Defending Cannabis

I've been trying to defend the legalization of cannabis a lot lately. Yet no matter how many things I reveal to the non-believer, some of them refuse to change their mind. Well, most of them actually.

I'm defending it on another forum currently. Even though I have (with the help of others) dis-proven a lot of what the "brainwashed" (for lack of better terminology) people think, they continue to think the way they do as if they didn't even read what has been written out.

The same thing happened at work the other day. We got into talking about the government, which eventually turned to cannabis. So since I am such an advocate for the plant, It became a rather long debate. Yet everything that I pointed out about the plant, did not seem to sink into the non-believers head.

When it was all said and done, he still said that cannabis for medical purposes was a bunch of BS. He said that there is no way it could be as good as pharmaceuticals and the only reason anyone wants it legalized is so they can get high.

How often do all of you have to deal with such closed-minded people? It gets very frustrating to deal with. Especially when they make such ignorant statements like "it's a gateway drug".

Sometimes when someone mentions that we just want to legalize weed to get high. I respond with" And is that such a bad thing to want to lighten your mood and just be happy. Is there something wrong with that? People use all kind of substances to feel good. Cigarettes,coffee,liquor and others.

Just ask him "well why do people drink alcohol then?" because people are obviously drinking to get a buzz or to get drunk. Why is this acceptable as opposed to becoming intoxicated from cannabis? I find that using alcohol as a comparison really helps put things into perspective. Also many over the counter medications will get you high in large enough dosage and this is very dangerous. Point this out and how it really is something occuring among younger people.

How many people have died from cannabis compared to alcohol?

Really your angle of attack depends on the type of person you are talking to. Attack/Compare their bad/worst habits to cannabis use and it will become obvious that cannabis is really an innocent drug.

Anything like drinking, smoking, compulsive gambling, couch potato'ing, etc etc are all good candidates to argue against cannabis.

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Originally Posted by JaySin

he still said that cannabis for medical purposes was a bunch of BS. He said that there is no way it could be as good as pharmaceuticals and the only reason anyone wants it legalized is so they can get high.

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That's pretty sweet... how long has your friend been a Doctor? ;)

Those same people that swear Cannabis should be demonized and illegal, are the same people that will offer you an ice cold beer during a cookout... and probably not even stop you when you go to drive home later.
(I'm comfortable with stereotyping that :jointsmile:)

NOBODY has the justification to condemn Cannabis OR argue its' effectiveness/relevance in the medical field UNLESS:
-They are a doctor
-They are a scientist
-They are a patient who receives results from Cannabis
-They know a patient who receives results from Cannabis

Anyone else is simply talking out of their ass :stoned:

I mean, honestly, what other demographic can it be impossible to reason with... even when presented with testimony and science?
CHILDREN...... naive little children.

My suggestion... since you obviously hold a passion for the subject and a desire to shift the national perception of Cannabis... stop trying to persuade the ignorant. Spend your well thought energy on trying to appeal to the people that can actually DO something about toleration/legalization. Your stubborn friend, while a good practice subject, will just continue to frustrate you until they conquer their own personal demons and realize their misconceptions. This battle is going to be won in the courts and in the minds of the EDUCATED public. The rest of the idiots can just stand aside while the ADULTS come to an agreement that will stop prosecuting non-violent criminals for simply trying to seek symptom relief.

But yeah... government regulation has obviously limited supply to the scientific community, which has stalled most all effective studies on the subject of medical Cannabis.
In all honesty, your "friend/co-worker" that seems to think that he can side step years of thorough scientific study and announce that Cannabis holds ZERO medical use and should be illegal... well... to put it nicely...
He needs to SHUT THE FUCK UP! :thumbsup:

It doesn't bother me then anyone in particular sees things like he does. It just amazes me that some people can be so thick-headed on something. I know that it doesn't do much to help the cause to talk to people like him, but I try to educate as many people as possible on the subject. That way when the time comes, maybe there will be a few more people that realize the benefits and vote for cannabis instead of against it.

