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This is the perfect time for Ron Paul to get as much air time as possible over the next 4 years.
He needs to start his campaign today and keep it going until 2012. I have no doubt in my mind that if we saw Ron Paul as a regular fixture on TV he would become a household name brand of logic and reason.
I know many people in here think he's a loon; but I feel his domestic policy trumps anything out there at the moment. His foreign policy may need some help; but at least he's been on the international relations committee for a few years. So he does have SOME experience in that arena under his belt, unlike some other candidates whom I'll leave unmentioned ;)
Ron Paul for President 2012!!
Finally you say something that I can agree with you aboutQuote:
Originally Posted by daihashi
I think if you actually read what I said and took it to heart instead of offense you would agree with much of what I say.Quote:
Originally Posted by Markass
I believe in:
- Less government and less taxation across the board
- Less programs to support people and more programs to help people be able to support themselves.
- Reforming of Social Security to rid it of it's retirement portion and use those funds in the medicaid/medicare portion of SS. To make a true health program for those who cannot afford it. SS retirement is way in debt anyway.
- That we should maintain a strong military power in order to be able to work through diplomacy from a strong point. (No one takes a weak country seriously).
- Equal rights and equal opportunity as long as it does not become counter productive (ie: reverse racism or trampling over our constitution).
- That politicians in Senate should be limited to 2 or 3 terms. However they can hold different offices for all I care throughout their career (mayor, govenor, state senate.. etc etc).
The list goes on and on. I believe in alot of things that I am sure a number of members here would agree with me on if they would actually listen to me as a person and not someone who they believe to be coming from the right. Which is very frustrating to me because people get up in arms upset when I say something that aligns with my beliefs, not realizing I am not saying it to spite them or because I am a "right winger" like they would want to label me, but really because less government is better for our country.
The reason why we're in this mess now is because the government is too big. This whole mess with freddie and fannie and AIG would not effect us so harshly if the government hadn't grown so big and intertwined itself with these private entities and GSE's.
Really if you want to label me I guess I would be a republican who is true to the republican Philosophy, but because we have a bunch of asshats in the republican party these days... I guess I'm more of a libertarian than a republican; if you go by what you see an not by philosophy.
:hippy:
wow its too bad most Americans dont know how badly there fucked....Your country is 9trillion in debt you have to borrow money from china and japan to fund your wars.your country is basicly bankcrupt and you guys want to pay less taxes lol yeah like thats going to happen.....your leaders have sold you down the river and dont have a clue of what to do.
What we should be doing is starting a write in campaign to get him elected NOW in 2008! It could be the first write in victory ever. Well it's nice to dream about it anyway. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by daihashi
Blessed be~
I was wondering where you were. I hadn't heard any condescending remarks about my country or it's state of affairs from you in a while :hippy:Quote:
Originally Posted by fishman3811
He has a valid point.Quote:
Originally Posted by daihashi
Our country teetering on the edge of chaos. Between war, waning popularity as a superpower, a military that is a shell of its former self, corrupt politicians, a failing government, ridiculous deficit and debt, and a financial collapse (that last one's the proverbial kitchen sink), we are completely fucked.
What we need now is either a full-blown revolution (could be effective, but messy and could just as easily make our situation much worse) or a handful of strong leaders who know how to get us out of this mess from within the system.
Daihashi why all the hate brother,im just pointing out the facts but dont worry about it just keep your head in the sand and pray to whatever god u pray to...But im sure the elite dont have to worry about it with all the money they have stolen from the American public they will be just fine i imagine...You guys can just keep watching American idol and hope for the best......
has any1 here ever heard of the game Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon ?Quote:
Originally Posted by JakeMartinez
thats a simulation of head of states job in a world war...
i strongly suggest whoever that does not know how things work in reality to check it out... very sophisticated game and without action.... more like chess, but it opens your eyes a lil bit
check the description and u get what i mean Hearts of Iron II - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Again with remarks that could be done without. Pointing out facts is one thing, pointing out facts with the intention of being arrogant is another. If it wasn't a recurring theme with you I wouldn't have bothered even replying but it's slightly annoying that you seem to get your jollies by being this type of person.Quote:
Originally Posted by fishman3811
Keep it up :thumbsup:
Actually you might want to get your facts straight Fishman. The US governmental debt as a percentage of GDP is much lower than that of post WW2 America.Quote:
Originally Posted by fishman3811
All countries have a national debt, that was fiat, central banks, as well as fractional reserve banking allows.
It is true its getting out of hand, but its been alot worse.
To help Dr. Paul get more attention from the media join the Campaign for Liberty!
