Going to start growing w/LED

I just bought a Procyon 100 after doing my first plant with very beginner equipment. Looking for a cooler operation with less power, and not afraid to pay up front for a 100 watt LED solution.

I am in San Clemente and I am a totally new grower. I just decided I had done enough research, and knew what I wanted to do, saw the thread about LED lighting and figured if they can do it I can do it. I don't want to run up a high bill or try to grow a ton of plants. Just for myself so I can control the strain and quality.

I guess that's it for now (first post). We'll see where things go from here.

how many led lights would you need to cover the same sq ft as a 1000 watt systemor a 6x6 ft grow area?

I will wild-ass-guess and say 300 watts, which would cost you about $1500.

www.LEDwholesalers.com

In 70 watt increments, I think the blue in the center with 7 reds on the outside for $45 (fixture) + $33 x 6 + 35 = 45 + 231 = $273 for 10 x 7 = 70 watts or $3.90 per watt

If you do the 15 watt bulbs it's $45 + 62 * 6 + 67 = $484 for 15 x 7 = 105 watts or $4.60 per watt

If you do the Procyon 100, is $549 from indoor agriculture for 100 watts or $5.50 per watt.

Buy LED Grow Lights, Procyon 100
Procyon-100 100W LED Grow Light - HomeGrownLights.com

So basically you're going to pay $3 to $5 per watt for LED and you need about 1/3 as much wattage. Someone is going to correct me here, but that's okay, I'm doing the best I can to answer the question.

People selling the LED lights are going to say you need less than 1/3 the wattage, but I think if you go to 1/4 the wattage or less, you're going to be disappointed.

This is my BEST GUESS so please be easy on me if my numbers are wrong. I did a lot of crunching before pulling the trigger on the Procyon and more importantly seeing the results of other growers on this forum indicating it does in fact work.

Also, you can get these bulbs cheaper that this too if you scrounge, but I figured I would just pay full price since I only need 100 watts, the most I could save is probably $150 or so, and if I was price conscious, I wouldn't be doing LED to begin with.

To clear up from a hopefully unbiased source, this reference cites that LED's use 20%-30% electricity and I think much of what is repeated in the grow community originates from this bit of research unless someone can show me earlier publishings of these findings. This supports the worst case of get at least 1/3 as much wattage in LED's to match competing non-LED technology.

http://www.ledgrowlights.com/univers...nn%20study.PDF

The other benefits are listed in this PDF as well. This PDF is hosted by a seller, but it appears to be legitimate research on effectiveness of LED growing.

To break even on costs takes a number of years of electricity savings. But if you goal is to be cooler, quieter, or your operation isn't big enough that the cost is a factor, the cost isn't the motivation.

Anyway, I hope this 1/3 to 1/5 ratio on wattage is a good rule of thumb to keep in mind in answer to your question.

Also curious to who can put together the lowest cost per watt on LED lighting. It would be nice to see $2/watt.

I dont know how creative you are but you could always buy seperate LEDs in bulk (ebay has tons of colors and vendors selling bunches of LEDS) I personally bought 1000 Blue LEDS for less then 10 bucks with shipping. If you know how or know someone that can, solder up your own LED light source.

Ive done this before but with battery power and waaaaay less LEDs involved so i couldnt tell you whats involved to supply the right amount of power. And I am a very new grower in the process of research and building my own LED light source for a small contained grow area. but it is a thought to cut down on the immediate price of LEDs. Radio shack also sells LED bulbs seperately but I believe its a bit more pricey then ebay. hope this helps you, or anyone else

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aahigh

I just bought a Procyon 100 after doing my first plant with very beginner equipment. Looking for a cooler operation with less power, and not afraid to pay up front for a 100 watt LED solution.

I am in San Clemente and I am a totally new grower. I just decided I had done enough research, and knew what I wanted to do, saw the thread about LED lighting and figured if they can do it I can do it. I don't want to run up a high bill or try to grow a ton of plants. Just for myself so I can control the strain and quality.

I guess that's it for now (first post). We'll see where things go from here.

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What doing a grow with a procyon also live in vista will keep up with your thread check mine out!

lookin forward to it!

