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i put this together because i thought it had enough to stand alone and, i felt it was kinda lost for the newbie in my 'imaginary garden' thread.
so, for the noobs like me and the noobs like the one i was before i found these boards and you people, i hope this helps.
first, as a newbie, you need to understand that you must learn to clone, that is the only way you will reap the full benefits of ganja growing. it's just too big a pain in the ass to raise them up from seed and wait 2 - 3 months for them to get mature enough to display sex.
with cloning, you know that every plant you flower is a girl!
second, let me say that i'm no expert so this is not meant to be definitive!
there are several ways to root clones and all are effective to one degree or another. just don't be discouraged, if you try something and it fails, try something else, then, it wasn't a failure, it was a learning experience!
personally, i've rooted clones in rockwool starter cubes under a dome (last year 95% rooted, this year 100% died).
i've rooted clones in just a glass of water, got about a 60% success rate (not good enough to rely on, and it takes a good 10 - 15 days to see roots)
i've only had one run so far with my new cloner but, in that run, 17 of 18 rooted and within 6 days! eureka!
(the cloner has been in operation for about a month now and still with about a 98% success rate)
anyway, since my aim is a never ending Sea Of Green, having a reliable source of healthy clones was a must. being a newbie myself, i set to work reading every thread on cloning i could find and this is what i've come up with, i hope it works as well for you as it has for me!
taking a cutting is pretty straightforward and covered by many, many other threads and faq's. my intent with this thread is to show you how i made a cloner to provide myself with a reliable source of healthy little girls and what you do once you have them rooted.
that being said, as a newbie myself i tell you, do not be afraid to try cloning. cloning is easy!
anyway, once you've taken a cutting you need a place to put it right?
this thread will show you how to make yourself a bubble cloner for about $20.00 USD, not counting another $20.00 for a small air pump, you need bubbles man.
here's a parts list and some pics
1 bin, no bigger than 2 gallons (mine came from Lowes and it cost $7.99)
2 airstones, get them at Walmat, they have a variety of sizes, bigger is better if your pump can handle it, just make sure the airstones fit inside the bin. (approx. $3.00 each)
1/4 inch outside diameter rubber tubbing (standard size for fish tanks)(20 feet is approx. $4.00)
a tee fitting (if your pump only has one outlet, if it has two, you don't need the fitting)
1 length of pipe wrap insulation (it comes in 6 ft lengths) (approx. $4.00)
and now a few pics
1) the inside (as you can see, my bin is black so light proof from jump street, well worth the extra cash, LOL, no need for duct tape)
oh yeah, don't get those airwand thingies, the suction cups don't hold and so they pop free and float to the top of the res, not a good thing.
2) assembled and ready to go, 3 rows times 6x1inch holes for a total of 18 'stations'. note the pipe wrap cut into 1 inch pieces
(the holes were cut with a 1inch hole saw)
3) loaded up but with a few empty stations that show the pipe wrap really well.
btw, i use 2 gallons of water into which i put approx. 6ml of ThriveAlive B1 Red and 2 drops of Superthrive (DO NOT OVERDO THE SUPERTHRIVE, 1 DROP PER GALLON ONLY)
another thing to consider is that you want the res to be kinda warm, not hot mind you, just not cold.
heres a few pics of the cloner in operation, all pretty much self explanitory
1) the cloner is to the right on top of the beer box, to the left and on the floor is one of my DWC bins (same exact footprint and cover size, just 6 gallons deep instead of 2 gallons)
2) another shot, note the difference in the lids, on the left in particular you see 2 cups filled with hydroton, those have rooted clones i need to move to one of my DWC's, the other's are filled with some cuttings i had no room in the cloner for so i pressed a DWC into service as a bubble cloner. (it works but i don't recommend it, it's too deep for a bubble cloner)
3) the underside of the DWC impersonating a cloner, lol (as you can see, the cuttings just dangle about an inch from the top of the solution getting splashed with bubbles.
4) here you can see some roots poking out
5) inside the cloner proper (look at them roots man!)
once you have rooted clones you can transplant into your medium of choice (because i'm learning to grow hydroponically i'm using homemade net pots filled with hydroton, expanded clay pellets)
the thing to remember is to be fairly gentle with the roots whether you're transplanting into dirt or hydroton. in truth, potting them in dirt is simple.
here are some pics to illustrate just how simple it is. just be sure not to leave too much space between the top of the dirt and the rim of the pots, about an inch is good, that leaves you room to water without so much space you have dead, stagnant air at the base of your plants.
note the pots, from last year (i made them from 2 liter soda bottles) (good size for a dirt SOG) i potted these in dirt for a friend who plans on putting them behind his 50 tomato plants.
this is a technique i learned from StinkyAttic (thanks Stinky).
the key here is gentle, gentle, gentle.
in the pics you can see that i pre-soak my hydroton (get hygromite if you don't already have hydroton, it's better for the plants)
as you can see, you put the rooted end of the cutting into the net pot with some hydroton, then you fill up the pot with hydroton while still in the water. doing it this way is much more gentle on the roots
Hey bozo great thread. I can vouch for this method of cloning, i've had problems in the past with clones getting around a 50/50 success rate. Around a month ago 2 of the 4 cuttings i'd taken and put in root riots rooted in about 2 weeks, the other 2 stayed in the riots for another week and failed to root.
Fortunately for me bozo visited my grow log and told me the success he had with his bubble cloner. I checked out his thread and decided to give it a try, all together it cost me roughly $25 and took me about an hour. I put the two unrooted clones that had been in root riots for three weeks and 2 new cuttings into the new bubble cloner, 7 days later all cuttings had roots!
Can't recommend this method of cloning enough. :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
heres a couple more pics to really illustrate whats going on here
the thing to remember is, don't be afraid to try something new and don't be afraid to ask for help (not something like 'do i put the switch up or down to turn the light on?'), we're all in this alone, together, so we all help each other.
also, keep in mind that the more research you do on your own, the more respect you will earn from everyone, plus, you will ask better questions, lol!
when you gain some experience, reach out your hand to the newbie and help him climb that dratted learning curve, just like someone, in my case, many someone's, reached out and helped me, and you!
now, toke amongst yourselves man!
i'm really glad it works as well for you as it does for me man!
Quote:
Originally Posted by hudson88
Just a couple of questions bozo
Have you took the temp of the res? I was under the impression below 70F was good for your res generally would you say it should be a little higher for cloning? It was a pretty hot week when i was cloning and my res temp got to around 80F with no problems.
Do you bother with a rooting gel/powder? I used some but i was wondering if it's a waste as it'll probably get washed off pretty quick.
Oh and by the way I told a guy about this on another site and he's just had 100% success with it.
for cloning you want the res a little warm, not hot, but not cold either, mine runs around 75 degrees mostlyQuote:
Originally Posted by hudson88
and no, i no longer bother with rooting hormones (i've got a brand new 2 oz jar of Rootech that i bought before i made the cloner)Quote:
Originally Posted by hudson88
both the ThriveAlive and the Superthrive are for root development and, so far at least, i haven't needed anything else
Quote:
Originally Posted by hudson88
and cool, spread it around, shit man, all i did was to apply the principles i learned while reading every thread i could find on cloning
what would be your recommendations on pumps and airstones?
I would also like to aerate another res with the same air pump
one of these, with the dual outlets, even the small one would probably workQuote:
Originally Posted by McDanger
Organically Grown EcoPlus Air Pumps
or one of these, i'd go with the 40 or above (these are available at Walmart and almost any pet store)
Product Catalog
i bought one of these also and liked it a lot, very quiet and blows a lot of bubbles
Aquatic Gardens Double Outlet Hi-tech Air Pumps at PETCO
in truth, any air pump rated for a fish tank bigger than your res size will work, i'd suggest you get the biggest one you can afford
i didn't, starting with a 20 gallon, single outlet pump.
since then i have bought 3 other bigger pumps until i bought this one rated to run 16 waterfarms
Organically Grown Dual Diaphragm Air Pump
this thing blows some air man, lol
anyway, i use the small 20 gallon single outlet pump to run my cloner only, all other pumps are running multiple DWC's
here is another big thank you for this thread. I had 4 clones taken on 6/19 that were in r/w and lookin about dead when I moved them to the bubbler, now they all are rooting and I took 4 more on 6/25 and all 4 are starting to show roots. This thing works great.
P.S. this was my 1st attempt at cloning.
sorry for the repeat, it looked like it wasn't working
this thread was exactly what i've been waiting for. I've heard of cloning machines but either didn't want to spend too much or didn't trust that they work. My local shop sells them for too much. I didn't see the need to spend close to $100 on plastic. Now I can make my own, thanks to this. Great job justabozo.
great thread, very well done :thumbsup:
I do have a question - what do you use to put holes in the lid? Is it like a two inch round drill bit, the circular ones with teeth?
sorry i'm been less than attentive, i've been dealing with some personal problems and also with mites here in the real.
anyway, thank you all for the props, although all i did was to apply the principles i've learned doing a LOT of research. anyways, thanks
and McDanger, i'm glad it works as well for you as it does for me.
and polish, i used a 1inch hole saw, if you have 2 inch neoprene inserts, you can use a 2 inch saw,
lol, i know a guy who makes his inserts out of flip-flops (that would be shower shoes, or beach shoes, the flimsy rubber kind)
if you use pipe wrap like i did, a 1 inch hole saw will work.
and thanks for the thumbs up reap! (i've learned a thing or two from you dude)
This sounds like a great idea! I was wondering how people change
the water in their DWC setup or a bubbler cloner?
wht is the ph of the water. still 5.8-6.2?
honestly italian, i don't know what the ph is, i have no meter to check it.
and maxrun, if the how of it is really what you want to know,
the easiest way is to have an extra bin to put the plant filled
lid from one bin onto the extra bin while you then empty and clean
the original bin. then just put the plant filled lid back on the
original bin.
if your question is more toward how often, i'd say every 2 weeks
to every 10 days.
im just not sure on what size i should trim from the plant for my clone. the ones in your pics look pretty big. i was trying to stay on the small side but the stems would barely touch the water.
Hey italian,
I've used this method with small cuttings and it works great, i'd say mine were no bigger than 3". As for them barely touching the water, that's just what you want, i have my stems around 1/4" from the water. i think, correct me if i'm wrong bozo, but i think bozo has his stems a little further away from the water than that, (the airstone makes the water spit up and onto the stem) so you shouldn't have any problems with them not being big enough, obviously you don't want to be taking crappy little 1" cuts, but my crappy little 2.5" cuts rooted just fine ;)
Good luck!
e2a - Check out the first few pages of bozo's imaginary garden, it'll give you more of an idea how it works.
thanks hudson, and you're right, your cuttings can be prettyQuote:
Originally Posted by hudson88
darn small, as long as the bubbling water splash's the
stems, within about a week, you get roots. and, you can
make some very small cuts take root in a bubble cloner.
when you put your cuts in the cloner, some will be close to
the water and some will be barely sticking below the lid, all you really
need to worry about is that the exposed stem is getting wet.
anyway, there are many different ways to root clones. i chose
this way because of the speed with which the cuts take root and
also the simplicity of the design. it has been working for me very
well so far so i don't think i'll be changing any time soon.
so good luck to you all, i hope this works as well for you as
it has for me.
Did you dip those cuttings into a clone gel of some sort before you stuck them into the pipe insulation and fire that bad boy up?
Hope you don't mind me answering this one for you bozo, tell me to feck off if i'm pushing in on your thread lolQuote:
Originally Posted by SimonSaysSmoke
I asked bozo if he uses a rooting gel/powder, his reply was this, " i no longer bother with rooting hormones (i've got a brand new 2 oz jar of Rootech that i bought before i made the cloner)
both the ThriveAlive and the Superthrive are for root development and, so far at least, i haven't needed anything else"
BTW I use a little formulex in my cloner and that seems to work ok too.
Oh and i just noticed a question from italian regarding ph and bozo said he doesn't check his. I left my cuttings in the bubble cloner for around 2 weeks if i remember correctly, (they were growing so quick i thought i'd leave them in it till their roots started to get tangled) a couple of days before i transplanted to soil the clones started getting a couple of brown spots which i think was ph related.
So from my experience i think that they'll root without any problems with plain tap water (ph somewhere around 7, thats what mine is) but after they've grown some decent roots and fast growth starts on the leaves then you need to ph your water down to around 6.0.
Ah must have missed it, thank you very much. :thumbsup:
word. great thread this is!!! props bozo and friends
Im going to be attempting to build one of these for a friend, great thread. Let me try to get this straight though please :jointsmile: ... I get his cuttings, dip them in the (dip n grow if i want to), stick them in the pipe insulation, do a drop of superthrive, fire the box up w/ the airstones and just wait for roots?? Easy as that? I was just wondering the best process step by step so i dont mess his stuff up when we try to attempt this ;) .. Also, what have you all experienced is the best light for the clones? Do you leave them in the dark for a few days then maybe a CFL or T12 flourescent? Im sure it's somewhere but i'd really like to know what is best to be done. Thank you guys very much :thumbsup:
What do you use to hold your air stones down? My airstones have a habbit of flying all over the place inside the reservoir. I've thought about plumbers putty, but I'm afraid of the chemicals leaching into the res water. Two sided tape didn't seem to work either. Just curious. Great thread by the way. I just wasted so much time duct taping my res... If only I'd bought a black tub from the get go. LOL. ;)
I used silicone caulk. Just let it dry before you start it up. Works great.Quote:
Originally Posted by ombudsman
Hey SSS,Quote:
Originally Posted by SimonSaysSmoke
Yeah that's pretty much it, don't worry too much about adding stuff, bozo and I don't bother dipping them in anything, bozo has a couple of things he likes to add to his water and i like a little bit of formulex in mine but i'm sure they'd root without it, just make sure you don't overdo it and you're stems ain't too far away from the water and you'll be good.
As for the light while they're rooting you shouldn't give them too strong a light, i like to keep mine about 8" away from a 125w enviro (cfl) and that seems to be about right. Personally i have them under it 18/6 but i'm pretty sure stinky advises 24/0 for clones and i'm not gonna argue with the stinkster :asskick:
Can't say i've heard much about leaving them in the dark for a few days, i guess the thought is lack of light will make them concentrate on rooting? Mine go straight under the light, but i do cut the ends of any big leaves (that encourages them to root).
Thank you very much guys :jointsmile: . This has been a very helpful thread :thumbsup:
Yes, very informative......thanks!
Bozo,
I'm really glad i found this thread.
I've been thinking about doing a perpetual SOG but i've been worried about having constant clones. Currently i use rapid rooter plugs and have only about a 50% success rate. I built a cloner like this once but it didn't work well at all...this thread inspired me to try it again.
Do you have some pics you could post of a fresh cutting when it's cut, how big it is when you put it into flower, then towards the end of flowering. I'm not clear on how big of clones i should be taking to give me a decent yield in flower. The clones i take now are kinda small. A lot of people say to put them in 12/12 as soon as they are rooted...but if i put these lil' girls into flower as soon as they root, i don't think it would work out that well...
hopefully that made sense...thanks bozo. great thread
Skeet.
I read this through this morning and decided I needed to take the next step and clone! Thanks for the great plan, best I have seen so far. I ran up to Lowes and got the same 2 gallon bin. I will be using 31 gallon bin for a "chamber" placing the 2 gal bin in the 31 gal. Im pretty small scale and would only have 4-6 clones at a time, my grow cab is pretty small (homegrown hydroponics mini-stealth) but Ive had great luck, just too many males. I wanted to ask about lighting for my setup, I have a 12 5/8 inch T5 florescent would that be enough or should I add a second? I attached a photo of probable set up, would suspend the mini T5 from the top of the 31 gal bin. also plan on lining bin with reflective material.
Thanks
That should be enough light for clones. If you are planning on vegging and flowering in that tub i would highly suggest getting some more of those T5s or some CFLs.
Bozo - Thanks for the idea of using pipe insulation. I was gonna buy a load of rubber gardening mats and cut the plugs out of those. But instead i bought $2 worth of pipe insulation and in 10 minutes i had 150 plugs. GENIUS!
Thanks
Skeet
Hey skeet, i've not seen bozo around for a while so thought i'd try to help out.Quote:
Originally Posted by elskeetro
I find pretty small cuttings root ok, most of the cuttings I take are between 2-3" i guess so don't worry about waiting for shoots to get big before cutting, the smallest cuttings can turn into monsters with a little veg ;)
The size of the clone when you put it into flower will determine it's yield, as you say some growers will put them into flower as soon as they root (they'll probably be packing them in pretty tight say 4 to a sq ft) while others will give a couple weeks veg and will only be able to get 1 plant per sq foot. It all depends on how you want to grow.
Hope that helps. :rastasmoke:
You don't need much light to clone so you should be ok with what you've got, however i must add i've no experience with that particular type of light.Quote:
Originally Posted by danlboy
I'm sure bozo will be happy he's helped all us lot with our cloning, cheers bozo, hope all is well with you and we see you around here soon :thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by elskeetro