if we colonize other solar systems....

okay gang, here's the thing. i just got done watching something, and at the end of the program it talked about how we would eventually leave not only our planet, but our solar system, to escape any doomsday event that might disrupt the entire solar system (Planet X, 2012, that kinda stuff)

So I pose a scientific/theological question... if we go on to colonize other solar systems, that is to say, if we find new "Earths" and set up camp there and begin colonizing for generations... do you think we'll invent a new God?

nobody was around for the "birth of Man" on our planet, but if we go to another planet, and WE begin the "birth of Man", will Man be God?

I'm not referring to the Catholic God or any one specifically, or trying to start a debate whether God exists or not, I'm talking about the idea of God socially, the idea that anybody has, even if you don't believe in God, you must have some idea of who God is supposed to be, or else you couldn't disbelieve it.

So what do you think? Will we make ourselves God? if the first man to set foot on the new home planet is Tom Thomas, will "God" be forever referred to as "Tom"?

I'm not even stoned!

Hmmm, I know what you're trying to hypothesise about...I think (lol)

Let's say 'Tom' and 'Kate' were the first persons to land on this 'New Earth' with the intention to populate that planet (poor planet) as you described in your preamble.

Let's now fast-forward a few generations.

The initial level of intellect that that 'Tom/Kate' race, as compared to the initial intellect of our own ancestors (ie, primative Man), would be such that history would have been recorded to show that 'Tom' and 'Kate' were not 'Gods', but would be referred to as 'the first to land here...'

I don't think that I'm making much sense....hang on...
:jointsmile:

Ok....

Whereas our ancesters had no grasp of communication, and therefore no way of acurately recording the rise of Man, the ancesters of the New Earth would, and thus there could be no confusion as to the origins of that new 'Tom/Kate' race.

Does that make sense now...:wtf:
lol

But an interesting though, notheless :thumbsup:

Res...

Hopefully if we get the intelligence and technology to colonize distant planets we'll be past worrying about where god is hiding. I'm sure we'll make just as big a mess of the other planets as we are messing up this one.
I don't think NASA is going to be the lead agency when we have the technology to leave this solar system. It will all be privately funded for monetary gain.

by the time we colonise another planet, the word god wont be in the dictionary

I don't think Tom Thompson will be called God any more than Christoper Columbus was when he founded the new world.

hmm, I really can't offer an opinion on that. What I wonder is what will we find ethically acceptable or not in terms of settling a new planet? If there are higher beings already there, do we say "ok a thousand of us will come live here and a thousand of you can live on our planet"? or will we try to conquer or annihilate them like we so often have the habit of doing here on Earth? Maybe we will say ok, ignore that planet and look for a new one, we can't settle there because someone's already there. But where will we draw the line? If our presence adversly affects the local life, will we only settle planets that have no life? Planets with only microbes? Diverse life but no sentients? Or will we have the same "manifest destiny" approach we did with North America?

It depends on the culture that arises after the initial inhabitation. Maybe after thousands (or even only hundreds) of years, the culture shock of starting a new society on a new planet will have caused the origin of the society to be lost to the past.

However, if this were to happen I doubt that the leader of the first colony would be remembered.

UNLESS the people who first settled decided to raise their kids under the impression that there was nothing before the "new" planet and that they were the second generation EVER, but that would be really messed up.

They would undoubtedly just bring 'god' with them and thank 'god' for the new discovery and such. They would claim it as a 'insert the most popular religion of the time here' planet.

Hell, most of our planets are named for 'gods'

Saturn, Jupiter, Venus, Mars... get the idea? lol

Not only will we be past thinking about a concept as petty and pointless as God, we probably would not even be considered physically human. As we progress technologically, we will continue to adapt to our enviroment, but in order to adapt to space travel, we will need a radical divergence from what is considered human currently, a signifcantly longer life span, a more efficient metabolism, and a improved brain able to store and process the information required by the greater lifespan.

God isnt invented and its a simply a word to represent something that cannot be explained. We cant explain the mechanics of life so we name it something and its simpe as that. If god could be invented the idea of "GOD" would lose all meaning.

Technically thats what religion is, making new gods, and people have been doing that for years already. I personaly do not believe in a god, or gods, or an "after" life. I believe the mechanics of our world as a whole are impossible to understand because that "understanding" (given that it even EXISTS) cannot be perceived while our physical body limits our senses.

And about space travel and our ability to move to other planets. First of all, moving to other "solar systems" would be extremely difficult if not impossible. A solar system typically refers to a star surround by "planets" or celestial bodies. The closest star (potential solar system) is MANYYY light years away, a distance impossible to achieve regardless of technological capability because of infinite mass. You would simply deteriorate moving that quickly and even if you didn't you'd die somehow else for sure.

The funny thing is given the existence of a non physical world how would you define the speed at which a spirit moves. Does "speed" even exist in that plane? These questions are impossible to answer, prove, or disprove, which is my point entirely; the questions are compeltely paradoxal and insane and IMPOSSIBLE TO PERCEIVE, or to make any of sense of (because that "understanding" cant exist in this world)

no space travel of that kind is not impossible. either you travel through conventional space at near but under the speed of light, and 50-200 years passes on Earth, for you only weeks or months or a few years pass. Or travelling through worm holes, or warp drive is theoretically quite possible. Hard yes, maybe not attainable for decades or centuries, but far from impossible.

You want the truth?


The truth is the question misses the point.


First off, the idea that "by the time we colonise another planet, the word god wont be in the dictionary" is naive. There's the simple fact that it would be in the dictionary regardless of whether anyone believed in a god for centuries. But even that is ridiculous. There will always be stupid people.

Now I'm not saying that believing in a deity is stupid, or that only stupid people believe in a deity. But as long as there are stupid people there will be unscrupulous smart people who seek to exploit their stupidity with religion. So there will always be religions. Some good, some bad, just as there are today.


Second, to ask whether we'll create new gods when we colonize other planets presumes that we need some excuse (like living on a new planet) to create new gods. History clearly indicates otherwise.

I would expect realistically that we'll see no less than 2 significant new religions invented prior to any kind of serious attempt at extra-solar colonization.



The human race doesn't need an excuse to invent a new god. All there needs to be is someone who honestly believes they've found a new, better morality, or someone who believes they can use it to organize a power base underneath them.

Not until mankind banishes hate, jealousy, greed, and so on will man stop looking for a higher power. And probably not even then (though that won't ever happen.)

We wont colonize other solar systems. They are too far away. We will however send probes with DNA that will start new life once we have the technology to do so. Probably much like life started on this planet maybe.

It would be possible to build (in orbit) a spacecraft to travel to another star, even if it would be the children or grandchildren of the crew who would finish the journey. It would require a large portion of the resources of the entire world, both economically and intellectually, and it would require them for generations. That seems more than a little unlikely.

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Originally Posted by bhouncy

We wont colonize other solar systems. They are too far away. We will however send probes with DNA that will start new life once we have the technology to do so. Probably much like life started on this planet maybe.

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The solar systems seem far away now, but they wont seem far when we are able to travel through space at 99% of light speed. Eventually humans will need to spread through the cosmos, and we will find a way. even if it means drifting for aeons on hulking ships which support immense populations, it is unavoidable: Humans will spread through the universe.

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Originally Posted by sammer

... it is unavoidable: Humans will spread through the universe.

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Like a virus. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by BlueBlazer

Like a virus. :rolleyes:

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You may scoff but that is how our species has spread through history, just like a rapidly mutating and reproducing virus..It makes sense that we will spread throughout the galaxy once the technology allows for it.

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Originally Posted by sammer

You may scoff but that is how our species has spread through history, just like a rapidly mutating and reproducing virus..It makes sense that we will spread throughout the galaxy once the technology allows for it.

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I was funning a bit, but I wasn't scoffing. If we don't destroy ourselves first, I have no doubt that mankind will reach for and attain the stars. :thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by BlueBlazer

I was funning a bit, but I wasn't scoffing. If we don't destroy ourselves first, I have no doubt that mankind will reach for and attain the stars. :thumbsup:

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Yes, we have to end our constant warfare if we are to become truly civilized.

On our solar system there are two M class planets. On our planet we worship the great bum in the sky, on the other one they worship this weird guy with a grey beard, looks a bit like the wizard guy from this Lord of the Rings film.

lets just put it this way.. we have a better chance of a pig being president of the united states before this will EVER happen.. lol (im talking about finding a solar system that supports life like ours)

you are wrong. most likely anyway. we should find many such planets and we should be able to develop ways to travel anywhere in space we want to travel, if we want it bad enough and are not so short-sighted to not take the risk and expense of making it happen. we will be far better off if we do, and will wither away into nothingness if we don't, so we must travel to the stars.

i like where this is all headed.

here's a hypothesis! what if we, on earth, eventually merge technology & biology into some machine-human hybrid, or basically just transfer all our human "energy" and "minds" into that of robots.

WHAT IF, instead of "robots taking over" and "killing all humans", robots really were still instilled with the idea that organic life is good, and WHAT IF THEY spent their "lives" trying to get back to Organic life, just as we have spent OUR lives trying to get to Technological life.

and what if, say, when robots are all that's left, regardless of whether we've reached the speed of light or not, Robots left our solar system before it was destroyed, and traveled maybe for MILLIONS of years (which they could withstand, being robots) to another "Earth" and colonized Humans there with the remains of their long lost descendants.

That's fuckin BRILLIANT. and once again, not even stoned :cool:

interesting, because I saw Micho Kaku suggesting something similar in a recent Science Channel show. He said we can send little machines, nanoprobes I believe, through a wormhole to another universe or elsewhere in our universe and reseed the human race on the other side. That probe would have our genetic code and everything else about us and would reconstruct human civilization on the other side. amazing! I would prefer to go there myself but if we couldn't, or before we could, this would be good too.

and who knows? The robots in your scenario may establish a civilization and use us as their model for a God. Not that is good or bad. Or maybe they would willingly work where we couldn't go easily, like asteroids or Mercury and and so on, mining and doing whatever else they can do to help their masters. They would do everything and we would live our lives doing what we want to do while they do the dirty work. I am not saying that is good or bad either, just a possible scenario. If they achieve their own sentience though, they deserve to live on their terms. A lot to keep the philosophers busy! :D

Interesting to muse on.

I saw a program dealing with the formation of the Earth and the beginning of life here. According to the scientists interviewed, we now believe that the essential building blocks for life were delivered via star dust bombarding the Earth. If that is true it is inconceivable that similar conditions have not already occurred on other planets meeting the other requirements for life.

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Originally Posted by space toker

you are wrong. most likely anyway. we should find many such planets and we should be able to develop ways to travel anywhere in space we want to travel, if we want it bad enough and are not so short-sighted to not take the risk and expense of making it happen. we will be far better off if we do, and will wither away into nothingness if we don't, so we must travel to the stars.

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hahahahaha... Your funny man... and TOTALLY wrong sorry to tell you.... You can keep dreaming cause nothing like that will ever happen... we will wipe ourselves out (extinct ourselves) WAYYYY before we would even be able to think about technology to travel the universe and not only that but YOU WILL NEVER,EVER FIND A SOLAR SYSTEM AND PLANET LIKE OURS!!!!!!

Lets just put it this way. I could fill the ENTIRE Earth with a pile of dimes that reaches as high as the moon, and put ONE RED dime in that pile. Then, blindfold you and let you pick one dime out of the pile.
You have a better chance to pick the RED dime out of all those, than you do of us finding a planet, or solar system like ours!!! and thats ALOT OF DIMES!!!!!!!

maybe that will help you realize how special this universe and our solar system really is... and how LIFE in general, is something very special. Not just random!!!

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Originally Posted by BlueBlazer

Interesting to muse on.

I saw a program dealing with the formation of the Earth and the beginning of life here. According to the scientists interviewed, we now believe that the essential building blocks for life were delivered via star dust bombarding the Earth. If that is true it is inconceivable that similar conditions have not already occurred on other planets meeting the other requirements for life.

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exactly. anyone who thinks there are not likely to be other Earths out there are just not thinking period. They could be rare, they could be quite common, but they are almost certain to exist, and the evidence as BlueRazer mentioned suggests they are more on the common side of things. We should soon discover many Earth-like worlds. Yes I am optimistic but that does by no means mean unrealistic. Would you rather live your life believing that anything is possible or that nothing is possible? The latter would be a morbid depressing way to live, so I choose the former. Progress never happens under the leadership of pessimists, if it was up to them, we would all still be living in caves. Unfortunately, our leaders are not optimists either but somewhere in between, or we would already be living elsewhere in the solar system or even around other stars.

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Originally Posted by space toker

exactly. anyone who thinks there are not likely to be other Earths out there are just not thinking period. They could be rare, they could be quite common, but they are almost certain to exist, and the evidence as BlueRazer mentioned suggests they are more on the common side of things. We should soon discover many Earth-like worlds. Yes I am optimistic but that does by no means mean unrealistic. Would you rather live your life believing that anything is possible or that nothing is possible? The latter would be a morbid depressing way to live, so I choose the former. Progress never happens under the leadership of pessimists, if it was up to them, we would all still be living in caves. Unfortunately, our leaders are not optimists either but somewhere in between, or we would already be living elsewhere in the solar system or even around other stars.

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I am an optimist too but a bit of a cynic as well, which is kind of strange I guess. :wtf:

I'm cynical about ever seeing anything more than "baby steps" in my lifetime or even that of my grandchildren. Our progress towards space has been limited by the will of the human race at large really. How many common folks going about their daily lives really wants to pay taxes so scientists and jet jockeys can snag some rocks from the moon or Mars? I think if you conducted a national vote on it, you'd find that space exploration wouldn't get the approval rating necessary to constitute a mandate. It will take a combined effort and the public will to make a human expansion into space and it will be a long time coming I'm afraid.

Humans have created the technology to successfully launch, pilot, and use robot spacecraft to explore our Solar System and beyond. The level of technology it will take to reach any habitable planets with humans aboard is far above what we now possess. There are advancements being made all the time, but unless a way to actually navigate a worm hole is achieved, mankind will always be limited by the incredible amount of time required to reach other solar systems even at the speed of light.

I guess you could say that I'm an optimist in that I believe that mankind will eventually evolve and those qualities that are noble in us will win out in the long run. Then humans will be ready to colonize space.

Like I said... KEEP DREAMING!!! Your never going to find another planet like ours because none like ours exist. We are ONE OF A KIND! Even if the universe contains as many planets as it does stars, which is a BIG over estimate in my opinion, that still leaves us with less than one chance in a billion trillion that you'd find even one planet in the entire universe with the capacity for supporting life like ours.

"Another way of looking at this incredible fine-tuning of the universe in this one characteristic is to compare it with the very best that we humans have achieved. It's not built yet, but towards the end of this year, a machine will come online at Cal Tech. This machine will have the capacity to make measurements to within one part in 100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 (10 to the 23rd power). The best machine man has ever designed.

But the very best machine that man has ever designed, with all of our money, technology and education, falls one hundred trillion times short of the level of fine-tuning that we see in just this one characteristic of the universe." hugh ross

Yea... Ummm it's never going to happen. I'll smoke to that. :pimp:

- The Dubious Apologetics of Hugh Ross -

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Originally Posted by BlueBlazer

- The Dubious Apologetics of Hugh Ross -

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well you said you DO BELIEVE IN THE BIG BANG!!! That the universe is finite!!! If you beleive that than how you can believe that link as well???

Keep reading Chris.

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Originally Posted by BlueBlazer

Keep reading Chris.

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The whole basis of their arguement is that the big bang is not true.
You have stated before that you do in fact believe that the big bang DID happen.

BTW, the article was clearly written to bash Ross's opinions and beliefs. Not to inform anybody on anything new.

Classic.

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Originally Posted by BlueBlazer

Classic.

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again? come on man. say something worth listening to.

anyways blueblazer, im curious on why you give that article any credit. It is based on the belief that the universe WAS NOT created in a big bang. Which you clearly stated yourself that it was.

Somethings not right there :wtf: