Bush is Finally Seeing the Wisdom of Obama's Positions
It seems to me that the Bush administration is finally coming around to some of the positions that Barack Obama has been advocating for a long time.
We've finally sent a high-level diplomat to Iran. It's something Obama has said was necessary for a long time, but Bush vowed never to do until Iran gave up its uranium enrichment program. I'm glad Bush finally saw the wisdom in being able to talk to your enemies.
Bush is finally talking about a "time horizon" for troop withdrawals from Iraq. It's something Obama has said was necessary for a long time, but Bush claimed would result in defeat. I'm glad Bush finally saw the wisdom in setting an expectation for Iraqis that we would not be there forever.
Now there's news that Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki backs Barack Obama's troop withdrawal plan. Apparently the Iraqis think the 16-month timetable is about right. One of the funniest things the white house has done lately has been to forward the story about Maliki backing Obama's troop withdrawal plan to white house contacts in the media:
CNN Political Ticker: All politics, all the time Blog Archive - White House sends press corps al-Maliki praise for Obama plan « - Blogs from CNN.com
I found that to be really amusing! I bet someone got a stern talking to on that one!
Or maybe not? Maybe this email "mixup" is just Bush's way of laying the groundwork for completely adopting Obama's strategy. With the Iraqis on board, maybe Bush will just adopt Obama's plan 100%. Bush is probably thinking that if he wants to have even one single foreign policy success in his entire 8 years, he might have to just adopt Obama's foreign poilicy positions. It's probably kind of late for him, but you've got to give Bush credit for pulling his head at least part way out of his ass, even if it is too late for him.
Bush is Finally Seeing the Wisdom of Obama's Positions
After taking heat over the weekend for Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki seemingly endorsing Barack Obama??s plan for a timeline of withdrawal of U.S. troops from Iraq, the Iraqi P.M. is now backing off of those statements.
Al-Maliki was "misunderstood and mistranslated" and his comments were not "conveyed accurately," according to an Iraqi government spokesman.
Al-Maliki was quoted by German magazine der Spiegel saying that American troops should leave Iraq ??as soon as possible, as far as we're concerned.?
??U.S. presidential candidate Barack Obama talks about 16 months,? al-Maliki was quoted as saying. ??That, we think, would be the right timeframe for a withdrawal, with the possibility of slight changes.?
The magazine is standing by its story, but the Iraqi government is backing away from the endorsement of any U.S. presidential candidate, saying al-Maliki??s comments "should not be understood as support to any U.S. presidential candidate." President Bush and al-Maliki recently agreed to a ??general time horizon? for pulling troops out of Iraq, and McCain has argued that his support for the surge is one of the main reasons troops are able to be drawn down.
Iraqi Prime Minister Lost in Translation? - From The Road
Obama's plan? Where did anyone say "Run Forest Run"? Keep on grasping at them straws!:thumbsup:
Also...LOL...I didn't know that Geneva was in Iran. Sending a third level person from the state department is a far cry from meeting with Ahmadinejad with no preconditions as Obama stated in his "plan".
Have a good one!:s4:
Bush is Finally Seeing the Wisdom of Obama's Positions
Let us not forget that this is just standard re-election year politics. With George W.'s support being at an all time low, and dragging much of his party down with him, it's natural for him to be more subtle and subdued in his decisions and approaches to problems.
He wouldn't go in there bombing Iran right now.. not with elections coming up and with the current campaigns running so close together. That would absolutely kill McCain's chances of winning.
Also I'm not sure if when you posted that link if it had been retracted yet or not, but Iraqi officials have backed away from their statements... taking their "endorsement" with them.
I wouldn't say this is Bush listening to Obama. He is the last person who would take Obama's advice. This is Bush playing politics in order to help his party achieve victory in November.
Only 4-5 months to go until election time.
Bush is Finally Seeing the Wisdom of Obama's Positions
Quote:
Originally Posted by daihashi
Let us not forget that this is just standard re-election year politics. With George W.'s support being at an all time low, and dragging much of his party down with him, it's natural for him to be more subtle and subdued in his decisions and approaches to problems.
He wouldn't go in there bombing Iran right now.. not with elections coming up and with the current campaigns running so close together. That would absolutely kill McCain's chances of winning.
Also I'm not sure if when you posted that link if it had been retracted yet or not, but Iraqi officials have backed away from their statements... taking their "endorsement" with them.
I wouldn't say this is Bush listening to Obama. He is the last person who would take Obama's advice. This is Bush playing politics in order to help his party achieve victory in November.
Only 4-5 months to go until election time.
Yeah, I was being copmpletely sarcastic when I said Bush was listening to Obama --- of course he's not.
But I'm not sure I agree that these changes in position by Bush are due to election-year politics either. From an election-year politics point of view, these shifts tend to undercut McCain some I think. These shifts give credibility to Obama's positions and make it seem like McCain is behind on these issues. If I were going to spin this in Obama's favor for political reasons, I'd say Obama was right all along, Bush is just now catching up, and McCain still hasn't seen the light. I don't see how this helps McCain at all.
And about the link --- yeah the Iraqi clarification had already come out, but I wanted to link to the story about the white house forwarding the story about Obama because I thought that was hilarious. From what I have seen, the Iraqi PM never "endorsed" Obama, even in the original statement --- he only spoke favorably about Obama's proposed timeline. In the later clarification, he just made it clear he was not endorsing any US politcal candidates, but he did not back off from the endorsement of the timeline. The Iraqi people and government want us to set a timeline and leave.
Bush is Finally Seeing the Wisdom of Obama's Positions
I don't care what the reason is, its just great that atleast the lines of communication are opening up. I hope we start talking to Cuba more too. About 40 years over due.
Bush is Finally Seeing the Wisdom of Obama's Positions
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonrider
But I'm not sure I agree that these changes in position by Bush are due to election-year politics either. From an election-year politics point of view, these shifts tend to undercut McCain some I think. These shifts give credibility to Obama's positions and make it seem like McCain is behind on these issues. If I were going to spin this in Obama's favor for political reasons, I'd say Obama was right all along, Bush is just now catching up, and McCain still hasn't seen the light. I don't see how this helps McCain at all.
So you don't see using diplomacy rather than military tactics, in a country where our general population is sick of war and have expressed their desire to be out of Iraq, during an election year in which Republicans are behind in the polls; as a means to try to help the Republican party? I mean McCain has been criticized for his jokes about bombing Iran and the "100 year war" that dems have tried to label him as.
It's fairly obvious to me that this is a political move to help the Republicans. I do not see this helping or hurting Obama's campaign.
Bush is Finally Seeing the Wisdom of Obama's Positions
Quote:
Originally Posted by daihashi
So you don't see using diplomacy rather than military tactics, in a country where our general population is sick of war and have expressed their desire to be out of Iraq, during an election year in which Republicans are behind in the polls; as a means to try to help the Republican party? I mean McCain has been criticized for his jokes about bombing Iran and the "100 year war" that dems have tried to label him as.
It's fairly obvious to me that this is a political move to help the Republicans. I do not see this helping or hurting Obama's campaign.
Look at what you just said. Yes, using diplomacy rather than military options makes Bush seem more reasonable, but it makes McCain seem less reasonable by comparison, like he is behind the curve. Bush softening his policy does not help McCain with his "100 years war" problem unless McCain softens his policy as well --- then he would be vulnerable to a flip-flop label on what he touts as his strongest issue.
Bush taking policy positions that he has in the past argued against, and that Obama has argued for bolsters the idea that Obama has been right and Bush has been wrong. It doesn not work in the favor of Republicans. They are left in the position of either saying Bush is right now, and Obama was right all along. Or Bush is wrong now and leading the country even further in the wrong direction.
I see these shifts in policy as positive for the country and very necessary, but I don't think they help Republicans politically, especially not McCain.
Bush is Finally Seeing the Wisdom of Obama's Positions
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonrider
I see these shifts in policy as positive for the country and very necessary, but I don't think they help Republicans politically, especially not McCain.
So by your reasoning.. what's positive for the country is not positive for the Republicans?
Now THAT makes no sense.
Bush is Finally Seeing the Wisdom of Obama's Positions
Quote:
Originally Posted by daihashi
So by your reasoning.. what's positive for the country is not positive for the Republicans?
Now THAT makes no sense.
That is not exactly my reasoning...
I am saying that Bush changing his position to be closer to Obama's does not help Republicans and definitely does not help McCain.
Obama can point to the shift and say, "See, I was right all along and now Bush has FINALLY caught up to my thinking. Hopefully McCain will change his position to be more like mine as well." So, it's not that doing what's positive for the country is not positive for the Republicans --- it's that changing course to do the right thing highlights the fact that you were wrong before and your opponent was right. It's one of the reasons that politics sucks.
We'll see how it works out.
Bush is Finally Seeing the Wisdom of Obama's Positions
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonrider
That is not exactly my reasoning...
I am saying that Bush changing his position to be closer to Obama's does not help Republicans and definitely does not help McCain.
Obama can point to the shift and say, "See, I was right all along and now Bush has FINALLY caught up to my thinking. Hopefully McCain will change his position to be more like mine as well." So, it's not that doing what's positive for the country is not positive for the Republicans --- it's that changing course to do the right thing highlights the fact that you were wrong before and your opponent was right. It's one of the reasons that politics sucks.
We'll see how it works out.
So why is it when Obama does something like this.. like let's say adopting the idea of the "surge" for himself.. that it's a positive thing, but when a republican adopts an idea from the left it is seeing as being a negative impact. I truely hope Obama is smarter than to start pointing fingers suggesting that he was right; because there are countless issues Republicans can point back at Obama if they want to play that game.
Your statement doesn't make sense. You said so yourself "what's good for the country". Which it is a popular view of what is good for the country. Originally McCain didn't give a timetable for withdrawal and now he's given a semi quasi date for withdrawal.
IT is obvious that republicans are shifting gears to head more towards the center just like Obama is. They are trying to gather the vote base who have not decided and are just fluttering about trying to make up their minds.
Again this is simply a political move aimed to draw more of the undecided votes to the republican base. After all, when the majority of Americans have expressed their discontent with the Iraq situation.. who is going to vote for a candidate whose party just threw the nation into another war.
This is neither positive or negative for Obama. This is simply republicans trying to tide things over until the election year is done.
Bush is Finally Seeing the Wisdom of Obama's Positions
It's not something that can be settled with debate --- We'll just have to see how it plays out. My opinion is that Bush changing his position to open diplomatic channels to Iran and to discuss a "time horizon" for troop withdrawal in Iraq are not motivated by the election and will not work in favor of Republicans, even if these moves were intended that way.
Bush is Finally Seeing the Wisdom of Obama's Positions
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonrider
Bush softening his policy does not help McCain with his "100 years war" problem unless McCain softens his policy as well.
How long have we been in Japan and Germany? Are we still at war there? LMAO....
Have a good one!:s4:
Bush is Finally Seeing the Wisdom of Obama's Positions
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycho4Bud
How long have we been in Japan and Germany? Are we still at war there? LMAO....
Have a good one!:s4:
You don't have to convince me --- I know what he meant when he made the "100 years" statement. I'm talking about what shit sticks to him on this, not necessarily what is "right." McCain might have been talking about bases, like in Germany and Japan, not an occupation, but it still plays to the idea that McCain wants troops there a long time, when Obama does not, and al-Maliki does not, and now Bush is backing off that idea too. It leaves McCain looking like the only one and plays to the war monger image. And even if he was just talking about bases, like in Germany and Japan, not an occupation, if you have Obama saying he does not want permanent bases, and al-Maliki saying he does not want permanent bases, if Bush make any move toward that kind of committment, then McCain will be left even more out on the fringe.
Bush is Finally Seeing the Wisdom of Obama's Positions
Here's a link to a Time magazine opinion piece that is making basically the same point I was trying to make.
McCain's Foreign Policy Frustration - TIME
McCain is being left behind by events, and it makes him look out of touch and not flexible in the face of changing situations around the world. Bush makes two shifts in policy, sending diplomats to speak with the Iranians and speaking about a "time horizon" in Iraq, but McCain hasn't shifted his policy too.
Foreign policy was supposed to be McCain's strength, but events are not turing his way, and he's not adapting as they change. He looks inflexible.
The article makes another point which is interesting. It says basically Obama and McCain both have points about Iraq, but Obama's are more important than McCains. Obama's points are strategic in nature, while McCain's are tactical.
Quote:
Obama had been right about the war in the first place. It was a disastrous idea, a phenomenal waste of lives and American credibility that diverted focus from our real enemy, al-Qaeda in Afghanistan and Pakistan.
And Obama was right about the war now: the progress in Iraq was enabling a quicker withdrawal ?? a plan already hinted at by Bush.
And Obama was right about the future: the Iraqis don't want long-term U.S. bases on their territory, a McCain keystone and the source of his infamous comment about staying in Iraq for 100 years.
McCain's piece of the truth was tactical: he was right about the surge and right about the brilliance of David Petraeus' battle plan, which had helped quiet down Iraq.
If McCain loses his foreign policy advantage over Obama, he's got nothing.