Ron Paul�??s Campaign For Liberty | The Revolution Continues
:hippy:
I've made this same point in the past. Fact is Fishman, if the U.S. economy goes down, other countries will be falling quickly behind. We ARE the #1 consumer; take away our buying power and these others you've mentioned are stuck with warehouses full of crap...including your own.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenBoy812
Have a good one!:s4:
Goldenboy thanks for the info.....Yes every country has debt except China which has 1trillion surplus...But you guys have to pay it down for the good of your country and it doesnt help when your government is bailing out every banker in town,...Daihashi you think im the arrogant one im not the one who thinks i own the rest of the planet maybe you should look at your fellow country men and see who is the arrogant one.....
You just categorized an entire nation of people... and you claim to not be arrogant, condescending or anything else? Then again I guess if someone were arrogant they wouldn't admit to it. They would think to highly of themselves, when they really shouldn't, to see it :hippy:Quote:
Originally Posted by fishman3811
Here is some information for you....
How much is our debt now? Probably about 8 trillion... what is our population? about 300 million.
That puts our debt at about $28k per person (man, woman and child).
Canada has a national debt of $600-700 billion USD. Your population is about 33-35 million?
That puts YOUR debt at about.. estimated.. $21k per person.
Please stop acting like you are so much better than us. You are not that far off yourself. I am aware of your own economic woes, including unemployment rate that is near double digits in some provinces and a national average of 6.1%. You would think with a smaller populace Canada would have their affairs in order. :hippy:
Here's some more information about the US and Canada.
The united states in 2007 had a median income of $49k USD
Canada in 2005 had a median income of $58k USD
Sounds pretty good for canada right?
Well for the median amount listed an income earner can expect to pay about 22% of tax to Canada. Doesn't seem to bad, but then there's the provicial/territorial tax which hovers between 8-11%, so most people in canada can expect to pay about 30-33% tax (I found figures from canada government sites that said average tax paid is about 35%, but we'll stick with my lower number). This does not include sales tax, the excise taxes canada has that we don't and some of which we do (ie gas and tobacco etc etc). I believe in Ontario, and I could be wrong on this, that you have to pay extra for prescription and health insurance. I don't know exactly what that covers but I know it's an extra tax that you guys have.
On the contrary In the United States the average federal income tax paid on the median income listed above is about 20% (I am putting that on the high side.). We do have states that have a state income tax as well... these range from 3%-5%.. putting the total for the median income at about 25%. (which it should be noted that the canadian Median Income would also fit inside this US tax bracket).
So when comparing debt per person to income tax and income.. it would appear to me that the United States is in a better situation to handle the debt than Canada even if we do have a SLIGHTLY higher debt per person rate.
And I didn't find any concrete information for the Canadian Median pay. It could be less for all I know, I just pulled the information from a non government website for that.
edit: it should be noted that you have to use Median income and not average. If you average in the rich then it really skews what the average American makes. It should also be noted that my Medians were for single individuals.
I'm sorry.. I made an error..
Single individuals in canada average $17k or so
The Daily, Thursday, March 30, 2006. Income of Canadians
Families with 2 or more individuals made 55-58k.
If you can find some better data please post it. I'm having a difficult time finding really solid concrete information for Single Canadians income.
Here's another article that states 25-26k as of 2005
Canadian Personal Finance Blog » Blog Archive » Who Lives On The Median Income?
It's worth mentioning that the tax rate for a person making about 30k changes to about
7-9%.. I'm not sure if territoral taxes are fixed or progressive, but for arguments sake let's say it's reduced to 4-5% for these individuals.. bringing the total to 11-14% tax on 26k
That's 21k debt for a large demographic whose median income barely goes over that before taxes.. and after taxes that income drops.
Shrug... call my country crap if you will; but remember when you point fingers you have 3 more pointed right back at you.
We agree on our view of Fishman, Dai.
Posts like Fish's singlehandedly are the reason I gave shit in the other thread about people getting involved in other's politics. He has nothing to say except trying to make America look bad. I knew there was a reason I fucking HATED Canadians.....all talk until shit hits the fan like back in WW2. God knows they never would have made it over the seawall at Juno beach if the Germans actually took them seriously.....
To quote one of the best movies ever created:
"Ahem............Fuck Canada."
U.S. Ambassador to the U.N., South Park: Bigger, Longer, and Uncut.
you and I agree on more and more lately.. what the hell is the world coming to? ROFL j/k..Quote:
Originally Posted by DaBudhaStank
I know we are in a bad state, but there's a difference between what he did and simply pointing out the facts (which you know obviously since we're both in agreement).
The sad thing is he's going to take my efforts I put forth in my last 3-4 posts and just slam America with another one of his 1-2 line responses.
I'm done replying to him unless he has something to actually contribute to this thread. I've done my job as far as I'm concerned. On the other hand I won't slam Canada. I won't blame an entire nation of people due to a stereotype that may not be true or because of the government that resides over them.
I have a few Canadian friends that I visit a few times a year. I know they are not like Fishman there and that he is in the minority in his attitude towards his neighbors to the south. It's just unfortunate that he, 1 single person, can ruin the perception we have of a nations people with just a few remarks.
to each his own.. like I said it's sad to see that this is how he get's his jollies. :hippy:
In terms of worker productivity, we are no.1 with high population nations, and no.6 in the entire world which includes Luxembourg, Norway etc...
Click Here
Scroll down to page 16 for some interesting info.
So basically when we're looking at take home income, tax rate, debt per person (or rather the detrimental effect of debt per person in the US vs Canada), and now productivity and GDP... it stands to reason that Canada is actually worse off than the US in many ways. When you actually look at the numbers down on paper that is. Which really is undeniable fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenBoy812
Thanks for contributing to setting the record straight :thumbsup:
Very interesting :thumbsup:
When it comes to a nations economy, worker productivity, much more importantly their efficiency is the most determining factor when you take into consideration standard of living.
Nation & World | We work hard: U.S. at the top in productivity | Seattle Times Newspaper
We are also no.1 in total worker output. Luxembourg is not mentioned because their entire GDP was insufficient to be ranked against countries with 8 & 9 figure populations.
Daihashi well thanks for the info but our national debt is more like 420-450 billion our country has been slowly paying off our debt every year since our government cant run deficits anymore.A new law thats been in the books for years now...So how much of your income goes to health premiums that you forgot to add to your equation??Yes we are taxed high here but at least i wont go bankrupt when a medical emergency happens.How much do u pay for prescripition drugs since soo many Americans are buying drugs from Canada at half the price...Look everyone is proud of there country and im sorry if i seem arrogant i deeply apologize i actually think America is a wonderfull country a little screwed up but soo are many other countries wouldnt you agree?Here is a fact for you i pay 10 bucks for a pack of smokes most of it taxes,i also pay 40 bucks for a 24 of beer so we dont have it soo good up here,but i still love this country as much as you love America....Anyway im through fighting with you and lets make amends....peace
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishman3811
Man thats a lot for beer! Im glad i have good health insurance. Canada makes a lot of our stuff, dont you guys just love NAFTA up there anyway?? I heard the conservatives are trying to change things but the MMJ laws in Canada are great, ++ you have a few quality Mail order options I hear. Keep Tokin up north! :jointsmile:
Free healthcare; fact is, everything comes at a price and nothing is for free. I don't drink much beer but I do smoke...why should I have to pay a jacked up price for somebody else?Quote:
Originally Posted by fishman3811
Have a good one!:s4:
I think Canada holds 1 major and undisputable advantage that we ought to admit: "Nationwide" MMJ laws.
and 40 bucks for a 24 pack is just ridiculous!!!
and i doubt any country has something called the "perfect" healthcare system... each one has its disadvantages and people of that land are the ones who ought to prefer the trade off for the advantages.
People in America don't like taxes, especially if it's a tax thats going to a social program. this is a fact many don't understand, but it's the reality that majority of Americans don't like this principle of socialist programs
but in reality it's hard to say we are not doing that in part at least. there are some major social programs that face lots of criticisms from citizens, nevertheless continue to exist and even expand.
the fact is, a completely & purely capitalistic economy and government is very very hard to achieve in practice in this day and time. it takes time, education and lots of reform for such a thing to replace our current system.
Flyingiman i never realised that you guys were soo against social programs.Yes we pay through the teeth for such things as i mentioned earlier.Does it make me happy hell no but we all have to deal with it up here in Canada...PSYCHO your right its alot of cash for cigs but we have a thriving black market up here for cigs,we get native cigs made by the Native Canadians on the reserves and i pay 35 bucks for a carton if i were to buy a carton of cigs at the store im looking at 90 bucks so suffice it to say the government is always raiding these guys who sell native smokes and its really a thriving buisness up here...But fuck the government
I'm not against all of them personally, there are useful social programs and there are bs ones. it all depends on how it is designed and worked out.Quote:
Originally Posted by fishman3811
Social Security is a social program for god's sake!
what I meant was there is a negative stigma associated with the words "social program" that has ties to communism in most of Americans' minds. I could be wrong tho
and remember I'm no spokesperson for Americans.
i just put out my understanding of the situation.
flyingiman yeah i know what you mean.....