That's all.
My fingers were cramping from typing it n times a day.
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That's all.
My fingers were cramping from typing it n times a day.
great simple sticky here!
Correct me if I'm wrong.... As I understand, when using RO or distilled water, we need to use an additive like CalMag Plus because most hydroponic nutrients are not formulated/balanced for use with the plain water. The nutrients are made to be used with average hard water which already contains calcium and magnesium. RO/distilled water lacks the calcium and magnesium which are essential for growing.
However, using hard water from the tap isn't always the best because the ratio of calcium to magnesium can vary, possibly to the degree of causing nutrient lockout.
Some people use a mix of plain and tap water. I don't know enough about that to make any comments.
I'd think it would be more beneficial to use RO/distilled water and adding the appropriate amount of CalMag to correct and prevent deficiency, which will give the plants all they need in a soluble form they can uptake with less effort.... Also there's no harmful mystery chemicals as would come from using tap water!
Right on brutha. That is exactly the point.
One clarification is that the nutes for hard water are actually labelled for hard water use. It will say right on the bottle. The 'default' nutrient is made to be used with 'average' tap water. I, for one, have the good luck to be able to use my city water out of the tap, even in hydro, but the bad luck to have to add calmag to my well water, which is quite 'soft', even in soil! haha ... what a PITA!
But a techincally oriented grower will tell you that he likes to start with NOTHING and add only KNOWN fertilizer components to his water.
Even in dirt, you still need calmag if you use RO, distilled, or rain water. And you MUST adjust the pH of rain water, after adding the calmag, and before use on your plants.
RO?
reverse osmosis, water purifying process
Moan, moan, moan. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by stinkyattic
I lay awake all night wishing I could have soft well water. OK, not exactly, but believe you me, hard well water is a real bitch compared to soft. How did you get so lucky? Must be my location or upbringing, but I didn't even know soft well water existed.
I guess everything has it's good points. I don't need to add Calmag. I usually do though, in small amounts. Great product, though there are others.
Basically it takes out most impurities and leaves you with water. Both undesirables and otherwise.Quote:
Originally Posted by texas grass
Spring water running through a granite substrate, not limestone, and runoff from a hemlock forest. I have organic acids problems with my well water :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Opie Yutts
Blah. You want some? Miracle healing water! Great for all types of problems! Warts! Malaise! Possession by evil spirits! Only five bucks a glass. Step right up...
Sounds like a colloidal mineral drink I fell for, for about 6 months. Supposedly I'll live to 140 for drinking it.
lol...I almost bought some of that stuff too :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Opie Yutts
What about filtered water? Will that have the minerals you need or is it just as bad as distilled/ro? Im about to set up my first aquafarm and am glad i ran into this thread.
If it is not RO/distilled. Then you need an EC/PPM meter. Besides PH your EC/PPM are most important. You might be good to go. My bro has well water under 100ppm's. Works good with hard water nutes.
Depending on the filter and the source of water, will answer your question.
Remember if it has chlorine in it it has one function. To kill organic matter.
It is a pain sometimes getting water but well worth it in the long run of getting over the big hurdles of hydro. RO units can be gotten cheap.
When you know you started with nothing to screw you up then it is alot easier to fix problems.
Once I got my meters and water straight problems went away.
Ok so i posted asking more about cal mag, and then found the answer 15 seconds later. After so many hours of reading..i hurt in weird places:yippee:
I didn't use a PPM meter in my grow o_oQuote:
Originally Posted by LOC NAR on probation
Sometimes you will be lucky. I have grown hydro successfully without a ppm meter, because my source water was perfect (I didn't even know it, just dumb luck). And I have FAILED at soilless without one. If you suspect even slightly that you have a source water problem, take it down to the shop to be tested, and if you will need to do ANY adjusting, get a good EC meter.
How much calmag are you supposed to add? Just use whats on the label?
If you don't have an EC meter, just use what's on the label, but you really should have some way of checking conductivity if you are in a position to need calmag, and you'll want to add it until your ppm reads right around 300, before adding any other nutes or checking the pH.
does that go for seedlings through maturity?
Seedlings need plenty of calcium too; you'll have to read the schedules for the answer to your dosage question, but I've always just used tap water on mine. If you have to use DI/RO/rain, my hunch is that you still need calmag, but at a lower dose.
I have been using soft water for a long time not using Sodium Chloride but Potassium Chloride to get the hardness out and have not had any problems at all growing. :)
I have 10 gallons of distilled with all my nutrients in it. I added two gallons of regular sink water assuming it has the calcium and magnesium. Is this a bad move?
Not necessarily, and most likely completely fine; however, now your nutes are at about 83% strength and assuming your tap water was ideal, your mineral levels are at 17% strength.
Yo I have a dehumidifier that is constantly running...is that water safe to use since it's humidity being sucked out of the air?
Yo maybe.
Do you see corrosion on the condenser? Is the catch container metal or plastic (metal bad, plastic good)? Do you know the conductivity of the water coming out (should not even register on your EC meter; if it does, you've most likely got dissolved copper or aluminum from the condenser)?
Still gotta run calmag if all that stuff checks out.
Sorry for the stupid question but Stinky mentioned taking your water to the "shop" and having it tested, I am atleast 70+ miles from the closest Hydro shop so where would the best place to go to get water tested without suspision and exactly what is the key to be looking for from the results? Silly me hasnt been able to purchase a meter yet but luckily I am on the 3rd grow and no problems so far just want to make sure I avoid any if possible.
If you haven't had problems yet, keep doing what you are doing.
The city sewer and water department should have a website where they post the actual test results on your tap water. Look at the TDS number.
If you are on a well, and suspect your mineral content is unstable, you are better off buying a meter. The cost of testing through a private lab can be high, and if you think you will need to have your water tested more than once, it's cheaper to get a TDS/EC/PPM meter.
Out here in the country we have agricultural extension office in each county. They will test water for free. I assume there is one in each county in the USA.
I disagree about the calmag. I've never heard of it and therefore never used it. I have discovered that using r/o water with Advanced Nutrients Sensi Grow/Bloom works out perfectly in a hydro setup and that is all I ever use. I never have to check ph or ec and have had much success. Lucky I guess.
Cal-mag plus will drop your water ph even at 2.5 mls per gallon and I don't even know how many ppm's that will get you to, so the more you need the more it's going to drop your water ph.
I just collect rain water than run it through a micron filter works perfect!
Yes You are.Quote:
Originally Posted by stratlogic
It is a fact that cal mag is necessary for optimum growth. Ask any commercial or professional grower.
While I am at it. Someone asked about amount to use.
For seedlings; You might add 3ml per gallon. The bottle says to use 5-8ml.
I generally never use 8ml unless late in flower week 4-7, before flush.
You have it correct bitemybud, first that's it necessary and second ask any commercial or professional grower. Commercial growers are a great source of information and while none will entertain mj questions, what they do and how they do it, is applicable to what you grow.Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemybud
Also note; cal/mag is NOT required if you use Pro-Mix, it contains dolomite lime. When dolomite breaks down it provides calcium and magnesium so it is already in the container. It is one reason professional greenhouse operators use it, one less item to meter into thier RO water.
Hello, people!
â??it is a fact that cal mag is necessary for optimum growth. Just ask any commercial or professional grower.â?
Well, yes, that's true, but I am a professional grower and I don't use any calcium or magnesium supplements because I don't have to. That's because I use a nutrient that already contains more than adequate amounts of each and I run ph at levels that allow for sufficient uptake. In the greenhouse hydro industry growing tomatoes with drip irrigation in perlite culture many operations use bulk nutrient preparations that are dry and come in two parts. One part contains everything but calcium nitrate, the other part is calcium nitrate. They keep them separate to prevent magnesium sulfate and calcium nitrate from interacting. Just as the gh flora series, techniflora nutes and many others do, liquid or dry. The one part flora nova gets away with everything in one bottle as it is a colloidal suspension that separates during storage, thus preventing the interaction. However, there are many nutrient packages that don't contain sufficient cal-mag. Pure blend pro is a classic example. You absolutely must use cal-mag with it to avoid disaster.
I am currently using maxibloom for flowering. It is a one part product that does not have any reactions until you put it into solution in water. It contains ample amounts of cal-mag.
The calcium/magnesium deficiency most folks run into eventually using hydro nutes is caused by ph being maintained at levels that don't allow for decent uptake. Not by the nutrients being low on either calcium or magnesium.
I know I run the risk here of opening up a whole can of worms on proper cannabis hydro ph, but here goes anyway.
Most of the ph charts you see are incorrect or misleading. Most would have you believe that if you don't run at a specific ph you are running the risk of lockout of one element or the other. Some depict uptake of elements at different ph points that don't even overlap with their recommendation for ideal ph, usually at around 5.8.
The truth is that there is no such thing as ideal ph and there are no finite points where lockouts occur. Every application is a compromise. However, the 5.8 recommendation is right in the middle of the range where you get the least calcium and magnesium uptake. You are still getting some, but usually not enough. You either have to get above 6.0-6.1 or below 5.5 to get adequate uptake of calcium or magnesium. I believe that above 5.5 phosphorus availability starts diminishing so I start my input solution at 5.2. As nutrients are used and evaporation/transpiration occur the ph will climb. The girls love it and show no symptoms of deficiency.
So, if you are using ro or distilled water and your nutrient shows calcium and magnesium on the label try running your ph between 5.1 and 5.4 for a while and see what happens. I think you will be pleasantly surprised.
If you are using ro water it is probable that you have very hard water from your tap and you decided to use ro water to solve the problem. If your tap water is over 200 ppm at the .5 conversion (milwaukee meters), you probably have too much calcium in your water. The calcium in your tap water plus the calcium in your nutrient solution can add up to an over abundance of calcium. An excess of calcium can cause a magnesium deficiency. You see the mag deficiency first and you think you need more magnesium so you add cal-mag thereby aggravating the situation. You can run into a similar scenario adding epsom salts (magnesium sulphate) to your solution. Too much of one nutrient can cause problems with uptake of another.
If your tap water is below around 150 ppm and doesn't contain more than 70 ppm calcium (only a water analysis can tell you this) try correcting ph to 5.2 for a while. With Ro water, if your nutes show Mg and Ca on the label, try 5.2 for a while.
Or you can blend ro water and tap water in proportions that get your tds below 100 ppm, then try 5.2 for a while.
My tap water is slightly over 200 ppm most of the time, so I blend tap 40%/ro 60% and end up with a reading of around 80 ppm before nutes are added. I chose this ratio because of the ph buffering capability inherent in the tap water mixed with ro at this ratio allows me to get away without using ph adjusters, either up or down. 2 gals tap plus 3 gals ro plus 2 level tablespoons maxibloom gives me 5.2 at around 950 ppm every time. I have visually perfect plants showing no signs excess or deficiency.
Well, I hope this little discourse helps someone be a better grower. Later delta9nxs
Excellent first post delta9nxs! And welcome to the canna boards, I hope to see more posts from you.
You've raised two very important points:
1) everyone needs to check what is in thier nutrients, water, medium and any additives...it is real easy to over do a nutrient element.
2) PH is extremely important to nutrient uptake and the fact that it "drifts" is a good thing, since various elements need slightly different PHs to get utilized.
Thanks for the informative information. (is that redundant?)
I'm using R/O water for my grow. Should I continue to add CalMag when my grow goes into the "straight water" flush mode at the end of flowering?
delta9nxs :postgood: and welcome to cancom.
Hi McToker,Quote:
Originally Posted by McToker
Sorry no one answered your question right away.
Yes you should continue the use of cal/mag during flush, it will help the plant use up any nutes left in the soil, but also any nutes left in its' cells. If your using the cal/mag as directed the amount is so small it will not effect taste. It's just as if you where using tap or decent well water there is just a trace of micro-nutrients in it.
Thanks oldmac. That's kinda the way I was leaning but wanted to make sure.
Im confused, If I use tap water and add nutes, it will mess up the plants?
what about reg. bottled water