Closet Grow one large (needs attn) and several seedlings (cfl/hps) - NEED HELP, pls

okay, so where do i start. well, lets see...we rescued the large plant from a friend of a fri...well, you get it. This was done shortly after, about five days to be exact, of setting up this new closet space. We also have 400watt HPS, several combos of nutes, hormones, etc..

I have a few questions about this space. It vents to the attic via a 23watt 6" fan with no duct attached. There are two fans in the room, one blowing slightly over the canopy of the hurting plant. The other fan is blowing in the area of the seedlings.

We have used many methods of germinating on these seedlings. Mostly straight to seedling soil or paper towel method worked best.

oh, p.s. the plant we rescued came out of a fox farm standard pot...with almost no root system. but the pot was very 'ghetto' so we replanted in almost the same space...a bit more and added some premix soil w/ perlite.

and p.s.s. is the perlite around the seedlings a good idea? can't hurt can it?

let the log begin...

:rasta:

a.http://i324.photobucket.com/albums/k...d/100_5266.jpg
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b.http://i324.photobucket.com/albums/k...d/100_5262.jpg
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c.hhttp://i324.photobucket.com/albums/k...d/100_5267.jpg

http://i324.photobucket.com/albums/k...d/100_5258.jpg
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http://i324.photobucket.com/albums/k...d/100_5259.jpg
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http://i324.photobucket.com/albums/k...100_5261-1.jpg


can I use any of these to bring her back to life?

http://i324.photobucket.com/albums/k...d/100_5250.jpg
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maybe you can diagnose from some of these pics...

http://i324.photobucket.com/albums/k...d/100_5269.jpg

this is the best we could do as far as getting it upright....notice a view of the lst from the previous owner.
http://i324.photobucket.com/albums/k.../edit-sick.jpg
this pic shows the yellow color and other poor health.
and the one below shows our best seedlings which are five days old planted to peat pellets and then to seedling mix on about day three. germinated in a variety of ways. we lost track of the best germ method but noticed that they all had almost the same result in our trials.
http://i324.photobucket.com/albums/k...d/100_5265.jpg

So far nice work:)

Ok the plant that you rescued looks good:) now just be careful not to over love her!!!!!

Just give her water till she starts to pick up or maybe add some Folora Nova Grow. Smallest recomended amount on bottle!!!!!! and let her be for a few days. She is very fragile right now and nutes may burn the surviving roots that is why I say maybe with the FNG.

Oh yeh when you water add enough water till it comes out the bottom holes, let her drain, then let her be.

BOL JG

anyone wanna take the time to tell me how to make thumbnails for future reference?

:thumbsup:

I've read around on this...but when would be a good time, in this situation, to add the compost tea in the pic above? I mean if this plant remains alive and thrives.

(p.s. what are trackbacks when posting? - like to direct to other maybe relevant posts)?

http://boards.cannabis.com/members/c...e-april-20.jpg

First, remember, I don't know nuttin' about this cannabis stuff except what I have read. I have read a lot, but I am sure it is no substitute for experience. However, I can apply knowledge of other plants to part of this and I have lots of experience with houseplants, gardening outdoors and growing vegetables indoors. I'm only a few weeks into my very first attempt at growing.

In my opinion, you have an excellent plant for taking some cuttings. It is very spindly and looks like it might have been in some so-so light. It also looks like it has not had a lot of air circulation because the stems look a bit weak. I think that if you flower it in its current condition, the stems will not be strong enough to hold it up.

So, if it was me, I would start taking some cuttings from the plant and rooting them. I would top the plant, and then select the other cuttings from many of those long, spindly side-shoots and try to give the plant a good solid core to grow around. I have read that you should not cut off more than 50% of the leaves at a time, so I would aim to cut back about half the leaves on that plant and root as many cuttings as you need. Your cuttings will produce much sooner than growing from seed.

I would then work on encouraging the stem to go more "up" by tying it to that stick you have a bit lower, a little at a time. Pull it in without breaking it, leave it for a couple of days, and then snug it up a little more. Get that "spine" of the plant strong enough to support the vegetation that will be regrowing from your cuttings, and your eventual flowers. I would use something soft like yarn or thicker string and don't pull it too tight, and not twist ties. Take your time and train it to straighten out. This will probably take a couple of weeks, and your cuttings will be rooted by then as a backup plan.

In my opinion, the plant just looks like it has not had the greatest light - the leaves look pale compared to other pics I have seen (and my own plants), although this could just be a slight overexposure in your pics. I would give it a small amount of high-nitrogen plant food because you are going to be trying to make it grow more vegetation, but don't go overboard with it. The Flora Micro in your pics has lots of N in it. A little dab will do ya, as they say.

Once you have the plant's stem straightened and strengthened in a couple of weeks or up to a month, it will probably be strong enough to flower. But, if it isn't, you can always use the cuttings to start something more, and you can use this as a mother plant.

Do you know if the plant was grown from a cutting with a verified sex or is it just a mystery right now? Someone here might be able to identify whether it is male or female if it has some pre-flowering but I sure can't. I'd hate for you to go to a huge effort to straighten it out and strengthen it and make clones only to discover it is an unwanted male plant. However, the practice would probably not hurt in the least - I would not mind a free plant to experiment on, so I would be less anxious about screwing up.

Anyway, get the light as close as you can without burning the plant (hold your hand where the leaves would be and if is too hot for your hand after 30 secs or so it is too hot for the plant). The closer the light the less the plant will try and stretch to reach it causing those large gaps between nodes.

A little patience and I think you can make it work...

Your mileage may vary, and more experienced growers may have other opinions...

well, it sounds as if we've both read all the rules of thumb so far.

i guess it really is just up to experience, trial/error, etc...anyshit, the large plant was from seed planted on 4/20/2008. I can't straighten it out completely because of the low stress training (lst) on the bottom few inches of the stem. i did notice when i transplanted that it didn't have a strong root system. so my idea is that it needs much more veg. i think i will take about 40% cutting from it and try to root them. (should i use a dome - greenhouse method?). i agree about the experience. i mean, i would like it to be female but this is just prepping me for the white lable 'white skunk' and some 'aurora indica' im patiently waiting on. i wanna have my chops down for sure in this room to make those boutique seeds a sucess.

guys, thanks for all the help. :rasta:

okay so i just found this out about the myco madness soluble formula that I have. (hell, I thought i had got something for growing mushrooms initially).

But i'm just wondering if in a day or two i should add this to my ph'd h20.
@ perhaps half the required amount. let me have some opinions...

I also have some of the ohter Humboldt Roots that the same company mentioned above mixes. Could this be a viable option for me right now...im just looking for proper health, not trying to be a nute happy grower, its just that i have several options as my friend gave up growing. and well, i ended up w/ his gear.

I hope the advanced guys make it over here becasue i am pretty new at this, having only grown bagseed. thanks in advance guys/gals...

Well, I don't think you have to make the stem perfectly straight - just stronger before you flower it. It looks like it has some thick strong spots in the pic, but it is hard to tell. It almost looks like someone was paying attention to it and then just stopped looking after it properly - I could be completely wrong, but I don't think the LST is supposed to result in quite that much of a bend, unless they were doing that around-the-pot thing to train it into a circle? If so, and if it was working, maybe just continuing that would work even better?

If not, I'd just give it lots of water for a few days to flush out salts since it has been going for so very long and is so spindly in places (just to make sure you are starting kind of clean). Then take some cuttings including topping it to force it to put a little energy into down low growth. Like I said, my experience with plants is just about everything BUT cannabis, but I've found that you can do some pretty extreme stuff to force a plant to grow up a frame or around something and considering the resilience I have seen in these plants I doubt they would be much different. Just don't actually BREAK the stem.

I'm not sure what Humbolt Roots would be exactly. I looked it up and it sounds like it could help a little, but it does say it can be used through the vegetative phase on the website so I doubt it would hurt, and could help. From what I have read here and other places, though, the way to encourage more rooting is to give it something like 6 hours of dark/rest time (18/6 cycle). No potions needed, just make sure the soil is hospitable to roots and give the plant dark time to grow them. When there is no light, the plant stops growing greenery and puts stored energy into making roots. I don't know what light cycle you are using but that could help if you are on a different cycle.

Also, I have another opinion that some may not agree with - but who cares if the plant is male or female? None of your other plants are going to be in flower at the same time at the moment, so you don't have to worry about it screwing up your girls. Practice on it, see what you can do to make it stronger. Flower it, and if it is a male, you can still use it. It won't be as strong, maybe, but you could extract the good stuff with oil to make some butter, or alcohol to make a tincture. I've used a tincture made by a friend before and it worked to alleviate some of my issues. Males are more of an inconvenience for those trying to avoid fertilizing their females than they are "bad" if grown alone. Look at it as a learning opportunity no matter what sex it is. Obviously, the only drawback of a male would be if you make clones and the clones end up ready to flower about when your seeds are ready and then you'd want to keep them separate. But hey, 50/50 chance at worst that it is female, and if it is you'd have all sorts of little plants that you know exactly what you are getting. Unless your seeds are feminized, you could be dealing with a couple of males there, too.

Maybe my perspective on males is different because I am using my doses only sparingly to relieve pain and not in a more recreational way and therefore getting a "good high" isn't super critical, so once again, your mileage may vary.

All of this is just what I would do in this hypothetical situation and not from actually doing it. But, keep talking in the thread and someone will show up and share their experience.

Watch out not to voerwater those seedlings. With peat pucks, you aren't supposed to put the puck in soil until you actually see roots, and then, you should shred up the net thing because it impedes root growth. Your seedling area looks too wet; space those pots apart from each other to dry out better and add more light over them if you can.

The big plant is suffering from its tiny root system, and also needs more light. It will rebound; there's nothing SERIOUSLY wrong with it. Go ral easy on the ferts for now, and don't use any on the seedlings!!

Thank you so much stinky!
I was hoping you would make it to this thred.

(thanks to you too pottybear, hope you get to try yr hand at a cann grow sometime, seems like you know yr stuff)

Stinky: Is it okay to take the peat patties out of the pots until they take root or will this shock them more than it will help at this point?

Im going no nutes for the next five days or so, on everything.
Ill post pics of any new progress.

Oh, and stinky...is there a help thred about making thumbnail pics in my posts?;)

You may need to wait till you have 50 posts. otherwise when you post a reply go to advanced, and down lower "manage attachments", another page will open where you can browse or import pics.

sweet. thanks, ill try that next time.

okay, so heres whats been done. took stinkys advice about adding light. also, took some clippings from the rescued plant.

added two more 4' 40watt t8's.
added 5 23watt 6500k cfl's
total: four 4' 40watt t8's + 8 23watt 6500k cfl's

large plant watered with ph'd h20.
took three cuttings from above the lst'd nodes.
transplanted the cuttings to a greenhouse straight to seedling soil via root hormone (powder).

now the clones are covered with 2x23w cfl's.

pics coming soon...

okay, here is a good shot of a couple big issues... one being the root system above the soil line and the other being that there is some trauma to the stem where it makes its first turn from the lst (now removed). http://boards.cannabis.com/members/c...3-100-5270.jpg

okay, here is a shot of the leaf color
followed by the dry browness of one or two leaves.
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/c...5-100-5272.jpg
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/c...4-100-5271.jpg

any ideas?
we just went from shocked to straight ph'd h20 and more light....

this is what we've done to the room...
the added light specifically and the clone tray/greenhouse.
any pointers appreciated. :thumbsup:

http://boards.cannabis.com/members/c...7-100-5274.jpg
(they just got water)
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/c...6-100-5273.jpg

here is the gen info, climate, etc.
followed by the seedlings. (all bag seed for practice, new to indoor).
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/c...9-100-5280.jpg
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/c...0-100-5278.jpg
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/c...1-100-5277.jpg

:D

Too much light on the clones. If they are trying to grow LEAVES, they won't be growing ROOTS, and they will lose a lot of moisture through transpiration.

Stem trauma- it'll heal; keep your humidity down so it doesn't rot.
Roots- No biggie. It happens. Roots above the soil will even grow bark eventually. It's the fresh roots that are actively taking up juice that need to stay in the dark at all times.

Read the link in my siggy in regards to cloning tips.

Thanks for the critique stinky. i definitely need the advice.
should i just move the clone box to a darker place in the room w/ maybe one cfl above it?

i have some root accelerator (see above) but am not entirely sure after reading the label on it, when it is safe to start using it.

anyway, any more advice is appreciated. im off to read stinkys cloning thred...
:)

last night i rearranged the light configuration and tried to balance it out a bit.
ive moved the seedling tray to get optimal light and moved the cloning tray farthest from the main light footprint.
hope this helps those babies root.
speaking of root..ive used no accelerator or even any nutes on the big one.

help me keep an eye on these and give advice should it be needed.

we really need to vent this room as a next project.
cutting holes in the ceiling and venting/intake from the attic would be an option.
right now, we only have one small 4" hole with a 6" fan blowing out for exhaust.
and we will be going to our hps eventually...

any ideas? (while i get back to the :pipe:)

BAD! got some red stems.
Thinking introducing the ferts will fix this...hoping anyway.

GOOD: Took the dowel/stake out of the pot and the plant stands up stong on its own now.

Seedlings: Growing very well. Going to introduce mild nutes soon.
The germ'd seeds that went straight to seedling mix (terra cotta pots) look the strongest.

Clones: Looking good, out of major light and staying covered.

pics coming in the next few hours...

p.s. need some serious vent/exhaust recomendations so this can be a 'sealed' closet venting to the attic. I have one 6" fan blowing into the attic w/ no duct right now (not very effecient, i know)

:thumbsup:

passive duct build directly of the bottom of the cabinet an option ?

Simply calculate the amount if possible then make a simple duct going a little out the bottom and have the active outtake and passive intake... this could be a solution that would probably work rather well...

i can figure out how to calculate, roughly the amount of air displacement required for this space. but can i simply run, say, a 6" duct from the attic (vented), to the bottom of the space.

and will this venting low help at all with keeping the space cool. i figured i would have to run round flexable duct someplace close to the HID light source.

anyway, let me know what you think about this

and p.s no pics tonight, had to charge my batteries.

Nutes i added for tomorrows watering (all photographed above) used at less than 1/2 strength :

1) FloraNova Grow
2) Flora Blend Compost Tea
3) Humboldt Roots Nutes
4) and a slight touch of the myco madness

Please let me know if i've totally fucked up because I haven't used this mix to water the large plant.

p.s.

These pics are of today, after the watering mentioned above.
Ol' Droopy is what were calling her/him this week.:(
The new growth looks healthy to me, but there is yellowing of large fan leaves (one in particular) near the bottom of the plant.

P.S. This plant started indoor then went to a window seal and now its in this closet space.

Also, I removed the dowel rod and its standing stong on its own...
and i've finally figured out how to use thumbs. bout time, eh?

These are some close ups of the redding in some of the stems.

at least our new ones are coming up well.
the terra cotta plants were straight to seedling mix via water germ method.
(except for the one in a puck and clay).

The last pic is of the two together as a sprouting/vegging family.
:weedpoke:

This is our first attempt @ cloning.
They are cuts from the big plant.
Getting different water than everything else. h20 w/ a root accelerator.
The cloning tray is at the outside of the light footprint in the same area as everythiing else.

what's everyones opinion?

:what:

she may be female. I'm being optimistic and calling the plant a her from now on.
Now if we can just get her looking a bit better.
She'll call for some watering tomorrow, im sure.

Here's the pics of the pre flowering.
Or what I think is the pre-flowering stage/transition. Probably not the correct nomenclature (im not a scientist here, i use peopletalk) im actually more of a stoner. :rasta:

alrighty, got some white label white skunk going from standard seed.

click here to check it out.

hopefully, ill have better luck w/ the beans than this closet/window seal/bigger closet transplant, plant is.

from the third pic looks like its a she.. but im no expert to tell exacly
dude something is fuked with ur growing way if that wat happenes to more then 2-3 plants
re check ur growin method

Quote:

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Originally Posted by XmaxxX

dude something is fuked with ur growing way if that wat happenes to more then 2-3 plants
re check ur growin method

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well, if you're talking about the big plant then it might not be our methods...it was a rescue.

okay, so i just wrote all this stuff and then my browser crashed...

so im just gonna sum it up...

New growth looking good/great.
Red stems getting lighter red. Maybe going back green.
Clones have red stems too. but look healthy except for a yellow spot on one leaf.
Lower two leaves on big plant has plenty of yellowing. Looks hurt/shocked. But hanging in there.
A bit droopy still..but seems to be perking up.
Put the stabilization rod aka the stick back in, though she can stand on her own.

Rearranged lighting a couple of days ago. 6 cfl's on the big plant and everything else is under 4-4' flouro's

All the seedlings died except for the ones in the clay terr pots.
Guess they just dried out from the t8's. the deceased were in a different medium, see above.
But, boy are those clay pot seedling really thriving and looking healthy.

here is whats left of the seedlings.

okay, so I guess that all I will continue to log on this thred is the health of the one rescue plant.

The clones didn't make it.

And only three of the seedlings survived. (they are doing GREAT though!)
check out their their progress along side my White Skunk.

the following are pics of the rescue plant...healthier than ever...