Newbie CFL Grow..Could use advice and criticism

First id like to thank a lot of people on this website to inspired me to try this horticulture thing again. (especially bordom children of and stinkyattic) Thanks for the great ideas

So i decided to build a rubbermaid unit like bordom childeren of rubbermaid box design with just a few changes. (for veg and flowering)

right now it has 6 cfl at 26w a piece and they are all 6500k
(box stay at about 76-80 degrees f with Humity around 40-55%) but it is already 95f outside and humidity is at 70%

I got busted building it by my roommate and cannot use it until i move out in a month

So i build a cardboard box dimensions 12"x20"X20" with a pc fan and 2 cfl @ 26w both 6500k good box temp between 74-79 F with humidity at 40-55%....I plan on redesigning this box to fit 4 cfl's but that has to wait till monday.

I currently started 15 seeds from some bagweed i had which id like to practice and get my skills before i buy some exotic seeds. all 15 seeds germinated within 2 days and i planted them all in jiffy pellets and placed the pellets in 2 inch jiggy pots until 2 days later i noticed the roots like 4 inches below the jiffy pellet in 2 days. So i replanted the jiffy pellets in 9 oz syrofoam cups so i wouldnt have to transplant the plants again for like 2 more weeks.

Sorry for the long post but i just wanted to tell the whole story in case someone wants to follow this grow log like ive followed most of yours.

At the time the only problem i can say is the second set of leaves are very small at this time which is only 3 days after they sprouted and some of the stems are purple ( which i think is common.)

I will upload pics later when my roommate is sleeping. My roommate smokes but really doesnt like the idea of growing..i know i should respect him but if they got to be 1 month old and i showed my progress he would definitly want the grow to continue. thank in advance for all the comments and criticism

Killa12345

i think most people will give you some crap about not respecting your roommate. that being said, i can understand your zeal. keep in mind that the plants need both ends of the light spectrum throughout thier life. they need some red during vegging and some blue during flowering. so i would suggest 5 to 1 blue during vegging and 4 to 2 red during flowering, assuming wattages are equal. let me say also that i'm no expert, most of what i say i got from the lips of others (well, not thier lips exactly, the typed word, but same diff)

anyway, i'm using cfl's myself, come on by and check it out

Be careful with that roomate situation... sounds like bad news to me.

why not just wait till you move out, then you wont have to sneak around and such.

Thanks for the advice....the roommate is not really that much of a prob. We tried this before with a 1000w hps and it became a multi room project which then had to be taken down because our landlord came by.( hes mad because of the lost of investment) Since it is my house and i let him stay with me and i invested all the money in the project it shouldnt be a problem.

And if it is..... id be glad to rip it down....its just bag seed that im trying to get my technique down before i move...so when the time comes i got all the supplies and my system down.

Heres some pics this is Day 5 from germination and the 1st or 2nd day since the plants have gotten their second sets of leaves. .

http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/k...s/DSC00762.jpghttp://i281.photobucket.com/albums/k...s/DSC00763.jpghttp://i281.photobucket.com/albums/k...s/DSC00764.jpg http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/k...s/DSC00765.jpghttp://i281.photobucket.com/albums/k...s/DSC00767.jpg

so i got the new box built last night temps are a little hot at the moment but trying to get them down right now the range is about 77-82 F which isnt to bad...

2 questions out there for our seasoned growers.

1. My humidity is 37-50 in the new box i add cups of water to try to get it higher only time will tell, but if the humidity stays in this range will the plants still grow and flower well?

2. I have my plants about and inch or some might even be closer to the light. I dont see any spots or heat problems as of now. My question is what should i look for to know the lights might be damaging my babies?

And how do u guys get the smaller pics on the log.....sorry for the big pics i will try to fix for my future pics.

i will post more pics soon of the height when the camera is done charging.

Thanks in advance
Killa12345

heres some pics please tell me if they r to close to the lights please?

http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/k...2/DSC00769.jpg
http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/k...2/DSC00771.jpg
http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/k...2/DSC00777.jpg
http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/k...2/DSC00778.jpg

your pics are too big, try saving them to a folder on your computer. open them indivdually, then right click on them and look for a way to resize them, then just save them at 800x600 into a seperate folder or with a different name. then post the 800x600 pics.
or you should actually be able to just upload them with the button 'Manage Attachments' a little lower down on this page (the page that comes up when your posting a message). when upload from there, we should see thumbnails of all the pics which we can click on individually to enlarge.
hope this helps

bozo,
peace, love, dope

Distance wise the lights look fine, just make sure the lights never touch the plant and keep them about 1 to 2 inches away from the tips of the plants. good luck:thumbsup:

Edit: i cant tell by the picture but it looks like there isn't a reflector above those lights, this means your plants wont be getting all the light your providing and it looks like its causing them to bend more towards the light then usual (somebody please correct me if I'm wrong). to fix this get either a metal reflector or just paint the box with a flat white paint.

Hey Bozo, looking good so far!

Should is right, the CFLs are fine where they're at. Not much penetration with flouros so the closer the better. The way to tell if the light is too close is by looking at the burnt leaves after you move the light up :) Seriously though, 1 inch away is perfectly fine and will show no adverse effects until it's literally touching the plant.

If the box is reflective on the inside you should be fine without any reflectors. In fact, and someone correct me if I'm wrong, CFLs focus most of their light out the end, not the side.

edit: I see that it's not mylar'd or painted, get that done asap. Should is right again, you're losing light to the brownness

On another note, I don't know about using a cardboard box as cab/tent/grow space. It just seems like a potential fire hazard that should be avoided, especially since it's YOUR house ;)

Also, what type of soil/mix have ya got there?

Ugh, I forgot, I have more to say! And apologies to Killer, as this is his grow, not Bozo's as I mistyped before.

Instead of your highly flammable paper box, maybe try setting up a small PVC frame of the dimensions you require, then wrap it in mylar emergency blankets. It isn't light-proof, and neither is your current, but it works well and looks neat when all closed up. You see a dimmed version of your garden that you don't have to squint at!

When 12/12 comes around you'll need to think of something a bit more complicated. Probably start scheming now, if I were you.

edit: One last thing, maybe get rid of a few of those just to keep things on a smaller scale? Personally I would do 5 or 6 and hope for half females. After that's established, mom it up and clone your ass off

i would say, based on my limited experience and some extensive reading, that those are called 'seedlings', now seedlings just don't need that much light, in fact, just putting them on a tray under the window and out of the direct sunlight would be great. try to remember that they are BABIES, you don't treat your babies like you would mature ladies.
also, Simon's idea about moving into a better home is a good one, although, if you can get it, Panda plastic would be better than emergency blankets, it's white on the inside and black on the outside and if you do it right, it will be light proof. also, if you do make the move, you will need to make sure and add some ventilation in the new box.
anyway, good luck. keep it up and keep us informed

bozo,
peace, love, dope

Thanks for the much needed advice. I plan on probably getting some mylar or painting the box white on my day off. I just hate going to all the hydro shops around here because the cops just stake them out. I plan on continuing to use the box for now because for right now it seems to be do the job. I read on this forum and other forums of people using cardboard boxes (the bulbs are rated at 110 F and the box should definetly beabout withstand 125 F temps. I also plan on reducing the number of babies until i have 6-8 healthy ones (i rather start with a high number and seed out the weak). As for the lightproof issue i can barely see anylight in the position it is in the closet, and i dont plan of flowering in the box and i probably wont flower in the rubbermaid either. I considering going with a 600w cool tube for flowering when my lease is up next month and i move by myself. Thanks once again for answering my questions. See u all soon
Killa12345

PS. I origanally was going to the the emergency blanket on PVC before the box but i heard the blankets retain to much heat which is a real problem where i live...Temps at 8:30 am 87F and its only May:)

The soil mix is a seedling mix i got at walmart for $2 then mixed it with a 1/4 perlite, but the plants were started and still sit in jiffy pellets.

ive tried the seedling mix without the perlite and the soil seemed to retain to much water. Even with the perlite i water each cup 3oz of water with a turkey baster and they looked a little saggy. I dont plan on watering for another 2days or every 3 days. The next watering ill only give them 2 oz next time and check on them daily.:)

check out Zebulon's little cardboard box, it may inspire you.
here's a link to one of his threads
http://boards.cannabis.com/grow-log/...-grow-log.html
read through it, it's a few pages long but it has LOTS of useful and inspiring info

bozo,
peace, love, dope

So i took should's advice i woke and saw the post i found a brand new can of flat white paint in my garage.....Painted the box white.....took all but 10 min it a roller and 2inch paint brush.......let it dry for like 2 hrs.

Left came back home and i dont know if its just me but all the babies really perked up instead of leaning toward the light...even the babies in the back....Thanks i really never thought it would make a difference this fast but i guess flat white paint goes along way.

By the way, most of the babies are getting their second set of true leaves....Thanks for the advice....ill be posting pics in a day or two.:)

glad you liked Zeb's log too, i thought you'd find it helpful

ive come to a crossroad in my grow....i just ordered 20 seeds from dr. chronic. White label's double bubble and white skunk hoppefully they are good strains and my seeds actually come...Ive heard only good things about dr. chronic i thought id go cheap until i know they will come...then i will purchase some more exotic strains.....heres were the crossroad come im going to continue this grow until the seeds get here which at that time i might start the new seeds or i might let this first grow continue for experience....i just dont know what im growing now but i hope its good.

Nice bro, you are a little further along than I am, but we both started on similar routes. I hope to procure some 'premium' seeds soon either as a gift, or possibly a favor, but I think I am going to let my bag seed grow run it's entirety.

Reason being, curiosity. Besides, you started something, so finish it. I am excited about eventually reaping what I have sown, lol

Well guys its day 4 of veg and the third set of leaves seem to be a purplish brown i dont know what the problem is....if there is one.....i rotated the plants with the purplish leaves with some of the smaller plants in the back till i find some answers. i removed the mutant out of the box. it had its baby leaves around the true leaves for like 3 days, but i did look at the rooting system and the plant looked to have healthy roots(about 20 different shoots going further then half way down the cup)...The soil still felt a little moist but a tad dry on top....ill probably hold off watering for another day.

Please any feedback on the 3rd set of leaves turning this color would definetly be appeciated.. Here are some pics.

http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/k...4/DSC00781.jpg

http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/k...4/DSC00782.jpg

http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/k...4/DSC00784.jpg

Last night before i went to sleep i looked at my babies and most of them seemed very droopy......Usually from most of the pics the plants are usually very perky and the leaves usually reach for the light.....My conclusion is underwatering just a little....the soil seems very dry....so i woke up this morning plants are still droopy so i will water today 2oz and try to water every other day.....my last watering was on monday with 3oz each plant which seemed to much for every other day watering, but to little for water every third day.....Have a good day peeps and stay tuned it...:jointsmile:

Well guys it looks like im on my own:(. No one is really leaving comments or saying anything, but i will continue the log because i see people are looking just not commenting..please i need it to stay organized with my thoughts

Well its Day 8 since the seeds popped out of their lovely little jiffy pellets. 6 of the 12 are getting their 4th set of leaves while the others are still on their third set of leaves. I bought a moisture meter to make sure the soil was damp enough.

2 babies are starting curling downward but are still growing..I think this was due to letting the soil dry out to much....these 2 plants heve been the runts throughout the grow till this point so i thought i leave them in the box till day 14.

on a good note......all my friends who have grows going which told me to wait for clones are all starting to come through...Hopefully in the next few days i might have some clones of pink or strawberry cotton candy, og black haze (which is a local strain that been around probably over 30 yrs. and is some of the best bud ive ever smoke except that it takes usually over 12 wks. to flower), and the origanal sour diesel ( which my friend said he got from one of his long time NY grower):thumbsup: We will see though i been promised clones for the last 2 weeks, and is the reason i ordered seeds last week.

I also added 2 drops of superthrive to 1 gallon tap water to help with root stimulation.

I continued to water each plant 2oz of water every other day which seems to be working.

Here are the pics.....Please leave advice or comments...i could really use some confidence....being my first solo grow.

Heres some pics of my droopy plant

And all the pics from above are pics right before today watering..

2nd pic below is all the babies in da box
till next time

killa12345:thumbsup:

Hey Killa,

Looking good, the watering becomes easier as the plants get bigger, like you said when they're happy the leaves point upwards then when they start dropping they're telling you they want watering. Give them a good watering and let them dry out, cannabis likes a wet/dry cycle rather than being permanently wet.

Glad to see you sorted your pics out ;)

Actually they look overwatered to me because of the soil, unless you just watered. If that's the case and they were too dry you've already solved your problem by the time I'm posting. Those lil guys are just in styrofoam cups so knowing when to water by weight is super easy. You don't need a moisture meter ;)

When the cups feel light (and before they start drooping) give 'em a good watering, enough so a little bit comes out the bottom drainage holes.

Do this a couple times and you learn to differentiate very well.

Happy growing, Killa!

i use a moisture meter to know when to water, it takes a little getting used to but once you do it makes it alot easier.

I plan on transplanting the plants on friday which is only 5 days away.....I need a soil mixture...This is what i was thinking:

Also i can see the roots coming out of the hole i made for draining....should i transplant eariel than my proposed date.

30% Premium Top Soil ( its the only soil i can find with no nutrients in it...)
maybe scotts or schultz or anything i can find at lows,hd, walmart, or taget.....All the potting soils had nuts for like 2 months to 9 months.....

30% candian peat moss

30% perlite

10% worm casting

some dolomatic lime for soil and peat moss..Ph levels

I plan on using alaskan fish fert for veg maybe with something else like bat guano or something

On another note...im really trying to find grow bags or square pots to utilite space the best...any suggestions would help.....i need them by friday

Like i said i hate going to the hydro shops around even though they are very close I REALLY HATE THEM....on that note....i also have tons of landscaping and nursuries around do you guys think they might stock a better soil mixture or my grow bags and pots

PS....the plants are really looking good after yesterdays watering with superthrive......Now most of them have their 4th set of leaves and all of them including the droopy ones are looking much stronger with the superthrive.....another watering tomorrow...hopefully with pic.....until later...peace out
killa12345

Quote:

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I currently started 15 seeds from some bagweed i had which id like to practice and get my skills before i buy some exotic seeds. all 15 seeds germinated within 2 days and i planted them all in jiffy pellets and placed the pellets in 2 inch jiggy pots until 2 days later i noticed the roots like 4 inches below the jiffy pellet in 2 days. So i replanted the jiffy pellets in 9 oz syrofoam cups so i wouldnt have to transplant the plants again for like 2 more weeks.

---

My process was VERY similar to yours. I however, lost my first two batches of germinated 'bag seeds' and eventually got the process right. I am now nursing my little sprouts along nicely.

They are doing well. I will post updates images to my Grow Log and my post in the Indoor Growing forum.

My sprouts are responding well and steadily growing. You are doing an excellent job keep at it.

Thanks for the update on your grow, Tech ;)

Yo Killa, what's happening? Your soil mix is alllllmost there - composted manure and humus instead of top soil (lowe's, walmart, etc) and use less moss, just cut the peat out of the lineup totally.

I do about 50% manure/humus, 35-40% perlite, and 10-15% potting mix (peat based) and a handful or so of lime per container. I could probably live with a bit less perlite though, and a little more compost. No castings for me right now, but feel free as I think it would be ok at 10% or so. Maybe check around some more organic boards to be sure.

Everything else sounds good. I run 3 gallon buckets in a sog-ish perpetual that I bought from Lowe's for like 3 bucks a piece. Wally world has plant-specific 3.x gallon containers for about the same price.

Hey SimonMakus, and Technique2

For Real Thanks forthe input.....I appreciate it....The problem about humus and cow compost is that is only come is 40lb bags around here and they are both sold seperately....not very expensive $2.00 a bag or so...which would be ideal...but dont you have to mix the soil and let it sit for like 2 weeks before you use.....

I really think my plants are getting rootbound already...which makes this even more of a problem..

Why I think my plants are getting rootbound:

1. My roots are coming out of every hole it its container usually 3 or 4 roots coming out of each hole. (7 holes in each 9oz cup) at the very bottom of the cup.

2. With may water schedule staying consistant.....2 oz every other day.....the plants are looking to slowly need water sooner....my plants are getting droopy after being very perky..first it was a watering every 60 hrs.....then they started to get droopy after about 48 hrs.....Now they look perfect for about 40 hrs then get very droopy. Which tells me they are using the water much quicker....i will take pics of the soil today before i water...

Last night before i went 2 sleep i looked at the plants and after being peerky all day......all the plants at night all lok droopy...so i gave each plant 1 squirt from the water bottle which equals about 2mL or 1/50 of a oz of water......not very much.......I woke up all the plants look perky again...

i think i need to transplant already.....but its only 12 days from the time they sprouted and 10 days since their first set of true leaves.

Thanks again for the comments and input
Killa12345:thumbsup:

Well i just came home for lunch to waterthe babies and what do you know back to droopy..They all were very perky this morning when i woke up after the 1 spray last night..i think i see when my babies are tell me they need water....i guess that 1-2ml only lasted 12 hrs....6 of which the lights where off.

Heres some pics: (all these pics are before watering today)

Pic 1: one of the babies today before watering
Pic 2: some pics of the babies
Pic 3: One more pic of one of the babies
Pic 4: Some of my plants curling toward the ground ( i think tell me it time for water)
Pic 5: Soil Shot to show dryness

Any comments would help
Until next time!
Killa12345:thumbsup:

Here are more pics with potential problem areas:

Pic 1: One of the leaves has this on the tip....(The only one though)....Not really worried

Pic 2: This is right after watering (1 minute) But the plant is turning downward and some of the leafs in my garden are taco'ing maybe 6 leaves out of all the leaves on all the plants...

Pic 3: One of the draining holes for the cups.....are the roots poping out a problem

Pic 4: another pic of the roots on the very bottom of the cup

Are these plants showing signs of rootbound?

Any suggestions would help
Killa12345:thumbsup:

then yeah, the roots popping out the bottom will only make transplanting more difficult and also damaging to the roots, if the roots are at the bottom of your cups, i'd transplant into larger pots, not too much larger either, i've become convinced by everything i've read here, especially StinkyAttic's threads, that you're better off transplanting several times into slightly larger pots than just doing it once into a big pot, better, healthier roots. i'd also just trim that dead shit off that leaf, i don't know if it's necessary but i do it anyway and it hasn't seemed to hurt my plants. i may be wrong but i believe that dead shit like that will spread down the leaf, if you trim it, it should stop the spread. then, you'll only have half a leaf but it will be healthy.
anyway, toke amongst yourselves

bozo,
peace, love, dope

No i don't think that they are rootbound yet, but Bozo is rite whit the continuous transplanting....imo you should wait a bit longer whit the transplant, till the plants develop stronger roots....
And i think that it would be maybe better if the drain holes would be on the bottom of the pots, and not on the side, so excess water can leave more easily, because the plants look a bit over watered....

There are large holes also on the bottom a little better than a 1/4 inch.

Just stoppin by to see your progress. I like you had issues where my plants were drinking A LOT more than I was providing. (well in my case the older sprouts)

Make sure you peek in on my little operation.
http://boards.cannabis.com/grow-log/...l-venture.html

Put those babies in some bigger containers, and they'll thank you for it. That's actually a lot of nice root growth for that young of a plant. Go ahead and grab some 1 gallon pots and switch those ladies out. Trust me, you'll be watering less ;) My from-seed plants go to three different homes over their lifecycle. Some ppl do even more though!

Bozo, I disagree about cutting off the dead tip. The pic doesn't even show us what the problem is (maybe work on your focus, Killa :smokin: ) and until we find out, don't cut anything off. Necrosis should not occur in a plant that young. I'm betting it's a pH issue, but we'll see.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SimonMakus

Put those babies in some bigger containers, and they'll thank you for it. That's actually a lot of nice root growth for that young of a plant. Go ahead and grab some 1 gallon pots and switch those ladies out. Trust me, you'll be watering less ;) My from-seed plants go to three different homes over their lifecycle. Some ppl do even more though!

Bozo, I disagree about cutting off the dead tip. The pic doesn't even show us what the problem is (maybe work on your focus, Killa :smokin: ) and until we find out, don't cut anything off. Necrosis should not occur in a plant that young. I'm betting it's a pH issue, but we'll see.

---

This is EXACTLY what I am planning to do. I have 4 - one gallon MATCHING pots as it stands, but I also have access to some mix-match one gallon pots as well. I am a person that appreciates uniformity so I like for everything to be consistent so as not to create any placebo effects. (nothing like blaming that un-initiated for YOUR fowl-ups)

I eventually plant to procure some 5 gallon containers to transplant to for their final home, but that is a LONG time from now so I can hold off.

killa12345,

You should definitely transplant ASAP to avoid un-due stress, stunted growth or complications later on when you are FORCED to transplant. Nice Growing!:D

Update:

One Monday i posted problems with my plants....thanks to some of the people out there i determined the ph was way to low for safety...
Tap Water= 7.6 ph
Soil Runoff= 6.0 ph ( way too low)

So i flushed the plants....none of them showed much improvement but stickyattic said it would work.....and i believe her....

Soil dried out mostly as you will see from the pics on transplant day.

Well its a sad day today some of the babies had to go....Well not really...I decided to transplant today into 5 and 6 in pots....The problem is only 6 plants fix into the box this way so..I knew this day would come just not soo soon....i choose the plants that looked the best to transplant....The other 6.......Well those went into 1 gal pot....and placed outside just in case.....:cool:

The soil mixture i used was 1 part black gold cow compost/1 part organic potting soil with no ferilizers (found at local nursury)/ 1 part perlite.

I added 8 or 9 tsp. of Dolomitic Lime to the mixture for Ph because i used about 10 gals of soil/compost

Bought 10 soil ph test kits.....now i should be able to get a good read.....soil reads at 6.9 ph......i think thats going to be better...
Bought some plant ph up/down...placed one drop of down in my gal of 7.6 ph water.....knocked it down right at 6.7.....Think this is also going to help....Also stinkyattic told me to go back to 24 hrs of light which i started on monday also...

Here are some pics of transplant day...Sorry for the sh*tty pics
its like 100 F outside....want to get back in the A/C

Till Next Time
Killa12345:thumbsup:

On another note:

My seeds from Dr. Chronic came yesterday.....which was only 6 days from the night i ordered them including the weeking...he sent shipping conf. on Friday so they took 3 days to get here....Some where in the US....

Heres some more pics from Transplant day..



See You all Soon
Killa12345:thumbsup:

They look great....nice work so far....:thumbsup:
Remember to give they enough water...and soon you can maybe start to give them some grow nutes...low dosage of course...
Keep it up....:jointsmile: