Dems pay scant attention to successes in Iraq

Iraq isn't the big story this month. Gas prices are.

In May, the Associated Press reported, U.S. military deaths plunged to the lowest monthly level in four years and civilian casualties were down sharply, too. Gasoline also hit $4 per gallon. And you don't see as many "No war for oil" bumper stickers as you used to.

The success of the Bush surge - with Iraqi forces having led offensives in three major cities and taking on Shiite militias - has been greeted in America with a collective shrug. "My perhaps overly cynical view is that it's probably too much to hope for - a lot of good-news stories coming out of Iraq," U.S. Ambassador to Iraq Ryan Crocker said during a recent conference call. But also, with the al-Maliki government clearing once dangerous areas and violence dropping, "Iraq no longer occupies the status as the overarching, all-encompassing crisis that requires full national attention."

Reporters based in Iraq have seen improvements. NBC News' Richard Engel told the New York Observer about a recent trip to Najaf, "I was walking around the city doing interviews, without any kind of security or backup at all. That felt great. I hadn't done that in years. A Chinese restaurant, takeout, just opened up down the street from our bureau. There were no businesses opening in '06 and '07. People are getting out more. You see more people on the streets going to markets. When I go to do interviews, I can stay longer."

And yet, there is a "marked drop-off in the appetite for stories from Iraq," ABC news' Terry McCarthy told the Observer. "That's partly due to the election, partly because of the fatigue, and partly because things have started to go right here. The spectacular car bombs, the massive attacks, you just don't see them anymore. A drip, drip story that's getting a little better day by day doesn't make a headline."

CNN's Michael Ware calls it "audience fatigue." Other journalists, who have risked their lives covering the war, complain that Americans aren't paying attention to their stories on Iraq.

If reporters think their work is unappreciated, imagine how U.S. troops in Iraq feel. They're working miracles - to insufficient applause.

Four years ago, before the U.S. troop death toll hit 1,000 in Sept. 2004, the war was the moral issue.

When liberal Democrats were trying to take over Congress in 2006, they used the war to clobber President Bush and told America that if they were in power, the war would end. Well, they took control of Congress, and the war continues. So now there are fewer political points to be won banging the war.

As of Thursday, 4,098 U.S. troops had died in the Iraq war. Yet Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama's No. 1 issue is the U.S. economy. When the senator talks about the war, he often does so in terms of the $12 billion spent each month in Iraq. Clearly, Team Obama figures it's not the toll of American blood, but the price tag, that enrages voters in this short-attention-span nation.

It seems the better the war goes, the less interest some partisans show in Iraq. Their attention wanders if they can't play the blame game and chant, "Bush lied." Ah, and this time, the critics were wrong when they argued that the surge could not work. Obama was wrong, and, face it, opposing the surge was the politically easy thing to do.

Conversely, John McCain supported the surge - and he did so in opposition to well-wishers and pundits who argued that his support for the war would doom his campaign.

So Team Obama is reduced to nitpicking at McCain. When McCain told NBC's "Today" show that it's "not too important" when U.S. troops are brought home - "We will be able to withdraw, but the key to it is that we don't want any more Americans in harm's way" - Obama surrogates pounced.
Dems pay scant attention to successes in Iraq

Yeah, the Dems were hoping for a loss that didn't come.

In the media, Obama repeatedly predicted that the surge would fail. The day the president announced the new policy, Obama told Larry King he "did not see anything" in the president's surge that would "make a significant dent in the sectarian violence." The same day, he said on MSNBC,


I am not persuaded that 20,000 additional troops in Iraq is going to solve the sectarian violence there. In fact, I think it will do the reverse. I think it takes pressure off the Iraqis to arrive at the sort of political accommodation that every observer believes is the ultimate solution to the problems we face there. So I am going to actively oppose the president's proposal.... I think he is wrong, and I think the American people believe he's wrong.

Four days later, Obama told Face the Nation, "We cannot impose a military solution on what has effectively become a civil war. And until we acknowledge that reality--we can send 15,000 more troops, 20,000 more troops, 30,000 more troops, I don't know any expert on the region or any military officer that I've spoken to privately that believes that that is going to make a substantial difference on the situation on the ground."
Voting for Commander in Chief

LMAO! I guess Obama didn't know what the hell he was talking about.....great candidate for President; Commander in Chief.

Have a good one!:s4:

I wonder how much of this improvement is to help the Repugnits out? Seems to me that they would try/say anything to keep the White House 4 more years. Very convenient, gee, I wonder if BL will be caught just before the election....any bets? lmao

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Yeah, the Dems were hoping for a loss that didn't come.

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...well...400-1000 Taliban skipped out the back door yesterday...:stoned:

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Originally Posted by Mmmgold

I wonder how much of this improvement is to help the Repugnits out? Seems to me that they would try/say anything to keep the White House 4 more years. Very convenient, gee, I wonder if BL will be caught just before the election....any bets? lmao

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Actually, I think I would be more concerned about the dems in congres shooting down Bush on making food, water and ice available to disaster areas...specifically the gulf coast after a major natural disaster like another Katrina, and they also shot down opening up some of the tens of thousands of capped off oil wells in the gulf oil patch to help reduce our dependence on foreign oil and bring the price of fuel down.

I guess none of the dems that voted against this stuff actually *live* down here, otherwise as Katrina survivers, they would have a different view. FWIW, Yes, I took the direct hit from Katrina, and clocked 110mph winds at my home, 80 miles north of the coast.

I don't think any party hoped for a loss! That's like saying you expect all our soldiers to die over there. I've had family there, etc! I had hoped, at the very least, it would be over quick, but saw Viet Nam written all over it! I look at it in terms of loss of life and that is frankly why I started watching George Steph. show, to get a handle of the loss. He posts it and the names of soldiers in the show (I know some others do it also). If they posted how much money on a weekly, monthly basis, it would be more of a focus. You'd think the loss of life in Katrina, due to the diverting of funds from levies to war would have shed a lot more light on it, as that is a cost that would not have been, had the levies been fixed as they were scheduled!

B.O. doesn't get it, if he is focused on economy only-even if that is what American's are focused on. Housing and Transportation! I don't think war is not a money issue to the public anymore, after a few billion, what's a few more. We are pissed over oil! It is there and we aren't getting a break! At least some are! Once we get use to seeing the money floating out the window, you get apathetic about it!

Looking at George Steph. I just noticed that someone I went to High School with lost a relative in Iraq this week! The other thing I notice, the loss's are getting older in age, meaning our armed services are really stretched thin and fewer recruits. If McCain gets in, I expect a draft! Look-out Canada, here we come again!

I do feel Obama is not looking at a big enough picture, due to his youth and inexperience-not sure! I know younger people with a better understanding of the situation; in Iraq and our economy!

Somehow, the world will sit on it Axs's and keep on spinning! :)

Frankly, I want out of war due to the loss of life and I see it as a civil war over religion over there! That is my opinion. However, we stirred up the pot, just as in Viet Nam and how much harm did it do there to turn and run?

Like the article states, the Republicans run Congress and had a lot to do with how we got there. Not just one congressman or Senator's vote!

Miss. Steve was not posted yet when I put my post in and now that I read it, I see: At least someone is looking at Katrina and the relationship it has with Iraq! I live in CA, and what happened there is equally as bad as 911 and worse in that it would not have happened if we never went to Iraq. The loss and con't loss there is a toll of Iraq!

in a war of ideological imperialism, chinese take-out just ain't news. though the american people are viscerally aware that we are morally obligated to play the hand out to some conclusion, our personal needs as a nation will always take precedence. the false hope of a better tomorrow and the opportunity of something for nothing are more real to us than the sufferings of an ill-conceived war.

of course, it's all just for show. our status as a nation is less important than the status of those who claim to represent us. our rights and freedoms are illusory gumdrops, grudgingly handed out in lieu of any real control over our own destinies. spoon-fed what we are told is important to us, we will elect the same tired bureaucrats for the same tired reasons and reap the same tired status quo - just as we have done a thousand times before.

Me I want the war over I dont care about Iraq. I want the money being spent over there to be used here at home. I dont care if Iran goes in there and takes over because the politicians over there cant get there act together. People here at home are hurting and just think of the people that went through Katrina like Miss.Steve and whats going to happen to the people up in Iowa going through the same thing. Iraq is the least of my concerns I dont care if you think buy bringing our troops home is losing. Bring them home and bring that money home and put it to some good use.:rasta::rastasmoke::pimp:

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Originally Posted by BigWeed

Me I want the war over I don't care about Iraq....

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me, i, i, i - the total lack of empathy and personal responsibility amazes me. while pleading the case for our obligations at home, we deny our duty to those we have already affected by our nation's actions and ignore the part we have played in the mess this world has become. the blame lies with each and every one of us and denying our part in it all merely demonstrates our self-centered attitudes and arrogant disregard for our own culpability.

Whew, I sure wouldn't want u to tell me off, don't think I'd understand it! You make extremely valid points that I constantly ponder: My need for self or the 'big picture' in the scheme of things. Is I an ant, a bear or an ostrich (that is the one that sticks its' head in the sand? I confuse my big birds). Does my opinion or my vote count as much as I like to think it does!

America's place in the world and how we are viewed are pretty evident by some of the postings by international members. I'd say we ain't so popular, but then we knew that with Iraq. Esp when they started calling a stupid potato a freedom fry!

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Originally Posted by painretreat

America's place in the world and how we are viewed are pretty evident by some of the postings by international members. I'd say we ain't so popular....

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we've never been popular, so don't worry your little head about it. we've been respected, we've been feared, we've been abused and we've been used; but we've never been liked. no one likes the big dog, they just get out of its way and avail themselves of its protection and occasional benevolence. to believe that the other nations of the world would be any less belligerent if they were in our position is underestimating the avarice of those in power. we hear the voices of a few and consider that to be the voice of the people, but those voices are led just as we are. corruption is not limited to our shores, we merely cry more vehemently against it and our voices are heard around the world. if we weren't so trapped by petty partisan squabbling, we might actually be able to at least recognize the enemies instead of constantly reelecting them.

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Originally Posted by delusionsofNORMALity

if we weren't so trapped by petty partisan squabbling, we might actually be able to at least recognize the enemies instead of constantly reelecting them.

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Don't forget about the millions of dollars needed to get elected in the first place. Good luck on a non-elitist, not tainted by money and power, do gooder ever getting elected...especially for president. The enemy is ourselves. Never underestimate human nature, it is the reason we need politics in the first place.

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Originally Posted by painretreat

I don't think any party hoped for a loss! That's like saying you expect all our soldiers to die over there.

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Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid's recent statement that "the war is lost" in Iraq
Dems fail to back Reid's 'Iraq war lost' - Politico.com

Murtha's latest comments are also a stark reversal from what he said earlier in the year. The Pennsylvania Democrat, who chairs the powerful Defense Subcommittee on the House Appropriations Committee, has previously stated that the surge "is not working" and the United States faced a military disaster in Iraq.
Murtha's comments on 'surge' are a problem for House Democrats - The Crypt's Blog - Politico.com

"Our troops won the war clearly, cleanly and quickly," said Rep. David Obey, D-Wis., chairman of the Appropriations Committee. "But now they are stuck in a civil war," and the only solution is a political and diplomatic compromise. "And there is no soldier who can get that done," he added.
Reid: Iraq War lost, U.S. can't win - Politics - MSNBC.com

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) said twice Sunday that Iraq â??is a failure,â?� adding that President Bushâ??s troop surge has â??not produced the desired effect.â?�
Pelosi calls Iraq a 'failure' - Mike Allen - Politico.com

And the list goes on and on.....as for the soldier comment it makes me wonder. The Dems (Clinton/Obama) plan was to pull out MOST of the troops but leave only enough behind to secure 100,000 civilian workers, our diplomats, embassy, and Iraqi Nationals that were loyal. So how many of these troops will be left behind?

Have a good one!:s4:

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Originally Posted by 40oz

Don't forget about the millions of dollars needed to get elected in the first place. Good luck on a non-elitist, not tainted by money and power, do gooder ever getting elected...especially for president. The enemy is ourselves. Never underestimate human nature, it is the reason we need politics in the first place.

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Well put! As Americans we do not take enough responsibilities for ourselves and I feel this is often overlooked. It's easier to place blame on a party, political figure, the rich, the corporations etc etc. We need to take actions and responsibility for ourselves.

Lately the American people want the government to handle everything. Doing that we move the power from our own hands and into the politicians.

I can only hope that our citizens start to Wise up :(

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Originally Posted by 40oz

The enemy is ourselves. Never underestimate human nature, it is the reason we need politics in the first place.

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the enemy is only that part of ourselves which denies our instincts toward freedom and charity. the power inherent in our systems of government cater our the baser tendencies and attract those for whom the control over others is of paramount importance. we lie to ourselves, believing that we need others to control us. we belittle ourselves, believing that there are others who know better how we should live our lives. we embrace politics instead of politesse because it is easier to blame someone else than to claim personal responsibility for the errors that are bound to happen and to forgive.

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Originally Posted by Psycho4Bud

....The spectacular car bombs, the massive attacks, you just don't see them anymore. A drip, drip story that's getting a little better day by day doesn't make a headline."

CNN's Michael Ware calls it "audience fatigue." Other journalists, who have risked their lives covering the war, complain that Americans aren't paying attention to their stories on Iraq.

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We are, collectively, otherwise occupied... and that is no one's fault but our own. Letting the big boys handle the mess in Iraq without our interference (or, even, attention) leaves Joe Voter more time for the REALLY important things in life.
American Idol: Official FOX Site

Edit: Lest this come off as overly trite, my point is that we are conditioned to expect our news to be entertaining. CNN gained notice for following the First Gulf War in live-action explosions style. Fox carries on the tradition... and provides us with other shiny colorful shows just in case it's a slow explosion day. The matador waves his cape, and the bull goes charging off in the other direction.

If you have a couple hours to spare out of your busy evening television lineup, turn the thing off and read the book "Amusing Ourselves To Death" by Neil Postman. It's damning. Even Sesame Street takes a bit of a beating.

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Originally Posted by stinkyattic

....leaves Joe Voter more time for the REALLY important things in life.
American Idol: Official FOX Site

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i think i just vomited a month's worth of bile. welcome to the new religion of western civilization. at first i thought we might worship the idols of science, but it has become rather obvious that that brief 15 minutes has become our golden calf.:rolleyes:

My darling DoN... Hindu Kush is an effective anti-nausea agent. I've found myself reaching for it more frequently now than I have in past administrations. You all know by now I avoid politics like the high-school class officer election (rich? popular? rather photogenic? YOU'RE THE PRESIDENT!!!***) contest it is, but it's like a car wreck- you don't want to absorb the gravity of the situation, but just...can't...look...away...

***John Kerry looks WAY better in a wetsuit than Dubya would.

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Originally Posted by stinkyattic

My darling DoN... Hindu Kush is an effective anti-nausea agent. I've found myself reaching for it more frequently now than I have in past administrations.

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Even the Carter years? Well, if your area held true to the mid-west ya probably couldn't afford to get any.

Back to the thread.....I can understand the media because bad news sells headlines. As for the politicians...well, it's hard for ANY of the elite to say that they were wrong.

Have a good one!:s4:

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Originally Posted by stinkyattic

My darling DoN... Hindu Kush is an effective anti-nausea agent. I've found myself reaching for it more frequently now than I have in past administrations.

