, and trim all leaves that don't get light. Don't remove too much in 1 shot. Do 1/2 of what you want to remove per plant, then in 2 or 3 days do the rest. I do it all at once and never have a problem. With the amount of foliage you got there I doubt you'll be able to remove enough to stunt them. Just do it now before it gets too far into budding. it's the perfect time! There is alot of yellowing growth in there that you may want to get rid of. WHile scrog is unnatural, once you do it you change the growth pattern and there is just way too much floiage that will get no light and then thats where problems will start, you got 6 more weeks of that dying foliage just getting buried then rotting! I will say you made the absolute most out of that limited space tho! Next time start budding much earlier and you'll be ok! No matter what those will put out some nice yield with all that light on such an even canopy!

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Thanks for stopping by!

I'm pretty sure this will stop stretching upwards after this week, at least going by my pictures from the last grow.

I have also been picking off leaves that were already about to fall off (there are some yellow leaves in the pics, but they are still attached firmly to the plant). I'm still debating whether to start chopping all of the growth under the screen. Yeah, it makes sense to me, but this is also a heavy hermie strain, and I don't want to stress it anymore than I already have. Well, the more I think about it, I will probably start picking off the bottom stuff little by little. The problem really isn't with the growth underneath the screen, but rather around the screen, where I tuck all of the fan leaves...

I stopped thinking about trimming and just did it. I also went ahead and tucked everything underneath the screen again, and should have exposed some more bud sites. Looking back at it now, I'm thinking maybe I went a little overboard, but oh well. I got a lot of trimmings, and I think I'm gonna turn them into Cannabutter. :jointsmile:

Ughhh. VErrrrrrry NICE!:thumbsup: My scrog was a scraggly mother that outlived her use so I will have nowhere CLOSE to that kind of screen! Glad you trimmed you will not regret it!

looking great man! those are gonna be sum tastey buds growing :thumbsup:

Thanks for the comments!

Nothing new here...besides the buds getting bigger. 6 more weeks to go:jointsmile:

wow very kewl grow log!

Thanks Frosty!

Four weeks into flowering now. I have been seeing a lot of yellowing leaves, especially on one of the plants. I'm thinking its just a N deficiency, but it seems a little early into flowering for that. Anyway, the new growth is green and healthy, the nugs are starting to take shape, and its getting quite stinky in my closet.

I ran out of weed yesterday :( Hopefully I can keep myself from picking off 'tasters' until they are finished.

That for me is going to hurt having to wait it out till nature gives me the treats I have patiently been waiting for..I commend you on your discipline.:cool:

Hey Frosty... thanks for the rep attempt,:jointsmile: but I think you need 50 posts before it counts for me LOL.

Tell me about tough times... I went over 6 months without smoking and started on my first grow. I was picking and smoking leaves!!! And yes, they got me pretty high, until I started picking off tiny buds from the bottom, which got me really high!

Yeah better to wait, but even after I picked at my plant almost everyday for the last month of flowering, I still had enough smoke to last me for 3 months getting high everyday (most of the time ALL DAY):rastasmoke:

One of the many mistakes from my first grow, that I hope not to repeat this time... we'll see, only 5 more weeks.

So I can't really figure out this yellowing... it's really just on one of the plants mostly. I went ahead and flushed both of the girls with 30L of plain tap water, run-off ph was 6.6-6.8... I even took readings with the cloudy amber run-off AND after filtering the run-off so it was clear, and same thing! I even tasted the run-off, but nothing special... tasted like dirt, not metallic or salty, so I guess it's ok.

The nugs are still growing... the nugs on one plant look a little healthier, but no huge difference. Just have to wait and see how things go this week...