Convo with a cop.

I recently had to call the old bill because my neighbour (girl) came to ask for shelter from her retarded bf who had decided to use her as a punchbag.
I would've prefered to have "spoken" :D to him myself but she didn't want that , she just wanted me to call the law.
When they arrived one of the cops interviewed her and I started a conversation with his female co-worker. It was interesting to hear her take on the current cannabis laws and the goverments attitude to the research done into medical use.
I didn't feel the need to be cagey or to lie and I explained my history and experiences of different drugs , I could see that she was interested in both sides of the argument and had an open mind.
When they were done I thanked them for thier time and they went on thier way.
I have to say that even though the circumstances that brought about the meeting were pretty dire , I did enjoy talking with an agent of the law with the ability to think for themselves.


BTW
After all that my stupid neighbour forgave her retarded OH and took him back.:wtf::wtf::wtf:

Very nice.

But I'm curious...how did you guys get on the topic of cannabis?

And I'd love to know what a leo's personal take on all of it as well......

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sir Bliss

Very nice.

But I'm curious...how did you guys get on the topic of cannabis?

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I asked for her thoughts on the recent news that the labour party was going to reclassify ganja.

I found we agreed on a lot.
For some people cannabis can have a negative effect , which really applies to all drugs including booze.
For those who can benefit from medicinal use it should be researched properly and the goverment should listen to expert information instead of public opinion.
For those who wish to use it as a recreational drug it should be avaiable in licensed premises for over 18s and street dealers should be prosecuted more harshly.

I am the most open and honest toker you could wish to meet , I don't ever hide it and I couldn't give a flying fuck what anyone thinks of me.
If I hide what I think or what I do then it's like I have something to be ashamed of and I never feel shame.:D

You'll never see me talking to the popo's about cannabis. No matter how cool I think they are. They would have to be a childhood friend or relative.

You never know when it's going to come back and bite you in the butt. Then again I live in a not so cannabis friendly city. So my paranoia's may be unwarranted wherever you are.

:hippy:

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Originally Posted by psychocat

If I hide what I think or what I do then it's like I have something to be ashamed of and I never feel shame.:D

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I don't consider it hiding. I consider it protecting yourself. Which there is no shame in ensuring that police have no reason to suspect you of anything.

Safety above all else.. that includes making sure you stay out of jail :) :jointsmile:

Prison doesn't scare me.
Apart from the fact that we have very lenient sentences in the UK I have spent time behind bars for my beliefs and have no regrets.
I have no problem talking to anyone and can judge wether it is prudent to continue with a conversation.
Since cannabis is still illegal in the UK it could be a problem to admit you toke to a copper but I really don't care .
As long as they only ever find enough for percy (personal use) I will only ever face light sentences.

If you don't take a stand and converse with people in an adult and intelligent way then the stoner stereotype will continue to be what people believe.

Lazy ... I think not , I have worked since I was 14 when I set up my first business as a window cleaner (ladder and a bucket needed) . I have to admit due to lack of funds my ladder was "borrowed" :D from a nearby building site.

Good for nothing ... Once more I have to say WRONG ! I have many skills built up over 30 + years of working.

Criminal .... Okay so I have broken a few laws.

We can't win hearts and minds if we never fight for our cause.

When I was arrested for possession I spent the entirety of the time trying to have an actual discussion with the officer.

In the end, it came down to this:

Her: "So, you must be really philosophical."
Me: "Oh, yes, I feel that there is no reality but that of philosophy."
Her: "Wow... We're different. I see everything in black and white. I'm not that smart, if I were I sure wouldn't be working here."


I didn't say it, but this signaled to me a serious problem in US law enforcement. Why did this cop feel like her job shouldn't require philosophical thought, or thought in general?

See this thread I started on officer.com

Morality - Police Forums & Law Enforcement Forums @ Officer.com

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Originally Posted by psychocat

Prison doesn't scare me.

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Well I guess that's good but that wasn't really the point I was trying to make. I was saying if you can do something as small as.. oh let's say not say anything to people you don't know.. then you drastically reduce the chance or possibility that you may get caught and go to jail.

In that regard there is no shame in simply keeping your trap shut. There are certain times and places for Activism.

Quote:

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Apart from the fact that we have very lenient sentences in the UK I have spent time behind bars for my beliefs and have no regrets.
I have no problem talking to anyone and can judge wether it is prudent to continue with a conversation.
Since cannabis is still illegal in the UK it could be a problem to admit you toke to a copper but I really don't care .

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This seems like a defeatest attitude and I hope no one here decides to follow your foot steps after reading your post. I sincerely commend you for being a proud toker and regret free from the consequences of illegal activity, but I can't say I am impressed with the fact that you've been caught. I'm sure there were circumstances surrounding the situation that may have worsened your case but if this were me I would try to avoid going back.

Life outside of jail/prison is undoubtedly better. You get freedoms, money, a job, a place to live... etc etc. Why risk all that by flapping your lips to a copper, judge or even a stranger. All the other person has to do is open their mouth about you to someone else and then it can start a chain reaction.

I believe in supporting cannabis but only amongst people whom I've gotten to know a bit and whom I think I can have a sincere open debate about it. A cop would be the last person on my list to try to debate this with. Even if that cop is cool it doesn't mean that another cop might find out somehow and start keeping an eye on you. This is only really an issue if you're growing. They tend to not bother small fry smokers who are toking in their own home.

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As long as they only ever find enough for percy (personal use) I will only ever face light sentences.

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Why face sentences at all? Keeping your mouth shut surprisingly reduces a lot of the ability for the courts to prosecute you... even if you do get caught, if you don't talk.. you will walk.

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If you don't take a stand and converse with people in an adult and intelligent way then the stoner stereotype will continue to be what people believe.

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I agree, but there is an old saying/cliche "Choose your fights wisely". What I mean by this is that yes.. you do need to take a stand and converse with people in an intelligent matter. At the same time you need to protect your own interests and determine if you feel you can turn the person you're debating with to become sympathetic for our cause.

I rarely discuss cannabis with people who are staunchly conservative.

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Lazy ... I think not , I have worked since I was 14 when I set up my first business as a window cleaner (ladder and a bucket needed) . I have to admit due to lack of funds my ladder was "borrowed" :D from a nearby building site.

Good for nothing ... Once more I have to say WRONG ! I have many skills built up over 30 + years of working.

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Who called you lazy? I'm sure you bust your ass making money like many other people on this board. :thumbsup:
Criminal .... Okay so I have broken a few laws.

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We can't win hearts and minds if we never fight for our cause.

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We cant win hearts and minds if we're behind bars :hippy:


ps: I understand where you're coming from. I just hate to see any of my favorite canna dot com people leave themselves vulnerable.

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I rarely discuss cannabis with people who are staunchly conservative.

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What's the point of discussion if you're only doing it with people who agree with you?

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Originally Posted by TurnyBright

What's the point of discussion if you're only doing it with people who agree with you?

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Did I say I only discussed it with people who agree with me?

In politics the key is to win undecided voters. The coined term swing-vote is fairly accurate because these are the people that you can sway either way. They are literally on the fence and should be our primary target when trying to advocate for cannabis. You don't want to go in directly into the enemies camp (in this case people who strongly oppose cannabis) to try to win them over. There is a 99% chance you won't succeed among that group/demographic.

The swing deciders are unsure and probably only believe it's bad because of decades of propaganda.

You are more likely to win these people over than you would be able to sway over a conservative. If you don't believe me then you just need to look at polling data. There is nothing wrong with choosing your fights.. and I choose to fights where I know I will be successful in battle. If I can convert 10 people who were on the fence.. as opposed to debating with 1 person who, historically that demographic has proven to be against us, then I've just made myself and the message I'm trying to represent 10 times stronger. Not only that but I've saved time and aggravation.

And again if you re-read that statement it says "I rarely discuss cannabis with people who are staunchly conservative.". The keyword here being rarely.

Until cannabis is more widely accepted you will look like a crazy person to most conservatives. Or they will think you just want to get high. There is the exception and you have to kind of feel them out. I've talked to some very conservative people about it, but for the most part during my "feeling out" process I determine it's a waste of time to discuss anything in detail with these people.

I always go straight for the ones who disagree with me the most, in any discussion. I try to ascertain where our beliefs differ and why, and expose the weaknesses and assumptions of their stance and the strengths and truths of my own.

When it comes to the issue of drug prohibition, I have spoken to countless people who vehemently believe that marijuana should be illegal, but when I push the argument and search deeply for the logical and moral grounds upon which they build their argument, I unfailingly force them to concede the argument.

Usually they won't admit that they've lost and change the subject or fall back onto pure opinion or religion, but I know that I've won, and if I want to really push the envelope (if i don't care if I look like an asshole, or don't care if this person respects me) I'll just rip apart their attempt to disguise their loss.

I never get into an argument I'm not certain I can win, and I don't argue my case to people who don't hold views contrary to my own.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TurnyBright

I always go straight for the ones who disagree with me the most, in any discussion. I try to ascertain where our beliefs differ and why, and expose the weaknesses and assumptions of their stance and the strengths and truths of my own.

When it comes to the issue of drug prohibition, I have spoken to countless people who vehemently believe that marijuana should be illegal, but when I push the argument and search deeply for the logical and moral grounds upon which they build their argument, I unfailingly force them to concede the argument.

Usually they won't admit that they've lost and change the subject or fall back onto pure opinion or religion, but I know that I've won, and if I want to really push the envelope (if i don't care if I look like an asshole, or don't care if this person respects me) I'll just rip apart their attempt to disguise their loss.

I never get into an argument I'm not certain I can win, and I don't argue my case to people who don't hold views contrary to my own.

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Maybe you don't understand... the point isn't to win an argument. The point is to win a person.

I don't care about winning or losing arguments so much as I care about converting people over to being sympathetic for the cannabis cause.

If all you're trying to do is win arguments then I'm afraid you're being counter productive. No one likes to feel like something is being forced onto them.

Have you ever opened the door after it's been knocked on? You go to open the door only to find a door to door salesman. You have no interest in his product or what he has to say. You initiate the conversation with this thought preformed in your mind. You keep telling him you're not interested but he keeps talking about his product because he genuinely believes it's the best product in the world. But you have no interest and you really hate his product.

Finally to get him to shut up you concede but tell him you don't have any money. He's happy that you at least think his product is good.. you on the other hand just lied to him and probably will be even more wary of the next door to door salesman that comes around.

Going into an 'arguement' against someone who doesn't want to hear it is very much the same way. All you're doing is strengthening their belief that cannabis is bad... without even saying anything. Go into it as an open debate to people who are curious or you know are on the fence. That's where we'll make the most progress.

On that cop saying she just sees everything black and white....
I recently found out that you don't even have to pass year 12 to be a cop!
I was fucking appalled. I mean, how are we supposed to have good cops when they don't have to pass english? I suppose the people who made this rule are trying to decrease the risk of having officers who can think for themselves.
I sense a grave time for all of society.

If I argue my case to those who hold opposite opinions, do you think I just let those who are on the fence tilt to the side away from me? By winning an argument against a lost soul, even if the one I was engaged with doesn't see the light, any "undecided" people who are witness to the exchange will be convinced far more thoroughly than if I ignored the adamantly anti-weed person and only spoke to them.

The undecided observer will have seen two sides of an issue, and watched one side triumph over the other. This leaves them with the power to decide for themselves which person was right, and chances are they'll choose the one who came off looking like the winner.

To turn your analogy back on you, when a salesman goes door to door, they're actively out there searching for people who are not presumptive that they don't want his product. They try to find people who are "on the fence" about the product and make the sale, and they certainly never show any of the arguments against their product. They're out there as propaganda-men to get whoever they can to believe what they're selling is 100% worth it, and what reputation do they have? Annoyances who most people will slam their doors on, because if you spend time listening to them, you'll probably get hooked by their claims and form an opinion without any balance.

The trick to legitimize a cause is to renege claims which are contrary to what is, in marijuana's case, the truth.

This thread was about talking to cops, anyway and most of them aren't on the fence when it comes to drug laws. I pride myself on my ability to get irrational people in a place where they have to run away to keep from admitting they've lost, and my ability to get rational (but misguided) people into a place where they must admit they have to rethink their position.

Quote:
I rarely discuss cannabis with people who are staunchly conservative.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TurnyBright

What's the point of discussion if you're only doing it with people who agree with you?

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First of all, this is an excellent thread, and this conversation is outstanding!!

daihashi, I know you said you "rarely" discuss cannabis with cons, well I feel privileged, as I am super duper to the umpteenth degree conservative!:D
I do understand what you are saying though, but you would be shocked at how much sense decriminalization makes to "real" conservatives. It's a shame there really aren't any true conservative leaders to speak of, that are invovled in politics anyway.:mad:

Woman or anyone who goes back to an abusive partner is stupid, they need to grow a pair. She's probably too scared to leave in case of retribution =/

We need more liberal, open minded, cops.

ironically, the law needs cops that can not think for themselves (for the most part).

If more cops had even half a soul, they'd be too lenient for offenses that they're supposed to crack down on. Working order must be maintained.

When a cop let's you go with a warning, that warning should be made official and documented with your signature verifying you received and understood the warning.

if the cops were more open minded and liberal, then how would they be able to enforce the laws that they're sworn to uphold? Either a law is broken or followed, and for a justice system to work right it must be viewed as "black and white" unless otherwise a court comes into play to more clearly define what ultimately must be followed or what stuff they can let slide on account of their biased personal feelings towards good citizens.

I'd never tell a cop about anything illegal I do, no matter how cool they are. They're trained to be mindless drones, and should be treated with the proper respect that a mindless drone deserves (which means you have to always be nice and cooperative, or else!). Never let your guard down and think for one second that they are human beings just like the rest of us: they voluntarily enforce oppressive laws upon us. Would you really trust a person like that with knowledge of your illegal habits? I wouldn't.

Their personal feelings do NOT supercede the law. remember that.

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Originally Posted by GreenDestiny

ironically, the law needs cops that can not think for themselves (for the most part).

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They don't get paid to be open minded, think, or do anything other than what they're told and "enforce" the laws. Most of em anyway...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SouthernGuerilla

They don't get paid to be open minded, think, or do anything other than what they're told and "enforce" the laws. Most of em anyway...

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Just because they don't get paid to do it doesn't mean they don't do it anyway, when I worked as a spraypainter I didn't get paid to smoke joints and play darts at work, but I still did it. :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by psychocat

Just because they don't get paid to do it doesn't mean they don't do it anyway, when I worked as a spraypainter I didn't get paid to smoke joints and play darts at work, but I still did it. :D

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You had flexible management, lucky bastard! :D

DEA FBI CIA!!! HEY We all were started the same way and they are all just humans... They are doing their job and you are not doing yours if you are broadcasting to them that you like weed because they like to lock people up... Some people are assholes some are cool same with DEA FBI CIA and local PD... I have a few friends that became COPS and Feds and they know I smoke and I do w/ them in the car if they do not like it stop hangging out!!! They are still around and I'm not in jail but they are childhood friends SHIT we all smoked together... They always say when they are done they want me to smoke them out... LOL SUXS FOR THEM THEY CAN NOT SMOKE!!! I tell them I'm a civilian and you have a badge but to them they are in it to do their 20 and get out no Super Hero's are my friends!!! HEY THEY JOINED THE CULT NOT ME!!!

I hope you made a plug for LEAP during your conversation. We need all the law enforcement officers involved with that org as possible. I would be interested to see what kind of reputation LEAP has within the law enforcement community.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Psilocybe Sativa

I hope you made a plug for LEAP during your conversation. We need all the law enforcement officers involved with that org as possible. I would be interested to see what kind of reputation LEAP has within the law enforcement community.

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Sorry for my ignorance but I've not heard of LEAP, what is it ?

Law Enforcement Against Prohibition

LEAP - Cops Say

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TurnyBright

Law Enforcement Against Prohibition

LEAP - Cops Say

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Interesting link my friend . TY
I will make time to read it .
I live in the UK and as far as I know there is nothing like that here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GreenDestiny

ironically, the law needs cops that can not think for themselves (for the most part).

If more cops had even half a soul, they'd be too lenient for offenses that they're supposed to crack down on. Working order must be maintained.

When a cop let's you go with a warning, that warning should be made official and documented with your signature verifying you received and understood the warning.

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Ok, bullshit!
Anyone with half a soul would put someone in jail for any serious crime i.e where there is a victim. Because they would feel for the victim and want to punish the person who did it.

Different views for different folks.

Start another thread to piss and moan how police officers should do their jobs and what laws they should turn a blind eye to.. :rolleyes:

It's a job like the military, they'll take any able bodied person and use them for something.

There's nothing anybody can do to you for speaking your mind :jointsmile:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tomm01

Ok, bullshit!
Anyone with half a soul would put someone in jail for any serious crime i.e where there is a victim. Because they would feel for the victim and want to punish the person who did it.

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There's a thin line between justice and retribution...
besides, we're talking about non-violent things; manufacture and posession of cannabis.

I'd expect cops to not be lenient for serious offenses, but when their personal feelings interfere with their job to police the lesser crimes the system starts to break down. They're sworn to uphold all laws to the best of their ability, and when they fail to do that, criminals will do as much as they can to push the envelope to get away with verbal warnings and such.

LEAP sounds like a good idea.... even if it seems like the biggest oxymoron I've ever heard of. There's still hope to unbrainwash the cops and the rest of the legal system!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by psychocat

Interesting link my friend . TY
I will make time to read it .
I live in the UK and as far as I know there is nothing like that here.

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Oh my bad. Yeah, leap is a law enforcement organization that opposes prohibition. They are gaining popularity in the states. In fact, they just got a new billboard posted in Omaha. It's pretty good.

http://www.leap.cc/cms/images/leap_billboard.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Psilocybe Sativa

Oh my bad. Yeah, leap is a law enforcement organization that opposes prohibition. They are gaining popularity in the states. In fact, they just got a new billboard posted in Omaha. It's pretty good.

http://www.leap.cc/cms/images/leap_billboard.jpg

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that's awesome!

I'm a bit surprized the mods haven't stepped in and closed this thread. But thats a good thing that we can be civil and mature about this...?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Reefer Rogue

Woman or anyone who goes back to an abusive partner is stupid, they need to grow a pair. She's probably too scared to leave in case of retribution =/

We need more liberal, open minded, cops.

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I agree. If she's stupid enough to back then she shouldn't be at all surprise when this happens again.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SouthernGuerilla

I'm a bit surprized the mods haven't stepped in and closed this thread. But thats a good thing that we can be civil and mature about this...?

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I don't understand why the mods would shut this thread as I see no reason to.
Nobody is being offensive.
I have found over the years that I am a good judge of situations and people , I am reasonably charming so I seem to be able to communicate with authority figures on a level beyond the childish argument of "I want it so it should be".
No battle is ever won without those prepared to make a stand. :jointsmile: