there is no f-ing way that Karma exist....prove me wrong!!!

today was one of the first time in months i was able to get out and go do something with my GF. We went to the Gravenstein Apple fair in Sebastopol, Ca. Really cool event with lots of great food and booths. I stopped by a local honey producer/bee keeper booth. We talked about his honey and his bees, a few of which were flying around. I commented on the bees...if they bothered people. "a few." we laughed, and i said how wonderful bees are and that i had never been stung in my life. I told him i thought it was cause i never freak when bees are around. just keep my cool and we leave each other alone. He said that was a good idea! so we buy four different type of honey. Lets recap: I say how wonderful bees are and support my local bee man. An hour later i was traveling down a highway at 60MPH...and wham a bee flies ass first into my neck and for the first time is 30 years of life Im stung by a bee. F-ing hurts. now I ask you HOW IN THE WORLD DOES KARMA EXIST if one the day out of thousands that Im being nice to bees they do this!!!!! LOL..... Karma, thats rich!

I think it is perfect karma! You purchased their stolen honey, they ruined your day by stinging you in the neck. Makes sense to me :jointsmile:

first off, i know i cannot PROVE karma exists to you... i guess i will just share some thoughts on the idea of it...

i always look at it as the unseen version of one of newton's laws of motion... for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction...

does it work that for every good thing done there will be an immediate good thing that happens back? no... vice-versa for bad things...

i think it happens more on an overall collection of tendencies... i think it often manifests itself in indirect ways... meaning that if you give someone who needs money some cash you won't necessarily receive cash one day when you need it... i think it happens more like you establish a habit of generosity in life and you receive generosity someday when someone has the opportunity to sue you and they don't or something.

it also extends beyond this life... karma built up in past lives floods over into this life and karma from this life will floods over into the next. if you try to look at a single event and expect to recognize its effect is like putting a drop of water into an ocean and expecting to see a difference... does it have an effect? absolutely... just not recognizable to the naked eye.

last thought is to look at the whole picture... you were nice to a few bees one day and got stung... there was hope that your single action would have equal reaction... it didn't and that sucks! but think of all the bees and insects you have killed in your life... good thing the insect community doesn't repay you for those actions! i bet you have come out far on top with only 1 sting in thirty years!

Look up the chaos theory, it may give you some insight...

I, myself, am a firm believer of karma..

Think about all the corrupt, greedy, close-minded people that achieve great power and wealth.... and then all the good-hearted people that live in poverty or illness. Karma's not real, there's only laws of averages... and bell curves..... stuff like that.

Yeah, you did buy some stolen honey, and maybe you killed a few insects with your car as well. Or perhaps you spitefully reminded the universe or whatever gods you believe in that you'd never been stung so your place in line was expedited to give you that new life experience. better to be stung by one bee than to piss off a whole hive of those lil bastards.....

Look on the bright side, at least now you know that you're not allergic to bee stings!

lol, that seems more like an ironic, murphy's law kind of thing.

karma has more to do with behavior, and the behavior of others. "golden rule" type stuff. it is said that karma is in existence to better the behavior and thust he lives of everyone it touches. supposedly, doing good will make others do good, and so on. paying it forward, so to speak.

my point is, if karma really existed and worked, and only enhanced the good that is done, then wtf is up with all the bad? if karma is there to make things better, and things are seemingly getting worse, then... does karma not exist?

Doing "good", is likely going to make the doer feel as good as whomever or whatever had the deed done for, or to them. This is a glimpse of Karma. Karma cannot be realized because the second you expect something from a deed you have done, it no longer becomes selfless. Selfless action is what moves you to the front of the karmic line, and when your there you can't know it, or you are transported to the rear.
So if your expecting good karma for yourself, ie you bought honey, you aint gonna get it....

i believe there are two types of Karma. There is the kind discribed above, like doing good deeds and banking them for next lives. Then there is the kind you experienced, INSTANT Karma. Like the guy said, Never say never and never say always. You got stung randomly, tho possibly because of the bee honey. But more likely it was random or a case of Never say Never. I NEVER got poison oak, used to cut poison oak round here. then one night after the husband cut brush, i woke with a hand print of poison oak on my side (he apparently didnt get all the oil off his hands before bed, thank god we did no more than go to sleep that night!) I am fifty and had never had poison oak, tho i had been stung by fifty bees once when i a kid. So, now bee stings dont hurt cept when they first sting. Go figure. Karma can not be proved, cept INSTANT karma is real noticable.

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Originally Posted by GreenDestiny

Think about all the corrupt, greedy, close-minded people that achieve great power and wealth.... and then all the good-hearted people that live in poverty or illness. Karma's not real, there's only laws of averages... and bell curves..... stuff like that.

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So true!

I dont believe in karma because of this very reason! Its nice to believe that the dude who stole my plants is gonna get his but in all likelihood it wont happen. Sure something bad is gonna happen to him sometime in his life but is this going to be in direct result to what he did to me?

My belief is that positive people with positive attitudes are usually going to have a more positive day (and are most likely going to stay out of trouble). Negative people are going to be much more likely to get in trouble or do something stupid.

For example the guy who stole my plants. If he is willing to steal my plants then of course he would do it to someone else and eventually someone will see him and beat his stupid ass! Or he will get caught with lots of pot and go to jail. People who make crazy decisions are more likely to do bad things and then get in trouble. This goes both ways. Someone who does a lot of good for people is more likely to get good in return than the asshole taking everybodyâ??s plants! Get it?

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Originally Posted by allrollsin21

Doing "good", is likely going to make the doer feel as good as whomever or whatever had the deed done for, or to them. This is a glimpse of Karma. Karma cannot be realized because the second you expect something from a deed you have done, it no longer becomes selfless. Selfless action is what moves you to the front of the karmic line, and when your there you can't know it, or you are transported to the rear.
So if your expecting good karma for yourself, ie you bought honey, you aint gonna get it....

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wow... damn, now I finally understand the real meaning of the story about the tree of knowledge in the garden of Eden.... it wasn't about "oh shit I'm naked and ashamed!" it's more like "hey I can think for myself now, oh shit I see I have tons of problems now too!"

If ignorance is bliss, then all events are relatively meaningless and unextraordinary.
The opposite means that we go nuts trying to decipher the inner workings of why good and bad things happen. It's maddening to understand karma.

great insight guys! Yeah I know it was a ironic coincidence.....but jason lee came to mind when it happened. Instant karma!! haha. My problem with the idea of karma is that my whole life has been nothing but bad luck. Im not sad or upset about it. I thought i was crazy for a long time until my friends and GF started to say that without bad luck i would have none at all. Everyone kepts telling me to write a book! So, if karma exists was i really really bad in a past life or going to be living large in the next. Why do I have horrible event after horrible event happen to me.... most of the time outa my control! I think i would rather believe its just shitty coincidence than some cosmic thing hating on me.

that bee stung you, that bee is probably now dead. you were good to bees, said bee fucked you, said bee is now dead. works for me.

its all in how you look at it.

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Originally Posted by theforthdrive

jason lee came to mind when it happened.

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Jason Lee as in glass artist extraordinaire? Or someone else?

It seems that in the Western world, people seem to tie up the idea of karma with sin and judgment all meted out by some divine being or force. Some branches of Hinduism look at karma this way but overall they do not, nor does Buddhism. Karma translates as 'deed' or 'act.' It refers to the principle of cause and effect. As has been said, you reap what you sow. Your actions will determine how others will treat you. Your actions now will determine how your future plays out. The actual 'fruit' or 'result' of one's actions is actually called vipaka.

Cause and effect. If I were to develop lung cancer due to being a smoker:smoking is my karma(cause) and lung cancer is my vipaka(effect). It's not a punishment, it's a natural consequence.

We already have a couple supreme forces to mete out justice...God and Santa Claus. Why turn karma into another?

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Originally Posted by mmjnoob

The actual 'fruit' or 'result' of one's actions is actually called vipaka.

Cause and effect. If I were to develop lung cancer due to being a smoker:smoking is my karma(cause) and lung cancer is my vipaka(effect). It's not a punishment, it's a natural consequence.

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so, if my life overall has been very unbalanced and it just happens to be negative... what is the cause and effect? Im not dilusional, there is no way my bad deeds in life equal the bad effects Ive had. furthermore, the love that Ive spread has never been repayed.... or balanced!


