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Why should McCain or Obama be President
Everyone always asking Why I think Obama should be President heres why. Last year I was in a really bad car wreck. I didnt know if I was going to make it. I was in a coma for a month and when I came out of it the first thing I saw was my kids. All I could think about was them. Before he annouced he was running me and my wife where going to vote for Hilliary. But after hearing him speak and reading about him he inspired me. I know your going to say its all just a speech but its more than that. He is saying its going to take all americans to bring us out of this rut where in. We all have to do our part. Im doing that now my kids mean more to me than anything. Heres what Im doing Im buying american made products I traded my honda motorcycle in on a Hybrid malibu solar panels on my house drivng less doing all the things he's Inspired me to do. McCain doesnt do that for me. So with Obama I see a brighter future for my kids and with McCain I dont see that.
What I want to know is why should McCain be president. I want to hear about how he Inspires you not campain promises. Something from the heart no bashing but from the heart.
Thats the reason why I want Obama to be president he Inspires me to be a better AMERICAN. Thats all.:rasta::rastasmoke::pimp:
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Why should McCain or Obama be President
I haven't been inspired by a candidate since the Kennedy bros. Its been a while.lol
I don't think either candidate is really qualified to move this country out of the mess its in.The only choice is, Is it going to be another 4 years of all talk and no action or is it going to be another 8 years of all talk and no action.
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Why should McCain or Obama be President
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Originally Posted by BigWeed
Everyone always asking Why I think Obama should be President heres why. Last year I was in a really bad car wreck. I didnt know if I was going to make it. I was in a coma for a month and when I came out of it the first thing I saw was my kids. All I could think about was them. Before he annouced he was running me and my wife where going to vote for Hilliary. But after hearing him speak and reading about him he inspired me. I know your going to say its all just a speech but its more than that. He is saying its going to take all americans to bring us out of this rut where in. We all have to do our part. Im doing that now my kids mean more to me than anything. Heres what Im doing Im buying american made products I traded my honda motorcycle in on a Hybrid malibu solar panels on my house drivng less doing all the things he's Inspired me to do. McCain doesnt do that for me. So with Obama I see a brighter future for my kids and with McCain I dont see that.
What I want to know is why should McCain be president. I want to hear about how he Inspires you not campain promises. Something from the heart no bashing but from the heart.
Thats the reason why I want Obama to be president he Inspires me to be a better AMERICAN. Thats all.:rasta::rastasmoke::pimp:
For the last few months I have been listening and reading all I can about the choices this year....Obama I think is less poisoned by the "Inside The Beltway" type of thinking than anyone else. No one person (Obama or McCain) can fix whats wrong with this country...Its gonna take ALL of us-Democrat or Republican
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Why should McCain or Obama be President
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Originally Posted by BigWeed
I want to hear about how he Inspires you not campain promises. Something from the heart no bashing but from the heart.
Last I checked we vote based on who we feel is more qualified. Not who is a better inspirational speaker. If that were the case motivational speakers all around the nation would be running for office :hippy:
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Why should McCain or Obama be President
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Originally Posted by daihashi
Last I checked we vote based on who we feel is more qualified. Not who is a better inspirational speaker. If that were the case motivational speakers all around the nation would be running for office :hippy:
People base their votes on whatever they want.
For some it might be a strictly clinical look at the candidate's qualifications. For others it might be inspiration. For some it is purely their own self interest that they look at. For some it is partisan loyalty. For some it is ideology. Some people make all decisions based on logic, and others base decisions on emotion. And then there are psychological factors as well --- some people probably do not even know thier own motivations.
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Why should McCain or Obama be President
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Originally Posted by dragonrider
People base their votes on whatever they want.
Touchè!!! I would hope people would vote on more than inspirational sounding speeches as they do not prove anything and really a solid voting record would say a lot more for what a candidate will do in office.
But different strokes for different folks I guess.
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For some it might be a strictly clinical look at the candidate's qualifications. For others it might be inspiration. For some it is purely their own self interest that they look at. For some it is partisan loyalty. For some it is ideology. Some people make all decisions based on logic, and others base decisions on emotion. And then there are psychological factors as well --- some people probably do not even know thier own motivations.
Very true, I guess I just wish people would stop using 'hype' as their reason for voting for Obama. It's a little irritating to think that our next president might be elected just because he's a good speaker and not because of what he's done during his time in politics(everyone saying they're inspired over words and no action.).
Again different strokes for different folks. :hippy:
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Why should McCain or Obama be President
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Originally Posted by daihashi
Touchè!!! I would hope people would vote on more than inspirational sounding speeches as they do not prove anything and really a solid voting record would say a lot more for what a candidate will do in office.
But different strokes for different folks I guess.
That's pretty much the reason there's not a true democracy in the world. Imagine everyone voting on every piece of legislations, we'd have some strange policies.
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Why should McCain or Obama be President
Unfortunately these elections have come down to the lesser of two evils. Like usual.
So pretty much I look at both sides views and prioritize, what can stay and what has to become a 2nd or third priority. For example: Obama says he will decriminalize weed. That's very cool and I think he's right on that one however his other views such as socialised healthcare and guns cancel ANY good that marijuana decrimilization can bring.
I don't like McCain, actually I really don't like ANY big politicians. They are all shady as can be, both sides. If the Libertarians could show me they have a fighting chance at Presidential level I WILL vote for them. Until then I will vote for them on a local and state level (or any others really).
McCain should be president because we have to pick one of them. And I agree with McCain on the slightly more "important" issues. And I'll vote for him because Obama's views are way too Liberal (and not the good Liberal views I agree with, like gay marriage, ant-religion and other social issues). I say we may just have to tough it out for another 4 years and maybe (crosses fingers) someone MUCH better than Obama and McCain and Palin and Biden will come along.
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Why should McCain or Obama be President
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Originally Posted by thcbongman
That's pretty much the reason there's not a true democracy in the world. Imagine everyone voting on every piece of legislations, we'd have some strange policies.
well, i know 1 true democracy: Switzerland has ballots and referendums for every piece of law the put in effect
and i cant agree more with what was said above that people vote on different basis all the time
I would say Obama's word is promising, I for one don't mind to put him to test despite his lack of experience so to speak, than using a wrecked up, cranky idiot who still insists we should "win" in Iraq, win what? the war that was started over lies? for what? win al-qaeda in Iraq... then is turn to attack al-qaeda in Iran? or maybe al-qaeda in Russia? where and when will we finish them? we started fighting communism under "containment" policy... and we had a number of bloody wars and billions of $s lost @ our debt expense, thousands of our personnel's lives lost and hundreds of thousands of innocent people killed in our wars, maybe not all by us, but wars are the price of the defenseless civilians
yet we still have our greatest rival under the red flag of communism!
this makes me wanna cry or erase all my historical.political memory, then they say why u smoke weed!
how about we get the guy who actually attacked us? where the fuck is this prior servant of anti-communist america? this mad man who then supposedly turned on us... where the F is he, fuck iraq... that state was a shithole after Kuwait, incapable of doing harm even to its next door enemy Iran!
reminds of 30 years of war to "win" Vietnam and we totally lost at the end and Vietnam remains a socialist country... funny, on good terms with us!
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Why should McCain or Obama be President
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Originally Posted by flyingimam
well, i know 1 true democracy: Switzerland has ballots and referendums for every piece of law the put in effect
That's not completely true. Swiss has a parliament and laws are passed through parliament. It's just people have the right to reject laws if they collect enough signatures. By far the closest to a democracy, but not a completely democracy.
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Why should McCain or Obama be President
Uh I think there has to be a mixture between a Democracy and a Republic. One extreme or another doesn't work very well, at least not on a grande scale.
The U.S. has a great system, however it has been dirtied by corrupt politicians. And even so actually I think the U.S. has a constitutional federal republic.
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Why should McCain or Obama be President
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Originally Posted by BigWeed
But after hearing him speak and reading about him he inspired me. I know your going to say its all just a speech but its more than that. He is saying its going to take all americans to bring us out of this rut where in. ....
Thats the reason why I want Obama to be president he Inspires me to be a better AMERICAN. Thats all.:rasta::rastasmoke::pimp:
What rut that we are in? This is America, a Capitalistic system in which hard work and perserverance will pay off in the long run. Why does everyone want a hand out? I think kids are getting way too many trophies for last place and start to think that the American Government should provide everything for them. America provides an enviroment in which anything you've ever dreamed about is possible.
I will admit Obama is a good speech giver(so was Hitler..) and a very intelligent man but he was picked by a Liberal group (which has slipped my mind but believe me...ask me again if you dont) in order to reach their political goals.
Being an American in itself should inspire you to do anything you want. don't tell me I need to get us out of this rut and help everyone else out. When I get rich enough I'll donate my money to whom needs and in the mean time I'll be a nice person. Pfff sorry you got in a crash dude but I aint paying for sum bum's healthcare when he destroys his own health and I hit the gym everyday and eat right. If you think America needs a fixing move the fuck to Europe and save me some time.
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Why should McCain or Obama be President
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Originally Posted by thcbongman
That's not completely true. Swiss has a parliament and laws are passed through parliament. It's just people have the right to reject laws if they collect enough signatures. By far the closest to a democracy, but not a completely democracy.
there we go, thnx for correcting me, u said what i meant...
in reality hardly anything matches its definition 100%
justice... democracy... hell even recession!
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Why should McCain or Obama be President
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Originally Posted by OneIn1
What rut that we are in? This is America, a Capitalistic system in which hard work and perserverance will pay off in the long run. Why does everyone want a hand out? I think kids are getting way too many trophies for last place and start to think that the American Government should provide everything for them. America provides an enviroment in which anything you've ever dreamed about is possible.
I will admit Obama is a good speech giver(so was Hitler..) and a very intelligent man but he was picked by a Liberal group (which has slipped my mind but believe me...ask me again if you dont) in order to reach their political goals.
Being an American in itself should inspire you to do anything you want. don't tell me I need to get us out of this rut and help everyone else out. When I get rich enough I'll donate my money to whom needs and in the mean time I'll be a nice person. Pfff sorry you got in a crash dude but I aint paying for sum bum's healthcare when he destroys his own health and I hit the gym everyday and eat right. If you think America needs a fixing move the fuck to Europe and save me some time.
My god man, everything you've been saying tonight is everything thats on my mind. Rep for you!
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Why should McCain or Obama be President
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If you think America needs a fixing move the fuck to Europe and save me some time.
Sorry but I want to mention: thats how shit can go very wrong.
not taking sides, but thats in ideology supporting opposition-cleansing in a more "peaceful way" than what hitler did str8 up!
u gotta be able to stand those who oppose you, not tell them to stfu cuz u dont like what they say no matter how wrong they might be in your opinion!
be able to state your points, DEBATE, dont fight! maybe the other side also used the wrong terms for a healthy debate... but anyways, try looking @ things from some1 else's eyes as well sometimes
i get your idea about the healthcare system though, i doubt any country that i know has reached a totally acceptable healthcare system, but what we have now is run by insurance and pharmaceutical industries, its not at all the best choice we could have possibly have... almost everyone admits we need to change it in one way or another, but what we should change it to is the point of major debate and i am yet find any1 with a good comprehensive plan.
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Why should McCain or Obama be President
Thats how shit can go wrong?? Here's another one.....
Europe has mostly socialistic governments and by voting for Obama you turn America into a Socialistic government. Moving to europe is a hell of alot easier to live the hand out life sum people want. America was founded by people seeking freedom from a government that was overstepping its bounds. They were here first so lets honor them by keeping it that way.
the hand out of government Obama wants is YOU hand him more of the paycheck YOU earned and in return you will receive another botched program from the government in the form of Healthcare or ya da yada yada.
Yo rebgirl420 i'm running for President in 2024, the year I turn 35. Vote
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Why should McCain or Obama be President
I'll give you my main reason. McCain does not submit earmarks into the budget, and has promised:cool: to veto any budget with earmarks in it. The larger government gets the less freedom the citizens have.
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Why should McCain or Obama be President
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Originally Posted by OneIn1
What rut that we are in? This is America, a Capitalistic system in which hard work and perserverance will pay off in the long run. Why does everyone want a hand out? I think kids are getting way too many trophies for last place and start to think that the American Government should provide everything for them. America provides an enviroment in which anything you've ever dreamed about is possible.
I will admit Obama is a good speech giver(so was Hitler..) and a very intelligent man but he was picked by a Liberal group (which has slipped my mind but believe me...ask me again if you dont) in order to reach their political goals.
Being an American in itself should inspire you to do anything you want. don't tell me I need to get us out of this rut and help everyone else out. When I get rich enough I'll donate my money to whom needs and in the mean time I'll be a nice person. Pfff sorry you got in a crash dude but I aint paying for sum bum's healthcare when he destroys his own health and I hit the gym everyday and eat right. If you think America needs a fixing move the fuck to Europe and save me some time.
I take it you never had a serious health problem. I take it you live in a little pipe dream, everything me me me me me me me me me me, right? I don't like Obama at all and I find what you wrote to be absolutely sickening and disgusting as a human being, not even about left and right. You are simply misguided.
I'm not asking for a hand-out. Infact I work harder than you. That's because I have no choice. I am sick in America. In order to maintain my insurance I have to work. I have to make a lot of hard choices. Truthfully I came back from the doctor today. He insisted I should go into ER to get an MRI on my brain. I'm not going. Why? I have to work in the morning, in addition of going to school, in addition to taking care of my father who has cancer as well. I can't put myself in a position to get fired. My company fired a co-worker who had severe health problems because she couldn't work full-time, even with doctors order. They don't care, they fire you. Welcome to America bitch, you just arrived because you are obivious.
Hell yeah if you are sick, unable to work because you are sick, shouldn't someone step in and give a little assistance? Or do they die in this country like a street dog, in other words, like you suggest? Do you not care about fellow citizens of your country or are you seriously that self-absorbed?
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Why should McCain or Obama be President
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Originally Posted by thcbongman
I take it you never had a serious health problem. I take it you live in a little pipe dream, everything me me me me me me me me me me, right? I don't like Obama at all and I find what you wrote to be absolutely sickening and disgusting as a human being, not even about left and right. You are simply misguided.
Why does every 'sick' person think that when we say "hand-out" we are talking about them.
There is an obvious difference between people who ARE capable to provide for themselves and others who are NOT capable. I have no idea why everyone on this forum is hyper sensitive whenever someone mentions wasteful use of resources.
You would have to be living in an alternate universe to deny that this happens and that it is harmful to our country. There are people who do indeed sit at home who are capable to provide for themselves but choose to live off the government instead. These are the people that myself and many people who bring up this topic are referring to.
Honestly I'm getting tired of defending myself. Although this post wasn't addressed at me I share Onein1's point of view.
Get a grip, conservatives are not as cold hearted as people would like to believe.
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I'm not asking for a hand-out. Infact I work harder than you.
uhh how can you even say that or prove it. This is a forum and it's moot to even bring it up. That's like saying my wang is bigger than yours. No one really knows. I'm not sure what the work harder statement was supposed to prove aside that you're sick and working.
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That's because I have no choice. I am sick in America. In order to maintain my insurance I have to work. I have to make a lot of hard choices.
As callous as the following may sound which is more important to you? Maintaining your health as best as is currently possible or the alternative? Have you tried applying for benefits?
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Truthfully I came back from the doctor today. He insisted I should go into ER to get an MRI on my brain. I'm not going. Why? I have to work in the morning, in addition of going to school, in addition to taking care of my father who has cancer as well. I can't put myself in a position to get fired.
If you don't get an MRI and something happens to you then what will happen to everyone else who may depend on you and care for you? Can you put yourself in a position to let these people down or put them through sorrow?
I'm not saying this to be a dick but rather to put things i perspective. Yes a job is important, yes insurance is important... but if you don't make it to tomorrow then what was the point at all? You can sit back and blame the government who has had no responsibility in the unfortunate illness you have or you can try to live as best as you can. Taking care of your *own* health should be YOUR primary responsibility and then look to the government for aid. If you're completely unable to work due to being sick then yes, I believe assistance should be handed out to these individuals as well as the handicapped (truely handicap, not people who get handicap stickers when they just have arthritis in their wrists.. WTF).
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My company fired a co-worker who had severe health problems because she couldn't work full-time, even with doctors order. They don't care, they fire you. Welcome to America bitch, you just arrived because you are obivious.
Welcome to America, start hunting for another job that is more sensible and compassionate towards your needs. I'm sure your employer is not the only employer in your area for your field.
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Hell yeah if you are sick, unable to work because you are sick, shouldn't someone step in and give a little assistance? Or do they die in this country like a street dog, in other words, like you suggest? Do you not care about fellow citizens of your country or are you seriously that self-absorbed?
I think if you're truely unable to work because you're sick that you should get assistance. As a matter of fact I would like to see Social Security reformed to eliminate the retirement income portion of it (it's so screwed anyway) and put those funds into expanding Medicaid and Medicare to make it a true health care support system.
It's not that we're self absorbed.. it's that we don't enjoy wasteful spending. It's not America's job to provide for those who are capable. This nation was founded on the mentality that everyone is capable to achieve great things. It was founded on the notion that THE PEOPLE make up the country and not the government.
I wish to stay true to our founding fathers vision.
PS: The following should've been a key indicator that the poster was not talking about the sick:
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Pfff sorry you got in a crash dude but I aint paying for sum bum's healthcare when he destroys his own health and I hit the gym everyday and eat right.
Here he was obviously talking about someone who purposefully goes out and fucks up their health. Not someone who gets a debilitating disease.
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Why should McCain or Obama be President
Out of the two candidates McCain is WAY more qualified! However I dont agree with his policies so i see myself going for Obama. I really wish it wasnt on one of the two but those seem to be the cards we were dealt... I also see myself as a Democrat since im not rich...
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Why should McCain or Obama be President
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Originally Posted by daihashi
That's like saying my wang is bigger than yours. No one really knows. I'm not sure what the work harder statement was supposed to prove aside that you're sick and working.
I'm not sure if my wang is actually bigger than yours, but I am sure it is working harder. Much harder. Oh, yeah...
It may be that the ole Bongman wasn't reacting entirely to the message of OneIn1's post, and maybe was reacting partly to the tone. I know you made a point that not all conservatives are discomapssionate, but it's hard to argue that about someone who says things like:
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Originally Posted by OneIn1
If you think America needs a fixing move the fuck to Europe and save me some time.
That's maybe not the most compassionate tone I've heard.
I also found this one to be a bit over the top:
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Originally Posted by OneIn1
Europe has mostly socialistic governments and by voting for Obama you turn America into a Socialistic government.
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Why should McCain or Obama be President
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Originally Posted by trancefusion5
Out of the two candidates McCain is WAY more qualified! However I dont agree with his policies so i see myself going for Obama. I really wish it wasnt on one of the two but those seem to be the cards we were dealt... I also see myself as a Democrat since im not rich...
You realize being Democrat or Republican has nothing to do with Rich or Poor correct?
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Why should McCain or Obama be President
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Originally Posted by trancefusion5
Out of the two candidates McCain is WAY more qualified! However I dont agree with his policies so i see myself going for Obama. I really wish it wasnt on one of the two but those seem to be the cards we were dealt... I also see myself as a Democrat since im not rich...
u know i was thinking about a scenario
what if obama becomes president and ruins the 4 years, and we have had 8 years of bush b4 him, do u guys think, libertarians may actually pick up on next election in such a situation?
i mean ron paul to me sounded like the most reasonable candidate in means of policy and rhetoric, maybe he had a couple really ambicious ro too optimistic policies but most of what he says makes better sense than most of the garbage u hear from left or right
after we cant stay a two party democracy forever... or who knows, maybe we do stay that way! I cant predict shit about america!
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Why should McCain or Obama be President
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Originally Posted by daihashi
You realize being Democrat or Republican has nothing to do with Rich or Poor correct?
Yeah, just a joke. I also agree with most of the things they are about as well as the breaks for middle and lower class. It goes back to a joke i heard "When your young and naive your a democrat until you grow up and make money, then your a republican" Im not saying its true, I just thought it was funny.
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Why should McCain or Obama be President
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Originally Posted by flyingimam
u know i was thinking about a scenario
what if obama becomes president and ruins the 4 years, and we have had 8 years of bush b4 him, do u guys think, libertarians may actually pick up on next election in such a situation?
i mean ron paul to me sounded like the most reasonable candidate in means of policy and rhetoric, maybe he had a couple really ambicious ro too optimistic policies but most of what he says makes better sense than most of the garbage u hear from left or right
after we cant stay a two party democracy forever... or who knows, maybe we do stay that way! I cant predict shit about america!
Yeah I have no idea whats going to happen. Im almost scared to vote this election just so i dont feel quilty when all hell breaks loose. I know i just got to trust the gut here and do it though...
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Why should McCain or Obama be President
Quote:
Originally Posted by daihashi
Why does every 'sick' person think that when we say "hand-out" we are talking about them.
There is an obvious difference between people who ARE capable to provide for themselves and others who are NOT capable. I have no idea why everyone on this forum is hyper sensitive whenever someone mentions wasteful use of resources.
You would have to be living in an alternate universe to deny that this happens and that it is harmful to our country. There are people who do indeed sit at home who are capable to provide for themselves but choose to live off the government instead. These are the people that myself and many people who bring up this topic are referring to.
Honestly I'm getting tired of defending myself. Although this post wasn't addressed at me I share Onein1's point of view.
Get a grip, conservatives are not as cold hearted as people would like to believe.
I completely agree with you on the welfare aspect. Programs like Section 8 housing is vastly corrupted, lots of abuse and waste goes on. But what the hell does it have to do with automatically covering health care for people who lost their jobs and lost their insurance coverage? Why should a few rotten apples spoil it for the many more people who can't? Why should people get racked up with enormous bills while they have to wait to see if they even get medicaid or not?
I definitely agree there's a lot of waste. However I believe there are far better solutions to fixing the system.
[QUOTE]
uhh how can you even say that or prove it. This is a forum and it's moot to even bring it up. That's like saying my wang is bigger than yours. No one really knows. I'm not sure what the work harder statement was supposed to prove aside that you're sick and working.
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If you don't believe it, I don't care, doesn't change anything. I'm just telling you how it is. If you don't want to believe it so be it.
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As callous as the following may sound which is more important to you? Maintaining your health as best as is currently possible or the alternative? Have you tried applying for benefits?
Living is important to me, especially having decent health insurance that takes care of my health. I don't want to jeopardize my position. I would be dumb to.
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If you don't get an MRI and something happens to you then what will happen to everyone else who may depend on you and care for you? Can you put yourself in a position to let these people down or put them through sorrow?
Yeah, but I have no choice. What else can I do, gotta maintain coverage. If I lost my job and don't get a job after COBRA expires days in the case if I do get let go, I can kiss my insurability good bye. Pre-existing condition. People who aren't healthy don't have a clue of how messed up this system is, especially since I been treated . I'm in quite a good position in terms of coverage, so why ruin a good thing?
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I'm not saying this to be a dick but rather to put things i perspective. Yes a job is important, yes insurance is important... but if you don't make it to tomorrow then what was the point at all? You can sit back and blame the government who has had no responsibility in the unfortunate illness you have or you can try to live as best as you can. Taking care of your *own* health should be YOUR primary responsibility and then look to the government for aid. If you're completely unable to work due to being sick then yes, I believe assistance should be handed out to these individuals as well as the handicapped (truely handicap, not people who get handicap stickers when they just have arthritis in their wrists.. WTF).
What do you think I am doing? I'm not the one relying on the government.
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Welcome to America, start hunting for another job that is more sensible and compassionate towards your needs. I'm sure your employer is not the only employer in your area for your field.
My employer has been quite good to me during my illness and why should I change my job over....health care? I like my job. However company policy evolves, it's starting to signal a change of tune. You have to react and adapt to the reality.
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I think if you're truely unable to work because you're sick that you should get assistance. As a matter of fact I would like to see Social Security reformed to eliminate the retirement income portion of it (it's so screwed anyway) and put those funds into expanding Medicaid and Medicare to make it a true health care support system.
It's not that we're self absorbed.. it's that we don't enjoy wasteful spending. It's not America's job to provide for those who are capable. This nation was founded on the mentality that everyone is capable to achieve great things. It was founded on the notion that THE PEOPLE make up the country and not the government.
I wish to stay true to our founding fathers vision.
I once was unable to, but I am able, that's why I'm going to work. I'm healthy, other people don't think so. It's a matter of opinion and I don't agree with their recommendation.
I can agree with reforming medicaid, which I think is a good median. There are many great things about private health insurance, but you have to maintain coverage for those that need it. However many rules need to be changed in order to not get people to lose coverage because of a pre-existing condition. It's not solely a monetary issue but a policy one as well. I can't see why you can't support more supplements to health care. I'm sure there's enough military money to cover it.
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Why should McCain or Obama be President
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Originally Posted by dragonrider
I'm not sure if my wang is actually bigger than yours, but I am sure it is working harder. Much harder. Oh, yeah...
It may be that the ole Bongman wasn't reacting entirely to the message of OneIn1's post, and maybe was reacting partly to the tone. I know you made a point that not all conservatives are discomapssionate, but it's hard to argue that about someone who says things like:
That's maybe not the most compassionate tone I've heard.
I also found this one to be a bit over the top:
It doesn't change the fact that People here FREAK OUT when you say you don't believe in socialized healthcare.
I mean literally freak out and lash out and call you names. It's ridiculous that people make such assumptions based on something that was never said. It does not justify their actions or make it right and FRANKLY I'm tired of seeing members attacking people like this.
There are many times I want to tell people to get out of America if they don't like it. These people though are people who sit on their asses all day and complain about how they don't like the Right or the government but then don't try to do anything about it.
This is America and ALL of us have the opportunity to institute the change it is that we are seeking. When people constantly BASH our own country because they feel the Government isn't doing enough for them.... it's frustrating.
In my opinion unless you're willing to try to change what it is you don't like about this country, whether it's through supporting a politician you think holds the same values as you, voting on local legislation, trying to run for office yourself, being an advocate for a group or join an organization that is attempting to further your cause; unless you are willing to do something more than sit on your ass then I don't think people have the right to bash this nation of ours.
You are not entitled simply because you pay taxes. Being an American is more than that.
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Why should McCain or Obama be President
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Originally Posted by daihashi
This is America and ALL of us have the opportunity to institute the change it is that we are seeking. When people constantly BASH our own country because they feel the Government isn't doing enough for them.... it's frustrating.
In my opinion unless you're willing to try to change what it is you don't like about this country, whether it's through supporting a politician you think holds the same values as you, voting on local legislation, trying to run for office yourself, being an advocate for a group or join an organization that is attempting to further your cause; unless you are willing to do something more than sit on your ass then I don't think people have the right to bash this nation of ours.
You are not entitled simply because you pay taxes. Being an American is more than that.
well said
but still i think people have the right to bitch!!! lol
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Why should McCain or Obama be President
Quote:
Originally Posted by thcbongman
I completely agree with you on the welfare aspect. Programs like Section 8 housing is vastly corrupted, lots of abuse and waste goes on. But what the hell does it have to do with automatically covering health care for people who lost their jobs and lost their insurance coverage? Why should a few rotten apples spoil it for the many more people who can't? Why should people get racked up with enormous bills while they have to wait to see if they even get medicaid or not?
I definitely agree there's a lot of waste. However I believe there are far better solutions to fixing the system.
It has nothing to do with covering healthcare. If you read the paragraph correctly you would see that I was just ranting at how I'm tired of people lashing out and jumping the gun when another member says they don't support socialized health care.
The reason why it takes so long to get Medicaid and Medicare is in part to try to deter people who wish to just abuse the program. I am in agreement that it needs to be fixed/reformed HOWEVER I still am not for socializing the current healthcare system we have in place.
Over the last 20 years Employer based insurance has fallen from 70% to 61%. This seems to indicate a problem in the system and not something that needs to be enchanged entirely. I believe currently we have something like 18% of people without insurance. Are we going to punish 61% of Americans for the 18% of people who don't have insurance? Where is the logic in that? If it were close to a 50/50 ratio or even like a 60/40 ratio then it would make more sense.
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If you don't believe it, I don't care, doesn't change anything. I'm just telling you how it is. If you don't want to believe it so be it.
Frankly I don't care. The point is that YOU don't know how hard other people work in comparison to you. It was a moot statement and honestly I found it pointless to mention. You could work harder than me (honestly you probably do) or you could not. Point being is I don't know and there's no point in verifying. I used the wang contest because it feels like the old cliche "my dick is bigger than yours".
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Living is important to me, especially having decent health insurance that takes care of my health. I don't want to jeopardize my position. I would be dumb to.
So jeopardizing your life makes more sense? I understand your position but you seem to have your priorities out of place.
Living > Having a Home > Having a Job > Having Insurance.... Everything that you are trying to preserve in your life is dependant on you living but you chose to skip out on your MRI.
I am sincerely sorry to hear about your situation but your logic doesn't make sense to me.
Even if you don't believe it to be true, Another job CAN be found. You can't go out and GET another life.
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Yeah, but I have no choice. What else can I do, gotta maintain coverage. If I lost my job and don't get a job after COBRA expires days in the case if I do get let go, I can kiss my insurability good bye. Pre-existing condition. People who aren't healthy don't have a clue of how messed up this system is, especially since I been treated . I'm in quite a good position in terms of coverage, so why ruin a good thing?
Oh god.. You're right.. I don't have a clue. I've only worked with people who are severely handicapped, have MS, Crohns, Gastroparesis, POTS and the list goes on and on. You're right I have no clue how you're being treated </sarcasm>.
Don't assume that no one knows what you're going through. That is actually arrogant to assume no one could understand unless you're sick.
Many employers who offer employer based insurance work under a blanket policy; which means that everyone is covered. I sold insurance for a short while in my life (I hated it.. I had a moral dilemna about it) So I do actually know something about it.
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What do you think I am doing? I'm not the one relying on the government.
No, you're just complaining and lashing out at someone who NEVER SAID SICK PEOPLE WERE LOOKING FOR HAND OUTS.
You missed the point of my entire post that you lashed out on someone who simply felt that people should not get hand outs. My post was not even specifically about you but rather how this seems to be the going trend.
I am not cold.. I am not callous and I help many sick people in my day to day life. While no one here on this forum can attest to this personally there are a select few whom I talk to offline that have heard of some of my dealings.
Yet people like you, and another poster in another thread (who got his post deleted and I think perhaps banned) attacked me the exact same way. I've searched through the politics forum and find that quite frequently when this is brought up people always attack the person who says they don't want to help people looking for hand outs.
Guess what, Sick people.. the elderly.. the handicapped.. children.. There is a VERY HIGH probability that the posters that say they don't want to help support people looking for hand outs are not talking about the above demographics!!!
Like I said, calm down and get a grip. Not just you but any other sick person out there who thinks people are bashing them. I know first hand that no one wants to be sick. Like I said, I'm sort've surrounded by people with debilitating diseases.
My employer has been quite good to me during my illness and why should I change my job over....health care? I like my job. However company policy evolves, it's starting to signal a change of tune. You have to react and adapt to the reality.
I once was unable to, but I am able, that's why I'm going to work. I'm healthy, other people don't think so. It's a matter of opinion and I don't agree with their recommendation.
I can agree with reforming medicaid, which I think is a good median. There are many great things about private health insurance, but you have to maintain coverage for those that need it. However many rules need to be changed in order to not get people to lose coverage because of a pre-existing condition. It's not solely a monetary issue but a policy one as well. I can't see why you can't support more supplements to health care. I'm sure there's enough military money to cover it.[/QUOTE]
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Why should McCain or Obama be President
grrrr.. I tried to go back and edit because I realized some of my posts/quotes didn't make it.. here it is
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My employer has been quite good to me during my illness and why should I change my job over....health care? I like my job. However company policy evolves, it's starting to signal a change of tune. You have to react and adapt to the reality.
Good to you? They are going to fire you if yo uhave to go get an MRI. Your doctor is saying you should go to the ER. That sounds pretty damn important to me. If your employer doesn't understand that this is an essential need of yours then I'd have to argue that your Employer is not good to you.
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I once was unable to, but I am able, that's why I'm going to work. I'm healthy, other people don't think so. It's a matter of opinion and I don't agree with their recommendation.
I agree, some people who are out there working totally shouldn't be. Just because you can doesn't mean that you should. Believe it or not I am sorry to hear about your situation.
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I can agree with reforming medicaid, which I think is a good median. There are many great things about private health insurance, but you have to maintain coverage for those that need it. However many rules need to be changed in order to not get people to lose coverage because of a pre-existing condition. It's not solely a monetary issue but a policy one as well. I can't see why you can't support more supplements to health care. I'm sure there's enough military money to cover it.
Well there in lies the issue. I don't feel we need to take money from the military, I don't feel we need to tax companies more, I don't feel we need to raise any taxes. I feel that we need to cut wasteful spending.
If we removed the retirement portion of Social Security, put limitations on Welfare (meaning people can't stay on it their entire lives), basically if we shuffled money around from all these failed programs and built up Medicaid/Medicare then it could be a TRUELY GREAT system for individuals who truely need it.. such as yourself.
I feel a number of conservatives (I'm actually not conservative but pragmatic who leans slightly to the right) would probably agree with me to some degree.
Again THCbongman.. I understand all too well. I've been in the hospital way too many times to not empathize with you; it's that, I feel, there are better ways to fix this problem.
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Why should McCain or Obama be President
Quote:
Originally Posted by daihashi
It doesn't change the fact that People here FREAK OUT when you say you don't believe in socialized healthcare.
I mean literally freak out and lash out and call you names. It's ridiculous that people make such assumptions based on something that was never said. It does not justify their actions or make it right and FRANKLY I'm tired of seeing members attacking people like this.
There are many times I want to tell people to get out of America if they don't like it. These people though are people who sit on their asses all day and complain about how they don't like the Right or the government but then don't try to do anything about it.
This is America and ALL of us have the opportunity to institute the change it is that we are seeking. When people constantly BASH our own country because they feel the Government isn't doing enough for them.... it's frustrating.
In my opinion unless you're willing to try to change what it is you don't like about this country, whether it's through supporting a politician you think holds the same values as you, voting on local legislation, trying to run for office yourself, being an advocate for a group or join an organization that is attempting to further your cause; unless you are willing to do something more than sit on your ass then I don't think people have the right to bash this nation of ours.
You are not entitled simply because you pay taxes. Being an American is more than that.
I'm not in favor of paying the way for people who do not work and sit on their asses all day either, but I really don't think there is a lot of that going on in this country. That idea is a leftover relic of Reagan's "Welfare Queen" imagery. It's not a big problem.
But there ARE huge healthcare cost problems for millions of people in this country who are hardworking. That is a real problem, not an imaginary problem like the myth of the welfare queen.
The problems are mainly that there are millions of people who do not have group healthcare coverage through their employers or through some other organization.
If you do not have group healthcare coverage, it is prohibitively expensive for many people to get decent coverage, even if they are hardworking and make a decent paycheck.
If they have a pre-exisitng condition, and do not have group healthcare coverage, it is IMPOSSIBLE to get healthcare coverage.
If they have a pre-exisitng condition, and DO have group healthcare coverage through an employer, they can be trapped in a situation in which they cannot afford leave that job for any reason, including disability. People do things like work their job through chemo-therapy for fear of losing their job and the insurance that is keeping them alive.
We've already gone over the details of the two healtcare plans offered by Obama and McCain in the "Does McCain/Obama Repreesent Change" threads. And neither one of those two plans is anything close to "socailized medicine." Characterizing Obama's plan as "socialized" is a lie.
I don't know anyone who is for socailized medicine. I know a lot of people who are interested in affordable insurance and a guarantee that they aren't going to get screwed out of their insurance just bacause they actaully get sick and need their insurance or they decide they need to change jobs.
I think Obama's plan addresses the problem of affordability, the problem of accessibility for those with pre-exisitng conditions, and the problem of portability for those who change jobs. It will solve a lot of problems for hardworking people who are getting screwed today.
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Why should McCain or Obama be President
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonrider
I'm not in favor of paying the way for people who do not work and sit on their asses all day either, but I really don't think there is a lot of that going on in this country. That idea is a leftover relic of Reagan's "Welfare Queen" imagery. It's not a big problem.
I grew up in the 'ghetto'... in the 'wards'. I assure you that the Welfare Queen is not imaginary.
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But there ARE huge healthcare cost problems for millions of people in this country who are hardworking. That is a real problem, not an imaginary problem like the myth of the welfare queen.
Again free country, they can either demand healthcare from their current employers or seek opportunities elsewhere that will give them the benefits that they need. If these people are hardworking then they could try to find another job. Health should be the INDIVIDUAL's responisibility first and not the government.
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The problems are mainly that there are millions of people who do not have group healthcare coverage through their employers or through some other organization.
And why is this the fault of the government like everyone acts like it is? Can you show me where in our countries history it says "entitlement to free health care".
Again, free country and there are plenty of employers who will pay for your insurance. After all currently as of 2008 61% of Americans are covered by their Employers.
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If you do not have group healthcare coverage, it is prohibitively expensive for many people to get decent coverage, even if they are hardworking and make a decent paycheck.
Yes it is, but again for the people who can provide for themselves.. they have to decide what is more important. Their health or saving that money. If they can't do without either then they should probably be looking for a job that suits their needs better. It's cold and callous but no one is stopping them from getting what they need/want. You make your own opportunity in this country.
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If they have a pre-exisitng condition, and do not have group healthcare coverage, it is IMPOSSIBLE to get healthcare coverage.
If they have a pre-exisitng condition, and DO have group healthcare coverage through an employer, they can be trapped in a situation in which they cannot afford leave that job for any reason, including disability. People do things like work their job through chemo-therapy for fear of losing their job and the insurance that is keeping them alive.
I do believe that it should be mandatory to allow an employee leave of absence due to illness.
Also like I said, I'm actually licensed. If your employer has their benefits package written well then they will have a 'true' blanket policy. You have to hunt them out.
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We've already gone over the details of the two healtcare plans offered by Obama and McCain in the "Does McCain/Obama Repreesent Change" threads. And neither one of those two plans is anything close to "socailized medicine." Characterizing Obama's plan as "socialized" is a lie.
Socialized means that it uses public funds to create a service. So in a sense.. Medicaid is socialized, Medicare, Welfare.. all these programs are socialized programs
What I don't support is a complete redesign of our current healthcare system to put it under the governments control. Look what they've done with all the other Major programs they have and look at how awesomely they all suck!!!
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I don't know anyone who is for socailized medicine. I know a lot of people who are interested in affordable insurance and a guarantee that they aren't going to get screwed out of their insurance just bacause they actaully get sick and need their insurance or they decide they need to change jobs.
I think Obama's plan addresses the problem of affordability, the problem of accessibility for those with pre-exisitng conditions, and the problem of portability for those who change jobs. It will solve a lot of problems for hardworking people who are getting screwed today.
He could just as easily help people by writing a sort of Patient/Employer Bill of rights to protect people who are in situations like you. We don't need the government run our healthcare system. Do you really want a bunch of corrupt politicians taking your money and essentially flushing it down the toilet.
Again look at some of our current programs. Social Security is a perfect example of a program that's so far screwed there is no chance to save it.
PS: I do not have health insurance... I could probably use it but I still don't want a hand out from the government.
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Why should McCain or Obama be President
Quote:
Originally Posted by daihashi
Over the last 20 years Employer based insurance has fallen from 70% to 61%. This seems to indicate a problem in the system and not something that needs to be enchanged entirely. I believe currently we have something like 18% of people without insurance. Are we going to punish 61% of Americans for the 18% of people who don't have insurance? Where is the logic in that?
I do not know if the numbers and percentages yo quote are accurate, but I definitely know the MATH doesn't work like that. No one has ever said the people who do have insurance (61% according to you) need to pay for the insurance of those who do not have it. No one is planning to "punish" the people who do have insurance to pay for those who do not.
If you are talking specifically about Obama's plan, then you should know that it does not propopse to give "free" healthcare to most of those unisured people either. So for the most part no one would be paying for those people's new healthcare except themselves. Many of the people who do not have insurance could afford to pay for it and would pay for it is they had access to group rates through a group plan. But they don't have access, so they can't afford it. The plan would give them access to a new group healthcare plan, and most poeple who wanted to use it would pay for it themselves. That's not "socialized."
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Why should McCain or Obama be President
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonrider
I do not know if the numbers and percentages yo quote are accurate, but I definitely know the MATH doesn't work like that. No one has ever said the people who do have insurance (61% according to you) need to pay for the insurance of those who do not have it. No one is planning to "punish" the people who do have insurance to pay for those who do not.
Go to nchc.org. I've posted this information a few times now and I'm not going to repost it again. You can find it on that website.
Then google search for Americans with insurance between 2007-2008. There are several articles that indicate a 2% increase in people with employer based insurance.
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If you are talking specifically about Obama's plan, then you should know that it does not propopse to give "free" healthcare to most of those unisured people either. So for the most part no one would be paying for those people's new healthcare except themselves. Many of the people who do not have insurance could afford to pay for it and would pay for it is they had access to group rates through a group plan. But they don't have access, so they can't afford it. The plan would give them access to a new group healthcare plan, and most poeple who wanted to use it would pay for it themselves. That's not "socialized."
So tell me.. people who don't work. Do they just not get healthcare? This seems to leave a big loophole in your leaders plan.
Lastly, I don't care about Obama and my posts had nothing to do with him except when I've been replying to people after THCbongmans post. Leave Obama out of this as this has nothing to do with him.
My argument is specifically people on this forum LUNGING at other people when they say they don't want the government to give out handouts. Everyone takes offense and assumes they are talking about them. That is HIGHLY annoying and leads to fights and arguments that shouldn't happen.
I was hoping by highlighting that it would make the light go off in peoples heads that said "hey, maybe that person doesn't mean me. Maybe I should ask them more specifically what they mean.". However this wasn't the case, it figures that people would turn this back into an Obama related issue.
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Why should McCain or Obama be President
FYI.. I foresee this escalating. So before anyone flies off the handle I'm just going to concede. Not because I think I'm wrong but because I don't want to see this escalate into a fight among forum members.
Just please re-read what I said and bare in mind I had no hostility, anger or ill wishes in my posts. Please read them as someone looking at this out of concern of people jumping the gun on posts here in the politics forum and unecessarily attacking fellow members over things they never said and didn't mean the way it was interpreted.
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Why should McCain or Obama be President
Quote:
Originally Posted by daihashi
I grew up in the 'ghetto'... in the 'wards'. I assure you that the Welfare Queen is not imaginary.
It is an extremely small problem compared to the problem of lack of access to affordable healthcare. You are creating a false choice between completely supporting a bunch of lazy asses who don't work at all, and allowing hardworking people who are good American citizens fall through the cracks. The choice is not between those two extremes.
Obama's plan does not propose paying for everyone's healthcare on the backs of taxpayers. It doesn't force you to participate if you have your own insurance, but it does give you a tax credit to help pay for your own. It doesn't put your healthcare under "Government Control."
Daihashi, you and I went around on this subject in nauseating detail a few months ago in another thread. Because we've already covered it, I'm bowing out of this one. Good luck convincing everyone about the Democratic threat of creeping communism.
I think maybe O'Reilly is coming on, and I want to see the Obama interview. Goodnight...
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Why should McCain or Obama be President
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonrider
Good luck convincing everyone about the Democratic threat of creeping communism.
What was I trying to convince people of? I was trying to tell people to stop jumping on peoples asses over things they didn't say.
Once more you completely missed the point of my response to THCbongman. My post was actually non political but more of a reality check.
But whatever floats your boat, think about me what you will.
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Why should McCain or Obama be President
Quote:
Originally Posted by daihashi
It has nothing to do with covering healthcare. If you read the paragraph correctly you would see that I was just ranting at how I'm tired of people lashing out and jumping the gun when another member says they don't support socialized health care.
The reason why it takes so long to get Medicaid and Medicare is in part to try to deter people who wish to just abuse the program. I am in agreement that it needs to be fixed/reformed HOWEVER I still am not for socializing the current healthcare system we have in place.
Over the last 20 years Employer based insurance has fallen from 70% to 61%. This seems to indicate a problem in the system and not something that needs to be enchanged entirely. I believe currently we have something like 18% of people without insurance. Are we going to punish 61% of Americans for the 18% of people who don't have insurance? Where is the logic in that? If it were close to a 50/50 ratio or even like a 60/40 ratio then it would make more sense.
Damn right I'm going to lash out. His last paragraph was downright ignorant. My response was nothing political towards him, infact there was none involved in my response. about advocating socialized health care. Saying that if you want it fixed, move to Europe. Damn right I will lash out. It wasn't about a conservative who prefers to save costs and believes the private industry performs services more efficiently, which it does. It was about the ignorance of this tra-la-la-la dream he's living in who thinks giving $20 to a charity is doing his part to help society.
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Frankly I don't care. The point is that YOU don't know how hard other people work in comparison to you. It was a moot statement and honestly I found it pointless to mention. You could work harder than me (honestly you probably do) or you could not. Point being is I don't know and there's no point in verifying. I used the wang contest because it feels like the old cliche "my dick is bigger than yours".
You are right, I don't know. I threw it out in my fit of rage.
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So jeopardizing your life makes more sense? I understand your position but you seem to have your priorities out of place.
Living > Having a Home > Having a Job > Having Insurance.... Everything that you are trying to preserve in your life is dependant on you living but you chose to skip out on your MRI.
I am sincerely sorry to hear about your situation but your logic doesn't make sense to me.
Even if you don't believe it to be true, Another job CAN be found. You can't go out and GET another life.
I can't be out of coverage at any point in time, since I have frequent visits with a variety of specialists. Sure I could find any old job, but not one as lucrative, convenient and good developing skills & experience. I don't want to ruin that because my body fails on me.
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Oh god.. You're right.. I don't have a clue. I've only worked with people who are severely handicapped, have MS, Crohns, Gastroparesis, POTS and the list goes on and on. You're right I have no clue how you're being treated </sarcasm>.
Don't assume that no one knows what you're going through. That is actually arrogant to assume no one could understand unless you're sick.
Many employers who offer employer based insurance work under a blanket policy; which means that everyone is covered. I sold insurance for a short while in my life (I hated it.. I had a moral dilemna about it) So I do actually know something about it.
All right, through my seeth of rage, I had my blinders on. However when you get sick, you get the complete experience and not just the outside view. I am the only one experiencing it. I'm not trying to say mine is more exceptional than others, many more people have it far worse than me and I'm grateful just to be where I am now. Don't get me wrong. A lot of people that do not experience this situation do not know.
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No, you're just complaining and lashing out at someone who NEVER SAID SICK PEOPLE WERE LOOKING FOR HAND OUTS.
You missed the point of my entire post that you lashed out on someone who simply felt that people should not get hand outs. My post was not even specifically about you but rather how this seems to be the going trend.
I am not cold.. I am not callous and I help many sick people in my day to day life. While no one here on this forum can attest to this personally there are a select few whom I talk to offline that have heard of some of my dealings.
Yet people like you, and another poster in another thread (who got his post deleted and I think perhaps banned) attacked me the exact same way. I've searched through the politics forum and find that quite frequently when this is brought up people always attack the person who says they don't want to help people looking for hand outs.
Guess what, Sick people.. the elderly.. the handicapped.. children.. There is a VERY HIGH probability that the posters that say they don't want to help support people looking for hand outs are not talking about the above demographics!!!
Like I said, calm down and get a grip. Not just you but any other sick person out there who thinks people are bashing them. I know first hand that no one wants to be sick. Like I said, I'm sort've surrounded by people with debilitating diseases.
Even you would admit it could've been worded in a way that touches the point of against socialized health-care instead of some pipe-dream jackassery. Yeah, I went overboard, I shouldn't have lashed out just because he doesn't recognize the complexity of the health care issue, it isn't about party, it's about life.
He did say: "Pfff sorry you got in a crash dude but I aint paying for sum bum's healthcare when he destroys his own health and I hit the gym everyday and eat right."
You think this &#&$&$ got a perspective? How did this bum destroy with own health when he got into a crash and wtf does this have to do with you working out? Self-absorbed is correct.
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Why should McCain or Obama be President
Quote:
Originally Posted by thcbongman
You think this &#&$&$ got a perspective? How did this bum destroy with own health when he got into a crash and wtf does this have to do with you working out? Self-absorbed is correct.
I took this to mean people who obviously don't care about themselves getting government care paid for through citizen tax dollars when he himself puts forth the effort to take care of himself.. to keep himself healthy to keep himself out of the hospital/doctors office and keep costs down. As opposed to the person who doesn't give a f***, goes and applies for government healthcare, and is constantly in and out of the hospital because he doesn't give a shit. This is abuse of a program and wasteful spending.
I believe that's where he was trying to go with this, not try to lay blame on sick people. I think the majority of this board are compassionate to those truely in need. After all this is a MMJ site.
I'll let Onein1 speak for himself. Hopefully he can sort out what he meant by that for you. :hippy:
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Why should McCain or Obama be President
I'd vote for Obama because i'm liberal thus i agree with his policies compared to Mccain, such as pro choice, social healthcare and a withdrawl of troops asap. Also, i prefer Obama as a person, a speaker and a visionary who will provide the change a new majority of Americans will vote for in this election. Mccain is too old (ageist maybe but i feel it's a valid point) and i dislike his VP, the pitbull with lipstick :rollseyes:
Mccain may be more experianced but he doesn't seem pragmatic or in touch with the reality a lot of American are facing. I think he's too high in the sky with his GOP buddies, sipping champagne in one of his 8 mansions. Good luck to him, a hero who loves his country. He's too reactionary for me, where as i prefer Obamas progressive values.
