Do you think we should ask and involve nurses to fix the Health care system?

I do, who better knows the ropes. They see (and listen)first hand what the patients are in need of and are lacking.
I dont think a chump like McCain and a Loser like Obama can do squat for our health care..
I mean would you ask a baker how to change the Flux capacitor in the Delorean. No, you would ask doc brown..

I dont think greedy chumps on capital hill, or greedy Doctors are the key.
Ask the people who have been bedside with people going thru hell and show love and compassion for their patients. The ones who have done this for decades without all the glory and the riches that are made in the Health care ..

I might of not hit the nail on the head, but I just feel we need to involve people in areas that they know and love..

Are nurses greedy too?
Thats probably the biggest issue with healthcare that will always keep it out of the reach of lower income people. Everybody just getting to rich off of people's misery.

I dont think nurses are greedy.. I make shit compared to other fields in medical field. That doesn't mean EVERY nurse is perfect and is in it for the patient, just most..

It's an interesting idea, but I don't think nurses would know exactly what model of medical system would work best. BUT, I agree with you 100% that their insights would be invaluable, and it's time we start listening to somebody who isn't a mega-wealthy beurocrat figuring out how many loafs of bread we'll throw to the peasants today.

My mother and my sister are both nurses, and they work rediculously hard. What's more rediculous, though, is how grossly under-appreciated they are. The provincial government here cut their wages 15% a couple years ago, then voted themselves a 25% raise 2 months later (with a 50% increase for the Premeir himself)! I was so infurriated, and you can bet my mom and sister were. Nurses work incredibly hard, especially through those frequent 12-hour shifts, and they're about the last occupation that deserves a pay cut.

Of course a lot of people might think their work is like those misleading nurse-recruitment commercials where it's all touching music, smiles and laughs, fluffing pillows for appreciative patients. Riiiiight... The horror stories laden with shit and blood somehow make me doubt that image. :wtf:

I think nurses should definitely be involved in helping us arrive at health care reform. Ideally we'd have representation from everyone involved. Payors. Patients. Nurses. Doctors. Hospitals. That'd be ideal. Because it's not just a matter of what nurses think or what patients do. We have to consider all sides. What a novel concept it would be to represent each involved entity in the creation of health care that actually serves people's health (and our country's).

Nurses are underpaid, it's true. I do hope you'll re-examine your claim that physicians are greedy, however. The last thing people go through four years of A+ college work, four years of grueling study in medical school, and up to 7 years of residency training for is money. If it were greed for money, believe me, no one would ever make it through. There's much more money to be made in other fields. Physicians work that hard because they're interested in helping people and in medical science. The pay in some specialties is quite high, it's true. But you'll be hard put to find physicians in specialties other than cash-for-service fields such as cosmetic surgery who are getting wealthy. Just make sure you're aware of that before you denigrate professionals who work this hard to achieve a medical degree and certification and write them off as greedy. Greedy people don't have to work this hard, frankly.

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Originally Posted by birdgirl73

. I do hope you'll re-examine your claim that physicians are greedy, however. The last thing people go through four years of A+ college work, four years of grueling study in medical school, and up to 7 years of residency training for is money.

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k, a MASSIVE amount of Dr's are in it for the money. but its only my opinion.

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Originally Posted by wheresmylighternow

k, a MASSIVE amount of Dr's are in it for the money. but its only my opinion.

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I certainly understand that that's your opinion. And you're welcome to it. I also know, as a medical student and the wife of someone who's already finished med school and been practicing cardiology--working an average of 14 hours a day, five to six days a week, for 25 years--that it's a level of work no one who's not been through this training or profession can ever begin to appreciate or conceive of. The moment you get into it and try it for yourself, you'll see, real quickly, that it is not about money. Money's a nice by product for the specialties that earn large amounts of it. But money's not what motivates people to work this hard. It's an interest in the work itself and the people it serves.

Apply. Go to med school. Begin doing the work. You'll see what I mean real fast.

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Originally Posted by birdgirl73

Apply. Go to med school. Begin doing the work. You'll see what I mean real fast.

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Or if you live in the UK just get a job in McDonald's as you will earn more money there than in British medicine.

NCM

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Originally Posted by birdgirl73

working an average of 14 hours a day, five to six days a week, for 25 years--that it's a level of work no one who's not been through this training or profession can ever begin to appreciate or conceive of.

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Its true that medical school and the world of medicine in general is INSANELY competitive, but I think you're going a little far there. I come from Bogota, Colombia, where I briefly worked at a repair garage, earning Less than $1.50 an hour. A buddy of mine working there was supporting his entire family, so he was there pretty much any time that he wasnt sleeping. A med student or nurse in the United States works their ass off for a long time, but there is a future in it, and i would venture to guess that most of their working environment is at least air conditioned. A lot of the world outside the U.S. doesn't even have a clean municipal water system.

I'm sure what you've been through has been testing, but please keep in mind that you aren't the only one out there that works hard.

Cap'n Dank, I think you got sidetracked from the thread topic a bit and misunderstood. I never said others don't work hard in other parts of the world. They do--and for paltry salaries, too.

In this thread above, we were discussing the effort versus financial rewards for American physicians, not the comparative effort others in other jobs and industries and working conditions around the world expend. So when I said that anyone who's not been through that level of study, long-hour workdays, and dedication to professional achievement can't really conceive how money alone doesn't keep a body going, I was referring to an understanding within the scope of the health care industry here in the United States.

Again, I'm aware that others work plenty hard all over. Goodness knows they work in awful conditions and for not nearly enough money. I've never disputed that. I just want to continue to emphasize that no American physician in his right mind goes willingly into this level of effort for nothing more than money. There's not any amount of money in the world that compensates for the effort we have to put into it. We tend to be reasonably intelligent high-achieving types, so if it were all about the money alone, we could go off into other professions like being a corporate executive or an entrepreneur or a rap star and earn a ton more. From the looks of my professors and the attendings on staff at the medical center where I'm doing rotations, I daresay power is a far greater motivator than money.

The topic at hand remains how we restore American health care to an institution that works well for the citizens it serves. And the answer, interestingly, in no way involves paying physicians more. It lies in restoring the voice that patients and physicians/practitioners have in making health care decisions together and in not letting big businesses who're motivated only by saving money through denial of care force decisions upon patients and practitioners that result in damage to their health and, in plenty of cases like denied transplants and cancer treatments, even in death.

Thanks Birdgirl for the insight. It is common to think of Doctors as overpaid and money hungry. Your perspective was a much needed balancing of insight.
There is no question other people work hard...

I still think the biggest issue with healthcare is the money. Its getting out of reach for more and more people every day. And there's a reason. People profiting of the misery of other people. People are just being paid to much in the healthcare field. All the way from the CEO's of the health insurance companies to hospital administrators to nurses. I think they would all be able to bring something to the table to find a solution. But I think maybe we need some legislation that the people would vote on to decide the direction we want out healthcare system to take. Do we just want healthcare for the rich or should everybody be able get reasonable healthcare without selling the home?