I feel that I was able to come up with very good points in return to anything he had to say bad about cannabis. It's just that he is so stuck on what the media tells him, that he wont change his views on it. He even used to be an avid smoker and I have toked with him on several occasions.

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Originally Posted by JaySin

He even used to be an avid smoker and I have toked with him on several occasions.

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I think this will help you understand this type of person:
Define: Idiot - Google Search
Define: Hypocrite - Google Search
Define: Asshole - Google Search
Urban Dictionary: Cock Blocker (replace reference to female human w/ Mary Jane :jointsmile:)
Define: Imbecile - Google Search
Define: Douche bag - Google Search

Ok... now I'm getting childish, but you get the point. :jointsmile:

Enter Ignoramous, begins bitching about cannabis.

Me: Do you drink energy drinks, coffee, or alcohol? Eat fast food? Take prescription anti-depressants or pain killers, sleep medicines, aspirin etc? Smoke cigarettes, any other forms of nicotine? Give your cat catnip? Rambles on...

I usually tell people that they need to educate themselves and then cme back and talk to me.

i too have actually been thinking rather heavily into the reasons why MJ isnt legal, and i was thinking of some good reasons, that you don't hear so often, but still make a good point.

if you think about it, the "War on Drugs" has been a failure, the other drugs that are being targeted are more available than ever before, and MJ has been used atleast once by a "reported" 42% of US citizens, not to mention the many who have gone unnoticed due to fear of someone finding out.

and then not to mention, who decided that MJ was so bad, i realize that the law makers of the time made the law, but really, who decided that they were going to attack the most harmless of the psychoactive plants?

and not only that, but in a "free" country, why is there such a fear of doing everything, not to mention something that doesnt affect other people, they could make it illegal to use in public, that would remove the second hand smoke factor of it.

there are other positives to makeing MJ legal. If it were legal, then there would be a huge demand for said plant, requiring large scale growing practices, and no matter when, there would always be a demand, so growing would be a very good thing for the environment in the sense that increased growing is better for the environment, kinda like planting christmas trees, they grow until they are mature, then cut, and replanted. Growing plants release more oxygen than mature plants, and MJ plants would be constantly grown, creating an oxygen rich atmosphere again, and help to defer the CO2 levels.

also, the plant is completly useable. The buds can be smoked, the fibers used for paper, rope, pretty much anything hemp, and the unused portions of fiber and plant material can be composted, which can then be remixed back into the soil foundations for the plants, a sort of never-ending cycle of nutrients, the ultimate recycler, everything is used, and reused, eternally if given the proper conditions.

less crime around MJ itself, you would no longer have to deal with dealers who may deal other drugs, and may be harmful to communties, taking power out of their hands.

taxation on anything relating to hemp, or MJ, not a large tax, but an exise tax none-the-less, would bring billions into the federal reserves, and we could finally buy the US back from China.

and if MJ is legal, prisons are less crowded, the legal system is freed up for real legal cases, all the time spent creating drug legislation for MJ would be better used for fixing real problems like social security, or universal healthcare.

and if everyone is high, legally, then people will be calmer, police would be more respected, i really only hate police due to their ignorance, some are cool, but agreeing to uphold the law, whether some do or dont, its not a form of protest for a cop not to bust you, even if a cop doesnt arrest you it is still illegal, and you could still get in trouble, a terrible waste of valuable resources that we dont really have right now.

and more, im done my rant. And getting high is what the medicine is, just like how you cant truely explain to someone who has never been high what being high is like, you cant explain how getting high is medicine until you try it for that purpose, because its the "high" feeling that eases the pain, relaxes us, stimulates appitie, and a multitude of discovered and undiscovered uses. Not to mention pure fun, it is a hobby of mine, and i am proud to say that i smoke for fun, and it helps me relax, i use it for a dual purpose, and i dont feel i should be prosecuted any different no matter what context i use it for.

that was my 420th post above this, it was a good one too.

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Originally Posted by jimmy8778

who decided that MJ was so bad, i realize that the law makers of the time made the law, but really, who decided that they were going to attack the most harmless of the psychoactive plants?

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See:
Harry Anslinger - Google Search

It is a sad story of a desperate man... afraid that his future was going nowhere due to the repeal of alcohol prohibition.

(coughs*ASSHOLE*;))

Well... one of the hardest things in this world is to make someone change its own views... nobody, NOBODY likes to be proven wrong, and most people will do anything to assure themselves that they are right and you (or anybody else) is wrong... so, most of time trying to make someone change its views is just a waste of time.
Just think this way: how hard would be to someone convince you that youre wrong about something you think youre right?

I would listen to them and if they were in fact correct, then I would willingly accept that I was wrong. I'd rather be smart than ignorant. It's just too bad all people aren't like that.

I love to be proven wrong on anything. It's one of the best forms of education for me.

The only time I get cornered when talking about pro-cannabis issues is: in the end it is still illegal and that I should avoid it so that I don't get into trouble with the law and have my life ruined by our wonderful legal system. Or to lose a great job because I might test positive. Or, rely on all other natural plants and stuff for medicine that are still legal.

Those are the only arguments I find hard to win. Actually it's not an argument, it's just mutual agreement of what the current legal status is. I don't live in a medical state so I'm SOL. Until Tennessee adopts a medical plan, or if I move to a state that already has one, it seems I have to obey the laws and find other things that will work (which are too weak or just placebos).

To use what we know is the best natural medicine we must break federal law, and state law where it still exists. If we're willing to cross the line into criminal activities, what's to stop us from doing anything else that is illegal to benefit our health? Using weed makes us a potential threat to the security of our nation. We're so lucky to have a government that wants to turn us into criminals instead of peaceful law-abiding natural medicine practitioners.... all at the tax payer's expense.

And if you're a tax payer, you're helping THEM criminalize us all. How funny that the law makes us hypocrites as well. Rock on!

^It's been said, but attack from an angle they can personally connect to.

Man ive been having the same convo. with my mom ever since she found out I smoke. I always try and point out the good things and always compare it to worse things....I often ask " Well would you rather me drink, shoot up, snort, or smoke trees?" and she gives me the same answer everytime, " I wouldnt have you do either, but...." then she just murmers off some words and doesnt say much after that. In our last convo about 2 nights ago I told my mom how much I smoke daily and she was shocked...she told me i was an addict, then I quickly disproved her, then she told me i couldnt stop cold turkey....told her I could, but im not going to becuase....

1. No trees = pain in the legs and wrist.
2. I get extremely jittery at work and I HATE IT, cant focus straight
3. I love it to much to stop.

after stating facts and what not She told me I should cut back...Ive been thinkin about doing it for the longest time now, since my highs are mostly mellow now a days compared to my virgin lung days....but thats another story, point is once a day after is what im sticking to.


My Mom and I are extremely open about alot of things, She and I both have RA, rheumatoid arthritis for those who dont know, and I tell her everytime we have one of these " Why do you smoke so much" convos. that ever since I started smoking the pain in my knees as well as my wrist is non existant ( it hasnt come back since mid Nov.) I always suggest to her that she should try it, She told me that she wouldnt smoke it, I told her Id bake a cake for her yet she still doesnt want to....yet!! hazza. In the end though my mom says I still view your "trees" as a drug, I just simply nod my head and say I know, but your views and mines are diff. and she says yea, true but im still your mom lol.

:BTW, My mom is the only person in the world who can tell me to stop smoking, if she were to say :insert name here: stop, I would, I have nothing but respect for my mom plus ima mommas boy lol.:

But I def. understand were your coming from, I have a super duper tree loving i know everything, becuase i took botany in highschool but have no degree hortaculturalist, at work and like the rest of us here Im extremely passionate about my subject, but no matter how much I try and cram into our 10 min. convo's, I feel like throwing stuff her way after the first 8min., She always thinks shes right, at one point i just said F8CK your High School diploma Im the real hortaculturalist here and walked out the room lol, what proceeded after words is a work related event I shall not discuss here. I actually do work with alot of people who support Med. Marj and I also know plenty of people that come into the city on med. marj related business, so its always cool to talk and actually learn more, I live in the City of Hempfest everyone is proactive about it, if your not YOU WILL BE.

I agree with Daihashi, always compare the trees to worser things, not just to make them look better but because its the truth...lol my moms never argued with the charts, and yea man the ignaramuses dont need to be convinced about anything there just idiots who will die off with the rest of the dinosaurs living in the past, focus on the national side like metal said, forget the dinos lol. Im out.

It mostly has to do with the way the typical, Government obeying American was brought up. The way our culture is is pretty much laying down everything we might like, but following based on what our parents say. We find something we enjoy, and we are given every opportunity to continue to seek to enjoy it. We think up a great idea, and we are usually always fully supported. But when confronted with something socially taboo, we are shunned away from it at all costs. Most of us come from those typical Americans, who come from one-sided thinking, very close-minded people. These people are those who grew up in a social enviroment that has it's reward system on hyperdrive; enjoy anything you wish to unlimited levels, just stay away from THIS, dont do THIS. EVERYTHING else is OK. To these close-minded people, change is not needed. They have lived their entire lives staying away, not even trying it, and if they did, felt too guilty to form their own solid decision. They, therefor, will never experience the trial and possible error, the critique, the possible confrontation involved with taking a stance with your opinion, because the opinion you are comfortable with has been the general stance of the population for decades. This hardship is what makes letting your stance be known rewarding, and the lack thereof is the reason why many people cannot truly appreciate the open-mindedness of today's youth. We give our next generation what we didn't have, and this generation's gift is the ability to say "Why Not?", as this past generation was shunned from doing so many times...


If I'm incoherent, I apologize. You all already know ;)

i feel that most people dont like it because it is illegal, or they have tried it and didnt like it, but then again, those people arent automatically stuck to thinking it should be illegal. But many people dont like it because its illegal, so one time when we were actually just discussing it, not debating it, i asked one of my friends why they dont like it, and they said because it is illegal. Then i just asked them another question, i said, what if it was illegal? They had no answer, they said they still wouldnt like it, when i asked why, they said cause it was illegal.

That was the most confused, i had ever been, and im the one who smokes, not her. But that is the same backwards logic used by most of the people who feel that it is bad, and should be illegal. they cant even imagine a world where it would be legal, so they cant even consider it so. And the sad part about it is the fact that those people will never be changed, it has just been imposed on them so much that they arent even open minded people.

as much as i care about this person, and all the others, i feel that people so closed to opinion serve no purpose on this earth but as filler. She is a good artist, but at what cost, to be judgemental, and close-minded. It really sucks that i could never convince her even that it may be good, to her, it was just stuck as something bad.

Yet she drinks while on anit-psychotics underage, that was what really confused me, but not wanting an argument and accepting the stubborn-ness, because i am accepting of people, i decided not to throw that in her face.

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Originally Posted by jimmy8778

i feel that most people dont like it because it is illegal, or they have tried it and didnt like it, but then again, those people arent automatically stuck to thinking it should be illegal.

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My brother-in-law has never smoked and plans not to, but he agrees that it should be legal and realizes how its not really that bad :thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Unknownfigure

It mostly has to do with the way the typical, Government obeying American was brought up. The way our culture is is pretty much laying down everything we might like, but following based on what our parents say. We find something we enjoy, and we are given every opportunity to continue to seek to enjoy it. We think up a great idea, and we are usually always fully supported. But when confronted with something socially taboo, we are shunned away from it at all costs.

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I couldnt have said it better myself.

oh, yeah, i never mean anything as blanket statements, even people who have smoke think that it should be illegal. but to save time and energy i make them, only hoping that people will understand that nothing, and i mean nothing is 100%.

but sorry for any confusion, they may cause.

It's usually impossible to convince someone it should be legal.


But it's very easy to get someone to realize they don't know why it is illegal.

i feel that before you start anytype of discussion/debate, you should first ask the question if they know why it is legal. Then you should tell them all your facts, the whole time, continually asking them why they think it could be illegal, maybe you can jog their memory to thinking some crazy excuse as to why they think it should be, each time chopping down their answer to there is no reason for it to be illegal.

When your done, they will still believe that it should be illegal, but what else is new, atleast you got someone started as to how it should be thought of, maybe they will do some research of their own and decide it should be legal.

It is easier to reverse the argument and ask why any Americans freedom should be impinged for use of a plant used in industry or for personal use, be it medical or pleasure.

Take the offence not the defence.

Anslinger.

Son in law to Sec Treas Morgan (Morgan bank partner with Dupont who just got the German patent to nylon synthetics) was not "desperate." He was entrusted to keep hemp off the market for the 99-year patent life. Morgan created the department (bndd to dea) for that specific reason and kept it all in the family - as they always do.

I'd say that anyone, regardless of their family ties, that chooses to spearhead a War on Marijuana "The Devils Herb" :wtf:... and uses blatant propaganda, skewed medical testimony, and flat out lies to advance the career of himself and his family... is pretty damn desperate.

Desperate:
1 a: having lost hope b: giving no ground for hope
2 a: moved by despair b: involving or employing extreme measures in an attempt to escape defeat or frustration 3: suffering extreme need or anxiety
4: involving extreme danger or possible disaster
5: of extreme intensity
6: shocking, outrageous

Maybe that's just me though... :stoned:

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Originally Posted by Coelho

Well... one of the hardest things in this world is to make someone change its own views... nobody, NOBODY likes to be proven wrong, and most people will do anything to assure themselves that they are right and you (or anybody else) is wrong... so, most of time trying to make someone change its views is just a waste of time.
Just think this way: how hard would be to someone convince you that youre wrong about something you think youre right?

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The best way to close a mind to anything you are saying is to focus on proving the person wrong.
I find the best way to go about this is be armed with as much factual information as possible. Avoiding emotional arguments and build a case based on documented evidence from reliable sources. Respond with legitimate research rather than your opinion. It's much harder to dispute. Look at your job as one of educating rather than convincing.
I find economic reasons to be a good place to focus. I find that the type of people who oppose MMJ and legalization typically aren't too interested in compassion. They seem to care a great deal about the budget though.

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Originally Posted by JaySin

I've been trying to defend the legalization of cannabis a lot lately. Yet no matter how many things I reveal to the non-believer, some of them refuse to change their mind. Well, most of them actually.

I'm defending it on another forum currently. Even though I have (with the help of others) dis-proven a lot of what the "brainwashed" (for lack of better terminology) people think, they continue to think the way they do as if they didn't even read what has been written out.

The same thing happened at work the other day. We got into talking about the government, which eventually turned to cannabis. So since I am such an advocate for the plant, It became a rather long debate. Yet everything that I pointed out about the plant, did not seem to sink into the non-believers head.

When it was all said and done, he still said that cannabis for medical purposes was a bunch of BS. He said that there is no way it could be as good as pharmaceuticals and the only reason anyone wants it legalized is so they can get high.

How often do all of you have to deal with such closed-minded people? It gets very frustrating to deal with. Especially when they make such ignorant statements like "it's a gateway drug".

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Hey Jay, quick question. little off topic, are you also into cars? are you a member of a mustang messageboard? Someone on there uses your name and i was just curious if it was you.

A print out of "Granny Storm Crow's List?" Lots of medical studies- about 65+ pages depending on your printer. Take a look- the link's in my sig. :thumbsup:

I know he's going to say it's all fake! Well, I have it up at various sites- just in case you don't want your boss snooping around here! lol The "most innocent" place I have it on, is this brand-new, all MMJ site ;)

Granny Storm Crow's List- - Medical Marijuana Patient Forums

That way he can check and see that the URLs (and the studies) are REAL and working! (and I checked them all on July 28th, 2008- so let him pick and choose as he wills) If he can read all the titles and still be anti-MMJ, watch out for him- IMHO, he's insane! :wtf:

Granny:hippy: