WTF!!!

Hi every one,
Dont know whats goin on this time round and its doin my nut in! So here goes........
plants are 3/4 weeks old from clone.Pre ph`d rockwool cubes
600wtt HPS-18/6.
NFT,and they`ve been in the system 11 or 12 days. The pump is just a light trickle running only when lights on.
Temps are 81 lights on,not too sure lights off temp,but its in family home....
125mm intake and exhaust rvk`s. On constant.Humidity 40%
On the second day of them being in the system I changed the res and put CANNA Aqua vega in at 280 PPM,everything seemed fine for a few days, just the usual bit of shock or so I thought.Then the smaller clone stared to look sick-drooping leaves,small brown spots then yellowing and dieing. Noticed green slime on the top of the cube,assuming it was just algae,I put a bit of card over it to block light.I then done a 48hr flush,just ph`d water. then I took the PPM up to 420 as I thought they may now be hungry...... And now it looks like this one is gonna peg it too. Emptied res today and now doing another flush,dont know else to do really??? So if someone could have an educated guess I`d be well happy,Thanks in advance,RM. Appologies for the bad pics.[attachment=o208912]

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I forgot to mention,a bit of leaf curl is normal in this strain at this age so dont read too much into it. Anything else any body needs to know just ask,it will be met with a swift reply.

Fill out the form. You have a pH problem from the looks of things but have given too little background.

NFT is supposed to run more than just while the llights are on btw. Your root zone should NEVER be allowed to dry out completely.

those plants are in shock

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Originally Posted by stinkyattic

Fill out the form. You have a pH problem from the looks of things but have given too little background.

NFT is supposed to run more than just while the llights are on btw. Your root zone should NEVER be allowed to dry out completely.

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Hi Stinky, I didnt think the roots would of dried out completely in just 6 hours dark, I didnt think they we`re supposed to be soaked 24/7,but your the boss. I tried to remember and cover everything that was on the form,but Im a wake n baker.Is there such a form that I can just answer the questions,as opposed to trying to remember the questions then write then down on a seperate page? Im not backwards in coming forwards,its just Im not great on pc`s.Thanks for the quick response by the way and ill give the form? another go.

Dude. Don't get it twisted; I'm NOT the boss. Those are your plants. NFT needs to be really well aerated, either with stones int eh res or by a waterfall/cascading action somewhere in the system- surface turbulence adds oxygen- and the film should not be too deep either.

Here's the cut n paste of the form... just open up the thread and copy it. Or copy it from here. Or whatev.


E-indoor or outdoor
E-soil, soilless, coco, aero, or hydroponic
E-specific medium
CSL-Soil type/brand
HCL-Hydro/aero/soilless system type
SCL-Anything you have added to the soil
SCLR-Soil or slab runoff pH
E-Water source
E-Source water pH
HRT-Source water EC (if hydro)
E-Age of plant
E-Type of fertilizer
E-Rate of application (if hydro, this is your PPM number, preferably after each component is added)
E-Lighting source and distance from plant
E-Air temperature (both day and night if you are running a dark period)
HD-Reservoir temperature
E-Air % Relative humidity
E-Lighting schedule
E-Type of ventilation your room has
TR-Did you pre-soak your media in pH corrected solution?

Can you also post a pic showing the whole system as it sits in the room?

Damn Girl,thats fast!!!!! I musta just worked it out just as you posted! Thanks for keepin an eye out!

H=Answer if you grow hydro or aero
C=Answer if you grow coco
S=Answer if you grow traditional soil
L=Answer if you grow soilless other than coco (Promix, Hyponex, SunshineMix)
R=Answer if you grow in RockWool
T=Answer if you grow in HydroTon
D=Answer if you run any type of automatic drip system, including into soil or soilless
E= EVERYONE needs to answer lol!


