Cali lifts ban on Gay Marriage

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...p/gay_marriage


Judge Says Calif. Can't Ban Gay Marriage

1 hour, 17 minutes ago U.S. National - AP


By LISA LEFF, Associated Press Writer

SAN FRANCISCO - A judge ruled Monday that California's ban on gay marriage is unconstitutional, saying the state could no longer justify limiting marriage to a man and a woman.


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Slideshow: Same-Sex Marriage Issues




In the eagerly awaited opinion likely to be appealed to the state's highest court, San Francisco County Superior Court Judge Richard Kramer said that withholding marriage licenses from gays and lesbians is unconstitutional.


"It appears that no rational purpose exists for limiting marriage in this state to opposite-sex partners," Kramer wrote.


The judge wrote that the state's historical definition of marriage, by itself, cannot justify the denial of equal protection for gays and lesbians.


"The state's protracted denial of equal protection cannot be justified simply because such constitutional violation has become traditional," Kramer wrote.


Kramer ruled in lawsuits brought by the city of San Francisco and a dozen same-sex couples last March. The suits were brought after the California Supreme Court halted a four-week marriage spree that Mayor Gavin Newsom had initiated in February 2004 when he directed city officials to issue marriage licenses to gays and lesbians in defiance of state law.


The plaintiffs said withholding marriage licenses from gays and lesbians trespasses on the civil rights all citizens are guaranteed under the California Constitution.


Two legal groups representing religious conservatives joined with California Attorney General Bill Lockyer in defending the existing laws and had vowed to appeal if Kramer did not rule in their favor.


Lockyer's office has said it expects the matter eventually will have to be settled by the California Supreme Court.


A pair of bills pending before the California Legislature would put a constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriage on the November ballot. If California voters approve such an amendment, as those in 13 other states did last year, that would put the issue out of the control of lawmakers and the courts.

One step closer to widespread tolerance. Excellent.

Cool, more freedom means a better America. :)

It'll get worse before it gets better.








But it will get better. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sawleaf

Cool, more freedom means a better America. :)

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Howdy sawleaf,

Even if it means the destruction of the traditional family ? The continued sexualization of our children-in the name of tolerance ?

Marriage,has always been meant for heterosexuals to join together, legally and morally,in order to produce a family and sustain the healthy developement of society. I would compromise with civil unions and partner benefits..even though,as a Christian-I should not be approving of that which God,considers a sin.

Islam,considers homosexuality,a sin and it's a capitol offense,in countries like Saudi..why is it-that the enemies of Christianity,not also condemn Islam ? I believe it's because they approve of the fact-that we are at war,with Islam and Islam,is attacking their object of revulsion and hatred,America.

It'a blatant,double-standard.

My fellow roughnecks and I,encountered a gay Saudi..we could have turned him in,because he was flirting with one of our guys,but we knew that to do so,would mean his death..beheading,most likely. We had no other choice,but to send home,the feller that was gittin picked on-because we suspected,that some kind of false charges,would be brought against us and our contracts terminated prematurely.

Have a good one....

Poor Torog, he's such a victim.

Torog, you know I'm a Christian also, but I am not one to force my beliefs on anyone. This is America, supposedly the "Land of the Free". How free is it if two people in love can't get married? Look to the middle east! That's what happens when religion rules a country! I don't believe any country should have laws based on religion. Religion in government will just restrict and seperate.

marriage shouldn't have anything to do with government anyway...

why do we accept government saying what we are allowed and not allowed to do, out of their bounds, as normal, especially the feds.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sawleaf

Torog, you know I'm a Christian also, but I am not one to force my beliefs on anyone. This is America, supposedly the "Land of the Free". How free is it if two people in love can't get married? Look to the middle east! That's what happens when religion rules a country! I don't believe any country should have laws based on religion. Religion in government will just restrict and seperate.

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Howdy sawleaf,

You make some good points,I am having a bit of a struggle,I don't like the idea of forcing anyone to believe a certain way..or legislating behaviour..I want to live and let live,I want folks to be happy..but I also believe,that children should be encouraged to marry and have family's when they grow up..the traditional family,is vital for the health of any society. What could be the long-term effects of gay marriage,on society and population growth ? That is one of the things I worry about,as a parent and Christian. I wish that Jesus would come down from Heaven-and settle this issue..but it appears..that it is our lesson to learn and discover the solution to. If I am to love my neighbor..then that includes gay folks too..it's all very confusing.

Have a good one...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Torog

Howdy sawleaf,

You make some good points,I am having a bit of a struggle,I don't like the idea of forcing anyone to believe a certain way..or legislating behaviour..I want to live and let live,I want folks to be happy..but I also believe,that children should be encouraged to marry and have family's when they grow up..the traditional family,is vital for the health of any society. What could be the long-term effects of gay marriage,on society and population growth ? That is one of the things I worry about,as a parent and Christian. I wish that Jesus would come down from Heaven-and settle this issue..but it appears..that it is our lesson to learn and discover the solution to. If I am to love my neighbor..then that includes gay folks too..it's all very confusing.

Have a good one...

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I see the struggle... Actually, Torog, the confusion you just described is what causes a lot people to abandon religion altogether... Think about it too much, it doesn't make sense anymore.

The only thing about gay marriage that bothers me is that a lot of them want to get married in a church. If the church does not want to perform the ceremony, there's no way in hell a government should force them to. However, if gays want to get married in city hall or something like that, then it's all cool with me.

I say, just respect the wishes of the Church, a private organization which has nothing to do with government. We can't force religion to change its mind, or we'll be sinking to their level :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Torog

Howdy sawleaf,

You make some good points,I am having a bit of a struggle,I don't like the idea of forcing anyone to believe a certain way..or legislating behaviour..I want to live and let live,I want folks to be happy..but I also believe,that children should be encouraged to marry and have family's when they grow up..the traditional family,is vital for the health of any society. What could be the long-term effects of gay marriage,on society and population growth ? That is one of the things I worry about,as a parent and Christian. I wish that Jesus would come down from Heaven-and settle this issue..but it appears..that it is our lesson to learn and discover the solution to. If I am to love my neighbor..then that includes gay folks too..it's all very confusing.

Have a good one...

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Yeah I understand that also Torog. But what if you had a gay child, wouldn't you want them to be happy also. I am not promoting homosexuality at all, but there is something greater here. This is about allowing people to live happily. Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness, does this only apply to a selected people? It is a tough issue, but I am willing to put aside my personal opinions to allow folks to be happy in life. :)

"What could be the long-term effects of gay marriage,on society and population growth ?"

HMMM mabey less population growth????? SO WHAT? The human race is rapidly approaching critical mass. The world is over populated, so anything that would slow its BREEDING FRENZY is fine by me.
We are running out of resources, and more people just means less resources per person.

For those opposed to Homosexuality as a "population boom decreaser" remember one thing. In nature among ALL species (this includes you too story telling apes aka Humans) Homosexuality is a biological response to overpopulation. Just thought id throw that in the ring. Its a natural process and a good one at that, its very effective. As to the traditional family . There is zero empirical evidence showing "gay couples" who say artificially inseminate or adopt and raise children who are confused , or disruptive, disturbed (insert your favourite "bad family cliche here") happens. In fact they have the exact same success rate with a "healthy adjusted (as "normal" as that is....) child" being the product as any traditional family has.

Now for a funny remark from a comedian "im sick of all this opposition to gay marriage, they have the same right to be miserable as the rest of us". Don't forget Torog Divorce is against the church too ;) and over 50% of marriages end in divorce. That violates the bible too remember :).

Suffice to say I agree with Sawleaf you can't force your view into law or legislate anyone elses freedom's based on your personal belief system. However I also agree with Flesh that no church on earth should be forced to marry Homosexuals if they are opposed to it as he said it would be lowering ourselves to the same level. (exclusionary level).

No one has in this thread but please don't ever think of homosexuality as "unnatural" as by definition it is very natural. However this does not mean you "have" to agree with it, just please don't say it out loud as (*you do have free speech not stepping on that*) but it will decrease your credibility. And, too be honest I find male on male repulsive (everytime a friend of mine kisses his boyfriend I try not too but I do cringe and get a "bad shiver" but thats just me , im not going to ask him to stop on my account and as he's a close friend, I'd never say anything to him I tell him im very happy for him which I am...) NOW girl on girl ! yeah baby (said with a bad austin powers like accent).....See biased.....By the gods im horrible sometimes...It's all a matter of taste where consenting "ADULTS" are concerned.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by F L E S H

I see the struggle... Actually, Torog, the confusion you just described is what causes a lot people to abandon religion altogether... Think about it too much, it doesn't make sense anymore.

The only thing about gay marriage that bothers me is that a lot of them want to get married in a church. If the church does not want to perform the ceremony, there's no way in hell a government should force them to. However, if gays want to get married in city hall or something like that, then it's all cool with me.

I say, just respect the wishes of the Church, a private organization which has nothing to do with government. We can't force religion to change its mind, or we'll be sinking to their level :)

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Howdy FLESH,

Well daggumit..I don't see anything in your post-to disagree with..uh oh..lol..as long as gays don't demand that their marriage be blessed by God-when clearly,God is against such unions..I could live with that..I think.

Have a good one...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sawleaf

Yeah I understand that also Torog. But what if you had a gay child, wouldn't you want them to be happy also. I am not promoting homosexuality at all, but there is something greater here. This is about allowing people to live happily. Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness, does this only apply to a selected people? It is a tough issue, but I am willing to put aside my personal opinions to allow folks to be happy in life. :)

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Howdy sawleaf,

You ask:"But what if you had a gay child, wouldn't you want them to be happy also..."

Yup..I would..I was worried,for a long time,after my daughter was molested by a bi-sexual pedophile,whether she would remain heterosexual or not..thankfully,she wasn't affected that way.

Life,Liberty and the pursuit of happiness, should apply to all folks..which is why I told my girlfriend the other day,that I wasn't going to say anything bad about my dealer,who's a lesbian with a bisexual girlfriend..I told her,that they deserved happiness too..and if there's any judging to be done-that I'll leave it to God.

You see-I'm making progress ! Dang it-y'all are gittin to me...lol.

Have a good one...:)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nick1990

so how often do you have conversations with god? you kno the ones where he tells you that he is against same-sex marriage? just wondering.

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Howdy Nick,

I pray to God..everyday..but He doesn't talk back..yet:eek:

I don't know how anyone can claim that they actually talked with God..if He were to speak-our eardrums would burst..and we would go blind-if we were to behold His Glory.

Wasn't Sodom and Gommorah,proof enough, of how God feels about homosexuality and deviant sex ?

Have a good one...

Hi Torog
How ya been? hope everything is going well with you and yours.
I noticed you were asked if ya spoke to god. well you may not believe this but i have. When the drs were putting my heart back in and trying to restart it, it took 10 minutes to get ti going and i was dead for those 10 minutes . i saw and talked to god and god is a woman. sometime i'll tell ya about it. have a great day
peace
heart

Well, as the daughter of a man who hid his bi-sexuality his whole life, I am so glad that homosexuals have the chance to marry in Cali. Hiding bisexuality or homsexuality leads to secrets and lies, in the long run, it hurts everyone.

Saying that homosexuals are perverted child molesters is as absurd as saying that all straight men rape women.

Homosexuals ruin the family structure?!! My father lived his life as a straight man and he suffered from boughts of alcoholism and a gambling addiction all stemming from his big "secret". My parents marriage was absolutely miserable. My father has passed, but the hurt that the "secret" caused has turned my mother into a bitter, fat, man-hater.

Btw, my gay dad was an MP in the Marines during the Korean War (he was also awarded a Purple Heart). I hope none of his brave efforts were wasted helping to save the lives of any of his fellow Marines on this board who are homophobes.

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Originally Posted by heartsurgerysurviver

Hi Torog
How ya been? hope everything is going well with you and yours.
I noticed you were asked if ya spoke to god. well you may not believe this but i have. When the drs were putting my heart back in and trying to restart it, it took 10 minutes to get ti going and i was dead for those 10 minutes . i saw and talked to god and god is a woman. sometime i'll tell ya about it. have a great day
peace
heart

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That sounds like a very strange experience. I don't really think god is a man or a woman. But maybe that's how the Lord presented itself to you. :)

You are so right Maryjane - Secrets & Lies destroy and shatter families.

Everyone has the right to be happy and live openly and honestly without fear of hatred and recrimination, remember no victim no crime. Bring on the Love - everything else is a bag of shite.

ok lets pretend there is a god. first of all no hes not human. saying our ear drums would burst and that other nonsense is as stupid as saying jacking off makes you go lind. you dont fuckingknow that. no one does. its just a myth. just like a bunch of things in the biible. its funny to see all these things diff cultures have added based on their senese of morality, and it grows from there. CAN YOU NOT SEE IT?????

Quote:

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Originally Posted by heartsurgerysurviver

Hi Torog
How ya been? hope everything is going well with you and yours.
I noticed you were asked if ya spoke to god. well you may not believe this but i have. When the drs were putting my heart back in and trying to restart it, it took 10 minutes to get ti going and i was dead for those 10 minutes . i saw and talked to god and god is a woman. sometime i'll tell ya about it. have a great day
peace
heart

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Ahh the wonders of anesthetics.

i could care less if gays get married.they dont bother me.but just like the first time it will end because the majority dont like it