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(Coming from a Christian standpoint)I was thinking since there are ghosts that maybe when you die and you have not accepted God or Christ that you may not go to a firery Hell but instead your spirit is left on this earth where you cannot communicate with anyone or do anything and you are just a lonely and miserable soul. Your just here and you literally cant do anything. That would suck so bad!
What do you guys think?
Good question, which I think might apply to the dead who have been unsaved up until the final judgment. But, during the final judgment as depicted in Revelation 20:11-15, Hell (or Hades) is described as a "lake of fire" reserved for Lucifer, his minions, and those who have consistently denied the Father.
I do, on the other hand, wonder if those who have died up until now (saved and unsaved) wander the earth awaiting the final judgment. Christ said He would be going to prepare the new Jerusalem (in Heaven) for the believers, which makes me think that only a select few old saints are actually in Heaven right now. The rest of the meek shall inherit the earth after the new Jerusalem descends as the capital of the earth. If this is true, then either the dead are in a state of suspended animation, are merely sleeping (as described in Job 14:12 and John 11:11-13), or their souls are left to wander the earth until the rapture or final judgment.
Either way, it's comforting to know that we won't just cease to exist after we die, but rather will still have something to look forward to, or something to regret for all eternity.
You'd get used to it. You'd be able to hang out with other dead freethinkers like yourself, wouldn't have to pay taxes, no more sickness, slaving at a job, or going through any other troubles at all. You could read, go to concerts for free, smoke free dope anywhere in the world, peek into ladie's dressing rooms in stores, and just laugh all the time. It sounds like a better deal than growing wings and flying around playing that stupid harp all day. If I had my choice, I'd take "hell" anytime - whatever it's like. Much cooler, IMHO. :thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by zeitgeist
I find it very discomforting to think that death is only the beginning. I look to death as falling asleep. When you are completely, utterly deep asleep, you do not think, feel or have any state of consciousness (aside from dreams, but that is a different topic). I believe this is what death will bring: a comforting, slow, drifting return into the dimension of sleep where all feeling and consciousness simply has no place. This separate dimension is where all human minds exist and are created, and it is where our minds reside while we sleep. When we die our minds will slip back into this other dimension, bringing us a final rest from the toils of this 3 dimensional existence.
I think; live free, die well; after that, you play it by earQuote:
Originally Posted by zeitgeist
Almost sounds like heaven to me.:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Breukelen advocaat
Your theories are interesting but they will receive much opposition in the future. I don't believe much of anything I read but this is interesting stuff, nonetheless.
I just thought I would point out it was Ronald Reagan who stated the "alien threat" back in the 1980s. The better you know, the better we know.
the concept of a system of existence that includes permanent separation from god with any of his creation (including humans) is beyond my comprehension.
in the beginning was god. all else from there was created and designed by god. god had COMPLETE creative control on how the system would work. why would god choose a system that according to traditional christian belief means that probably more than half of created "souls" will be permanently separated from their creator (all muslims, buddhists, hindus, gnostics, etc from all time)?
why wouldn't there be a simple fail-safe like the idea of reincarnation which still preserves free-will by the possibility of endless cycles for those who will never choose to reconnect with the creator, while not allowing anyone to be "lost?" that would maintain free-will as much or more than a system that sets free-will as "either love me(god) or burn and suffer forever!" i don't understand (though i respect) how anyone can see that as free-will.
somehow a system of 100% success sounds more like the plan of a god that is LOVE. it would not have to compromise the HOLINESS of god at all either since there would still always be temporary separation until the soul came to a "readied" place.
daal.. with all respect i ask how it is that you believe that there are no "interpretations" when the christian faith is split into numerous sects over such "interpretations" (pre-tribulation, post-tribulation, speaking in tongues as sole proof of baptism of the holy spirit and salvation, etc)?
as far as the meaning of biblical symbols, each generation sees them and their fulfillment in the circumstances of their era. that is why christians since the time of the apostles have believed that "we are living in the end times."
All of my posts have been removed as well......
Daal please show me where in the scriptures it says one must be an Israelite to be with God in heaven?
I KNOW what Heaven is. Just because I don't believe in your twisted idea of Heaven to fit your view of being superior I am wrong? You have a weird interpretation of the bible and that's all it is as far as I am concerned. I continue to read the Bible in the hopes I will figure things out on my own. I do not go to church at all I stopped at a very young age because I saw through the things they tried to teach me but, I still don't believe God is a racist that only put some people here for the purpose to burn in hell and their is nothing they can do about it.
Revelation 22:14 "Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city"
No matter what they truth maybe I will never put down or enslave another human to satisfy my own needs and wants. For it is someone I am not. The Lord made me who I am and their is nothing I can or would want to do about it.
Do you believe Jesus is your lord and savior?
The only thing I wanna know is....
Why make such a massive universe, with stars and planets and galaxies strewn about if you're just going to ignore it all and focus on on little blue and green planet? Why not make life on other planets and care about them too? Seems like it would have been a lot easier to just forget the rest and make just our Earth.
If being a good person damns me so be it. Like you said the Lord has a plan and this is his plan for me.
Would we be any better for doing the same? Does the Lord not teach us to be loving and forgiving of our fellow man? The bible seems to contradict it self if this is true.......
You seem to interpret many things differently then I including my posts. I said that IF it were true then it would contradict it self. Please do not put words in my mouth.
MATTHEW 5:7 "Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy."
5:8 "Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall be called the children of God."
5:9 "Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God."
5:10 "Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake:for their's is the kingdom of heaven."
5:11 " Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake."
5:20 "For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven."
5:39 " But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but, whoever so shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other side."
5:42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away."
5:44 "But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despite fully use you, and persecute you;"
5:47 "And if you salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?"
This seems to be plenty proof that the lord wishes us to love our fellow man.
Matthews 5:38 " Ye have heard that it hath been said, AN EYE FOR AN EYE, AND A TOOTH FOR A TOOTH:"
5:39 " But I say unto you, That ye not resist evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also."
I think that this makes it clear that was said in the old is not of relevance for the new says different. I think this shows that God's plan has changed. That this shows his merciful side.
Matthews 5:47 "And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?"
So first you said the lord meant for us to love our fellow Israelites. Now you say that we should love our fellow man for the time being. It seems you are actively trying to find ways for the scriptures to fit your views. I wonder what you will say about my last post. I have eyes and I can read. The bible has never been so clear to me. I thank you for telling me to read the bible and keep reading it because I am beginning to understand the lords plan.
live-die-worm food........tis all, enjoy life while its here, its over when ya die...its too easy to put blind faith in religion, its a great crutch, thank the egyptians for making it. But IMHO, when you die, you die...like al capone said, "hell must be a mighty swell place, if everyone is trying to keep you out of it"
I am SURE this will incite many nasty replies, but have any of you read the Satanic Bible?...there is more "provable truth" in there than there is in the Holy Bible...No disrespect Daal, but how can you say the bible isnt theories, that its all been proven? maybe in YOUR interpretations you think it has....but come on man...really?
whiskeytango
I just dont see putting all my proverbial eggs in one basket for something that no one can prove.
All that is needed is faith. I KNOW the Lord has helped me in my life many times. I have to admit their where many times in my life when I questioned if he was real or not but, he helped me in so many ways that their isn't doubt in my mind any more.
I have no doubts that you're well-versed in scripture, but you keep on saying that you're not offering interpretations, you're merely reciting the Word, and that everyone who has eyes can see - and ears can hear, etc,... but you are offering interpretations to all these scriptures you're listing. How can you not see that?Quote:
Originally Posted by Daal Curry Surprise
I commend you for reciting from the KJV of the Bible, which I believe is the most accurate translation. You're presenting the scriptures in a concise fashion, and they indirectly tie in to the points you're trying to make, but it almost seems like you're just trying to be controversial to 'stir the pot', so to speak.
You have to be controversial to get into the Kingdom of Heaven? Care to elaborate on that? As far as I can remember, the scriptures tell us something quite different:
"For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father." (Ephesians 2:14-18)
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Doesn't it almost seem like peace should be the focal point for how God wants us to live our lives? The interpretation of the verse in Matthew, where Jesus says "I did not come to bring peace, but a sword..." is highly speculative as to what He meant. You see, you take ten Christians and line them up, you'll probably get a different interpretation from all ten for this passage. Take ten atheists, and you'll get the same. What makes your interpretation correct?
We've all sinned, and none of us has all the answers... regardless of how right we think we are.
"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God." (Romans 3:23)
"God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged." (Romans 3:4)
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We've all fallen short of the Glory of God, and are sinners. You've broken God's Commandments, just as I have, as well as the rest of humanity. No matter our deeds, we are dead in trespasses and sin, and WILL be judged.
"For the wages of sin is death;" (Romans 6:23)
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We can't earn our way into Heaven, not by deeds, not by leading souls to Christ, not by being a 'nice guy' or a 'controversial guy'. If we could, then Jesus would have died for nothing.
"I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain." (Galatians 2:21)
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We deserve nothing less than the death penalty, which leads us back to Romans 6:23... BUT, there's a way around that, as you know. I'm sure you're familiar with John 3:16. We ARE to love our fellow man, and to preach the Gospel to others with kind hearts and an understanding nature. Being controversial for a "greater good" is contradictory to the command to love our friends and also to love and pray for our enemies:
"Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends." (John 15:13)
"Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust." (Matthew 5:43-45)
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You also keep saying that Jesus died for the sins of Israel, and that the rest of the Gentiles are apparently on their own. This is an interpretation, and is subject to much debate. Numerous passages suggest that Jesus was slain for all nations and all people, so that anyone who believes will reign in Heaven:
"And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth." (Revelation 5:9-10)
"And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us. For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly." (Romans 5:5-6)
"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin." (1 John 1:7)
"...but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." (Romans 6:23)
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So, brother, I think that your heart is in the right place, but I feel your interpretations are going against the actual Word of God in several places. Also, the whole 'controversial theory' of yours regarding scripture seems that it would be more of a hindrance to someone who's not saved, and looking deeper into what salvation actually means. It doesn't mean eternal servitude to the nation of Israel, it means eternal servitude to our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. This is what you should be preaching.
Remember, Jesus healed MANY non-Jews during His ministry, and in the New Testament, Simeon blesses the child Jesus, and says that he will be a ??light to the nations? (Luke 2:29-32). Jesus reaches out to heal people who are not Jewish, like the man with the demon in the Greek city of Gerasa (Mark 5), the deaf man in the region of Tyre and Sidon (Mark 7:31-37), and the young servant of a Roman officer (Matthew 8:5-13). The apostles decide that anyone from any nation who worships God and does right is acceptable to God (Acts 10:35).
Lastly, peace and understanding still works today, and has helped many of ministries bring people closer to God. Sadly, there's a whole lot of hate and vitriol that we have to compete with, but we knew that when we were told of our impending persecution some 2000-odd years ago. Jesus died for all of us, not just a select few. The ones who acknowledge that gift, and accept Christ as their savior, will ultimately inherit the Kingdom of God.
((By the way, per your first response to me in this thread, I never said that New Jerusalem would be anywhere but earth. Reread what I wrote, I said: "Christ said He would be going to prepare the new Jerusalem (in Heaven) for the believers, which makes me think that only a select few old saints are actually in Heaven right now. The rest of the meek shall inherit the earth after the new Jerusalem descends as the capital of the earth."))
Take care.
I'm thinking that, am I? You see, it's easy to think others have their ideas twisted when you're putting words right into their mouths...Quote:
Originally Posted by Daal Curry Surprise
You people? I'm not sure if you're referring to me, or to everyone else who's replied thus far, but this 'holier than thou' attitude isn't convincing anyone that you're more knowledgeable about scriptures than anyone else who studies Christian doctrine, either on their own, or via institutions such as churches. If you're referring to me, I DO read from the OT as well as the NT, and I've given you no reason to suspect otherwise. Stop generalizing, please. It's ridiculously condescending.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daal Curry Surprise
As for the Edomites, here's a good interpretation about the remnants of Esau:
The EDOMITES
Mostly conjecture, but interesting to read nonetheless. If you're going to offer up conjecture and label it as truth, then I wish you all the best. I thought maybe I could reason with you, and even offered up some scripture to gain a little bit of credibility in your eyes, but I can see now that it's a futile effort. I'm always glad to see someone who's actively evangelizing, but it irritates me when I notice that they're offering only their interpretations of the scripture (which you ARE doing), and aren't willing to discuss scriptural topics that you may not agree with. That's not a conversation, it's a one-sided argument, and nothing good will ever come out of arguing with a wall.
Regardless of what you may think, you're no more or less valued in the eyes of our Lord than any of His other children who actively praise Him, spread the gospel to nonbelievers, and live their life by His Commandments. You just have an alternative means of interpreting our Holy scripture... but it IS an interpretation, nonetheless. That's all any of us are able to do: interpret what we read, even BETWEEN the lines, and spread our INTERPRETATION of God's word to those who'll listen. I'm not saying your interpretations are wrong, even though that's apparently what you're saying about mine. By the way, I wasn't indoctrinated into a church at all. I came to Christ by my own volition, and have read the Bible for many years (even as an agnostic) in order to come up with my own conclusions.
Luckily for me, my church happens to agree with my interpretations! Which reminds me... I gotta run, I'm off to evening church services. (Guess that makes you think even LESS of me now, huh? :D)
So if you smack a white man in the face and the mark turns red, what would YOU do with him? Would you carry on your way or fulfill something for yourself?
I remember the thought of all humanity originating from Africa. Is that not true?
LOL! By your estimation, I'm probably more ISRAELITE than you are! My mothers side of the family is entirely ITALIAN and SICILIAN, and my father... AMERICAN INDIAN! (By the way, you should learn to cool it with the all caps. It makes a person look like a yelling, ranting, and boisterous lunatic...) Anyway, I've got an old genealogy report laying around somewhere, if you're curious about the tribes, but they're all there. Still, that doesn't mean a thing.
You are right about one thing, though... it's NOT your job to convince me, nor anyone else for that matter, that you even have the remotest clue what you're talking about in these rants of yours. It was Christ's job to do the convincing, and I'd say He did a pretty good job, seeing that Christianity is thriving today amidst a world full of homicidal Islamic factions, spiteful atheistic rhetoric, misleading evolutionary theory, and fanatical/overzealous so-called "Christians" running about and claiming that they (and only they) have the answers that mainstream Christianity is desperately searching for. We don't need any interpretations of scripture, especially not any that are taken out of context, because our Bible is proof that God needs no mediator to relay/decipher the message. He only needed the prophets to write the message. Aside from that, it's up to His children to decipher it. We don't need the opinion of conceited and persistently rude know-it-alls to decipher it for us! (P.S. - Sorry if that was rude!)
But hey, God bless you for trying. I know, in your own roundabout way, you're just trying to help... but I have a sneaking suspicion that you're scaring people away from Christianity, as opposed to drawing them closer to the Lord. One last scripture for you to ponder and write off as inconsequential:
"But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea." (Matthew 18:6) ;)
I hope you learn to tame that little temper of yours. Remember, regardless of whether you adhere to it or not, Jesus said that we should love our neighbor... not be rude to them for the sake of grabbing attention. And if you're wrong, and non-Israelites can inherit the Kingdom of God without being submissive servants of the Israelites, then you might want to consider that passage I just wrote for you above. (Or does that only apply to non-Israelites who do the offending? :D)
Take care.
Hell = locked in a Marijuana garden for eternity without a lighter or anything to make fire with.
LOL! That's the most insightful thing I've read all night! :jointsmile:Quote:
Originally Posted by THClord
You wouldn't be yelling at me, my good sir! Because I'd be walking away. You'd just be yelling. If the two of us were sitting together, in-person, I have a feeling we'd be discussing these topics and the Bible like civil adults. You make commanding statements, and for that I'll again commend you, but I still think you're going about it the wrong way. I've never once had to be forceful with my views in order to help a new believer put things into context. I remember all too well from my days of agnosticism how blunt and dogmatic some people could be, and I promised myself when I got saved that I would never be one of those people. But I've still managed to save a lot of people through civil discussion, and continue to do so to this day.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daal Curry Surprise
"Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers." (Ephesians 4:29)
Edifying: "to instruct or benefit, esp. morally or spiritually; UPLIFTING." Now, this could all boil down to semantics, as I'm not really sure what the Greek or Hebrew translation is, but I think the concept remains unchanged.
Again, kudos to you! Your heart is in the right place! But, this is also my life, too. I also live by the words that I preach. To do otherwise would be utterly hypocritical. If what you're doing is working for you, then keep doing it, by all means. But, try not to get testy with others who are also doing the same, just with a less demanding attitude. We're fighting for the same cause here, brother! We both have the same DREAMS, after all, and our life's purpose seems to be similar: to draw others closer to God.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daal Curry Surprise
Take care, and God bless.
Likewise, my friend. :jointsmile:Quote:
Originally Posted by Daal Curry Surprise
Daal... in your opinion how is it that the bible has maintained its integrity through the hundreds and hundreds of years it was held almost solely in the hands of the corrupt catholic church?
actually daal we are having this same conversation on another thread that is more appropriate... why dont we just continue on the other...
here is a link for anyone interested in following that question without jacking the topic of this thread.
http://boards.cannabis.com/spiritual...ity-bible.html
where do you think King James got the resources and documents to translate?
all the documents had already been in the hands of the Catholic church. whenever anything (scroll, parchment, etc) was found it went straight to Rome! all the scriptures (except the original jewish Torah really) has been tainted by the hand of man allowed by the very free-will god gave us.
Maybe Heaven and Hell aren't places you go. Maybe its where you are. I've lied cheated stolen and such and it seems like a cycle you can lock yourself into. The lying and the cheating and stealing cuased me terrible anxiety. You have to live in fear of what people might find out about you. You don't get to have any peace in your life if your watching your back so it don't get stabbed especially if you know thats what you would do.
On the other hand if I do right even though it costs something from me. I feel good as long I know I did everything I could.
You will return to God at sooner or later, when you die and you hav'nt ascended there is a good chance you'll just be in the same consiousness as you were in when you died. In other words, you're already in hell.
Some bible quotes out of boredom
"Turn us again to yourself, O Lord God Almighty. Make your face shine down upon us. Only then will we be saved." Psalm 80:19
"...Shout that the people are like the grass that dies away. ... "The grass withers, and the flowers fade beneath the breath of the LORD. And so it is with people. The grass withers, and the flowers fade, but the word of our God stands forever." Isaiah 40:6-8
"And so the Lord says, "These people say they are mine. They honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far away. And their worship of me amounts to nothing more than human laws learned by rote." Isaiah 29:13
ok, i can only take so much of the bible in one sitting
My Thoughts exactly. I dont believe in a god or a devil but i think i would prefer a lake of fire with my fellow agnostic, stoner, etc. friends over a magical place in the heavens with a bunch of people that havent "lived" and have stayed in church there whole life never experiencing life to the fullest. i just dont understand how you can worship someone that says he is a perfect beingthat does not "sin" than lies to the bitch about the fruit in the first fucking book!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Breukelen advocaat