E-indoor or outdoor INDOOR
E-soil, soilless, coco, aero, or hydroponic HYDRO/NFT
E-specific medium ROCKWOOL
CSL-Soil type/brand
HCL-Hydro/aero/soilless system type NFT
SCL-Anything you have added to the soil
SCLR-Soil or slab runoff pH
E-Water source TAP
E-Source water pH 6.9/7.1
HRT-Source water EC (if hydro) 140 or below-thats as low as my truncheon reads!
E-Age of plant 4/5 weeks since taken from the mother
E-Type of fertilizer CANNA AQUA
E-Rate of application (if hydro, this is your PPM number, preferably after each component is added) 1st dose-280ppm then 48hr flush then 420ppm there after(until this morn)
E-Lighting source and distance from plant 1220mm/4ft
E-Air temperature (both day and night if you are running a dark period) 81 lights on,unsure lights off
HD-Reservoir temperature Unknown
E-Air % Relative humidity 40%
E-Lighting schedule 18/6
E-Type of ventilation your room has 125mm intake and exhaust RVK`s
TR-Did you pre-soak your media in pH corrected solution? Yes.

once again,I missed something out,I am running an 6 inch long airstone in my res and suplementing with co2 tablets and liquid oxygen rotating each every 3 days

I have discovered your problem.
You are putting CO2 tablets in your reservoir? Noooooes!!! Carbonic acid FAIL!
Quick quick go check adn adjust your res pH to 5.8 if it isn't there, stop with the CO2 tabs, and also post up the value of the runoff pH coming off your slab before it goes back into the res. Those two numbers- res and runoff- are going to combine to tell you what's up and WHERE the source of the problem is physically located.

Just go do that now! But know this Stinky those tabs are supposed to go in the tank at a quarter a tab every 3 days and they are specific tabs for hydro res` and it says on the pack-that overdose s neither harmful or benificial. BRB!

6.1 at both ends,my res is only 25 litres and my tray sits on that,so theres not a lot of "stray" water if you know what I mean?

NTF should never be turned off for 6 hours, golden rule is no more than 30 minutes or not at all. The look of your plants is consistent with this problem. I hope you took care of this, if not, what is your reasoning for the 6 hours of exposed roots?

HI Allforme,the reason I run 6 hours off is that in previous grows Ive had probs associated with over watering,so I turned it off with lights off with no probs ever before,and it aint never turned out like this before!

NFT and aeroponics need to be left on like she said. WHy co2 in your res. they like o2 in the res.

Its a special type of co2,it bonds with the h2o and delivers co2 that way as opposed to in the air.Trust,this shit works,I and a few others have tried grows with and without this and had much better results with.

When CO2 goes into a solution of H20 (aqueous solution) it goes into an equilibrium that includes the Carbonate ion (CO3) and carbonic acid. Where this equilibrium falls in terms of proportions of each depends on atmospheric pressure, pH, other components of the solution, temperature, and oxygenation.
As a water chemist I can tell you there is no 'special' kind of CO2; as there is no 'special' kind of table salt- different salts look different like their shape or even color, but sodium chloride is the same molecule no matter what the salt shaker it's in looks like. You know what I'm getting at?
You want to add CO2 to a grow, you really need to be adding it to the atmosphere instead, and if you are just after the carbon, add a non-polar form (=simple sugars) to the res instead of something so unusual.

Well impressed Stinky. So your saying stop adding it? Can you take a look at the tablets im on about tho please. No Mercy Supply

could i ask what type of light you are using? clones are pretty resiliant but very delicate at an early age especially if they have small root balls. ive grown thousands of clones over the years and 600w seems a bit overkill for a 3 - 4 week clone IMHO. from my experience its best to use a light with lots of blue and red spectrum for a few weeks to help get the veg going and the root system then once they have got used to the light use something a little stronger. loking at the size of those clones they look far too young for a 600w. im not saying this is your actual problem but it sure maybe a contribution to it. ive also found that rushing clones into strong light before they are ready can effect the final results. hope everything works out for you and best of luck good buddy.

Buy yourself a co2 tank and regulator. You will be very impressed.

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Originally Posted by JeffersonBud

Buy yourself a co2 tank and regulator. You will be very impressed.

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That shit dont come cheap in England Bruv.

A couple hundred pounds is cheap for the results you will get. Welding supply companies, ebay, and many more places have them.

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Originally Posted by JeffersonBud

A couple hundred pounds is cheap for the results you will get. Welding supply companies, ebay, and many more places have them.

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a couple of hundred pounds aint cheap at all unless of course your made of money. im sure it would give good great results on a large crop but bare in mind many peeps on here grow for their own use meaning they wont get their money back and also most like myself only grow small crops. if your growing for profit and you are growing a large crop fair enough but you have to take into account that not all of us are here for profit. btw they didnt make that much of a difference when i tried it, well nothing worth jumping up n' down about.

Eh, for a very small PU operation you can rig up a vinegar + baking soda drip... Check the advanced section looking for CO2 related posts.
I like my tank system but admit that for a space much smaller than my 6x6x6 Borg cube it would be overkill.

I hear you with the problem of overwatering, but truth be told, the theory behind NTF is to maintain that nutrient/h2o contact with the roots at all times. Amazing if you have had success with on/off NTF in the past. Ive never heard of that.

I agree with the previous post about O2 vs. CO2. I oxygenate the roots and give the CO2 to the leaves only when the lights are on. As Im sure you know this, you might have gotten a bit high tech for your poor plants. IMHO I would save the "special" CO2 and just put a couple of small sugar/yeast reactors in with the plants during the light cycle. Someone else said it before, but CO2 is one of the last things to worry about. Get a system down pat, then add CO2. Trying to create "the best system" is what we have all tried to do, but doing it step by step proves to be more fruitful in the end. Keep your variables to a minimum and don't buy "special" CO2 when you're stoned ;)

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Originally Posted by all4me

I hear you with the problem of overwatering, but truth be told, the theory behind NTF is to maintain that nutrient/h2o contact with the roots at all times. Amazing if you have had success with on/off NTF in the past. Ive never heard of that.

I agree with the previous post about O2 vs. CO2. I oxygenate the roots and give the CO2 to the leaves only when the lights are on. As Im sure you know this, you might have gotten a bit high tech for your poor plants. IMHO I would save the "special" CO2 and just put a couple of small sugar/yeast reactors in with the plants during the light cycle. Someone else said it before, but CO2 is one of the last things to worry about. Get a system down pat, then add CO2. Trying to create "the best system" is what we have all tried to do, but doing it step by step proves to be more fruitful in the end. Keep your variables to a minimum and don't buy "special" CO2 when you're stoned ;)

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LOL!,well thats one concept man. Hi all,sorry I aint kept you`s up to date,PC probs!

Well... shes not dead, Ive stopped the co2 and the h2o2 and kept a close eye on the PH and shes still showing slight symptoms. Every time I try to up my ppm, it gets worse,then the ensuing 48 hr flush. This is a strain I am really familiar with so its fair to say I know this plant and how it grows and NEVER before have I had a falling PH ? Could this be due to limescale/salt build up in the tank? The tank and tray has a textured surface to it so I can never get it up to shop fresh finsh when I clean it, heres some pics any way. Peace, RM.[attachment=o211437]

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Well, in my experience you just get some plants that don't want to cooperate for some reason. This young lady looks like she is not enjoying your 600 watts of light due to the fact that she is not willing to become a voracious consumer of nutrients.

You may be on your own here... I know its not usually a good idea, but you might want to think about cutting back on the light a bit. Sounds to me she just isn't hungry enough and the leaf browning might be due to a bit of burning. Not sure though man, you are getting a better look at her. Going 12/12 and backing that bulb to about 3-4 feet might not hurt. Thats my best guess, sometimes "weeds" need to work for their dinner to become a more aggressive growing plant (ie. letting roots go unwatered for 2 days etc.)

Keep me updated

Im probably just gonna play it by ear,Im pretty sure Im not going too far wrong with what Im doing.... As for reducing the light thats not an option as I dont have another,I can however move it up a couple of feet but even then its only a 2m hight tent so I dont have that much to play with. Also my uncle is having a few similar probs with a tent and a 400wtt(same clone source)Im gonna put this down to a shit clone source (clones were weak and starting to flower)and maybe a furry res lol. Will keep you updated dude. RM.