China Rattles Sabres at Taiwan and US

China rattles sabres at Taiwan and U.S.
Globe and Mail ^ | 3-15-05 | GEOFFREY YORK


China rattles sabres at Taiwan and U.S. By GEOFFREY YORK

Tuesday, March 15, 2005 Updated at 1:23 AM EST

From Tuesday's Globe and Mail

Tokyo â?? In the halls of Chinese power, a moment of raw emotion yesterday exposed the escalating tensions that could some day ignite a war between China and the United States over the issue of Taiwan.

The surge of emotion came on a historic day when China for the first time approved a law authorizing a military attack on Taiwan if the island takes any "major steps" toward independence.

Chinese Prime Minister Wen Jiabao tried to reassure journalists that the law was a peaceful gesture, "not a war bill."

But at his annual press conference in the grandiose Great Hall of the People, he began talking of the "bullying and humiliation" that China had suffered from foreigners over the past century.

Then he fired a blunt warning directly at Washington, making it clear that he is prepared for war with the United States if necessary.

"We won't brook foreign interference," he said defiantly. "We don't hope for foreign interference, but we are not afraid of it."

It was an electric moment, and it triggered an excited response from the hundreds of normally staid Chinese journalists and officials in the room. There was thunderous applause.

Just two hours earlier, the applause had been even more thunderous when China's rubber-stamp parliament voted by a margin of 2,896-0 (with two abstentions) to approve the anti-secession law aimed at Taiwan.

The parliament also approved on Sunday a hefty 12.6-per-cent rise in China's military spending, while President Hu Jintao issued his own fierce words to China's military leaders.

"We shall step up preparations for possible military struggle and enhance our capabilities to cope with crises, safeguard peace, prevent wars and win the wars, if any," Mr. Hu told the military officials on Sunday.

None of this amused the administration of President George W. Bush in Washington.

"We view the adoption of the anti-secession law as unfortunate," White House press secretary Scott McClellan said yesterday.

"We oppose any attempts to determine the future of Taiwan by anything other than peaceful means. We don't want to see any unilateral attempts that would increase tensions in the region. So, this is not helpful."

U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, who will visit Beijing this week, had even sharper criticism for the anti-secession law.

"Clearly, it raises tensions," she said on Sunday. "And it's not necessary or a good thing to raise tensions."

Last month, the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency warned that China's military buildup, including its hundreds of nuclear missiles, could "tilt the balance" across the Taiwan Strait and "threaten U.S. forces in the region."

In Taipei, the anti-secession law provoked a furious reaction from the Taiwanese government and pro-independence groups. One group of parliamentarians burned the Chinese flag at a rally to protest against the law.

"The law is tantamount to authorization of war," cabinet spokesman Cho Jung-tai told reporters yesterday.

Taiwan President Chen Shui-bian is calling for a massive street protest by one million people in Taipei on March 26 to oppose the Chinese law. Elected members of his political party reacted to the law by denouncing Mr. Hu and Mr. Wen as "dictators who are sinners in history."

Japan also expressed fears about the anti-secession law yesterday, worrying that it could inflame tensions between Beijing and Taipei. Seeking to deflect the criticism, Mr. Wen emphasized that the law contained provisions to encourage more passenger flights between Taiwan and the Chinese mainland, more trade and business links and more cultural exchanges between the two sides.

He said the law was designed to "check and oppose" the pro-independence movement in Taiwan, but he promised to seek a peaceful solution "as long as there is a ray of hope."

The clash over the anti-secession law is an example of the dangerous drift of the Taiwan issue, which has emerged as one of the world's most volatile flashpoints.

On the Taiwan side, Mr. Chen is pledging to write a new Taiwan constitution and get it approved by a referendum within the next three years, yet Beijing has warned that it could view this as a step towards independence.

Howdy Y'all,

Well...still think that the red chinese ain't a threat ?

Hard-line commies,in China,Russia and North Korea,still have dreams of a Communist world..and they have spent billions,on the military's,while the Left continues to claim that communism is a valid and viable form of goverment,that for the most part,commies are peaceful and content with what they have already taken by bloody force,that they are no longer interested in world domination,that the biggest threat to the world,is America,not commies armed with thousands of nuclear warheads,yada yada etc.

