Guard dog training from puppyhood?

OK so I have the cutest new addition to our family and a few things I'm not sure how to go about.

Here are the facts...
Tucker is a 12 wk old PB Golden Retriever. Comes from great parents. He is quick to learn and eger to please. He came with my brother and his large family from across the country and has been very socialized with people. We are working on house training but in the 3 days I've been able to work with him since everyone left he knows sit, laydown, come, PPSSTT!(bad/don't do that), roll, and how to walk on a leash.
We wanted him as a family dog, one to bond with our 2 year old and go everywhere with us. So far everytime we take him out everyone wants to touch and meet him. My husband brought up last night that if we keep letting everyone meet him he'll just run off with any one. That go me thinking. I need to know what I want from him later so I know how to approach what to teach him now and how to do it.

So here is what I want him to do...

-Be a well mannered dog that can go everywhere with us, to peoples houses, traveling, the beach, the park, the carnival, outdoor concerts and beerfests.

-To want to please and listen to only us, not everyone else. I don't want to lose control of my dog. I don't want some one to walk up to him and walk off with him. We want the type of dog you tell to sit and gaurd you cooler or bike and he does.

-To gaurd our home, but still allow people over. If some one is skulking around our yard I want him to bark and scare them off. If a friend comes over I want to be alerted and for them to be able to get to the door. But at the same time I want to teach him to protect certain "plants" and garage/room from everyone, even friends, just incase some are a little nosey.

-I also want to be able to teach it different levels of "attack mode". You know levels like look scary but stand there, then act scary but don't hurt them, then we want a I'm in trouble chew his ass.

Please don't get me wrong I know none of this is simple. It takes alot of time attention and training in stages. I am home 24/7 with him, and do know the basics of dog training to the point of having a well balanced, mannered dog. But I don't know how to incorperate the next step in my training ablilities. I have lots of time to figure this out but want a game plan so I can avoid bad habits now, and take advantage of teaching oppertunities.

Anyone have any good tips or reading material?

Then you need something other than a golden retriever OR get yourself a good professional trainer. Or both.

Taking a breed that generally loves people and trying to get it to not like people is a difficult job..... and not reccomended for the type of dog you have.

Dogs have very good instincts when protecting their pack or, in this case, your family and home - an your's sounds very intelligent.

I agree that professional training would probably be necessary to make him a real guard dog, but probably wouldn't be a good idea due to his, and the breed's, disposition.

Good luck with your new pet! I'm envious.

lol who was I kidding. I can't let any one even touch him when we are out, he is way too friendly and wants to go home with them.

You would be surprised, as friendly as a golden retriever is when it comes down to business they are tough. My friend was walking his when he was around 10 years old by a nearby park when a lose rotweiller(sp?) came and started growling at him. When it tried to attack the GR showed the rotty what was up and sent it off whimpering with its tail (or lack thereof) between its legs...

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Originally Posted by Chronic Chrissy

lol who was I kidding. I can't let any one even touch him when we are out, he is way too friendly and wants to go home with them.

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People like dogs who like people as a rule. A golden is a super-friendly, beautiful, water-loving breed that will faithfully carry anything you leave lying on the ground around FOREVER. We used to have one and we called him "glue lips"

Goldens are a great breed. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

I love him so much he is such a good dog! He is always looking to us to see what we want and takes it very personally if we scold him, we have to remember to give him a good rub down and lots of loving so he knows we forgive him. He's teething right now and we barely ever catch him with one of our daughters toys(which are absolutely everywhere) he knows which are his and remembers if he shouldn't play with it. We just love our Tucker!:D

goldens are a great breed, but not one to get into protection work...Its just not in them. You may be able to teach them to bark, but you wont be able to count on them for that. I started training dogs with service dogs for disabled vets. I.E. turn on/off lights, open fridge, seizure response dogs, and such. I now train mainly Shutzhund, Personal Protection, and Basic Obedience. (need to do obedience to make a living.)
My point being, GRs were GREAT for service work, because of there soft, open nature towards most humans, and their almsot NEED to please.
Believe it or not, I am a FIRM believer in APBT. I have one, he is shutzhund trained, and plays with 2 year olds all the time. My father in law even lets his kids play with Manson. Pits are VERY loyal, and protective by nature.
Im stoned, thats why I am jumping all around. Bear with me.:jointsmile:
You will DEFINITELY want a professional trainer regardless. There is a very fine line between teaching a dog to protect, and teaching a dog to attack. Not a chance I would recommend taking.
Have any questions, post em, Im subscribed:thumbsup:
whiskeytango

shutzhund is what you wanna look into if you want a protective dog that you can still have as a family pet. Personal Protection dogs, not so much....

I have been a dog owner for several years and noticed that almost every dog senses when someone means you harm and will protect you and your family when needed. Plus training a dog to be mean is never a good idea even under the best control. You can never be with the dog 100% of the time to determine when something is a threat for her. Plus when they get into the senior years this may be detrimental when the vision and hearing start to go. I have seen dogs snap when startled during this period of life and the possibillty of this will be increased if trained to attack a threat.

Yes you have one of the most friendly breeds out there also one of the most intelligent. I owned a lab and they have very simmilar personalities. One thing about them is if they wander off. THEY will find their way back, unless nabbed by the dog pound. Even if someone tries to keep them, there instincts are you are home and will run away the first chance they get and try to find you. I read stories about dogs finding their way home over great odds and unbelievable distances, and they are almost always a lab or retriever bread.

Best of luck with your puppy, Great Choice Of Bread.

no one would dare to rob you if you had a dog like this..

or maybe the second one might be better.. Hes got his brown eye on you..

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Originally Posted by illnillinois

no one would dare to rob you if you had a dog like this..

or maybe the second one might be better.. Hes got his brown eye on you..

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Hahahaha...

Anyways We seem to be experiencing a little puppy regression. He's starting to get way more interested in playing and toys. He used to quickly lock in on us and come running when we called "come", but now he's more easily distracted. H thinks I'm not doing it right I'm trying to tell him in the long run I am. He thinks that if the dog doesn't come I should go get him. But I think that would quickly turn into a game of chase. I figure that I keep calling him and encouraging him to come to me, and when he does even if it takes a little bit longer than it should I Praise him and pet him, in hope that he always connects the word come with a postive feeling that he wants. H thinks I should give him shit when he finally gets there, but when I think like a dog, that would just teach me to not like reponding, or thinking I was doing something wrong. Anyways he is just under 4 months I figure it is just a puppy phase we have to work through.

If a dog only needed one command I would say "come" would be it, ultimately to me this is the one most important commands I can communicate and when he is older I want immediate reponse. Everything else is important too, but I need him to know "come" like a Pro.

find a trainer that can teach him to be aggressive when the Master commands it.. Not sure if that breed of dog is going to be.. also keep in mind teaching it commands in another language, great for not allowing the attacker to call off the attack..

Your correct in your reasoning.

Keep in mind at four months you are dealing with a 3 year old in human terms. When training and the dog is distracted you need to get its attention using a toy or some noise maker, a clicker works great for this and can be used to teach it basic commands.

JG

That's true.....if he doens't come you need to go get him....and if it turns into a game of chase then your dog is untrained. Letting him decide when he feels like following your commands (in a minute Mom.....I'm busy......) is NOT training. In fact....it's the opposite. The idea of training is for the dog to accept your word......right now and to respond immediately and not the fourth, fifth etc time you call him or give him a command or really pretty much whenever he feels like it.

If your 3 year old child acted the same way ( yeah i'm coming.....eventually...maybe......) would you have him out anywhere around danger....say the street or something? Of course not.....because you know he doesn't listen to your reliably and can't be trusted. Why is your pup any different?

Also NEVER call your dog to you and then punish him. Can you say ridiculous oxymoron???!!! :wtf:

Consider some good puppy classes.....trust me.....dogs DONT think like people REGARDLESS of how many people think they do. Learn how your dog think and you'll be home free. ;)

Good luck.

Practice the 'come' command on a really long, LIGHTWEIGHT lead like a thin minimal-stretch nylon cord with a carabiner on the end. The point is to make the dog forget you are holding his leash. Let him wander off, with NO tension on the leash, then say his name and 'COME' in yoru command voice. He won't get it at first, so give the lead a slight tug towards you until he is at your feet, saying 'COME' while you do it. When he gets to you, praise him a lot and give him a treat (retrievers + food= : D). Repeat many times, until the dog comes without any tension on the leash. Then practice!

Eventually you won't need a treat; in fact only use treats for the INITIAL reinforcement so that he does not come to expect them. My friend made a huge mistake training her lab by ALWAYS having treats, even after the behaviour was already understood and learned. Now she has a stubborn dog that will only work for food, and it's taking a long time to get her out of that mindset.

We live pretty off the grid so puppy classes aren't really an option. As for the "come issue" he never takes off right out of sight or runs and doesn't stop. I'd say about 50 ft is as far as he's gotten and I've never really had to spend more than 3-4 minute before he comes back.

New issue though. Tucker has been going to the neighbors. At first it was occasional but they would pet him and play with him then call me and say he was over there, usually after taking him into the house and playing with the kids. I told them to stop it and if he goes over there to give him shit and shoo him back. I also told them that if they want to do that now then they better expect a full grown dog to think that their yard is his yard in the future. So I go over there today and see my puppy poo by their driveway. When I asked them about it they said he was in their yard all morning( I was making play doh with my daughter and he whined to go out, I had doh on the stove and sticky hands so I didn't tie him). Why they couldn't yell at him out the door I dson't know.

The goal is to have him stay in the yard without having to be tied, but he will be if need be. I've had alot of people tell me taht if we tie him all the time now he'll most likely take off every time we let him off. So I guess what I'm asking next is how to teach him the boundries of the yard and unteach what he learnt from the neighbors. They come over with their kids some times, should I not let them play with him or see him at all?

We both have 100 foot wide lots and our houses are about 35 ft from ours there is a definate tree line between our houses of spuce trees. He sometimes hides in the shade under them or plays with his toys but there are lots of other places for him to do this. Should the trees themselves on that side be off limits to create a buffer?

Thanks guys, I'd just rather get this all started now while he is young instead of undoing everything when he is older.

Get a fence or plan on spending the next three weeks sitting outside with him like glue.

And dont' bother blaming the neighbors for your wandering dog young lady.

You sound like an owner who hasn't heard the dollar theory so I offer it now. Dogs live and die by the dollar theory so its something you need to strongly consider in training.

The key to training is consistency No excuses...no being "too busy" no blaming others......every single time you want a certain response from the dog you had better be prepared to make that response happen. THATS dog training.

There are three scenarios to the dollar theory.

1. I ask to borrow a dollar from you. You loan me one. Next time I need a dollar I will CERTAINLY come to you and ask again.

2. I ask to borrow a dollar. You say no. I try several times but always get the same answer....no. Afer a few tries I stop asking you because I'm not getting what I want.

3. I ask to borrow a dollar. You loan me one.....SOMETIMES. (you know.....extenuating circumstances like play doh and such......). If sometimes you loan me one and sometimes you don't.......am I or am I NOT going to repeat the same behavior and see if I can get what I want. What do YOU think??

And along that same line.......once certain behavior is learned it a LOT HARDER to untrain so every single time you vary your response in training you are STILL teaching your dog something whether you think you are or not.

In other words.....take the time to do it right the first four or five times rather than spending countless HOURS undoing bad habits. Two or three times is ALL IT TAKES for a smart dog or pup to figure out something that works for them and to remember it for future use.

Don't let him out to poop off leash yet. Every time he needs to go out, he's got to be leashed, and walk him around the perimiter of HIS yard and let him mark HIS territory. Don't let him past where you want him to think is HIS.

Establishing territory boundaries is part of training a new dog. It's easier when the breed is already territorial- my old Boxer x was VERY easy and it only took a couple weeks of leashed pooping before she figured it out. Same goes for the road- it's NOT his territory and you should scold him if he tries to go into the street without YOUR permission.

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Originally Posted by Weedhound

Get a fence or plan on spending the next three weeks sitting outside with him like glue.

And dont' bother blaming the neighbors for your wandering dog young lady.

You sound like an owner who hasn't heard the dollar theory so I offer it now. Dogs live and die by the dollar theory so its something you need to strongly consider in training.

The key to training is consistency No excuses...no being "too busy" no blaming others......every single time you want a certain response from the dog you had better be prepared to make that response happen. THATS dog training.

There are three scenarios to the dollar theory.

1. I ask to borrow a dollar from you. You loan me one. Next time I need a dollar I will CERTAINLY come to you and ask again.

2. I ask to borrow a dollar. You say no. I try several times but always get the same answer....no. Afer a few tries I stop asking you because I'm not getting what I want.

3. I ask to borrow a dollar. You loan me one.....SOMETIMES. (you know.....extenuating circumstances like play doh and such......). If sometimes you loan me one and sometimes you don't.......am I or am I NOT going to repeat the same behavior and see if I can get what I want. What do YOU think??

And along that same line.......once certain behavior is learned it a LOT HARDER to untrain so every single time you vary your response in training you are STILL teaching your dog something whether you think you are or not.

In other words.....take the time to do it right the first four or five times rather than spending countless HOURS undoing bad habits. Two or three times is ALL IT TAKES for a smart dog or pup to figure out something that works for them and to remember it for future use.

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Everything here makes sense and is not new to me. I understand and practise consistancy about 95% of the time and make sure every one else does too. If you tell him to do something you better be prepared to follow through and make him do what you want(my husband hates this rule).

I know at this point I am justifying my excuse for my wandering dog but these are the only neighbors of all 4 sides all sides that I have this issue with. He knows his lines on every other side including the road, and knows he is not to cross them and always looks to us to retrieve what he is wanting(depending on what it is he may get it, the ball I threw too far, yes. The cat that is allowed to leave the yard, no. And the cat goes to the other naeighbors not this ones so she is not the bad influence.). Even the neighbors across the street who walk their dog by everyday. They came into the yard if they want to say hello then when they leave Tucker sits about 20 feet from the road on our driveway and dances as they leave but never follows.(I watch him every morning at this time like clockwork).

He's finally made the connection that when he whines he goes outside and and that is where he is supposed to go, not on the floor. But I have made the connection that he is a puppy with a small bladder, and if I don't let him out I get a nice steamy present that he is trying to hold in, but even as he runs it just leaves a trail of turds.

But you are right I shouldn't be making excuses.
So how do I fix this now before it developes more?

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Originally Posted by stinkyattic

Don't let him out to poop off leash yet. Every time he needs to go out, he's got to be leashed, and walk him around the perimiter of HIS yard and let him mark HIS territory. Don't let him past where you want him to think is HIS.

Establishing territory boundaries is part of training a new dog. It's easier when the breed is already territorial- my old Boxer x was VERY easy and it only took a couple weeks of leashed pooping before she figured it out. Same goes for the road- it's NOT his territory and you should scold him if he tries to go into the street without YOUR permission.

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You see he only poops and pees in the drive way though, even when we go for walks he comes home and does his stuff in the drive way most of the time and looks like we caught him pissing in the house if he goes anywhere else and can't hold it till we get back. Even at the neighbors it was on the driveway, go figure. I have never yet come across a turd in the yard and we are out there all the time. He is always leashed when we walk or even go down the road and back. My 2 year old can walk him no problem right now and he listens to her and pays attention.

Aww....they're gonna be the best of buddies.....growing up together. I didn't get my first dog until I was 10......it's great to grow up with a good dog like a nice golden. :thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Weedhound

Aww....they're gonna be the best of buddies.....growing up together. I didn't get my first dog until I was 10......it's great to grow up with a good dog like a nice golden. :thumbsup:

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I wish I could post pics safely. I know everyone says they have the cutest kid but I really do, and with tucker right there to they look like they belong on a hallmark card. This dog occupys 60% of her time awake, the other 40% of the time she has that damned ferret under her arm carrying him around the house. So wqe are going on vacation for 2 weeks and both the pets are coming too. The ferret started here in manitoba, then went out to new brunswick. then when my brother came back through he brought the ferret and the dog. Now we are heading back out to new brunswick for two weeks and back again. These animals(and my poor pt cruiser) are going to have alot of miles on them.

Now if I could just get him to stay away from the neighbors.....

WH and stinks hit it on the head, no need to ellaborate Charlie Charlie...:jointsmile:
Illin, you dont make guard dogs aggressive. My pit is INSANELY protective (shutzhund) and isn't aggressive at all.Kids play with him all the time.If you train them right, they will be able to differentiate ill will, and playing....Protective DOES NOT = aggressive Me and my friends can wrestle and manson wont do shit...But if you walk creeping up on me, thats your ass....they are trained for specific behaviors....like when i trained seizure response dogs, you train them by a series of twitches in your faces and arms while in a wheelchair....
I could make faces all day long at the dog, but until I made the "seizure" motions, it would not respond and hit the buzzer....

The biggest mistakes dog owners make is using people reasoning with dogs. Like WH said, no matter how much expression and character our dogs have, they are not, nor do they think like humans. Understand how they think, and you have got half of dog training nailed....
just my :twocents:
:joint1:
whiskeytango

Well the driveway problem is a territorial thing. It is the first place that he has marked as his. You will need to walk him in the area you want him to go untill he goes then praise, Repeat several times, then over time he will go there more often than not.

Also if a fence is out of the question I highly recommed getting an invisable fence ( much cheaper and effective ) also retreivers love to explore and will wander off if not restrained while unsupervised.

I would hate to see the day you have to tell your child that Tucker was killed by a car.

JG

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Originally Posted by SnSstealth

WH and stinks hit it on the head, no need to ellaborate Charlie Charlie...:jointsmile:
Illin, you dont make guard dogs aggressive. My pit is INSANELY protective (shutzhund) and isn't aggressive at all.Kids play with him all the time.If you train them right, they will be able to differentiate ill will, and playing....Protective DOES NOT = aggressive Me and my friends can wrestle and manson wont do shit...But if you walk creeping up on me, thats your ass....they are trained for specific behaviors....like when i trained seizure response dogs, you train them by a series of twitches in your faces and arms while in a wheelchair....
I could make faces all day long at the dog, but until I made the "seizure" motions, it would not respond and hit the buzzer....

The biggest mistakes dog owners make is using people reasoning with dogs. Like WH said, no matter how much expression and character our dogs have, they are not, nor do they think like humans. Understand how they think, and you have got half of dog training nailed....
just my :twocents:
:joint1:
whiskeytango

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When my brother came through town Lady his dog of 8 years came with him. She was great with the kids and they could do anything to her, literally. My kid was the one to stick her finger up her ass(funny yet horrifying at the time) and she just got up turned around and let her sit on her head. Anyways after the trip I asked before he left what kind of dog she was. yes she was a pure bred pitbull, and one of the best dogs I've ever seen with children. My damn brother didn't feed her for 2 days before they got to our place and her first meal was an old drum stick from the fridge, little Harry walked right up to her took it from her and stuck it in her ear of all places. She just patiently sat and waited till he was done then gulfed it down.

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Originally Posted by Jerry Garcia 2007

Well the driveway problem is a territorial thing. It is the first place that he has marked as his. You will need to walk him in the area you want him to go untill he goes then praise, Repeat several times, then over time he will go there more often than not.

Also if a fence is out of the question I highly recommed getting an invisable fence ( much cheaper and effective ) also retreivers love to explore and will wander off if not restrained while unsupervised.

I would hate to see the day you have to tell your child that Tucker was killed by a car.

JG

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I like tucker going in our driveway, it's easy to find and pick up all in one spot, just not the neighbors(today was the first time that's why I want to stop it before everything is marked and it happens again.

You're the pack leader- you tell the dog where he's allowed to crap, and if you want it in the driveway, hey, it's in the driveway. But as he's maturing the pissing/marking thing is still a really useful behavior to use for training, because he's going to be leaving scent marks around the yard, not only pissing because he's got to pee. So again, take him out on the leash and walk him around the edge of your property, and praise him for taking interest in things and marking them. He's making himself a dog version of an invisible fence! It won't keep him from crossing it, but that part is up to you to train him.

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Originally Posted by stinkyattic

You're the pack leader

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Yes I am! Sorry I couldn't resist. But ask anybody I'm in charge of this whole pack and I make sure any animal or person coming in knows it. I watched enough Dog whisperer while I was pregnant to learn about the basic of how dog communicate in their pack, and just kept reading everything I could after that.

I'll piss on your(not you stinky) leg and you try to make me take it back, WOOF!