Hooorayy taxes!!

Ok, this may be better suited for a politics/activism/philosphy hybrid section, but whatever... :stoned:

In wake of the recent financial events, there seems to be more discussion asking what role should government play? And more importantly... how can we PAY for it?

I heard about how they tax a small percentage of stock sales in Europe that, if implimented in the U.S., would bring in about $100,000,000,000 per year. The basic discussion was about finding ways to find reasonable taxation to aid in paying off the debt.

Now, with talk of ridding the government of complete WASTES of money and also searching for new ways to tax shit so we can stop spiraling into our debt oblivion... couldn't this be a benefit to Cannabis culture? In the past, the Drug War has been an ideal that was enforced because of public image and the financial burden was somewhat taboo to speak about. It is to the point where we may have to sacrifice programs that "served a purpose" in the past for the sake of national security.

I feel it is getting to a point where the may actually say:
Politician #1: "You know what... we need some fucking money baaad! Lets let them have their weed, we'll tax them... shit we'll even let them grow their own."
Politician #2: "Hmmm... so we save money, free up prison space for these CEO's ;), those pot-heads will PAY us... and possibly even LIKE us too?"
Politician #1: "Yup... makes you wonder why we didn't do it years ago."

I don't know... I'm :rasta:

If its not sold they cannot tax it. If we grow it they will not have access to it.

I think this is why certain alternative energy sources have taken so long to get going. They are decentralized, and so the Energy Corps could not get their piece of the pie. A solar panel on my roof reduces the pocket of Pg+E...

A turbine and panel on everyone's property erases the need for them altogether.

Damn i am a pessimistic bastard.

I love the thought of it Metal. The burden and debt this country is accumulating needs to be relieved somehow. Keep sharing. I think Gasoline should be taxed an extra 5 dollars a gallon. Keep people local, riding bikes, centralizing communities.

I'm saying, take it back to the basics of the Marijuana Tax Act. Shit... I'd pay a tax to be able to grow. Keep accurate records... pay taxes based on production. Also, from what I hear... the government grows SHIT buds :jointsmile: so I don't even want them providing it for us. Talk about creating jobs. I would open a shop TOMORROW!

I just think that... with talk of re-defining the role of government and a desperate need to cut spending/increase tax revenue... people may begin to see that we NEED to stop this War on Cannabis, whether they like it or not. People probably still think alcohol should be illegal... but they eventually realized that the violence and financial strain prohibition put on society was far greater than the effects of people using the drug (which is odd because the damage alcohol causes is prrrretty freaking bad, so the prohibition period must have been some WIIIILD ass shit).

I believe that the cost of Cannabis prohibition, public outcry, overpopulated prisons, and growing medical evidence... compiled with the governments mounting debt, need for new forms of revenue, and growing re-focus on Constitutional rights will help support our argument.

- and yes... I live in a perfect world where the government is beginning to re-focus on Constitutional rights ;)

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Originally Posted by TheMetal1

I'm saying, take it back to the basics of the Marijuana Tax Act. Shit... I'd pay a tax to be able to grow. Keep accurate records... pay taxes based on production. Also, from what I hear... the government grows SHIT buds :jointsmile: so I don't even want them providing it for us. Talk about creating jobs. I would open a shop TOMORROW!

I just think that... with talk of re-defining the role of government and a desperate need to cut spending/increase tax revenue... people may begin to see that we NEED to stop this War on Cannabis, whether they like it or not. People probably still think alcohol should be illegal... but they eventually realized that the violence and financial strain prohibition put on society was far greater than the effects of people using the drug (which is odd because the damage alcohol causes is prrrretty freaking bad, so the prohibition period must have been some WIIIILD ass shit).

I believe that the cost of Cannabis prohibition, public outcry, overpopulated prisons, and growing medical evidence... compiled with the governments mounting debt, need for new forms of revenue, and growing re-focus on Constitutional rights will help support our argument.

- and yes... I live in a perfect world where the government is beginning to re-focus on Constitutional rights ;)

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I've said this for 33 years....To get the "Crime" outta weed you gotta get the "Cash" outta of it. If it were taxed the States and Feddys would get their cut.I'd Happliy Pay My "Production Taxes",and because of the law of Supply and Demand the price more than likley go down.

Personally I don't think there should be a single law on the books pertaining to MJ or its cultvation. Its just a plant. Nobody's taxed my tomato plants why should mu MJ plants be taxed?

I totally agree... but I can sum up my reasoning in one word:

COMPROMISE :hippy:

It's been a hard fought battle on both sides, so if some type of understanding is made by both sides... the result of that will have to be a compromise. Yes... I wish we would go back to the old West where you could go on your porch with a 12 gauge and tell the police to get the FUCK off of your property. Unfortunately... at least for now, if you want some freedom... you gotta pay the tax man.

Again, I agree that the government should have NO right to tell me what to do to my body, but since they tax alcohol production... I assume that is going to be the preferred action in regards to legal Cannabis.

Haha if they DO start taxing tomato plants... I'm going to throw the white flag to the N.W.O. and accept the Brave New World.

Metal I agree with you completely.

I would be more than happy to pay taxes on weed.

I just don't know how to make politicians see the light on this. Our letters and protests don't seem to be working. We need a new plan, a new direction.

I am firmly against taxes any other time, however if thats what we have to do for Cannabis to be acceptable then so be it.

Word... true-dee hoooooo :hippy:

I just think that with all this new financial burden... the arguments that have gone overlooked for so long will possibly be re-analyzed. Although we may not be able to persuade the opposition to change their opinion on Cannabis... I feel that they may NEED to change the law because we increasingly can't afford to continue the War on Cannabis simply to send a message.

Like I said, people probably STILL want alcohol illegal... but the government had to choose the lesser of two evils and end prohibition. I keep picturing some politicians sitting in a room like "You know how we used to joke about legalizing reefers and taxing them? Well god damnit... that kinda makes sense now!"

I don't know... maybe I just have to periodically fool myself into thinking "they" will give a shit soon :rasta:

I think we need to attack it from a fiscal angle. How much resources does the government use on anti-marijuana campaigns and imprisonment of minor marijuana crimes? When thinking of resources you have to think of police, courts, housing the prisoner, feeding him, giving him medical rights.. etc etc.. there is alot of money that goes into that.

Secondly bring up the number of nonviolent marijuana related crimes compared to violent marijuana related crimes.

Third, site prohibition crime and how crime dropped significantly once alcohol was legalized.

Fourth present marijuana as a business proposal... show the government how much money they stand to make. If it becomes a moral issue then allow them to require a license which limits people to a certain quantity per week/month (keep this seperate from MMJ laws which would be much more lax), which you have to pay for in addition to paying taxes on store bought marijuana or on your home grow yearly tax. The numbers have to be astronomical just from confirmed smokers.. imagine what it would be like once closet smokers come out of the wood works.

Politicians love money... If you show them how it would save money in addition to add recurring revenues to the government I bet they would be more inclined to listen. The problem is that no one ever makes it far enough to get heard by the senate it seems.

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Originally Posted by TheMetal1

I don't know... maybe I just have to periodically fool myself into thinking "they" will give a shit soon :rasta:

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I'm thinking a time like this is lurking around the corner.. maybe not in the next 10 years, but I think in my life time at least that I will see this.

It makes way too much sense for them not to do it. Marijuana isn't like meth, cocaine, or heroine. It's a plant that's been proven to be non addictive... RAWR! :stoned:

Seems like we're not the only people talking about this.... :stoned:

About.com: http://www.prohibitioncosts.org/endorsers.html
- click on the left of the page to read full report

The "rights of the individual" argument hasn't made much of a dent.... thankfully MONEY TALKS. Now that we NEED money more than ever... those potential dollar signs are going to make them droooooool. :rasta:

Faithless says in his song Weapons of mass destruction

"Inaction is a weapon of mass destruction"

i add ignorance to that, and we got half the country who just "doesnt care"

but i agree, I would take the tax option and willingly pay for it than to have this mess continue to ruin lives and waste my other taxes (lets say if its not taxed ridiculously, u can never trust these govt ppl, u may wake up and see legalized mj with a sin tax of 120%)

first hey yall if any are interested im runnig low 8's to a high 7 in my nova and am ranked 144

now on to taxes first if mcain and palin are elected dont get your hopes up that we will get our beutiful plant legalized for any reason. the conservitives still see it as a monster of a drug that destroys lives and familys just like heroin, i do know that there are a few conservitives here who will disagree with me. but on a whole they wont let it happen. this does not mean i support obama.

now from what i know about economics(wich is my weekly paycheck) is that if i do not have enough money and am goin into debt i have to make more. now in my veiw the gov't must make money and for them there weekly paycheck is the taxes taken from my check. its not hard to see that if the country is goin in debt they have to raise more money and the way they do it is by taxes. i hate payin taxes as much as the next guy but lets face it at the present tax rate we are goin down the tubes and fast. we are spending money faster than we can make it. during the clinton admin( no im not a clinton lover either) we managed to get a surplus of money. wich bush decided to give back to the people. now we need that money. so how is the gov't supposed to pull us outa debt if they dont have somekind of tax increase? where do they cut federal spending? i know one place and that is iraq. lets let our generals kick some ass there get our kids home and then releive that finacial burdon. or we can raise taxes. i would not mind a slight tax increase, we need it. not to where it was but enough to balance th budget.

but i think we need to give BOTH the repubs and dems a huge vote of no confidence and get some fresh people who are not outa touch with america. i think both partys are screwed up and need ousted. its time for a third party take over.

could you imagine what would happen if on election day the tally of votes read
obama 0
mccain 0

that would send a clear and decisive message to our so called leaders.

Thanks for the great responses everyone. I think this could be a good boost for the argument.

While I agree with our need to re-analyze other situations regarding our government... I would like to keep this thread dedicated to Cannabis legislation. I think the potential revenue and savings could have a big influence in changing policy.

Ultimately, I don't think that any opinions will be changed (people will still feel Cannabis is dangerous) but they will realize that it should be treated like the other legal substances. People still hate alcohol after legalization... me included :stoned:... but I feel that people have the right to consume it.

So yeah... I think that the need for money and savings will overpower the governments desire to send a message to kids. Once they look at the profits from tobacco and alcohol (and hopefully the hypocrisy of their legality)... they will bite the bullet and take a chance. Desperate times call for desperate measure. Politicians KNOW this... :rasta:

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Originally Posted by TheMetal1

Thanks for the great responses everyone. I think this could be a good boost for the argument.

While I agree with our need to re-analyze other situations regarding our government... I would like to keep this thread dedicated to Cannabis legislation. I think the potential revenue and savings could have a big influence in changing policy.

Ultimately, I don't think that any opinions will be changed (people will still feel Cannabis is dangerous) but they will realize that it should be treated like the other legal substances. People still hate alcohol after legalization... me included :stoned:... but I feel that people have the right to consume it.

So yeah... I think that the need for money and savings will overpower the governments desire to send a message to kids. Once they look at the profits from tobacco and alcohol (and hopefully the hypocrisy of their legality)... they will bite the bullet and take a chance. Desperate times call for desperate measure. Politicians KNOW this... :rasta:

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in this case we should hope for a more disastrous economic policy for the next 4 years to really have a good excuse to cut govt spending?! as crazy as it sounds, we may actually need it, cuz i dont feel any of the politicians think we are in desparate times YET!