The Left,is always making excuses for our enemies,even going so far,that Klintoon,passed the red chinese our nuclear secrets and gps technology,so that the red chinese,could achieve nuclear parity with the US,and balance out the 'threat',that the Left believes,America poses to the world.

One problem is,is that the folks in the above mentioned countries,mostly want to be free-it's the hard-line commie leadership,that is the real problem..just like in Iran and Syria,there are folks who want to live in peace with the world and have a democratic goverment. But they are mostly helpless-in the face of brutal tryanny..the Left,desires to doom these folks to brutal tryanny-especially if it means growing a spine and standing up to the dictatorships..the Right,seeks to spread democratic goverments and liberate folks from tryanny..who is right ?

Is it better,to not rock the boat..or to create a huge wave of hunger..for Freedom ?

Oh Noes!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Encatuse

Oh Noes!

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Howdy Encatuse,

What say you ? Should Taiwan become a free and democratic country-or..should we abandon them to the brutality of the commie chinese - in order to not rock the boat ?

Have a good one....

I would absolutely love to see China become a... more free country. But, I must say I'm afraid to go to war again, seeing as we've been spending alot of our resources on war and it's after effects already. Plus, China has an outrageously huge population. Despite the fact that we probably have more money to spend, better technology to use, and better trained soldiers, the quantity still scares me.

I hope we don't goto war with them, especially since they don't seem to want to go to war with us, they just seem to be 'willing' if it were to happen. I doubt they'd attack us unprovoked. If they do, we obviously have to defend ourselves from future attacks.. but if we decide to goto war with them, we've not only got middle-eastern terrorists to worry about, but chinese ones as well. And there are a hell of alot more chinese people then there are middle-eastern.

Maybe everyone in Taiwan should just move to America? lol..

I definately feel sympathy for Taiwan though.. as I watched a thing on the news and they definately are loving their freedom. I'd say we should do something about it.. but if other industrialized countries aren't going to help us with it, it's not as much of an option.

You have a good one too. ^.^

Howdy Encatuse,

You have some good points and I'm glad that you stand for democracy and freedom.

You propose:" Maybe everyone in Taiwan should just move to America? lol.. "

Well..that would possibly avoid nuclear war with China..lol. The Battle of Armageddon..is gittin closer,everyday....

Have a good one....

Torog, though I disagree with most of your opinions, I think you're one of the most respectable people on this forum. No matter how many people lose their cool over some of your statements, you never give them the pleasure of losing it back at them. It's an admirable trait that most people, including myself, don't have.

^.^ I'm gonna goto bed though.. seeing as it's 7 am.. about 9 hours past my bedtime. -laughs-

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Encatuse

Torog, though I disagree with most of your opinions, I think you're one of the most respectable people on this forum. No matter how many people lose their cool over some of your statements, you never give them the pleasure of losing it back at them. It's an admirable trait that most people, including myself, don't have.

^.^ I'm gonna goto bed though.. seeing as it's 7 am.. about 9 hours past my bedtime. -laughs-

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Howdy Encatuse,

Once again,thanx for your kind words..I believe that there ain't no call for emotional,childish temper tantrums or personal insults,when trying to figure out how we feel about things and where we stand on the issues..it all boils down to developing the ability to agree to disagree..without resorting to insults and profanity.

Have a good one...(sweet dreams ! don't let the bed bugs bite !) :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Torog

Howdy Encatuse,

Once again,thanx for your kind words..I believe that there ain't no call for emotional,childish temper tantrums or personal insults,when trying to figure out how we feel about things and where we stand on the issues..it all boils down to developing the ability to agree to disagree..without resorting to insults and profanity.

Have a good one...(sweet dreams ! don't let the bed bugs bite !) :D

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It irks me to say it, but sometimes you're right, though I don't agree with the way you say it... :D

I think uderstanding Chinese history is key to understanding this issue as well. Since China ever came in contact with the west, the chinese have been continuously (there's no toher way to say it) buttfucked by western powers, and now they finally have to opportunity to flex their new-found muscles. IMO, it's a little similar to what the US was doing right after the Civil War, with the Spanish-American War, and the Philippines, and Central America.

Obviously, this is a scary development, and a war with China would certainly spell disaster for the entire world, but regardless of how the Taiwanese feel, the Chinese have always claimed the island as their own, and I think they are hell-bent on demonstrating their power.

I guess dipllomacy would be the answer, and regardless of their decision to fight over Taiwan if necessary, the rest of the world should do its utmost to avoid any kind of armed conflict, covert or overt, because it can escalate very quickly.

You gotta hand it to the Chinese though, they have a hell of sense of timing... Right when anti-war sentiment is at an all-time high, they go and do something like this, knowing that the division which runs across the entire world will only help them in their plans.

It has nothing to do, IMHO, with them being communist. Taiwan is a island which they have claimed for thousands of years, and their relationship has always been strained. It's a shame it had to come to this...

the communist party in charge of china are to stubburn to admitt taiwan is its own nation even though china has had no control over it since 1946. i think all chinas doing now is talk, they want to appear in control to their citizens, i doubt theyd actually invade taiwan cause that would bring the wrath of the u.s on them.

Heh, i just have to laugh at that last statement. The wrath? What wrath? We already overexerted our military in Iraq, so unless we pull out, we'll have nothing to attack anyone with. Besides, China has the largest army in the world... Even if we could go head to head with them, it would probably just be another stalemate like in Vietnam (a considerably weaker country.)

China, now there's a government that's way more fucked up than the Bush administration. War with China, we'd kick their ass, but it would take a while. Don't ever want to see that war at all.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Edgar

Heh, i just have to laugh at that last statement. The wrath? What wrath? We already overexerted our military in Iraq, so unless we pull out, we'll have nothing to attack anyone with. Besides, China has the largest army in the world... Even if we could go head to head with them, it would probably just be another stalemate like in Vietnam (a considerably weaker country.)

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we have a ton of soilders on the korean penninsular and a huge marine base in japan, so logisticlly i think we could do it, and the fact our air force is supperior to theres. vietnam was over 40 years ago, our military technology is far better than it was then. coupled with the fact george bush is a crazy mother-fucker, so if i was china i wouldnt want to piss the u.s off.

"our military technology is far better than it was then" That may be so, but we still use the same basic strategies, and reguardless of how good our Tech. is now we still need the manpower to operate that technology, and we have far less manpower than they do. Plus what do you think they have been doing all these years? They will have better technology also, albeit not as advanced as ours, but still close enough. My point is, China knows we dont want a war with them, just as much as they dont want a war with us, because for both sides it would be a disaster...

Just a point about Vietnam... During and right after the Vietnam war, the Vietnamese army was considered to be one of the largest, strongest and most efficient in the world, after maybe only the US and China, both of whom failed to defeat them. The Vietnam war wasn't only fought against the US, but also France and China, and the Vietnamese beat them all.

THat just goes to show you that motivation and morale are probably the most important factor in battles. They wanted to rules their own country, their own way, and ain't no one was gonna stop 'em...

I dont think the U.S. could do much to china, i read some stuff today..........

"the U.S. has 138,000 soldiers, supplemented by as many as 20,000 mercenaries, in Iraq, this force is not sufficient to defeat the uprising. According to the Associated Press, military officials have recently admitted that the resistance numbers more as high as 20,000 and has enough popular support among the Iraqi people that they cannot be militarily defeated."

" A report issued in January, 2004 by Jeffrey Record, a visiting professor at the Air War College, said the Army is â??near the breaking point.â?�

"Out of 10 Army Divisions, part or all of 9 of them are either deployed in Iraq or Afghanistan. Twenty-one out of 33 regular combat brigades are on active duty in Iraq, Afghanistan, South Korea, or the Balkans. Thatâ??s 63% of the Armyâ??s combat strength. This means the Army is extremely overextended. Military experts agree that in order to maintain long-term mobilizations, an army needs twice as many soldiers at home as deployed. That means the U.S. Army is more than 100,000 soldiers short. The Bush Administration has been trying to fill the gap with Reserve and National Guard troops, but this is a temporary fix at best."

"Enlistment rates not even able to maintain current force levels, much less provide troops for new invasions and occupations. All four services missed their enlistment quotas last year, and enlistments in the Reserves, National Guard, and regular military are at a 30-year low. Many current members of the armed forces plan to get out as soon as their current enlistment ends. According to a poll conducted by the military newspaper Stars & Stripes, 49% of soldiers stationed in Iraq do not plan to re-enlist."


I think the army is way stretched, but maybe i been reading to much liberal lefty pussy ass bullshit.

Maybe they'll do a draft?



Peace