Still waiting on the light from indoor agriculture to arrive. Vista is close. Assuming you have your doctors note, we should get together to help each other out. I ride Ortega tons, and maybe you could show me around some twisties or something south of Pendleton.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aahigh

Still waiting on the light from indoor agriculture to arrive. Vista is close. Assuming you have your doctors note, we should get together to help each other out. I ride Ortega tons, and maybe you could show me around some twisties or something south of Pendleton.

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Hell yeah Well Get together Yeah Have my rec. from my dr. Usually Im stocked up but using a delivery service right now yummy for another week.Im apart of a MC so we should ride [email protected] hit me up.

$2 per watt .. 55 watt for $115. Listed as "new item."

http://www.ledwholesalers.com/store/...ads/2507MX.jpg

www.LEDwholesalers.com - 55 Watt LED Plant Hydroponic Grow light Panel Red Blue

I don't want to be a downer but you could use a 400w HPS with 2 plants and grow way more than you need for personel use and your electric bill along with your start up cost would be way less, plus a 400w doesnt put off an incredible amount of heat. Just my 2cents.:wtf:

Check out this LED flashlight. Also uses CREE LED's which are the same as the Procyon 100:

www.LEDwholesalers.com - Dual Head 3 WATT CREE & 5 Ultra Violet LED 3 AAA COMPACT

Check out what CREE did for the Olympics:

CREE | Cree Lights Up Beijing with LED Lighting

LED's will get better and cheaper. LED's are way cooler than old fashioned lights.

:D

Dang, missed out on the $549 Procyons from indoor agriculture. Seems that was just a 'black friday' special which ran a little longer than that weekend due to some server issues they were having. Hopefully they'll drop the price permanently sometime soon!

What kind of light timer are you using? does the Procyon 100 have a built in timer?

The light shipped (finally) yesterday fedex ground.

The timer I use is a $4.95 timer from Lowe's.

Intermatic at Lowe's: Lamp Timer

I doubt there is a built-in timer, but with any multi-light setup u want seperate timer ne way.

More stuff on LED while waiting for the Procyon 100:

R.I.P. for CFLs? LEDs to Light our Future | QUEST Community Science Blog - KQED

CREE has recently announced (Nov 18, 2008) they can achieve 170 Lumens per Watt (lpw).

I don't know what the lpw's are on the XLamps, but I suspect they are more than the 55w panels. Would be interesting to know. Of course red led's aren't rated the same as white light used for human illumination.

Al interesting and recent developments though.

That timer is only for 2 prong plugs is it not? Light is prob 3 prong since most everything of any size is going 3 prong grounded these days. Digital 3 prong grounded timer at Walmart $12 and duel outlet type $16.

Procyon arrived. Need to locate some seeds or clones and get things set up. Anyone in San Clemente or Orange County who has some deals on clones, please let me know. I will probably head to CCR in LA to try to get some Grape Ape seeds or clones if I can. I just can't find Grape Ape here in OC and have found it's my favorite.

SD MediCal San Diego-Costal LJ-OB - Clones, MEDS, Friends, Links

if you want to go to sd here is a place with clones check it out!

Fuck Dumped my bike on sun off the 5 letting insurance do its thing

I attached an image from first day. Bought the clone at APCC for $18 (10% off until christmas on a bunch of stuff).

Can you tell I'm a newb. Check out the aqua globes I got at Wal Mart!

http://boards.cannabis.com/indoor-li...0-details.html

some cross posting hopefully :)

Couple more photos.

Hi Iâ??m new here I plan to start indoor grow I am a second gin grower my grand pop has been growing since 1968 ill touch back on that later I plan on growing with 2 ufos led lights and one 400 watt hid will the hid supplement the leds good frist time with leds ggot ufos for 200$ thats y there not the procloyns? NOW my grand pop has tons of og seed I mean he has a fridge full donâ??t worry the temp is cool a enough to just keep the seeds in great condition he has them all separated and logged I mean original afghan from 1965 and alcompoco gold etc. he was in the army so when he was station in he collected seeds from Germany and other parts of the world morocco hash plant when they took time to select the best plants Vietnam seeds Pakistan ,hawi, parts of china and so on and so on all labeled and separated. Now his been growing in the mountains for more than 35 years and breeding the plants and he log those seeds I mean grow journals stacks of them he has had plants so acclimated that they can sit out in the snow for weeks he has had plants come up completely purple I mean the whole thing from tips leaves to the main trunk SPECS GREEN IN THE BUD LIKE HOW PLANT HAVE SPECS OF PURPLE he has pics of some plants over 18 feet not joking he can he has a gold mine of amazing genetics but his really old fashion so he does not talk to anyone he does not grasp what he has he has seed that breeders die for. true unaffected strains that were thought to be lost to time he could start a seed bank that breeder would buy from because of the gene pool I need to know who to contact so I can preserve this genetics no lie this could revolutionize the growing world. I mean stuff in plant I never seeded before and I have been reading hightimes and in to the pot seen a while smoke the top strains AK-47 Strawberry cough white widow g-13 etc and when I go visit him and smoke some pinners the stuff just floors me I donâ??t know if itâ??s because a lot of the stuff today has a low ratio of cnbs to thc or that a hell of a lot of plant today our what we call white resin weeds want to get his seeds out to the people he could a start a seed bank that original pheno types stuff that no one has I mean no one. If I could get these seed to breeders we could grow long forgotten strains like Asian girl this would be great. I thought of name all ready old school seeds lol. But seriously he is getting old I have to do something sorry to jack your post how do I post mine I canâ??t find out how to do it or I would of PLEASE HELP ME OUT to get these seeds out to people email me at [email protected]

:rastasmoke::hippy::thumbsup: ps best a luck to your grow man

Well, I am ready to pick this thread back up, but waiting for some stability on the servers. My grow is going better and plant is happy. I added 2 CFL's and a 100 watt incandescent, but have kept the 100 watt incandescent off most of the time. I will get some photos together soon.

Here's my latest photos. I added two 23W CFL's and a 100W Incandescent Grow bulb to the Procyon. I leave the 100W off most of the time except to generate some heat if it's too cold or wet.

I water the plant twice a day, and I am planning to switch to a bubbler to speed along the growth rate once I learn more about DWC. I am growing tired of checking the plant 3-4 times a day to make sure it has enough water and isn't drying up too much. It went 36 hours without any attention and that dried it up a bit, but I pruned what burned.

Also, this plant started as a tiny baby clone on January 28th. The first plant from december dried out and died days after I got it. Yes, I am a newb.

I am open to suggestions, so please let me know if you have any ideas. Also the strain is "bubblegum."

I've got a Procyon and have used just about everything, including a 400w. HPS, along with it.

Your plant looks rootbound. Get that baby into a 1 gal pot with good soil (Fox Farms Ocean Forest with an extra spritz of perlite has always served me well, tho' some knowledgeable folks around here don't care for it) unless you have some plan to convert this to a DWC grow somehow.

Watering twice a day will turn your soil to muck and essentially drown your plants. The soil needs to dry out a bit. Not so much that it shrinks and cracks, but in an appropriate sized pot, watering every 2 to 4 days (depending on a HUGE set of variables--temperature, wind/air circulation, ambient humidity, soil mix, etc) is more in the ballpark.

One sign that you're getting rootbound is that the plant won't "take" any water. It just flows out of the container because the root mass won't hold water like soil does. So your plant dries out too quickly.

Another sign is the plant gets yellow, like it's starving for Nitrogen. Rootboundness interferes with nutrient uptake, so even if you've got nutes in your soil, the plant can't effectively use them. Yer baby needs a new house! :rasta:

If you do continue this plant in soil, it will be ready to transplant AGAIN (I'd go up to a 3 gal pot) in prolly less than 2 weeks. Plants like to be transplanted if you do it right. :thumbsup:

Your CFL's and incand are way too far away. All they are doing out there is adding heat to your grow environment. If you expect any benefit from them (and a lot of us have done this experiment) they need to be INCHES away--not feet. Basically, as close as you can get 'em without heating up your plant too much, and without blocking the light from your Procyon. Some crude reflectors for your CFLs will help, too. If you're lighting up things that aren't plants (like your ceiling) you're wasting light energy. ;)

Hope this helps. If you are staying in soil I can help you with the transplanting. Good Luck, Hermie

On the CFL's. Those are fine. Fan's in a good spot, too.

Here's some updated pics following your recommendations, Hermie.

I know the pot is probably not 1 gallon, but it's bigger than the 16oz cup I had before, and yes the roots were all around the outside edge of the cup.

Ouch. She looks sick. If she's not looking better in about 3-4 days, you might need to take another look at the roots.

You always want to avoid damaging your root hairs. That's where the real action is, and they're very fragile. You don't even wanna touch 'em if you don't have to. But marijuana roots sometimes start spiraling around in a small container, and even when the plant's repotted, the roots keep growing in that spiral and the plant stays "rootbound." :wtf:

If your roots don't start reaching into the new soil, sometimes they need to be carefully "fluffed up" to break them out of their pattern. Like I said, you want to avoid molesting your roots when possible. Just trying to throw something out there in case your girl doesn't look any better by say, Thursday. At that point, I think I'd look again at those roots. If they look like they're making their own little ice cream cone (shape) you may need to tease 'em a little. ;)

Your goal is to always have your roots nearly filling your container. They go where they find water, so don't water right down the stem of your plant if it's in a brand-new big container. Water where you think the ends of the roots are and try and coax the roots into exploring the new medium. There's nothing skankier than a little bitty rootball in a big, wet pot. The outer reaches of the pot never dry out, and the soil gets like dead, oxygen deficient, stagnant water. :(

And get those CFL's in there close--don't be shy. Those are tender baby clones in the red cups, and they're not getting fried. (Kids, do not make a ghetto reflector out of tin foil wrapped around the ballast of the CFL. Definitely not safe, and prolly only marginally effective. Not a permanent fixture.) :D

[attachment=o213586]

I don't know if you can tell, Hermie, if it looks better or worse, but I just took this shot after repotting and moving closer to the light. It is definitely keeping water for longer .. about 36 hours with no additional water at this point. Will water after 48 hours.

What brand / type of soil are you using? Any perlite or other lighteners / conditioners?

And by the way, if that pot has a built-in saucer on the bottom, rip it off. Just set the pot on a clean, dry saucer or small plate. You don't want to have standing water in the bottom of the pot, or in that saucer. That's why you also need an inch or so marble-sized gravel in the bottom of your pot.

There's lotsa FAQ's around here but not so many devoted to "just" soil. :wtf: Read what you can find, and I'll help ya if I can.

If you can let the plant go longer than 48 hours, let her dry some more. When mj starts getting thirsty, she'll pull water from the bottom leaves first, and they'll start wilting. It's not good to let the plant go this far real often, (it does stress the plant a bit and change the chemical environment) but if you notice the bottom-most leaves going limp while everything else looks good, that's when you NEED to water. The plant does give us that warning. It won't just turn crispy and die suddenly--you've got a 12-24 hour window (again, huge variables) to help the plant rehydrate those bottom leaves. ("Water pressure" inside the plant cells is what gives the plant turgidity; when she starts to dry she gets limp.)

I'll try to find an example pic somewhere. ;)

Your yellowed growth is gonna stay that way. So when you're checking your girl for signs of improvement check out the new growth instead. But leave the old ugly growth on the plant. She'll drop it when she's done using what she wants from it.

Using a miracle grow dirt from Lowes. It advertised to have better water retention.

New growth is looking greener, as is the whole plant. I will post pics again soon.

latest first w/o flash second w/flash

here's the latest photo.

looking better than ever today. thx 4 advice hermie. transplanted twice since your suggestion and i think she may be ready for the last transplant soon.

So here's the latest photo. I went to transplant today, but it wasn't root bound yet, so I kept it in the same pot.

Sorry man, I wrote you a long post about my "secret" techniques to make soil love you, and it got eaten. :mad: Haven't had time to try to recreate it. But you're looking good now! I'll keep checkin' in. Best, Hermie

I know the feeling. I hate losing posts. Of course you realize how much you enjoy the board when it's not working properly or it's out of order for a while.

I'll post another photo soon, not that anything is all that much different.

Here's the setup with the 3 CFL's and the Procyon. Procyon has been off the grow for the last 3 weeks, so we will see if things get better or worse after adding it back in today. I don't run the Procyon 24/7 either because the light is so bright and I don't have an enclosure. It makes going into my closet a traumatic experience, so I try to just run it overnight when I'm asleep.