No this jason lee....in the earl show he talked about instant karma. He wins the lottery and is the hit by a drive the next moment! LOL!

Jason Lee (entertainer) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

karma cannot not exist:

gravity is karmatic. fire = burn = karma at work. blade+skin=cut and bleed is an equasion that owes it's success to karma.

the fact that i am posting on this board is a purely karmatic experience.

hey forthdrive i am in no way telling you that you've lived the most wonderfully fortunate life, but c'mon.
"furthermore, the love that Ive spread has never been repayed.... or balanced!"

You mention friends and a girlfriend. You obviously have internet access, or the money to rent it, an education, and have discovered and use one of the worlds most significantly useful plants. I just think its all relative. If your waiting to win an award for your deeds, it may be a while. The gift in giving is having given, its being taught that the feeling of self worth you have after giving is meaningless, and its learning that nobody is entitled to anything more than anyone else. It sounds like people do in fact love you. you are blessed by mother earth. :thumbsup:

It sounds like you have had some real shitty things happen to you. You are able to sit here after the fact and question Karma and why these things have happened. In doing so you have separated yourself from these things, and that is beautiful and very FORTUNATE!! :jointsmile:

truly words of wisdom.
do not worry about the rules of engagement, those dont matter till you're dead and gone, just do your best to be a good person, that is all.

if the rules truly mattered, they would be unbreakable. therefore the only rules that matter are the laws od physics; what you can do with your body is always and forever within the rules of engagement. use that to help others.

Karma in the sense that most people think of it now, even in some forms of Buddhism, isn't what it originally meant. The source of the idea of Karma, the Hindu Vedas, show that Karma started out life as simply meaning that if you do bad things you will become a bad person, good things a good person. There were no allusions to past lives or carrying Karma forward with you, that came much later.

MelT

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Originally Posted by MelT

Karma in the sense that most people think of it now, even in some forms of Buddhism, isn't what it originally meant. The source of the idea of Karma, the Hindu Vedas, show that Karma started out life as simply meaning that if you do bad things you will become a bad person, good things a good person. There were no allusions to past lives or carrying Karma forward with you, that came much later.

MelT

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Airplanes in the sense that most people think of it now isnt what airplanes were originally menat for.

what's your point?


it sounds as though you are insinuating that spirituality and/or mysticism hasnt evolved since it's original conception?

stoned? ;)

What he said did allude to its evolution. What it is now isn't what it started out to be.

It's all imaginary anyways.

yeah look at dynamite! tree stump remover not any more! :stoned:

I don't believe in Karma. Coincidences yes, karma no. It's just like the term "fate".

Hoopla I tell you! HOOPLA!

free will is our fate

existence is an oxymoron

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Originally Posted by rebgirl420

I don't believe in Karma. Coincidences yes, karma no. It's just like the term "fate".

Hoopla I tell you! HOOPLA!

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lol that's funny, i dont believe coincedences are ever even JUST a coincedence.

i believe that coincedences are only as coincidential as the observer is ignorant of the circumstances behind the so called coincedence.

that was a mouthfull...

anyways, i believe that fate is the result of physics, cause and effect, stick your hand in the fire and your fate is going to be that your hand will get burnt.

Destiny is a series of fates strung together forming an impenetrable scenario, for example, if someone rigged the next election for a specific outcome, the outcome would therefore be destiny.

each rigging is a single fate intertwining together to form the whole scenario.



Karma is related to awareness and information... karma is how other people treat you based on what they know about you.

but unlike fate and destiny, karma keeps on keeping on, even after the fates and destinies have been fulfilled.


Karma is the ripple itself, destiny is the path of the ripple, fate is the trigger, the stone that is cast into the water to form the ripples.



just by posting this message i am affecting all who read it, that is the fate this message has.

those who act on the message are contributing to it's destiny.


and everyone who has an opinion of this message is contributing the respective karma to it, good or bad. :wtf:

:cool::D

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Originally Posted by theforthdrive

so, if my life overall has been very unbalanced and it just happens to be negative... what is the cause and effect? Im not dilusional, there is no way my bad deeds in life equal the bad effects Ive had. furthermore, the love that Ive spread has never been repayed.... or balanced!


No this jason lee....in the earl show he talked about instant karma. He wins the lottery and is the hit by a drive the next moment! LOL!

Jason Lee (entertainer) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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It's not so much about being rewarded and punished for deeds as just natural consequences. Karma is a law of action-reaction. Karma is the action. Vipaka reaction. It's an objective force, not one of justice like the Judeo-Christian God.

You don't have Karma, you make it. Karma is your action. What happens to you as a result is called something different.

If I take the blue pill I'll dance all night, the red one, pass out. If I choose Harvard, I'll experience a different future than if I chose Yale. If you screw someone over, likely the way they treat you in the future likely will be different than if you hadn't.

And as Melt pointed out, your deeds will effect who you become as a person. Bad habits are easy to develop if you're doing bad things. All of your own volition. No Supreme force behind it. It just Is. Like gravity.

whoa, this got deep! :stoned:

First of all, congrats for having a good enough day to get out and do something! Them good days get fewer and farer in between! Glad you got out and had some fun! A day to remember!

That bee gave up its' little itty bitty life to tell you something!

You lied when you said you 'liked bees!' He is trying to tell you to stop lying to be liked, you are likeable! Kissing up to someone by saying you like their manufacturing tools.probably makes no difference to the bee keeper if you like bees or not. It is the honey and he needed the money. A transaction, nothing big about that.

What goes around, comes around! If some people need that to be a responsible 'good' person, then use it. Whatever works!

If it is the FIRST BEE sting, watch out for the second! It is extremely possible that the second bite will be the sting you are allergic to (in a medical sense). It is infrequent but not impossible that you will have a reaction to the first exposure. So, if u get stung again with a reaction, think karma.

I love Earl-Jason! I recall the bee episode, it was funny as hell. So, you have a good sense of humor! You need it, if you are already talking about a "good day" of health.

Believing in karma is like believing in God! An individual thing.

On that note, I wish you ....more 'good days'! And a few for me! pr:stoned::stoned:

Thank you.... Honestly, I do like bees! but mainly because I know how important they are to pollinating everything. Even after the sting I am still less weary of bees than humans!

all i know is that karma can be complicated, its not as simple as u think.

its not always apple vs apple in karma issues if u believe in it at all.

all i know is that what goes around comes around, now u may make some1 your guest on monday and 2 weeks later an officer can give u a warning instead of a 100% ticket that he has the right to give u... u see what im sayin?

karma to me doesnt have certain "time" or "currency" maybe u had hurt some1 with your word earlier in the day or a long time b4 then, n u got hit by a bee for it... i dont know how to explain it better and i cannot find out the cause or -action that led to such reaction of nature to u- but all i know is that karma is a transaction, sometimes u have to suffer for a longtime only to be compensated after that long while with a bigger reward. neither the suffering nor the reward were under your control by any means

or maybe this was the initiation of what i call "karma transaction" and u r yet to pay your part, so far the bee did his part must see whats next, maybe u hurt a loved one unwatnetdly in future or it can be anything not necessarily hurting some1... i mean karma is kinda like a weed trip, its in YOUR mind and only once fully taken place u may be able to explain it for yourself or others and still it may not make sense to them...

its really hard to open it up more than this for me, but i think i can rest my case and if u r ever to understand the issue, u must be able to get a general idea of what i mean.

a similar example for me:

i luv weed by all accounts
i have smoked and adored it for the past 10 years or so of my life
after all this time 1.5 years ago i smoked one of the best buds ever and instead of getting hy for the 1st time in my 20 and somethin years of life i got a panic attack out of nowhere which landed me in hospital (i thought i will die of heart attack) and gave me a $4000 bill that i cant even get a penny of it from my insurnace since i was taken to hospital high as shit and had THC pouring in my vains... can i blame karma? i couldnt have possibly done anything to deserve this... sometimes karma is a long term thing, maybe the exchange is for a lesson to be learned or whatever... really i cant go into it any better!

oh my..ass first into your neck? did he leave skid marks?

things are not sequential. good does not lead to good nor bad to bad.