Are you voting FOR a candidate or for the lesser of two evils?

In a lot of elections, you hear people say they aren't happy with either of their choices so they are voting for the person they dislike the least --- the lesser of two evils.

For example, I'm a registered Democrat and I voted for Gore over Bush, not because I was excited about Gore, but because I really did not like Bush. And I voted for Kerry, not because I was excited about Kerry, but because by that point I really hated Bush.

Here's a quote from P4B about how he has had to pick the lesser of two evils in the past, and how he thinks this election is the same kind of choice again:

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Originally Posted by Psycho4Bud

ONCE AGAIN it's not a vote for who we like but a vote against the other. I've voted for Republicans, Democrats, and Independents in the past and the only ones that I can honestly say that I "voted for" was Reagan, and Perrot. B. Clinton also received my vote in his second term due to who he was running against.

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Sometimes it's the whole country who feels like the are picking the lesser of two evils, and sometimes it is only one party. In 2004, I don't think either party was truly excited about their pick --- Democrats were just hoping to get rid of Bush, and Republicans had to stick with the sitting president. But in 1988, it was only the Democrats who felt they were picking the lesser of two evils --- Republicans loved Reagan.

One thing that I have noticed in this election is that it's Republicans who say they are planning to vote for the lesser of two evils, while it is Democrats who are planning to vote for their candidate. Republicans do not seem excited about McCain --- they seem to mostly be voting against Obama. While Democrats seem to be voting for Obama.

In fact it seems to me that even though Democrats are mostly really excited about Obama, they are also pretty much OK with McCain --- so Democrats seem to see the race as picking the best of two good choices, while it's the Republicans who see it as picking the lesser of two evils. It's funny that Democrats are almost warmer to McCain than a lot of his very conservative base --- but not enough to pull them away from thier best choice, Obama.

And this is why I think Obama will win the election. It's a lot easier to win if people are voting for you because they like you than it is to win if the only reason they vote for you is they don't like the other guy.

So who are you voting for and why? Are you picking someone you are exctied about or just the lesser of two evils?

I'm excitied to be voting for Obama. I think he will steer this country away from disasterous policies we have been following for the last 8 years, and he will begin to make real progress on some serious problems that are of i9mportatnce to me --- environmental issues, energy issues, economic issues, healthcare issues. I like most of the things he has proposed. I think he is going to win and also sweep in enough Democratic Congressmen and Senators that he will have a very good chance of getting his policies implemented.

My vote for Obama is not a vote against McCain. I have a lot of respect for McCain, but I like Obama's policies better. I wish McCain had beat Bush in the primaries in 2000, because I think he would have been a decent president for the last 8 years, but now I think McCain's time has passed.

i hear this argued alot. lesser of 2 evil.
theres no such thing
theres evil and theres evil
theres good and theres evil


perfect example bush was the lesser evil compared to gore. he was a christian and talked good. bush is the biggest war criminal out times(evil)

I'm voting for Ron Paul. Screw the other 2 assholes.

Well, I was hoping for more participation on this poll by now. Oh well.

At this point we have a total of 10 votes. The largest number of votes was cast for "not voting all." Ha ha! I'm guessing those are dusgruntled Republican's who won't even vote for McCain to stop Obama, but who knows.

The winner of the election is Obama. He gets 4 of the remaining 7 votes that were cast for actual candidates --- 57% of the popular vote. 2 of those votes were for cast for him because the voters were excited about him, and 2 were cast because he was the lesser of two evils.

Next we have 2 votes cast for Third Party Candidates -- 28% of the popular vote. Way to go Nader and Barr and any other Third Party Candidates! That is a respectable showing. 1 of those votes was for cast for the third parties because the voter was excited about the candidate, and 1 was cast because he was the lesser of two evils.

Poor John McCain is dead last with 1 vote --- 14% of the popular vote. That 1 lonely vote was not cast because the voter was excited about McCain, but because he was considered the lesser of two evils. Presumably this vote was cast by McCain himself, and it's just too bad he couldn't even muster any excitement for himself.

Anyway, this sample is so small and limited to canncom members, so it would be ridiculous to draw any conclusions, but it seems like a lot of people do vote for the lesser of two evils or consider the whole process so evil they won't even participate. 30% did not want to vote at all, and 40% voted as a protest against the opponent. That is sad. Only 30% of the respondents were excited about their choice.

Like I said, it would be ridiculous to draw conclusions from this poll. But I see this mirroring how I think this election will go to some extent. I think Obama has enough excitement behind him to win. I think some Republicans will be so demoralized and uninspired by McCain that they will just stay home, and others will vote for third party candidates. McCain will mostly get votes from people opposed to Obama, and it won't be enough to overcome enthusiasm in the Democratic party or malaise in the Republican party.

I'm putting a sticky on this until either 30 days have past since the last post OR if you request to have it dropped. As usual...GREAT THREAD!! :thumbsup:

LOL....I see the quote and held to my word; McCain....lesser of two evils.

Have a good one!:s4:

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Originally Posted by Psycho4Bud

I'm putting a sticky on this until either 30 days have past since the last post OR if you request to have it dropped. As usual...GREAT THREAD!! :thumbsup:

LOL....I see the quote and held to my word; McCain....lesser of two evils.

Have a good one!:s4:

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Thanks, P4B! With your vote you have closed the gap between Obama and McCain to only a 25% spread --- its still a statistical landslide! (Of course, with this few votes, that's only a 2 vote difference! Ha ha!) Hopefully a few more people will chime in and we'll get a better sample.

Thanks again.

I think most elections come down to "the lesser of two evils" , it's sort of like asking who do you want to shaft you this time around ? :D

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Originally Posted by psychocat

I think most elections come down to "the lesser of two evils" , it's sort of like asking who do you want to shaft you this time around ? :D

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Another way to look at is, which orifice do you prefer to be raped in?

I really lost faith in the election system after the Bush-Gore election. I mean, if popular vote don't do it, why bother? Everything I learned in school about the election process is a big joke, so I was pissed off at the whole system for a while.
However... I am slowly getting more excited about Obama being elected. I see him surrounding himself with some great Democrats, and maybe, just maybe this election will be different. I truly hope so. I'm tired of saying "God... I hate that SOB" every time I see our president.:(

I'm voting for someone who I think will at least steer us away from Bush/Cheney type policies, which we have seen to be failures in many arenas.
HMFOT made the good point that it's easy to lose faith in the system at all after the voting scandals of the last go-round. I believe modern elections are bought, not won, and the electronic ballot concept scares me absolutely SHITLESS, especially since it has been an entire administration since the Florida scandal for them to tighten their death-grip on election manipulation.

I would have been able to say I was excited to be voting for Hils, had she made it this far, because I believe that she, like her husband before her, has both the strong personality and the sharp intelligence to make the office of President mean something again. This is not to say 'I like her'; I just think that it's stupid to look at a presidential race as 'who do you like?' when it really should be 'who has the strongest credentials to fulfill the job requirements?'. If you apply for a job, they look at your resume as well as have an interview, and offer salary based on the whole package. Sheeeeit. Bush shoulda had his damn pay docked for how much $$$ he is costing us... Clinton, for the skill he showed in fixing the economy, should have been given a fucking BONUS.

Fuck politics. We wouldn't need HALF the size government we've got now if we all had a good work ethic (Americans are groomed from a young age to desire executive/desk type jobs and shun manual labor) and learned to be less wasteful. There's no value put on a good days work any more, since some faceless nameless person on the other side of the world will do the same thing for 20 cents.

StinkyAttic..."float like a butterfly, sting like a bee"-Ali

Eh man, that's what happens when ya poke the hornets nest with a stick.
;)

Im real excited to be voting and supporting Obama I havent been this excited since B.Clinton. :rasta::rastasmoke::pimp:

I think AMERICANS got screwed.. They Stood behind who they wanted and "the" popular opinion was to Treat RON PAUL like shit..

Its a scam, doesn't matter who you choose. Your vote doesn't matter.. Thats a sad thing to admit for an american..


RED WHITE BLUE:rambo:<<<< McCain & Obama

~ Constantly choosing the lesser of two evils is still choosing evil. ~
Jerry Garcia

I do not know what to do.
:( I can not believe I will not heed the advice of the fat man :(

I do suppose I will probably vote Obama even though every Rebuplican bone in my body twinges with angst.

I do believe if some indpendant candidtate (maybe Congressman Paul from Texas) or someone of his stature ran I would vote with the Constitutional candidate :)

I want the quickest end to the war possible and at this point that pretty much means Obama is my best bet :( I am not happy about it!

I not going vote,Either way its a crappy choice.
Its like asking someone "would you rather get a kick in the nuts or sniff someones buttcrack"
I just would rather watch others decide for now.Doesnt seem like something I wanna do at the moment.

Time for another benchmark, now that we have a few more votes than last time.

So far 31 people have voted in the poll. 8 of those have said that they are not going to vote in the election because it is just too evil --- that's about a quarter of voters who are just plain disillusioned --- sad.

Taking out those 8, that leaves 23 actual votes. Of those 7 are voting for Obama because they are excited about him and 9 for Obama because he is the lesser of two evils. That's 16 for Obama --- so Obama takes 70% of the popluar vote! Yikes! Democratic landslide! Not to sound a partisan note here, but my belief is that we really will see a Democratic landslide in this election --- nothing like 70%, but decisive. This poll is very unscientific, of course, but I think what we are seeing in the real world is that Obama is generating more excitement among his voters and greater numbers overall, and at this point it bodes very well for him.

Next comes McCain with a total of 4 votes --- that's 17% of the popular vote. That's not a very good showing, and the other sad thing about it is that none of those 4 vates were cast for him because the voter was excited to vote for him. All 4 are because he was considered the lesser of two evils. I really believe that this is the root of McCain's problem in the real election (not just in this cancom poll!) --- no one is excited about him. You cannot win if the only people who vote for you are those who think you are the leser of two evils.

Following McCain are Third Party Candidates with 3 votes. That's just about 13%. Interestingly 2 of those votes are because the voters were actually excited about the candidate (presumably Nader or Barr). So Third Party Candidates are actually generating more excited voters than McCain is, but fewer votes total.

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Originally Posted by Psycho4Bud

I'm putting a sticky on this until either 30 days have past since the last post OR if you request to have it dropped. As usual...GREAT THREAD!! :thumbsup:

LOL....I see the quote and held to my word; McCain....lesser of two evils.

Have a good one!:s4:

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It's really going to be hard for me. But.... I agree... I'll vote for Mccain over a Socialist anyday.... Wow it was hard to say it. However if he continues with the "attacking Iran" Rhetoric, I may abstain from voting all together. I wouldent want to have the burden of voting for a guy who virtually started a WW3 situation. Did anyone catch the Q and A forum last night on the 2 Candidates? One thing I actually really liked about Mccain(cringe..) is that every question he was asked he gave a straightforward yes i support it or No I dont support it. Obama would go into some long speech dancing around the subject not giving a straight answer, I just cant stand that, it vex's me so bad I was almost yelling at the TV "Cant you give us just 1 Straight fucking answer and stop dancing around EVERY question?!". Rant off.

I don't see an option for what I'm voting for above because it's really more the political ideology than it is the candidate, I'm increasingly finding. I'll vote for Obama, and I'm somewhat excited about that but mostly because it's an opportunity to stand for that ideology. Call it socialist if you want. It's really conscientiousness and kindness to those less fortunate than it is socialism. At least for me that's what it's about. Real socialist doctrine is something far past American Democratic progressive politics.

I like Obama pretty well. I believe he's intelligent but he's also young and untried, especially on foreign policy. We've had good presidents come out of young and untried ones and bad ones, too, like Mr. Bush the Younger. Obama can inspire crowds with stand-up speeches but he didn't do as well in this personal forum format, I thought. He seemed to stumble and hesitate more and seemed, well, distant. I heard George Will say a few weeks back that he's called "elitist" by folks who are threatened by Ivy League education. "Distance" is a better word for what I saw last night. He didn't let folks see into his heart like McCain did. He didn't tell stories or charm the viewers and audience or engage on an emotional level like he needed to.

McCain did great. He said in his book that he normally keeps the POW stuff fairly private out of respect for his fellow prisoners and the ones who suffered much worse fates or even fatalities, but he milked it for all it was worth last night. If I were going for votes I'd have done the same thing. It worked to pull me in and make me sit up and listen to him.

I wasn't pleased with Obama's "faith forum" performance last night but I still believe in the ideology he represents, and so I'll support that and hope his performance will get better as he does more forums/debates. Even if it doesn't, I'll still be voting for that ideology. Can't do otherwise. I've been too lucky myself not to and seen too many others who haven't.

I thought Rick Warren did a good job of that forum. He asked good questions--questions that people would want to know the answers to--and then seemed to really listen to the answers. I'm in the process of altering my original opinion of him, too, just like I had to lower my expectations of my party's candidate last night. Only in Warren's case, I hold him in higher esteem than I did before. I didn't hold him in low esteem before--just thought he was sort of a media-preacher celebrity instead of a minister of any type of enlightenment.

I don't worry too much about who I vote for. Thats not why I vote. I vote for referendums and initiatives and levy's. These tend to be what I care about and effect me more on a personal level. My personal feeling is it doesn't matter who you vote for. If they're not a corrupt pig to begin with they will be within 6 months of being in office. So it just doesn't matter who you vote for. No matter what they say on election day every promise will be forgotten on Jan.1st

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Originally Posted by texas grass

perfect example bush was the lesser evil compared to gore. he was a christian and talked good.

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You got the Christian part right but anyone who thinks he is a good speaker is just nuts! or :stoned:

I'll start voting again when our votes directly count, and are the only votes that matter.

Oh, and add a few things to the ballot we can vote for... like a few economic issues, federal laws, just some things that we the majority could directly change IF given the chance.... things that affect our every day lives.

like...
A chance to keep or abolish the illegal IRS agency. A chance to get the Federal Reserve owned by the government (and it's citizens). A chance to stop government from controling what we can do with our bodies or put into them. etc... Just simple relevant things that should be on a ballot instead of the usual turd sandwich and giant douche.

I'm voting for McCain. It's a lesser of two evils sort of thing.

I don't like him that much, however I would never vote for Obama.

I hate McCain but I hate Obama MUCH, MUCH more.

I voted 'not voting' because I'm writing Ron Paul's name in...Barr wont get elected nor will Ron Paul...But I consider Barr a ripoff of Paul, because he wouldn't be running had ron paul ran third party..

I'd rather not vote for someone who's going to 'change' the country using his 3 years of experience as a legislator...I don't care what people say, he's fucking under qualified in my opinion. And certainly not the asshole who's going to 'bomb bomb bomb Iran..' Because he's obviously dilusional...As a POW they must've rewired him to be ignorant or something of sort..

i dont participate in popularity contests if i can help it. (not voting)

I was a Ron Paul supporter also.

I'm a Libertarian at heart. I registered Republican but that was mainly because in Pennsylvania you can only vote in the primary if your a Republican or Democrat. However I plan to vote full Libertarian for local political officers.

You have to start small but one day maybe we'll have a Libertarian in office.

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Originally Posted by Psycho4Bud

McCain....lesser of two evils.

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This baffles me. My parents use to talk about "lesser of two evils" when they voted republican, and looking back I wonder what those candidates could have done better (worse) to make them just good.

What don't you like about him? He's every bit as old school, religious and war mongering as they come. What more do you want from him? not just you p4b anyone who voted him as the lesser evil.

At this point in time, I'm voting for McCain because he would increase spending in the right places, which is good for me.

Obama has shown me nothing that impresses me to not vote based on my wallet.

I would say Obama, not cuz I'm fooled by his speeches like a groupie or believe whatever he promises, NO. almost every presidential candidates breaks some of promises when in office!

I vote Obama cuz I can't stand McCain/Palin ticket. McCain has agreed with 90% of what was done in the last 8 years by GW BUSH and thats just a big no no for me.
I Would have voted for Ron Paul had he stayed in race or had any chance of winning, but sadly none happened.

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Originally Posted by trancefusion5

You got the Christian part right but anyone who thinks he is a good speaker is just nuts! or :stoned:

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:S2::S2::S2:

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Originally Posted by GreenDestiny

I'll start voting again when our votes directly count, and are the only votes that matter.

Oh, and add a few things to the ballot we can vote for... like a few economic issues, federal laws, just some things that we the majority could directly change IF given the chance.... things that affect our every day lives.

like...
A chance to keep or abolish the illegal IRS agency. A chance to get the Federal Reserve owned by the government (and it's citizens). A chance to stop government from controling what we can do with our bodies or put into them. etc... Just simple relevant things that should be on a ballot instead of the usual turd sandwich and giant douche.

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"cat dreams of mice":D I really wish the above could happen, but this is something i find even harder than legalization of marijuana to achieve in this country!

the electoral college system makes no sense to me! - did u know those delegates CAN actually cast a vote different than their constituents? [this is what my government teacher said in college and left me :jawdropper:]

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Originally Posted by thcbongman

At this point in time, I'm voting for McCain because he would increase spending in the right places, which is good for me.

Obama has shown me nothing that impresses me to not vote based on my wallet.

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I don't see how the government spending a penny more in any place is good..this country's going bankrupt, and mcpain is just the guy to help finish driving our economy into the ground :thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by rebgirl420

I was a Ron Paul supporter also.

I'm a Libertarian at heart. I registered Republican but that was mainly because in Pennsylvania you can only vote in the primary if your a Republican or Democrat. However I plan to vote full Libertarian for local political officers.

You have to start small but one day maybe we'll have a Libertarian in office.

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My support for Ron Paul is present tense. He is the only politician I've ever heard talk and make much sense. His views are thinking outside the box, and inside the constitution, the document that once made this country great. But not anymore, our government now has way too much power, and is way too big, and costs way too much money. Offering solutions that haven't been brought to the table since this country was founded just seems like a good new way to go, rather than more of the same. (that would make a good mccain catch phrase)

I guess with you being a female though, you don't look at it like I do...Someone like Mccain is a threat to my life if he gets elected. I don't to be given a rifle and told to go get shot at in a giant sandbox, so that I can defend another person's country..I know for sure that Ron Paul's politics changed the way I look at things, I just hope it made as much of an impact on others as it did on me. If America had been thinking like that in the first place we wouldn't be in the mess we're in..

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Originally Posted by Markass

I just hope it made as much of an impact on others as it did on me.

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I was 150% disappointed in ALL politicians and generally the political system we have here. he reduced that to 99% and made me hopeful. he is 1 person and 1 exceptional public servant. needless to say he is A TRUE REPUBLICAN, original one!

I could not believe my eyes and ears the first time i encountered this guy. I was like this must be a foul dream, I must be too high! this cant be a US politician! but he is real and so is his message.

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Originally Posted by flyingimam

I was 150% disappointed in ALL politicians and generally the political system we have here. he reduced that to 99% and made me hopeful. he is 1 person and 1 exceptional public servant. needless to say he is A TRUE REPUBLICAN, original one!

I could not believe my eyes and ears the first time i encountered this guy. I was like this must be a foul dream, I must be too high! this cant be a US politician! but he is real and so is his message.

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Agreed, totally. :thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Markass

My support for Ron Paul is present tense. He is the only politician I've ever heard talk and make much sense. His views are thinking outside the box, and inside the constitution, the document that once made this country great. But not anymore, our government now has way too much power, and is way too big, and costs way too much money. Offering solutions that haven't been brought to the table since this country was founded just seems like a good new way to go, rather than more of the same. (that would make a good mccain catch phrase)

I guess with you being a female though, you don't look at it like I do...Someone like Mccain is a threat to my life if he gets elected. I don't to be given a rifle and told to go get shot at in a giant sandbox, so that I can defend another person's country..I know for sure that Ron Paul's politics changed the way I look at things, I just hope it made as much of an impact on others as it did on me. If America had been thinking like that in the first place we wouldn't be in the mess we're in..

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Not even close.

If there was a draft and my country needed men (and women) I would serve. That is your duty. That does factor in to my thinkings of a candidate. I have a fiance and male friends. I have brothers too. You just made one hell of a broad accusation based on sex.

The Nightmare that is...

In November we have an opportunity to elect the first African-American to be President of the USA. Yeah sure it be nice to have a female
as well.............. & I know its easier for sum to vote for the white guy instead of that black guy....BUT

With 8yrs of This Bush Regime we have had nothing but lies from these people and they keep on lying and everything just rolls
off them like teflon we cant let these people continue to get away with this...to me i really dont know how to counteract this
especilly when we have the media lapdogs just waging its tail with every lie & propaganda memo...

I will vote for Barack Obama & Joe Biden not because i can but i cannot see John McBush & Sarah Putin in the WhiteHouse...John McBush
And Sarah Putin is what the Bush regime wants, to keep its endless war to protect its oil interest- to perserve the Patriot Act 1 & 2 & above all to protect the lies.
No more!....Hey wasnt Tommy Chong arrested because of the patriot act....

IMO The enemies of the Constitution and its people cannot be found in IRAQ IRAN RUSSIA but right here in our own GOVERNMENT, these are the people who lied to you on a daily basis,
conduring up the Patriot Act right on cue, these are the people who wants to know who you are talking about over the phone, on the computer....The Bush Regime are the oil
barrens of the WhiteHouse and for all these years they couldnt do anything about the rising gas prices(ol just blame OPEC)....
The Nightmare that is John McBush & Sarah Putin........

Oh! By the way- why did the Bush Regime hindered the investigation of 9-11?............................

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Originally Posted by rebgirl420

Not even close.

If there was a draft and my country needed men (and women) I would serve. That is your duty. That does factor in to my thinkings of a candidate. I have a fiance and male friends. I have brothers too. You just made one hell of a broad accusation based on sex.

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im sure by country u only mean USA, u surely wouldnt wanna die (or for that matter serve!) for some lame ass mullah in iran or some other fucker in a 3rd world ditch hole!

right now, one of the wars we are in i think is serving us as a country and it was from beginning assuming al qaeda indeed worked independently to do their dirty thing.... the other one, poor soldiers just have to serve as ordered but do u really think iraq war served us as a nation in any necessary and good way... sure saddam is gone and 1 dictator is less, but not all good doing in the world is going to be counted as serving your country, intentions matter!

:stupid:my bad, my bad! lol nevermind the above post plz... just ignore it:D:D:stupid:

my mind was working @ like 5 different subjectgs @ the same time and it was late night. again i apologize everyone!

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Originally Posted by rebgirl420

Not even close.

If there was a draft and my country needed men (and women) I would serve. That is your duty. That does factor in to my thinkings of a candidate. I have a fiance and male friends. I have brothers too. You just made one hell of a broad accusation based on sex.

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See you're not on the same level as I am. Being in the middle east has nothing to do with the security of our country, that's where you're wrong, and apparently you take it to heart when someone says you don't support the troops or care about your country if you don't support a war, even if it's based on lies.

The day any sorry country tries to invade my country, I take arms and would defend my country. Because then, my country will need me. Fuck Iraq. There was no al quaeda in Iraq before we invaded! What a great job we've done at proliferating violence! I WILL NOT EVER fight for something I don't believe in.

If china was at the canadian and mexican border, and invading us I think we'd see things the same way the people attacking our troops do.

I read today that three people that were conspiring to hijack an airplane in england headed for the US and canada, and I'll be damned if our occupation of Iraq had jack shit to do with that, aside from influencing it more. They're going to try and fly planes into us regardless, or for all we know there's a group of those sons of bitches meeting 5 miles from my house coming up with a way to destroy us because we've killed the rest of their families in the middle east..

You may've supported Ron Paul, but you obviously didn't agree with him on foreign policy, and why the people in the sandbox hate us..

And you and your fiance might not mind giving your life for people who wouldn't lift a finger to do anything to help you, but me and EVERY one of my friends know this war isn't about helping anyone except for oil tycoons, and the rest of the fuckheads getting rich off of this war.

It damn sure isn't my duty to serve and or die for another person's country in a war completely based on lies and deception for an alternate motive.

Mccain wants to bomb bomb bomb Iran, and I hope hope hope he doesn't get elected, Because I'd rather defend my country that someone else's country. Our job is not to police the world, especially while the state in this country is slowly going down the toilet.

I believe strongly in what ron paul says about blowback, and it's not going to get any better so long as we continue to occupy their country and kill their people.

If I register three different user names, and everybody who is not voting for Obama, votes for Nader, we have a tie!!!