Smartlamp LED grow test

Not sure if I am putting this in the right spot but here goes.

Hi guys, thereâ??s been a lot of talk about growing with LEDs in the past year and we finally took the plunge after doing a bit of research so I thought Iâ??d share some of our results so far.

First, we went with the TI-Smartbar from Theoreme Innovation. After looking into the various lights out there it seemed like they had the best technology and the most powerful lamps compared to all the others some of which looked like toys.

We thought about going with the Smartlamp 600 they have, but since we already use 1000 watts and since the Smartbars are water cooled, it seemed like the perfect heat control system since we do have to do a lot of air conditioning requirements.

The Smartbars are two bars sold as a kit with the pump, ballast and water hoses (you can see the hook-up in the photos). We had to get a water tub and get the electrical hooked up because the Smartbar uses 240 volt. The pump is submersed in the water and circulates the water through the lights and back. In the long run we will get a chiller and run all the smartbars in series through the chiller.

We grow under a medical permit using 1000 watt HPS for flowering phase. You can see our set-up from the attached photos.

This is our first test with these led lights, so we have made a few mistakes along the way that we will correct on our next test, but for this first test we want to use the same conditions as for our plants under HPS. Later we will try to figure out what nutrient changes might work better.

So a few words about conditions which are the same for both HPS and LED plants :

Room temperature is about 21C (70F) degrees
Humidity 55%
Pots are 12 inches
12 hour lighting for flowering
Nutrients:
Canna CoCo A ( 1-4-2 ) 500 ml
Canna CoCo B ( 4-0-1 ) 500 ml
Water 200 L
Cannazym 400 ml
BioBoost 200 ml
PPM 600 to 900

Problem one was that we got started under the LED 5 days later than under HPS due to a delay in hooking up the electrical for the Smartbars.

So the photos with the HPS are at 35 days and the LEDs at 30 days (or 48 days vs. 53 days for the second set of photos).

Second problem was that we didnâ??t pay much attention to the water reservoir for the first month and let the water get really low due to evaporation which is apparently a problem because the water temperature got really hot. Apparently this reduces the amount of light generated by the lights and reduces lifespan. We sure wonâ??t make that mistake again!

On Experiments with Hydroponics, Aeroponics, and LED Grow Lighting they put a fan next to their water tank so that would be a good idea to reduce water temp and increase the light output from the lights.

Results so far:

Day 30 (LED) average plant height = 17.4 inches, average width = 17.5 inches
Day 35 (HPS) average plant height = 18.4 inches, average width = 18.5 inches

HPS had received 16.7% more light (in days).but only had a 5.7% advantage in height and width.

Day 48 (LED) average plant height = 17.4 inches, average width = 17.5 inches, average flowering branches per plant = 8.5
Day 53 (HPS) average plant height = 18.4 inches, average width = 18.5 inches, average flowering branches per plant = 9

HPS had received 10.4% more light by this time (days) but only had a 5.1% advantage in width and height and a 5.9% advantage in number of flowering branches.

Temperature under the HPS is 26C (79F) and 21C (70F) under the LED. I am not sure if this will make a difference or not. I could adjust this once the room goes all LED cause we wonâ??t need to run so much (any?) A/C in the room. Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

Generally watering under the HPS is every 5 to 6 days but every 7 to 8 days under the LED.

We also moved the plants under led closer together after the first month (to the way appear in the photos) since that gave us better light coverage on them without any heat issues or penetration problems.

So far given the 60% saving in power costs to run the lights and lower A/C costs, this is definitely looking like a much better bet than the HPS.

What will we be working on for the next run:

-not screwing-up with the water level in the water reservoir which theoretically should increase the light emission from the leds

-starting the test at the same time

Not sure what optimization to do on the nutrient level yet. Thoughts or experiences to share?

More to come â?¦

The board only let's me upload 5 photos -- the green plants are the LED plants with the light turned off so you can properly see the plant.

if the room is all LED then there's probably no need for a/c... unless you need to maintain humidity levels.

i have some ques regarding the smartlamp and your setup? what is the water temp going into the light? and coming out of the light? how exactly are you cooling the water w/o a chiller?

most importantly.. how much yield are you expecting?

Great information!:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsu p:
Subscribed!:cool:

Aloha,
Weezard

Got my attention... I have done a few grows with LEDs myself, using the procyons. Feel free to rummage my threads. We had nute and watering issues that we found out...plants transpire much less under LEDs as well...Look forward to seeing your progress with a pure LED grow:greenthumb:
whiskeytango

Tip on the Nutrients: If you are growing in coco with Canna Coco A and B, try using 6ml per gallon, which is not quite less then 1/2 the recommended. Also water with at least 20% runoff once a day. Get PH as close to 5.5 as possible.

I cant wate to see it also.:thumbsup:

I've got a couple ideas for ya, use high intensity led lights the more the merrier. If you are growing in pots, you may get a better yield for you have complete control of your watering cycle,nutrient content. Most folks kill plants with kindness. That's one thing I have learned in my 20+ years of growing, for medical needs. I am a believer in radio playing mellow music, and when your with your plants, talk to them, I know they aren't going to talk back, however there is something about soft talk, and mellow radio that helps plants grow, after the years I've grown alot, and always talk and have a radio going with mellow tapes or cd sets going.try it, you might be really surprised

sorry forgot to add... for your water circuit your lights should be in parallel with each other... not in series, the water would be too hot to cool the 2nd light properly

Hey everyone. Sorry for the delay in getting back with the final results and the start for test 2. We were enjoying a bit of a holiday.

As you may remember Test 1 suffered a few screw-ups on our part :

- 60 hours less light for the LED test than the HPS test due to technical problems. One thing that wasnâ??t clear was that the 60 hours (5 days) was at the switchover to flowering so the impact may have been greater than just the 10% difference in amount of light between HPS and LED â?? we will see in this 2nd test.

- a month long dropping water level in the basin which raised the temperature of the water and according to Theoreme Innovation can reduce the amount of light output from the lights.

-placing the plants more spread out than we should have.

Plus, we may have had a difference due to a difference in the ambient temperature around the plants comparing the HPS to the LED. One of you found some info that indicated that this might affect final yield results. Thanks a lot for the info.

So as you will see below, we hope to correct these errors in test 2.

So the final dry weight result from the LED was 0.75 lbs. For us this is a great first result. Our best guess (and hope) for test 2 will be one pound and we will work on improving that in test 3.

According to our calculations this yield works out like this :

HPS LED LED
Test 1 Test 1 Test 2
Power (12¢kWh) (goal)

Yield1.4 lb 0.75 lb 1.0 lb
Electricity$94.75 $34.68 $34.68
AirCon $38.77 $13.80 $13.80
Bulb Cost $19.26 0.00 0.00
Ballast Cost $11.42 $25.47 $25.47
Total $164.20 $73.95 $73.95

Cost per lb : $117.29 $98.60 $73.95

Savings to HPS : 15.9% 37.0%

So this is a cool result so far with more refining to go especially since we had one extra plant running under the HPS (6 plants vs. 7) this time.

How did we figure this out :

- we pay 12¢kWh. HPS total to light 789.6 kWH. LED to power 288.96 kWh. You can calculate with your own power rate to see how your figure would be different. Obviously the higher your electricity rate, the higher the savings.
- AirCon : at the time of this test we had air con running. Whether we would need air con at all with a full LED set-up is unclear, but these lamps run really cool so probably not but too early to say. The cost of air con was calculated by a friend who knows about air conditioning. Basically my aircon guy says about 33% of the cost to light would be used in aircon here. Down south I guess this would be a lot higher.
- Bulb costs : ours cost us $129 per year and we change them every year to get the most from them, so every 4500 hours to pick a round figure.
- Ballast cost for the Smartbar is $1895 divided by 50 000 lifespan x 672 hours for this test. HPS is $850 for a full set-up of reflector, ballast etc lasting the same time as the Smartbar of 50 000. Maybe using 50 000 for the ballast is not realistic as that would be about 11 years. Does anyone have any feedback on this part?

Test 2 Set-up
You can see the new set-up for test 2 in the photos.

What is different?

- We put a fan on the water basin like on Experiments with Hydroponics, Aeroponics, and LED Grow Lighting. Our basin water is running about 44oC more or less which is what the manufacturer says is what it should be at most. The fan should take it down a fair bit according to what is on greenpinelane. Hopefully that will give a good kick of extra light.

- To eliminate any light contamination cross-over effect for sure, we build a little cabinet around the Led which you can see. We donâ??t grow this way normally so a little concerned about CO2 penetration into the cabinet. We will raise the bottom of the cabinet walls below the pot level. Ideas or thoughts on this one?

- Now I am proud of this one : for the heat around the plant, we have run a coil system from the water coming out of the light around the plants. The idea being to raise up the plant temperature to the same as the HPS so we can eliminate this as a potential difference.

What isnâ??t changing :

We arenâ??t changing our nutrient levels. They stay the same as for the HPS for now. Provided we master the changes above to give us a good baseline test, we will start playing with nutrients in test 3. We have had lots of good suggestions for test 3 nutrient changes. Thanks everyone and looking forward to your feedback.

Weâ??ll post some photos once the plants are in the set-up this week.

Hi.

I am not sure of the water temperature in and out of the light, but in the basin it is running about 44 celcius. The cooling is done by thermal transfer between the air and the water basin. In a final all LED set-up, we would run a chiller I am imagining.

You can see our test 1 results farther down.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by thatsmefiend

if the room is all LED then there's probably no need for a/c... unless you need to maintain humidity levels.

i have some ques regarding the smartlamp and your setup? what is the water temp going into the light? and coming out of the light? how exactly are you cooling the water w/o a chiller?

most importantly.. how much yield are you expecting?

---

The manufacturer says in series not parallel.

Apparently the increase per lamp is about 3 degrees in the type of one kit system we are using. The advice they give is that you increase the water flow as you increase the number of lights in series. The water pressure with this one kit is really low. Obviously the thermal transfer ability of your cooling technique (water basin in this set-up) has to increase with the number of lights.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by thatsmefiend

sorry forgot to add... for your water circuit your lights should be in parallel with each other... not in series, the water would be too hot to cool the 2nd light properly

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ledgrowtester

The manufacturer says in series not parallel.

Apparently the increase per lamp is about 3 degrees in the type of one kit system we are using. The advice they give is that you increase the water flow as you increase the number of lights in series. The water pressure with this one kit is really low. Obviously the thermal transfer ability of your cooling technique (water basin in this set-up) has to increase with the number of lights.

---

Yeah actually I noticed it being in "series" on the manufacturers site... which pretty much ruins the whole "counterflow design" that everything else uses! It's probably better in parallel atleast thats how I'd hook it up despite their reccomendations. if your water level is decreasing or evaporating then the water must be too hot. You could always use city water and a drain to cool the lights but thats just wasting water... a chiller is the way too go

does it come with a water regulator?

can you post pics of your harvest? im very interested, been at this light a lil too long.... thanks

It comes with a pump. The water runs about 44 C (which is what the manufacturer says it will do) so the dropping water level is just a question of evaporation. We have added a fan for this round so the temperature should be lower in the next test following greenpinelane's experience.

Now that we have fixed the problem with the tank not too worried as will install a chiller (no hot tub to heat lol).

The pump flow with only one kit is not that strong. Like a aquarium pump mostly.

I wasn't around for harvest so no photos this time. We'll fix that on test 2.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by thatsmefiend

Yeah actually I noticed it being in "series" on the manufacturers site... which pretty much ruins the whole "counterflow design" that everything else uses! It's probably better in parallel atleast thats how I'd hook it up despite their reccomendations. if your water level is decreasing or evaporating then the water must be too hot. You could always use city water and a drain to cool the lights but thats just wasting water... a chiller is the way too go

does it come with a water regulator?

can you post pics of your harvest? im very interested, been at this light a lil too long.... thanks

---

Just a quick update to let you know we aren't dead ; we are waiting for our new medical grow permit so we can start test 2.

The government isn't fast, but, hey, at least they're slow.

We'll post an update as soon as we are able to start the new grow.