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just wait til brak gets his chance to suck us dry, we'll be noshing on seedlings for sustenance. it will make his antics on space ghost pale by comparison.

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You all know by now I avoid politics like the high-school class officer election (rich? popular? rather photogenic? YOU'RE THE PRESIDENT!!!***) contest it is, but it's like a car wreck- you don't want to absorb the gravity of the situation, but just...can't...look...away...

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you forgot to mention that all important quality, the ability to speak well without saying anything. politics is the favorite game of the forces of mediocrity, played by those with little imagination and financed with the stolen sweat of millions of unknowing slaves. though i avoid it in the real world, my mind enjoys it for the mental masturbation that it is.

choose to play or not, it impacts us all to some extent. even this deep under the ice we can feel the fear it generates.

I personally believe, we need out of Iraq. We accomplished our mission! Whatever government, let them do it; As the U.S. did with the 13 colonies! If they cannot work together, it is their problem. Or, we can send our Mods from this site to keep them in line! But, we'd miss them! And surely, we would send them protection!

The 100,000 civilians left behind are there for greed! They stay out of U.S. long enough, they do not have to pay taxes here! They are getting paid, at least 10 X's or more their normal yearly salary!

I say, Let Haliburton guard their own employees. Why do we need to have civilians there anyway. They ran their own business, seemingly, O.K. before. PUT Iraqi's back to work. Give them more to do than kill us and each other!

This is a limited narrow minded opinion. But, I'd be interested in other opinions, not someone talking in circle's without a specific solution! I know you guys have opinions of a solution, where are you hiding?

So now, i es gonna take my little head full of a pea brain nit wit home and shit a brick I think someone above needs to smoke :wtf:

All I've been reading on this page is delusionofnormality's posts and I just had 2 say you're the buzziest poster on these forums aye.everything you say I have to think about twice and buzz out thinking about it hahaha.+rep bro

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Originally Posted by BigWeed

Me I want the war over I dont care about Iraq. I want the money being spent over there to be used here at home. I dont care if Iran goes in there and takes over because the politicians over there cant get there act together. People here at home are hurting and just think of the people that went through Katrina like Miss.Steve and whats going to happen to the people up in Iowa going through the same thing. Iraq is the least of my concerns I dont care if you think buy bringing our troops home is losing. Bring them home and bring that money home and put it to some good use.

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Think about it bro, imagine being an Iraqi person.. America walks in and bombs your homes, pretty much takes over your country and fuck you in the ass... and its alright for America to just walk away? They gotta help clean up the mess they made. Just walking away is completely selfish, but hey it's america so what do we expect...

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Originally Posted by painretreat

I personally believe, we need out of Iraq. We accomplished our mission! Whatever government, let them do it; As the U.S. did with the 13 colonies! If they cannot work together, it is their problem. Or, we can send our Mods from this site to keep them in line! But, we'd miss them! And surely, we would send them protection!

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GREAT point....IF we were to leave then lets leave completely! There are only two options: Either see this thing through or a complete withdrawl. The idea of leaving a skeleton force is SICK!!:mad:

I'd LOVE to take ol' Obama into a biker bar with 60 people, raise some hell, then leave him and one person behind while the rest of us go down the road for a while. He wouldn't mind doing it to our troops...what the hell? Between his thoughts on that combined with his comments regarding the surge...he has consistantly proven that he knows NOTHING about the military.

Have a good one!:s4:

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Originally Posted by Psycho4Bud

LMAO! I guess Obama didn't know what the hell he was talking about.....great candidate for President; Commander in Chief.

Have a good one!:s4:

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kind of like bush when he made that bonehead mistake of ignoring memos like "bin laden determined to attack inside the united states." what a klutz lol! i guess he was busy lying to us to get into iraq in the first place. WHOOPSIE. but hey five years and thousands of deaths later the monthly death toll is down!! presidency redeemed! a glowing success a monumental moment in presidential history.

Have a good one! :jointsmile:

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Originally Posted by suhl

kind of like bush when he made that bonehead mistake of ignoring memos like "bin laden determined to attack inside the united states." what a klutz lol!

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In 1993, the first World Trade Center bombing killed six people.

In 1998, the bombing of two U.S. embassies in Africa killed 224.

Both were the work of al-Qaida and bin Laden, who in 1998 declared holy war on America, making him arguably the most wanted man in the world.

In 1998, President Clinton announced, â??We will use all the means at our disposal to bring those responsible to justice, no matter what or how long it takes.â?�

NBC News has obtained, exclusively, extraordinary secret video, shot by the U.S. government. It illustrates an enormous opportunity the Clinton administration had to kill or capture bin Laden. Critics call it a missed opportunity.
Osama bin Laden: missed opportunities - Nightly News with Brian Williams - MSNBC.com

From 1996 to 1998, I opened unofficial channels between Sudan and the Clinton administration. I met with officials in both countries, including Clinton, U.S. National Security Advisor Samuel R. "Sandy" Berger and Sudan's president and intelligence chief. President Omar Hassan Ahmed Bashir, who wanted terrorism sanctions against Sudan lifted, offered the arrest and extradition of Bin Laden and detailed intelligence data about the global networks constructed by Egypt's Islamic Jihad, Iran's Hezbollah and the Palestinian Hamas.

Among those in the networks were the two hijackers who piloted commercial airliners into the World Trade Center.

The silence of the Clinton administration in responding to these offers was deafening.
Clinton Let Bin Laden Slip Away and Metastasize

Seems that Clinton and the Dems left a pile of shit to contend with...but I guess if people feel better to blame Bush.

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Originally Posted by suhl

i guess he was busy lying to us to get into iraq in the first place. WHOOPSIE. but hey five years and thousands of deaths later the monthly death toll is down!! presidency redeemed! a glowing success a monumental moment in presidential history.

Have a good one! :jointsmile:

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You mean like these ones before Bush was even elected?
http://boards.cannabis.com/politics/...cricy-war.html

This can't be right....why would B. Clinton, Pelosi and others state the same lies?

Have a good one!:s4:

Have a good one!:s4:

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Originally Posted by delusionsofNORMALity

we embrace politics instead of politesse because it is easier to blame someone else than to claim personal responsibility for the errors that are bound to happen and to forgive.

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You have a point, but the whole point of a governing authority is to protect our freedom from eachother. For example, could you ever picture someone who is a psychopath thinking about other people? Some people will do whatever it takes to get what they want; lie, steal, kill, anything.
Some people just crave power, it is a character flaw but it is a part of human nature we all posses.

To believe we could live in some kind of a world ruled only by the power of love and forgiveness is a serious misjudgment of human nature. It depends on us all using our sense of reason to operate on our sympathetic passions. Our sense of reason is controlled by our passions, not the other way around. I don't know if that kind of world could work.

I really would really like to see what people think we should do in or with Iraq? I for one, dream we can keep our troops and people safe! Perhaps, that is a pipe dream! I just do not know how we can accomplish that!

40oz, you have very legit comments and by reading this thread, it is obvious that not only is the need for some people to crave power and it is a flaw, not just in the White House (where we need sympathetic passion with a strong tincture of formal justice) but in just reading here. A crave of power exists in more than just politicians, even if it is one person controlling and rambling on in this thread!

At least, we are very lucky to get the real facts. And have someone open our eyes to the truth; giving us direction-where to go to get the facts to form an opinion!

I am so undecided with the upcoming election, if I don't read everything I feel I will make a big mistake. Not that any one person feels that one vote makes that much difference. I feel, it is my privilege and right as an American to know the difference, be diligent and vote with my personal belief of what is best for American's and the World, as a whole! thanks, I am getting more informed, daily! pr :thumbsup: