Are there any ways to induce or help rooting in a dwc? Net pot is 8 in. medium is rockwool in hydroton. Water level is right under the net pot and the aeration is sufficient and running 24/7. Any ideas???
:hippy:
Printable View
Are there any ways to induce or help rooting in a dwc? Net pot is 8 in. medium is rockwool in hydroton. Water level is right under the net pot and the aeration is sufficient and running 24/7. Any ideas???
:hippy:
same thing is happening to me actually
i had the water where you have it and i lowered it a bit in hopes the roots will go searching, but still nothing
the plant has been growing well for about 2 weeks now but still no sign of roots....i suppose until my plant stops growing it isnt really a problem
Anyone? Could be my ridiculous impatience, but I am at the same place also...almost 3 weeks into growth and no roots for my super mix of nutes :mad:
Could heating the water until the roots start reaching help? (root streches for the warmth??)
OK, I will try to decifer. Number one, you mentioned, you're using rockwool and hydroton. Those are two COMPLETELY different mediums. Try this, fill a 6" net pot full of rockwool, and fill another net pot the same size with hydroton. Lets just suppose you have a young plant in each one. Now pour a quart of water over each pot and wait and see what happens. Within 24 HOURS your plant depending on its size will be dead. The plant in rockwool will still be alive 10 or 12 DAYS. This shows the ability of rockwool to hold water is much different than the clay pellets.
I can tell you that a clone rooted in a VERY SMALL cube of rockwool placed in a netpot filled with hydroton, will not thrive as well as a clone placed in hydroton without the rockwool. Why? Using the watering schedule for watering hydroton, or DWC, the cube will never get enough oxygen simply because its getting too much water. I occasionally root clones in rockwool cubes but use mainly an aero cloner. I try to remove as much (sometimes all) of the rockwool before placing the girl into the net pot with hydroton. If I leave the rockwool on the plant and place it into the net pot with hydroton, the roots will not thrive within the area until it develops roots above or below the rockwool cube.
Hope this helps
sn
Hand feed them through the top of the pots until a nice handful fall through and watch them take off!
And roots = only cold water :stoned:
Ok, i have the rockwool in an 8 inch net pot the rockwool is like 5 inch cubes...the rest of the pot that is not rockwool is hydroton...so i should water where the hydroton is? :(
That's your problem. Cubes, ESPECIALLY Large cubes like yours are not meant to be in a DWC, you will drown your plants, or at the very least they cannot thrive. When there is that much rockwool it will never get a chance to dry so that your plant gets oxygen.Quote:
Originally Posted by paperchaser825
You will either have to either reduce or eliminate the rockwool from the plant, or set your plants on a tray the way they are, and feed them water/nutes by hand. I would not water them more than once a day or even every other day.
sn
Cold water no, tepid water yes, cold water will be a shock to the roots.Quote:
Originally Posted by Booyagrandma
Water temp should be around 23'C
Well, i wouldn't say that Rockwool and DWC aren't compatible.
What i would suggest is this, Veg your plants as long as you see fit in your rockwool cubes, just make sure roots are sufficiently coming out the bottom of the cube (more than one tiny root poking through).
Put a thin layer of hydroton across the bottom of your netpot (like 1 rock high...) then set your rockwool cube with roots coming out of the bottom on top of that thin layer of rocks. gently fill the rest of the net pot with hydroton until it's full to your liking. Then place the netpot into your res/solution/5 gal bucket...whatever you are using...keep the water level just high enough to touch the thin layer of rocks...maybe touching the bottom of the rockwool. As long as you have sufficient aeration the roots will explode. After about 3 days you should notice some roots poking down through the bottom of the net pot. Once that happens simply drain just enough water so the roots are in the solution but the bottom of the net pot is above the water. That way the roots will continue to grow into the solution and the rockwool won't be soaking.
dunno if that's the best way...but i've been doing it over and over now with great results.
best of luck
Skeet
PS - Also...make sure your res is LIGHT PROOF and water temp is cool. I wrap my 5 gallon buckets with black plastic. Others use duct tape or black spray paint.
SpaceNeedle, please get your facts right before you post.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpaceNeedle
#1 - Rockwool and hydrotron work fine together. A lot of growers use them that way - a smallish RW cube to start with, and then set that in a net pot full of hydrotron.
#2 - Rockwool and DWC systems work fine together too. Again, a lot of growers have done that.
#3 - In a DWC your grow medium does NOT need to dry out and your plants won't drown. Think about it - in a DWC system your plants sit in a big bucket of water. Oxygen is added directly to your nutrient solution by the air stones that should be running constantly. Additional oxygen from the air is not necessary.
To OP: It's normal for it to take a bit for your roots to reach the water line, and it's also normal for growth to be a tad slow until that happens. You may want/need to hand water (use the water out of the reservoir if you can) a few times a day to keep your plants happy and speed things up a bit until then. Otherwise, as long as your plants are healthy, just be patient. You could also set up some sort of drip line that feeds out of the res, if you want.
If paperchaser gets his DWC going, and he has a plant sitting in a net pot with a 5" rockwell cube sitting in some clay pellets, and if there are none or very few roots coming out of that 5" cube, he runs the water level in the bucket right up to the bottom of that rockwell cube, there is no way that plant is going to thrive.
There's this little thing called capillary action - aka wicking - that comes into play, especially with rockwool. If the bottom of the cube is touching the water it will wick the water upwards to the plants roots.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpaceNeedle
PRECISELY!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Help_Needed
The cube will never get a chance to dry out, and the plant will develop root rot!
Let me repeat myself....the cube is NOT SUPPOSED TO DRY OUT!!! It doesn't need to - not in a DWC, anyway. Air is circulated through the reservoir with one or more air stones, disolving oxygen into the nutrient solution. The plants get all the oxygen then need from the solution.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpaceNeedle
And being wet isn't what causes root rot in a DWC system either. Usually root rot in a DWC is caused by res temps that are too warm; insufficient air flow into the res; or roots that grow too thick and restrict water circulation. Failure to completely clean your system between grows can also cause root rot as well as other diseases. But not letting your rockwool dry won't do it.
Well, maybe I used the wrong term, 'dry out'. I didn't mean to turn it completely dry. If a plant is in a 5" cube with very little or no roots coming out yet and is constantly sitting in a bucket or a tray with the bottom inch of the cube emersed it cannot thrive whether there are clay pellets around it or not. The constant water will prevent oxygen from reaching the plant.Quote:
Originally Posted by Help_Needed
Dude, you're still not getting it. In a DWC system, the oxygen is IN THE WATER. The water carries the oxygen to the plants. That's why you use the air stones, to create a high level of dissolved oxygen IN the water. Root contact with the air is completely unnecessary in a DWC environment. The entire root system of the plant can be completely submerged throughout the entire grow with no ill effects as long as you're pumping enough air into your reservoir.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpaceNeedle
prop-o-gator root stimulant works great
NO, you don't get it. I'm not arguing that oxygen is carried thru the water in a DWC system. I've run DWC for several years. I am saying the plant will suffer when placed in a 5" square when first placed in a DWC system. By that I mean a young plant with little or no roots coming out of the bottom, and then being partially immersed in the water. The water (or nutes) will be sucked up by the cube, not enough of the oxygen. I have done experiments of taking two plants put in DWC. The first in a 6" pot with all rockwool, and the second one just filled with clay pellets only. They were grown side by side. The one with the rockwool did not do very well at all. The one in hydroton thrived. I had 4" net pots on a flood and drain system using hydroton as a media, and discovered the plants that were rooted in rockwool did not do as well as those that had no rockwool because they were rooted in an aero cloner. This was simply because the water schedule was once every 4 hours which was too much for those that had an inch of rockwool around them. A small cube would probably be ok in a DWC, although it is NOT helping the plant any in its younger days. After a while I've found the roots just develop above the cube and then thrive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Help_Needed
The placement of a plant into flowering is pretty stressful the first few days. That's why we keep the light further away the first day or two. If you want to give your plant a good start, don't put a small plant in a 5" cube in a DWC and expect it to thrive.
Hey space or "help needed", or any1 following this rockwool/hydroton debate, i have a question! from what i understand, going straight hydroton > rockwool/hydroton combo, BUT, for those of us who feel compelled to combine them, would you suggest CHOPPING the bottom portion of the rockwool cube right off AFTER the seed has germinated? I've got 2 babies who cracked this morning, and I want maximum flow of oxygen to the roots, and i feel as though the rockwool will indeed mitigate the flow of oxygen to the roots, especially in the plant's early stages of growth. if i could just transform the rockwool cube into a rockwool 'plate' of sorts, problem solved, no? Thank you!
I think instead of chopping the RW plug, it's much better simply to place it in the HT in such a way that it does not get wet from the system, and therefore avoids the stem rot pitfall. RW starter plugs should be hand-watered for seedlings and young clones, so that they don't get waterlogged.
Good freakin lord, folks- just think it thru...
Place rw cube on top of hydroton.
Hand water rw cube. Water will pass thru cube, cascade over hydroton.
Roots will grow out of bottom of cube.
Roots will grow thru hydroton.
Roots will emerge from bottom of net cup.
Roots will grow down into solution.
You will need to hand water the rw cube about once a day for about a week.
Not rocket science.
Don't overthink.
rw sitting on top of hydroton will not hold water for as long as rw sitting on a dinner plate. Rw on top of hydroton ( or otherwise able to drain properly) is actually kind of tough to overwater- excess runs out the bottom, if there's a place for it to go.
You're right Rhizome, this conversation's getting kinda silly. I'm quite finished now ;) :jointsmile:Quote:
Originally Posted by rhizome
:S2: gotta good laugh outta this one... Ive grown in rockwool and hydroton in the same net pots. like said earlier hand water untill the roots pop out of the pots then your in bussiness
OK! WTF????????
I still have 2 plants that have no tap roots showing no side rooting no f'n nothin!
Now i have 1 plant that has a tap root coming out of the hydroton, but it's growth is less than that of the plants with no roots!!!
Someone help please!!!
If you only have 2 plants... do as suggested, just hand water once a day until you've got roots coming thru. Man, you should have roots by now... unless you've been leaving the rockwell cubes so wet, that your plants are drowning... what EC/PPM are you feeding them?
If your plants still aren't growing, something else is wrong. Go to the top of the Plant Problems forum and fill out the trouble shooting guide and post it in the Plant Problems forum instead of the hydro forum. You'll get more visibility that way, and you'll get answers from people who actually know what they're doing.
what i've noticed is that the LIQUID KARMA that I use covers the roots you currently have in a black ... stuff and as soon as that happens, the roots just shoot out in every direction and plant growth follows suit:thumbsup:
i use rockusing canna rizotonic or reganaroot.these products are gold to make good root structure.try these and see lots of white root.even use rizotonic as foliar spray on cuttings.for real mate you try and see.if using areoponic propagater only use for 15mins per day using tank heater or heat mat to sit tank on.if this helps you let us no.peace gman corby town....uk!!!!!