Question about how to make a good mother

Hello.
I am growing a nice first grow of White Widows and took 2 clones from each of them before I flipped to 12/12.
Now I have isolated which one of the plants I want to be the grand mom of my future grows of WW and am therefor in the process of making the corresponding clones into mothers.
My question is how is this best done?

What I have done is to FIM the top first one time and then the new tops one more time as well as 2 of the highest branches.
It makes sence to me to make a plant that becomes as much of a bush as possible but I want to make sure that that is the case.

The next question is:
How do I sustain a mother as a good plant to get clones from? What I mean is, what is the best way to actually take the clones from it to make sure it will bounce back and produce more branches to take clones from asap?

Puffzter

This is the best article on keeping a mother i've found.

http://boards.cannabis.com/advanced-...ml#post1546321

peace
skeet

Fantastic post man. :)

Thanks so much.

Puffzter

I wouldn't play with bonsai moms yet. In order to keep a plant that small you have to know when you can take a cutting to best benifit the cutting and the remaining plant. Take it from someone who has had their own mother problems, don't rush anything! Let your clone grow nice and strong just as you would a vegging plant. Once you have a nice strong helthy plant bend the top/tops right over and let the branches below start growing out. Once they are at least an inch and a half take the very top that was bent as a clone and let the new branches grow in. if you need to as the get bigger keep pulling them to the edge of the pot and spreading them out. You want a bush but you want a bush that you can take a cutting off of and give it some time to take the next cutting, then the next because the one left behind will redirect it's extra energy to the new branches. It turns into a cycle. As for transplanting and root trimming dson't do it yet. I have my moms in a 3gl pot only once they get rootbound in that would I trim the roots and as you get to know your mother better and what she is capible of then trim the root size down. Never rush a mother and next try to boost her back up because if you fuck up a mother the whole cycle of your grow is fucked and if you do it bad enough it can degrade the DNA of the plant and therefore all the clones to come and it will nevver get back to what it was. Don't over fert and don't over love just let her grow and help her take shape

Already "Bonzaied" it. :P

It looks fine. And I am making a second mother from a clone I took from the first when I started to form it.

It's about 4 weeks until I will start a 16-25 plant SoG so I have some time to get clones still. And a gap between grows wont be a big problem. I Smoke 20 grams/month tops and I have 2-300 grams incoming hehe.

Puffzter

Good luck, I hope it works out for you but just in case it doesn't remember my words.;)

I'd be interested to hear more and from others about degrading the genetics. i was under the impression that the genetics and their potential would always be there...it's up to the grower to reach that potential.

come one come all!
Skeet

Quote:

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Originally Posted by elskeetro

I'd be interested to hear more and from others about degrading the genetics. i was under the impression that the genetics and their potential would always be there...it's up to the grower to reach that potential.

come one come all!
Skeet

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Read the bible. Every grower should have that book memorized. It's just like revegging a plant, it will never do as well as the original not even the clones because it now carries a new history in it's genetic makeup.

Which bible are you referring to? Jorge's or Greg Green's? or perhaps another one?

I've referred to Jorge's several times. But i don't necessarily take one person's stance as gospel (even if he does wear a beret and dreadlocks!). He says things that i've heard contradicted several times around here (no specific examples at the moment) and i just like to get a few folks talking and see what others have to say.

Let me know which book you mean and i'll read up on it.

thanks
Skeet

Jorge's newest one.

Yes genetics CAN degrade over time but nothing sais it will at a particular time. Its all in probability.
I have a genetic chart for every clone and plant that make it possible to follow it back to its original seed and I will never take clones to use for production that is more than 2 generations away from the original seed.

As it is now I took clones from all my seed bred plants. I put them in 12/12. 5th week of bloom I selected which one had the best traits and threw out the non corresponding clones and made mothers of the clones from that plant.
I have to be VERY unlucky to have a genetic degrade in fewer than 4-10 generations from seed purelly mathematically so if I stay at first to 2nd generation I will by all probability be in the safe from that problem. And, since a good kept mother can be kept for 5-10 years I'd say its unlikelly I will have to worry about my WW genetics for quite some time if I don't loose all my plants at the same time. Worst case I have to go to third generation cloning for some years before I do a new search for a superfemale from a seed grow.
Next step for me atm is to do a sative seed grow during the winter at some point and from there try to find a good mother as well so I have White Widow, Hindu Kush (already making a mother of that) and then a 3rd strain from a sativa I have not decided on yet. Strawberry Cough or Arjans Super Silver Haze #3 (very nice smoke and the lowest sativa in the world) as I think now. Time will tell.

Puffzter

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Puffzter

Yes genetics CAN degrade over time but nothing sais it will at a particular time. Its all in probability.
I have a genetic chart for every clone and plant that make it possible to follow it back to its original seed and I will never take clones to use for production that is more than 2 generations away from the original seed.

As it is now I took clones from all my seed bred plants. I put them in 12/12. 5th week of bloom I selected which one had the best traits and threw out the non corresponding clones and made mothers of the clones from that plant.
I have to be VERY unlucky to have a genetic degrade in fewer than 4-10 generations from seed purelly mathematically so if I stay at first to 2nd generation I will by all probability be in the safe from that problem. And, since a good kept mother can be kept for 5-10 years I'd say its unlikelly I will have to worry about my WW genetics for quite some time if I don't loose all my plants at the same time. Worst case I have to go to third generation cloning for some years before I do a new search for a superfemale from a seed grow.
Next step for me atm is to do a sative seed grow during the winter at some point and from there try to find a good mother as well so I have White Widow, Hindu Kush (already making a mother of that) and then a 3rd strain from a sativa I have not decided on yet. Strawberry Cough or Arjans Super Silver Haze #3 (very nice smoke and the lowest sativa in the world) as I think now. Time will tell.

Puffzter

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So long as you preserve and maitain the mother then the clone, then clone of clone, the clone of clone of clone, the DNA shouldn't degrade it is completely possible to clone only from your last crop and continue that way through the cycle for years and not need a mother. I know a few old timers who have been cloning this way for 5+ and 8+ years and they have the most potent stable strains around here. Their clones will cost you easily $200 each though.

Yes but the risk of degradation is bigger.
However it IS very small just as you say. The good thing is you don't have to keep a mother but the bad thing is that you need to keep clones for a long time while the last crop go through bloom to harvest so I think a mother is safer both from a genetic standpoint and for workload reasons.
Also you get a very uniform grow when all plants have exactly the same genetics.
Anyway, lets get back on topic (after a very interesting discussion I might add).

Any input is welcome on:
The best way of keeping a motherplant and to take clones from it to keep it a stable source of clones over time.

One thing I have been thinking about is what way it is actually best to take the clones from a motherplant.
I mean if I keep taking tops I will get two new tops from the node under that cut. If I take them lower I will loose one spot from which new ones can grow, right?
Either way will eventually cause problems.
I see these motherplant people keep for years and years without making them bigger and bigger.
What is it I havent grasped in the harvesting of clones while keeping a mother about same over all size over time?

To keep taking 20-30 clones from a plant a month for years while still keeping it growing all over and not have to move further and further up and out is what I would want.
Like this:
http://www.cannabase.com/cl/pages/clones/cl-pics/1.jpg

How?
I am making 2 Bonzai mothers atm and just want some onput on how to harvest it and keep it a small bonzai like that.

Puffzter

Hey Puff, how are your mums doing? If you've found some answers to some of your questions in this post, would you mind giving an update? Is the Bonsai method working for you?

My mother plants are doing just fine. Still the size of a bonzai and I have encountered no problems with them.
Sometimes I have forgot to water them 2-3 days but they bounce right back in 6-8 hours again.

I would say bonzai is the way to go for a small to medium op since you easy can keep 2-3 moms on a square foot under a 125W LE and take around 20-25 clones a month from them.

Puffzter

:hippy:

i got me an o.g. blueberry seed from at least 5 years ago.. not sure which pheno it came off of but im gonna find out. any way.. i need a mother.

i found this article a while ago and have been wanting to try it. everything seems simple enough and i have enough experience to do it properly.

however there is one question i have. when the article talks about root pruning it says to bury it deeper and deeper everytime.

I have a banyan bonsai and i noticed that where the arial roots come out of is like tiny little dots on the branches... my 2 week old BB has the same "nodes" partially up the stem, up to where the first leave formed.

since it shot up like crazy after the first feeding i have approx. 4"/8cm of bare trunk.

My question is this. Based on my experience with ficus, and the ability of cannabis to pretty much go through hell and still come out amazing, im assuming that when i drop this thing into a bigger pot that i can fill the soil up to the first nodal segment. is this true? or do i have to do it slowely over time? basically im lookin to keep it as short as possible.. and having 4 inches of trunk aint exactly conservative if i go pop that whole thing into a bigger pot as is.

ps 4th grow. fire everytime... now im lookin for efficiency and longevity=)

if its female, off the first clones ima cross with lowrider just for some unstable seed stock :p:p:p:p

if its male i got some more pollen =D

7Wx5Dx5H dedicated flower +1000watt hps.

4Wx2Dx4.5H dedicated veg + 3x105watt cfls 6000k, 4500-5000k and 2400k full spectrum

ill start a thread soon, but i gotta know if i can bury this thing up to its ass no worries :giggity:

Hello and welcome fffuuudesu,

Probably would get more responces if you started a fresh thread for your question, but it did give backround to your question so who cares?

Yea you can bury the plant up to it's ears. The stalk will simply send roots out from it and become a root rather then a stalk.
Besides helping you get rid of 4" of useless stem, the plant will be happier too.

Don't sweat it. :thumbsup:

:thumbsup::hippy: