Contradictions! Seriously - WTF!?

I swear to dog I am going to lose it. Those of a sensitive nature may wish to skip this post and move on to something else. Also, I mean no offense whatsoever to those who have actually grown these plants and have had experience with certain things that have worked or not worked - it is just that I am fed up with running in circles with information. So, I am going to have a real good rant now.

As a complete newbie to growing this sort of plant, but not being new to either gardening or growing plants indoors, I've been trying to absorb as much information possible about these specific little critters. I've got a bunch of ebooks, videos, archived web sites, and of course the living, breathing web to draw on. And what am I learning?

I am learning that a substantial number of people giving advice about growing these plants are completely and utterly full of shit. No, that doesn't mean YOU specifically. Don't get your panties/boxers in a bunch. I mean people who just pull crap out of their arses who have never grown, or have never done anything but one specific kind of growing or whatever but consider themselves an authority on all things cannabis. Because of this, I think I just found teeth marks in my keyboard - I must have been subconsciously chewing on it while I was curled up in the foetal position on the floor after reading yet ANOTHER piece of contradictory information.

Over the last few weeks, I have found information that directly contradicts other information on lighting, feeding, pot size, transplanting, seed starting, cloning, soil, water, environment, male vs. female plants, and temperature â?? and more. And I don't mean one person says 68F is good, and another says 70F is good. I mean I'll find one source that says 68-74F is perfect, then one that says 80-88F is perfect, and then another that says the warmer the better but don't go over 96-98F, and growing under 85F produces slow, limited growth. And out of all of those things, I found only one source that said "temperature tolerances of the plants may vary by strain", and only one other that said "this is what worked for me, but I have not tried anything else so your mileage may vary". Lighting is the worst of all - how much, what colour, what wattage, what process is used to produce the light, where it is hung, what materials are reflective vs "absorbing" light... when faced with the sum total of all this, the ONLY conclusion I have been able to draw is that I should try something out and if it works out, great. If not, tough rocks, start over with something different. Not exactly the most affordable solution for me since all I live on is a small gov't disability cheque, but oh well. Like I said, tough rocks - for me.

The worst part of this all is the utterly and completely nonsensical aspect of some of the information available - some of it simply has no scientific or logical basis at all. I am not going to cite one of the half dozen specifics on the top of my head, but much of the information ends up being of this sort of quality: Guy grows plants. While growing his plants, he injures his testicles and has to have a hernia operation. While home recuperating, he produces his best yield ever. So, rather than concluding it was because of his extra time and attention dedicated to his plants, he decides that it was his groin pain that led to his better yield. This means that for every grow from then on, he punches himself in the balls daily to ensure good growth. He then goes on a forum on the web recommending nut punches for all growers to improve the quality of their plants.

Is this ridiculous? Of course it is. But, that is the state of the information out there (even in some of the books). Someone arrives at a conclusion without any significant supporting research and just continues to believe that, never trying to prove or disprove it. I get it - of all people I know that turning something you paid $5-25 a seed for into a science project might not be the wisest thing to do... but really, do they HAVE to put it up as gospel on a web page and shamelessly plug it as the only way to do things?

Growing plants of any kind successfully is a combination of art and science. The part where you get the plants to grow at all is usually the science part. The part where you get them to grow really well is the art part. Sometimes knowing just when to water or fertilize for the best yield (be it tomatoes, marigolds or cannabis) is more about instinct and feeling than it is about precise, raw data analysis. But, there is one thing it isn't - it is not a religion. Religion is believing something is true based on faith, even if there is not conclusive scientific evidence or data to support it. Yet, over and over I find people calling their growing information a "bible", as though some prophet was inhaling fumes while burning a bush when out popped a stone tablet with THE definitive 420 steps of instructions on how to produce a good, solid, high-quality weed and they based all their future plantings of ganja on that list and that list alone. It really is enough to make your head asplode!

I know from experience with other plants that usually the most ideal growing conditions for a plant are the conditions under which the plant evolved (or was bred) in. Deviations from this may produce improved results but there is almost always a trade-off. You might get more fruit from something in a single harvest, but it may not live as long. Alternatively, you can extend the life of some plants beyond what nature provided but that often leads to smaller yields in the short term, or lower quality fruit/leaves/herbs, or stunted growth, or overgrowth, or some other balancing factor. The plants evolved the way they did because that was the best genetic stock, the plants that were able to produce the most seeds to reproduce themselves produced the most offspring, and eventually those of inferior genetic stock were driven out. Yup, Ma Nature is a bitch - but at least she is not vindictive about it. It happens to everyone and everything over time on this little blue and green marble we call home.

There is only one way to prove something works, in terms of science. That is to have an â??experimental groupâ?? and a â??control groupâ??, and expose both to the exact same controlled conditions. You canâ??t insist that one kind of plant food is the best or the worst unless you have experimented with them all, tested them under identical conditions, and have generated reproducible results with qualitative data. â??My buddy used powdered reindeer colons and he gets the best dank everâ?� or â??I tried Miracle Gro and all I got was a bunch of schwagâ?� are not conclusive or scientific results â?? thatâ??s just how things turned out in that specific situation. It is the starting point to experiment from, not the definitive conclusion â?? yet over and over certain individuals INSIST that this is proof of the efficacy or lack thereof of a particular method or substance or piece of equipment. What you have there is a possible contributing factor, not evidence or proof.

Iâ??m sorry, but I am just really tired of it. The plant is called weed for a reason â?? because in its natural environment, it grows like one. Reproduce as much of that environment as you can, and you will do well. There are a few ways to really screw it up, but from what I have seen and read about almost everything is recoverable (short of the plants being completely dead) with patience, persistence and determination. There doesnâ??t appear to be any absolute right or wrong as long as you treat it like a plant and give it what it needs, just things that can make things a little better here and there. Nothing is absolutely foolproof â?? fools are much too resilient for that â?? but sharing what works for you without insisting that someone MUST do it only your way is, in my opinion, the most helpful you can be (which, BTW, I have noticed is the attitude of the most helpful people on this site).

Please, share what has worked for you â?? donâ??t stop. But remember that unless you have done every possible combination and permutation of growing, there is no way you know the one, perfect true way to do it. We should all be here to listen and learn, even the most experienced at something will occasionally get an idea or inspiration from the newest person doing it. Even the most expensive setup can occasionally produce poorly, and even the cheapest can produce unexpectedly well - such is life.

I appreciate every bit of honest information I can come by. I appreciate when someone says â??What worked for me wasâ?� X or Y or Z. But those of you who have only ever done things one way and that was â??good enoughâ?�, well, share what worked for you (or if some specific thing didnâ??t) but donâ??t attack what you donâ??t know. There are enough Monday Morning Quarterback Growers around as it is.

Believe me, us noobs will find it a lot easier to follow if there are fewer people insisting there is only one true path (especially if it is a path that demands $1000 or more in startup costs) to growing.

And weâ??ll thank you for it, in the end.

I needed a sermon this morning.
Preach it, bruthaman. Can I get a Ramen?

Keep it simple stoner. And if ya don't know wtf you're talking about... please keep your mouf in the 'closed' position and your ears turned ON. :jointsmile:

Potty I hear you we all aren't experts but to find the best way is intake not just I know it all attitude. My plants with mirrors around them are doing great they are all about 20 inches tall and budding the entire length of the stems but I was told to shut up and don't spek so to Hell with the supposed experts. I will still enjoy my Master kush without the expert advise given here. I am also disabled and have nothing othert than to look after my baby buds. Oh what a joy it is to see any dumbass can grow a weed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Melskid

Potty I hear you we all aren't experts but to find the best way is intake not just I know it all attitude. My plants with mirrors around them are doing great they are all about 20 inches tall and budding the entire length of the stems but I was told to shut up and don't spek so to Hell with the supposed experts. I will still enjoy my Master kush without the expert advise given here. I am also disabled and have nothing othert than to look after my baby buds. Oh what a joy it is to see any dumbass can grow a weed.

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thats why they call it "weed"

fire it up! :rasta:

exactly

Lol you're still mad that SnS asked you VERY politely to stop threadjacking his grow log?
http://boards.cannabis.com/grow-log/...ml#post1875343

Please. Start your own log and PROVE to the doubters that mirrors are better than mylar or white paint!

I have not read or looked at SNS' site since he told me not to comment on using a procyon on his grow log site I will enjoy my growth he can enjoy his. A growing from something new it would seem to me needs more than one point of view . But that's just my opinion kind of like anyone elses in here it is all a little bit of luck and technique so I will find another source to read about using new technoligies other than a site where it is a forbidden to comment on a grow using basically the samething. Anyone else in here know of a different chat site for growing buds?

There are plenty of others, and they run the whole gamut from virtually unmoderated forums or forums where the moderation staff does not care about accuracy of information, to sites where accuracy is number one (like this one). You will find that there is an inverse relationship between the collective EXPERIENCE of a site's members, and the TOLERANCE of those members for the posting of incorrect information.

When you find a site where the members understand that growing plants is a SCIENCE, not a matter of opinion, you will find a place where fact is fact, and help is helpful. You've found one here, if you choose to take advantage of it. There are as any styles of growing as there are growers, but %reflectivity numbers are a quantifiable amount and not open to interpretation.

You===SNS my plants are doing great I put them in the planters you see most plants come in gallon containers with the holes in the boottom and sides and put hangers under them to drain any excess water from them. I also put a fan in the closet and that has made it to where I can water it everyday instead of every 4 days. My Master kush plant is starting to grow some nice buds on them and I still have it 4 feet above the plants I have six of them going now and they all are looking great. The Master kush I have growing I brought in from outside is taking off it was perhaps a month old when I brought it in, I knoced off all the dirt from it and put it in potting mix and after a week of looking like it was limp it has been nothing but great since.

Me===thats great melskid....but you mind starting a grow log? Ill come in and check on ya, its a lil proper etiquette on here to not repeatedly update your grow on someone elses grow log...all good in the hood man
whiskeytango

God, I am such an asshole....Why did you have to get your panties twisted? why not just start your own grow log, and we all would've gladly came in and given advice..Like you are using mirrors? read up on that, I wont even give you my "hell with the experts" advice, because I dont even consider myself an "expert" by any means....Grow up man...

Sorry for the tirade on your thread Potty, and I hear ya man...Trial and error are what will teach ya. I train dogs for a living, and there are 30 different dog trainers SWEARING that their way is the ONLY way. And it applies in here as well...the best advice I can give ya, is what I do. Take in 3-4 methods for what you are trying to accomplish...And on to good ole trial and error...There are only 4-5 what I would call "experts". But in the nature of the site, discussing what works is what we do...different methods tried and explained=new techniques.....Smoke a fatty when reading, I know it can get aggravating. But when looking for help or advice, if someone gives it to ya, read up on their threads and grows...maybe you will be able to tell who you should listen too....theres my :twocents:
:joint1:
whiskeytango

I wish I had something to smoke, but I don't. That's why I am trying to grow something... I had to make a choice. Spend the money on trying to grow and hopefully be able to have a sufficient supply in a couple of months, or go and spend what little $$ I have to buy some from a compassion centre and run out before I can afford more. This is an investment in the long term.

Anyway, I have a log going for what I am doing. Everything is being done as cheap as I possibly can do it, and it has STILL cost well over $100 to get started with seeds and all. And if I had not already had some equipment on hand because I grow other plants, it would be heading for $200+.

Nothing is so disheartening than to have people insist that you have to have a $200-400 light or some fertilizer that costs $50 per drop or not to use "cheap" potting soil (if it is cheap or none, well, cheap it is...). But then it just gets worse: even if you have everything you need (or that you think you need) and you get all set up, you hit google for some further info and find 10 different sites with 10 different "right ways" to do it, and half of them are the complete OPPOSITE of the other half. And I swear if I see one more person say that BOILING water is the same as DISTILLING water or that you can reduce the hardness of water by putting it on the stove for a few minutes, I am going to have a conniption.

I can only imagine some poor schlub who has lived in an apartment his/her whole life (and has never had so much as a houseplant) getting sick, getting a medical card, and discovering that $150+ a month is beyond their means and deciding to start trying to grow their own. I'd guess that half of them simply give up in despair after a few days of trying to decipher it all, and the other half start by pawning their television, xbox and guitar in order to have to cash to buy some monstrosity of a light that has the equivalent candlepower of the sun (and that they won't be able to afford to turn on due to the electric bill), because that's what the "experts" told them to do.

I really admire folks like BobBong (I think that's what his name was) and others who have shown that you can grow on the cheap with CFL bulbs and a pot of dirt in a small space.

The dollar store and Wal-Mart have been my friends in this project. Sure, I don't have space station grade mylar to line my walls - but what I do have cost me $2 for 2 packages and is better than nothing, and the other alternative is selling a child into slavery to have the funds to purchase it from NASA. I think I can live with the "wrinkles and folds" and that it is "too thin" since it still makes the inside of my greenhouse look like the planet Mercury on a sunny day. I'd have used aluminum foil or dollar store mirrors if they were the only alternatives and to heck with what any Mr. I-Need-A-Massive-Yield-To-Supply-All-My-Friends says.

Our neighbour apparently used to grow on a windowsill and did just fine. I'm going to try and do a little better than that. I'd just like to know that I am not killing my seedlings by transplanting them "wrong" or having the temperature "wrong". Is that so much to ask?

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Originally Posted by PottyBear

...and the other half start by pawning their television, xbox and guitar in order to have to cash to buy some monstrosity of a light

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What? That's a bad thing to encourage? (Says the chick who hasn't owned a TV in years and whose last game system was a Super NES)

Someone really pissed you off huh. You wanna grow cheap? Then grow cheap! My first grow was miracle grow, and a hand me down 600HPS. My circulation was a fan that i moved around...thats it....If you are growing for just you, a few 23w CFLs will do the trick...Is this gonna be a rant thread? Or are you gonna log your grow?
whiskeytango


you managed to get stinky's attention, so while you got her, I would ask anything you need to know...She is one of the most knowledgeable growers I have met...or typed to....lol
:joint1:

Still can't find my camera wires to hook up to the computer sooner or later I'll figure out how to write a grow log also. I'm still learning how to use my computer. Best thing to do in my uninformed opinion is to move to Ca and just grow em outside I got 28ounces from two plants last year. I bought my procyon from reading SNS' site but with the reception I get for not knowing the supposed rules was startling to say the least. Keep up the good fight and keep the home fires burning

Just for future reference, the 'supposed rules' are in fact a sticky at the top of the 'Grow Log' forum section. You can't get banned for it, but it's considered poor form.

http://boards.cannabis.com/grow-log/...grow-logs.html

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Originally Posted by SnSstealth

Someone really pissed you off huh. You wanna grow cheap? Then grow cheap! My first grow was miracle grow, and a hand me down 600HPS. My circulation was a fan that i moved around...thats it....If you are growing for just you, a few 23w CFLs will do the trick...Is this gonna be a rant thread? Or are you gonna log your grow?
whiskeytango

you managed to get stinky's attention, so while you got her, I would ask anything you need to know...She is one of the most knowledgeable growers I have met...or typed to....lol
:joint1:

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I have felt very privileged to read many of stinky's how-tos and pieces of advice. They are great, and I appreciate the tidbits I get from her info more than full-blown how-tos that I have seen in 90% of the other online "guides". I'm not sure I have a lot more questions, she's put most everything I need out there already.

And it isn't "someone" who pissed me off... it is the whole thing in general. We're trying to do this for some medicine for my illness, which causes me to have extreme fatigue and pain. The more I read, the more exhausted I get because it doesn't matter if I move my body or use my brain, it all uses up energy I don't have. I want medicine so I can have enough energy to deal with my own OUTDOOR gardens instead of staying in bed... and instead I'm using it all up on this indoor planting of just a few seeds. The wife was originally going to grow these seeds for me - she ordered them and everything, but after reading so much contradictory info she didn't know what to do. Since I am the "lead gardener" in this house, so to speak, it fell to me to figure out why different people say completely different things for something that is relatively basic for most beginners. Her big conspiracy theory is that people are making it sound complicated so you won't want to grow yourself, you'll have to buy it from them.

Yes... this is a rant thread! My grow log is in the grow logs section. I have 4x27W 6500K CFL bulbs shining down on my little semi-retarded-looking seedlings right now as we speak. And EVERY time I try and find some little specific morsel of info so I feel like I know what I am doing, I have to wade hip-deep into the sewage pond on the WWW in order to retrieve that little tiny gem of truth. It's smelly, tiring, time-consuming and frustrating. Well, except maybe the smelly part (sniffing armpits). Nope, not actually smelly... yet.

No matter what it is, I tend to lose it when someone tries to push some product of some kind on you claiming it is the perfect solution to your woes. Pile on top of that the number of people with opposing views for something as simple as growing a plant and you have a recipe for me pulling a Linda Blair routine.

This site is the one site where it seemed like the "you can't do that" - "yes you can" crap was at a minimum (still exists, but it is much, much less than most forums) and so I signed up so I could post. Doesn't mean I'm not still experiencing things in my google web searches that make me spew pea soup while my head spins around.

Like I said in the title of the post:

Whiskey.
Tango.
Foxtrot.

then rant on!!!.....lol. I'll find your grow log and add some more non sense advice for ya:jointsmile: It can be quite un nerving at times growing, hell, I have been growing for years....and STILL have issues. The grow before this one I lost 24 plants...ended up being over-watering and off Ph I believe...So while this site can be too overwhelming at times....it can save ya:greenthumb:
whiskeytango

Yeah, I came to the same conclusion when I started researching indoor growing. I think a lot of these people are getting their information from the big hydro growers, then extrapolating it to small, personal growers. Along the way, priority gets ignored, and some information that can safely be disregarded ends up being accepted as gospel.

Personally, I've found that good weed can be grown at much higher temperatures than most people recommend. I had a plant last year that was almost always above 100 degrees, but it gave me 3 ounces of seedless bud. I've also found that copious amounts of dirt do wonders to your plants' stress tolerance. After all, in the wild they grow on a ball of it that's 8000 miles across. 18-gallon Rubbermaid storage containers work well. Also, plants in the wild grow next to other plants, so I plant 2-4 plants per storage container. They don't seem to mind, and I think it helps to give them a broader root base.

My entire setup cost about $300 including a 400-watt HPS light, but doing it a second time I think I could probably trim $50 to $100 off the cost. I get about 3-4 ounces per grow, which is far more than I can smoke. But I like growing so the weed just keeps piling up. :D

If there is one fact you can rely on is everybodies grows are different. Different strains, different lights, different nutes different enviormental conditions. There is a simple truth. Start simple, build your own experience and take pride in what you are doing. No weed is going ro be as good as your own home grown weed.:jointsmile:

damn... someone is going off on a tangent here... most people on this forum are noobs or have been noobs once upon a time. its a given that you will find inconsistent information about growing on the web, that happens with most info posted on the web. everybody gives their own opinion here and their opinion isnt 100% accurate most of the time, thats a given.

i myself am really thankful for having internet including access to this forum because it helped me out ALOT when i first started growing and still helps me when i have doubts about something. of course, i ran across some unaccurate info, but that is why i ask questions or read the "stickies" which are usually very accurate.

so please, instead of ranting and raving about inconsistent information, just use your common sense and pick out the threads that make the most sense to you (ie: cheap grows or whatever suits your fancy).

im sorry, but it really makes me mad to read these kinda posts especially when most people here and trying to help.

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Originally Posted by bluntwiz

just use your common sense and pick out the threads that make the most sense to you.

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I think that sums it up nicely. :thumbsup:

OP... you can't have it both ways. It's either you want:
- ONE single person dishing out "supposed," expert opinion... with either references of studies that represent other peoples experience (which may or may not be manipulated to sway popular belief on the topic)

or...

-The ACTUAL testimony of those people that the "experts," say they represent? (who have far less potential for financial gain through endorsing particular methods or products)

Internet forums, in general, are set up for the member to have access to a variety of information... NONE of which should EVER be considered EXPERT opinion, unless further testimony from other members proves that the information is accurate and effective (forget about the REP system. Look for members vouching for the results experienced with the given advice.) Doctors... Scientist... ALL PROFESSIONALS.... are at a far greater risk of being convinced/corrupted into presenting research in a favorable way to benefit a private interest. A downfall to this design is that you DO run the risk of receiving poor information and you may lose money/time/energy because of that... ENTER AT YOUR OWN RISK!

Rules of thumbs...
- Do not participate in an activity that you, or your partner, do not have the time/energy to be active in.
- Do not purchase any items that you can not afford. This does not solely include items you will spend your LAST $50 on. It also applies to items that will leave you with a limited amount of money until the next pay day (shit does happen and you may need that money you just spent the other day on new soil)
- Do not base your absolute judgement on ANYTHING you find online. (This forum is fairly active all hours of the day. So if you have a specific question... explain to people that you suffer from symptoms and lack the computer know-how to research the info in-depth. Once you receive an update, verify and ask further questions/seek visual results/ get 3-4 additional responses THEN you can BEGIN to reach a conclusion)
- HAVE FUN WITH IT!! It can be stressful... it can be dangerous... but it can be a seriously satisfying and enjoyable experience. It is also a SCIENCE! You should never expect to be an expert on anything that you have no experience at. I assure you that it WILL get easier. And once you're there... YOU'RE THERE!! :thumbsup: You will encounter problems in the future... but you should know that from LIFE.

I hope you haven't been too worked up because of all this... if there is anything that this site is designed for, in my opinion, it is NOT anger/stress/discouragement. It's all to help. We aren't perfect either... we just do our best :hippy:

Stay :D and Keep :jointsmile:

I think what can be annoying for some folks is the assumption by some that they are in possesion of some "special" information. Claims of "best ever" and "the only way" are arrogant and presumptious and should be treat with mild disdain ..
Nature and enviroment can vary massively and often the only way forward is trial and error , what works for one won't work for all.

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Originally Posted by psychocat

I think what can be annoying for some folks is the assumption by some that they are in possesion of some "special" information. Claims of "best ever" and "the only way" are arrogant and presumptious and should be treat with mild disdain ..
Nature and enviroment can vary massively and often the only way forward is trial and error , what works for one won't work for all.

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What he said....

There are 25 different ways to do something...And in growing this lovely plant, there really are very few WRONG ways...If someone said something worked for them, and they have a log showing it, well, it probably works! Like everyone on here keeps saying, this site and all us posting, are to help each other...kinda weird getting upset because you dont know which way you wanna go isn't it? Soil, Hydro, Organic, Chemical...many differnet ways, all "right"...Lil high strung for a stoner aren't ya?
whiskeytango
:joint1:

Remember he hasn't been smoking....

I agree with the OP. I am still a noob to this growing thing, and I have found that many people will get a hair up their ass if you take a method and want to change it a little. It seems like so many people are scared to experiment. Maybe cause it takes so long to produce a crop? They just want to use what they know works so they don't have a bad yeild is my guess.

I've noticed with any forum, there tends to exist a little bit of group-think. Certain things tend to become accepted as true, even if they aren't entirely true or need to be elaborated with more information.

For instance, last year some guy was growing a plant in his yard, but it was starting to get higher than his fence and he didn't want his neighbors to see. He wanted to top it, but everyone here told him, no topping is bad, use LST (despite the fact that the plant was like 5 feet tall!). So he bent the thing over and cracked the stem. Coincidentally, there was a rainstorm the day before, and his yard was really wet. The plant got all wilted and dead within a day or two, and the people here told him that it must have been all that water that killed his plant. Duh, he cracked the stem! True, topping CAN negatively affect yields a little bit, and too much water will stunt your plant's growth, but too much water will not make your plant wilt up and die in a day like that.

So while there was a grain of truth in the advice he was given, the people who responded had their priorities all screwed up and ended up getting the guy to kill his plant. He would have been better off if he had topped it like he was planning to.

So I guess the moral of this story is, take free advice with a grain of salt, especially if it comes from a bunch of stoners on the internet. ;)

he ony thig about contradictions is we are working with living nature. and all living nature is different. no 2 thing alike period. you cant have 2 exactly same plants from seed only similar plants. so since no 2 plants are alike(unless cloning) they all take different amounts of everything.
get used to growing the same strain and youll perfect it. if i say i can feed my widow with x amount of nutes and you try that with your widow you might burn it cause she cant take much nutes.
get it.

This is an extremely interesting thread. The starter of it doesn't really seem to understand the difference between growing to the best of your ability and just plain "growing." Sure, any goober can take a cfl and some soil from the back yard and grow a joint or two. Whoppee!! Not hard.....and you don't really need internet to do it or a website or even more than a garden book or two.

I've never once said my way is the "only way." However, i've put a LOT of time, energy, $$ etc into growing and feel that my experiences are (most likely) a little more on target than the guy with the mirror and regular light bulb.

Sure there are a lot of people that call that "growing." And folks who WANT to grow as cheaply and ghetto as possible.....feel free.....no one is stopping you.

What MY RANT IS is this: To those who don't want to put the $$, time, energy ETC into their grow do NOT come asking how to fix the mess you've made once it all crashes (which is why you were most likely warned not to do it that way in the beginning....).....cheaply and without much effort on your part. If you can't make it a priority to make growing your meds important then why in the world would I spend my time and energy fixing it for you?

Latewoood said it...if you go cheap; you grow cheap. You're very free to do so.....just don't expect the "experts" to pinpoint, clean up, and then fix your mess.

End of rant.

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Originally Posted by stinkyattic

There are plenty of others, and they run the whole gamut from virtually unmoderated forums or forums where the moderation staff does not care about accuracy of information, to sites where accuracy is number one (like this one). You will find that there is an inverse relationship between the collective EXPERIENCE of a site's members, and the TOLERANCE of those members for the posting of incorrect information.

When you find a site where the members understand that growing plants is a SCIENCE, not a matter of opinion, you will find a place where fact is fact, and help is helpful. You've found one here, if you choose to take advantage of it. There are as any styles of growing as there are growers, but %reflectivity numbers are a quantifiable amount and not open to interpretation.

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PREACH IT SISTER! AMEN!! :thumbsup:

Wow again.

First off, I do believe I mentioned MORE THAN ONCE that the people here generally had their shit together and rarely got their Fruit of the Looms all wadded up when someone did something different. Yet, I have read more than one message that more than suggests that in fact, SEVERAL people got their Fruit of the Looms all wadded up because I was critical of THE ENTIRE STATE OF AFFAIRS over the whole web - NOT THIS SITE.

I know - you're a bunch of stoners, I should not expect much in the way of comprehension, right?

The point is, was, and always will be, that there are people who do NOT understand the keep it simple, and keep it inexpensive concept that the person growing one or two plants needs to follow. Most of the basics are strictly common sense, yet there are people that set up their own site and actually seem to preach AGAINST common sense.

What would be nice is that if I was looking up information about what temperature to grow at, or how much light a couple of plants need, or how moist the soil needs to be to grow in a pot that the answers be somehow approximately the same. That is simply not the case.

I've pretty much stuck with what I have heard here for the most part. Yes, there are people with some absolutely bizarre ideas of how and why some things are done, but most of them also seem to be people who looked at one single dubious source of information and somehow decided that was the only way. And there are a few people here who have said, "I don't know why x is done this way, I just do it" which is what later leads to those bizarre ideas being reproduced due to this little www game that strongly resembles broken telephone.

If people want to slag me and yap like I somehow personally insulted you or this site directly, knock yourself out. That's your prerogative - even if you are way out of line.

I stand by the original concept of this thread.

Contradictions suck. If I need to know if I should buy a fan or not because my grow space is running at 90°F, I'd like some kind of direct answer that makes sense and so would most other new people. If I need to know how deep to transplant my seedlings, I'd like to know how deep my seedlings can go in soil and not get a lecture on something about more lights blah blah spend $400 blah blah from growyourownstinkyassmaryjane.com. And if I get one more answer that sounds like an adult protective undergarment when I ask a specific question with specific details, I'm going to have to hit someone with some fish emulsion.

For all you long-time people, as a noob at this but an internet user for 15 years and a BBS user for 10 years before that, I'll tell you a couple of things about THIS site:

1) Stickies work. Fantastic info.

2) Search SUCKS. And I mean SUCKS sucks. It sucks so hard it almost starts to blow. Any search which gives you any more than 5 threads to read is POINTLESS. Most searches for pertinent information give you dozens of threads including hundreds of messages, or nothing at all. Do YOU have 3 hours to weed through that many posts? No? What are you trying to do, haze the newbies?

3) Giving a 5 word answer and then a 2 paragraph lecture on what someone SHOULD have done rather than ask their question ain't friendly, welcoming behaviour. FYI, this didn't happen to me - but I saw it several times using the aforementioned SEARCH function.

4) You've had X years to sort the BS from the truth, so for you it is easy. Newbies have had 0 years, and everything sounds true because you have NO idea how to weight things. Some have forgotten what it was like to have 0 grows of experience. SOME, NOT ALL, so don't start on me again about how "you're doing your best" - if you are doing your best to help, I am not talking to you, am I? Those who have forgotten know EXACTLY who they are. When I trained people to use computers, I never treated anyone I was teaching like that. Ignorance is not the same as stupid.

I didn't expect to get some of the kinds of responses I got. I thought I made it clear that the contradictions were all over the www. Now, instead of being able to get something harmlessly off my chest I feel like a few people are acting like I am some kind of ungrateful prick.

That ain't real friendly, neither...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Weedhound

What MY RANT IS is this: To those who don't want to put the $$, time, energy ETC into their grow do NOT come asking how to fix the mess you've made once it all crashes (which is why you were most likely warned not to do it that way in the beginning....).....cheaply and without much effort on your part. If you can't make it a priority to make growing your meds important then why in the world would I spend my time and energy fixing it for you?

Latewoood said it...if you go cheap; you grow cheap. You're very free to do so.....just don't expect the "experts" to pinpoint, clean up, and then fix your mess.

End of rant.

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Throwing money at a grow will not make it better , only solid knowledge will.
The most expensive is not always the best.
All information on growing is gathered in the same way Trial and error.
Everyone started with zero knowledge and it can be a slow laborious process to seperate the gems from the dross.
Contradictions are everywhere and unless there is a majority concensus it can be incredibly difficult to know who speaks the truth.

The more complex you make something the bigger the chances of errors.
KISS is IMO the best.
Keep It Simple Stupid . :D

I was actually genuinely interested in trying to make your experience on this site better. I tried (as did most everyone else) my best to lay out some basic guidelines when using a forum like this to help you acheive your goals.

After reading this...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PottyBear

I know - you're a bunch of stoners, I should not expect much in the way of comprehension, right?

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Joking or Not... I really don't care how things work out for you now.

I have problems
I am very sick
I work
I maintain a 4.0 gpa
I try to help out where I can on this site

I DO NOT have time to treat another person with respect and be insulted like that. I don't care if it is playful, joking, or not even directed at me. Sarcastic bullshit like that does not make any allies.
Have fun and be safe :thumbsup:

What he said ^^^.

Seriously, asking questions implying there there is only one right way to grow weed is the classic noob mistake, which you seem to be guilty of. And so many of the factors are interrelated, which is why you seem to be getting so many "depends" answers. How much should you water your plants? Depends what your temperature is and how much soil your plants have. How much soil should your plants have? Depends on your room temperatures and ventilation. How much should you ventilate? Depends on room temperatures and light power.

Really, it amounts to figuring out which things are hardest to change, and which are easiest to change, then adjusting the easy things to compensate for the harder ones. For instance, if your grow room is hot, that is hard to control if you have nowhere else to grow. So you can compensate for that by watering more, giving your plants more soil, increasing ventilation, and using a more heat-resistant strain. If your plants don't like it, you'll be able to tell.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PottyBear

I know - you're a bunch of stoners, I should not expect much in the way of comprehension, right?

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WOW...there's a GREAT way to get anyone to help ya out. And if I'm not mistaken, your whole sad rant here has been about YOU not COMPREHENDING what you were reading, and taking what you need out of what you read....Pot calling the kettle black maybe?:wtf:

I planned my first grow like the D-Day invasion during WW2. Then, I went out and bought my first flower pot. First grow, very sucessful.

Damn!...I forgot something...:silly:...The Secret to growing is simple..."don't have anything better to do"...:thumbsup:

my 'scientific' approach: "it's a friggin' WEED, stick it in the dirt, leave it the hell alone - it will grow" ... :D ... BUT, if ya want it to finish like the pretty photos on the cover of 'High Times', ya gotta spend a bit of money, and a LOT of time, with craploads of PATIENCE ... :jointsmile:

Hi Reap! *pinch.

If you want to grow cheap, you have to match your style with your location and the spaces available, and be willing to work carefully and creatively within those confines, and still be able to recognize when it ISN'T okay to skimp on your expenses (correct exhaust, and heavy duty grounded timers for example). Don't overthink it though! ;)

Well... geez... bunch of stoners with comprehension problems? Ummmmm... let's play 'count the PhDs' or 'count the small business owners' or 'count the independent contractors' or pretty much any other measure of intelligence/success around here and you run out of fingers and toes pretty damn quick.

I'm glad you like the stickies, because I think- just a hunch- that you might just have alienated a LOT of potentially very helpful people... I can only speak for myself though. Good luck man.

I agree with Weedhound. Anybody with a seed, soil, food, light can grow. Everything will work, just how well. Maybe not get anything at all but the plant lived 8 weeks...it worked. I think that after growing over 15,000 varieties of plants all over the damn world, battling insects that took me weeks to identify, grafting, consulting, orchards, grapes, hops, perienials, tree farms, etc...I have found out one very improtant thing. I am not an expert. The plant is. The cool thing is they tell you what they need, you just need to learn to read plant. I learn something new every day, and am humbled every day by nature and her gifts. I also try to pass my findings on to others who are interested or maybe don't want to make mistakes others have. BUT you come on this website and are looking for information on how to grow medicinal MJ. You are going to get advice on how to make the most out of the plant to capture the medicinal qualities of this fine herb. These folks have spent countless hours perfecting, to the best of their abilities with the resources available, their craft. They are not selfish and willing to share with you their experiences. If you want solid scientific evidence and facts then you should be reading botany and plant science. When you learn the basics you will be able to elaborate on that and tweak the plant for your needs. So in closing, you can grow an MJ plant anywhere between 40-105 degrees F. You will have some really different results and some will be forgetable. This site provides information about optimizing growing conditions to achieve top grade medicine. Grow as you like, but trust me this site is a gold mine of information with nice folks sharing their experiences with you for free, taking time from their lives to type it out for you. I thank you all for that.
Peace,
Plantheadj

I have to admit, I too get frustrated with the contradictions over the WWW, and not specifically about weed. I'm pretty much a noob, even though I'm on my 3rd grow. This time around, I have not been so obsessed with the "correct" method. I have taken bits and pieces from what I've learned and used what I could. For instance, I am growing cheap. I'm using rubbermaid tubs, a computer fan, chrome duct tape (for reflectivity) and have been using warm white CFLs the entire time under 18/6. My space is limited, I only have 3 CFLS and my temps are mid-80s. I have to say, my plant is looking mighty fine and has been under 12/12 for 5 days. If I were to ask for advice for a given problem, I know some of the experienced growers would answer my questions to the best of their knowlege. Others might give me answers having nothing to do with the situation. An example would be "I gave my plant too many nutes. What should I do now?" and I could get an answer like "You need to bring your temps down". Nothing to do with the question at all. Thats what kind of what upsets me. Perhaps my plant is showing no signs of heat stress, yet some still seem to think heat is an issue. Hell, my first grow I had no knowlege at all. I did not belong to any forum, nor did I research the web. I had a closet full of clothes, cheap fluoro tubes, and an fan. I know it was well over mid 80s in there and my plant grew fine. I might not have ended up with drop-dead gorgeous buds, but it was good enough for me.

Just remember when asking questions here, that those that are willing to help aren't there next to you to walk you through it. They only know what you tell them about your grow, they can only see what your camera can see. And I must say, this is BY FAR the best forum I have ever come across, aside from the famous overgrow. But they are gone and I now have cannabis.com and I'm stickin' to it! It is the only forum I read. :hippy:

I could give a fuck less to read all this crap.

But you people suck. :D


If you can't sort out how to grow something, do me a favor. "Google" how to make a slip knot and go hang yourself.


Man kind supposedly sorted out how to farm eons ago and yet we have the simple question of how do I grow a plant from seed. The world would be better off if people actually had to think on their own and provide themselves with food.

Buying ANYTHING from the "black market" supplies people who do not have your best interest at heart with tons of money.

I am stuck in pergitory! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah I'm in a shitty mood right now. :(
This forum rocks, period.
You can bet on it that the system/the man/the feds is/are mining this site for loads of intel.

Frankly I don't care to let it be known to anyone other than myself that I do anything worthy of the attention of federal authorities. Sometimes I cut myself out of the loop, now where did I hide my stash. :D