help! problems with wilting

Hello,

Been plagued by issues lately with my grows, lately i've been experiencing troubles with going from clone(45w) to flower(i only use a 600w for starters), they wilt, each time the light is on they wilt more and more. But when its been dark for a period they are right back up there with the best. So the question is how is it best to harden the plant into the new enviroment? As everything else is more or less perfect, atleast compared to the veg room, only real difference is the light, but whatever i do nothing gets better, however far i move the light the still wilt.

And yes i know 45 watt is probably a tad low, but i want roots and thats perhaps the valid answer to my own question too, they have to be on the cycle until they have developed enought roots to handle the light. Still i've grown hydro before and i've not experienced this before, been plagued for months now :|.

I've also used some h202 and some physan 20 to decontaminate the water if anything was present, as this was one of the uncovered parts of my investigation. But it doesnt really seem to help, however the physan 20 removed some algae from the water. They had some sort of yellow slime on them, phytium? whaterever it was its gone now, atleast on its way. Dont flip out about the phytium cuz thats just a guess, and sadly; i couldnt tell even if my life depended upon it.

Im seriously considering going into soil(!) so please help me out here :), and im sure i left out some vital info, but please ask and i will yield to your inqueries.

____NoobForm Below

E-indoor or outdoor - indoor
E-soil, soilless, coco, aero, or hydroponic - aerohydroponic? (homemade hydro system with aero misters, but not aero by definition as im not using foggers.)
E-specific medium - no medium, using neoprene discs to keep the plants at bay.
HCL-Hydro/aero/soilless system type - container with pvctubing with attached misters that mist the roots from below, solution sitting at bottom wich the roots reach and are soaked in.
SCL-Anything you have added to the soil/water - yes, h202 and physan 20. But not initially, just whilst trying to correct this problem, however it doesnt seem to work.
E-Water source - spring, very low ec, live in a very low populated area in europe, northern part.
E-Source water pH - 7.8 (however solution ph that my hydro holds is more or less stable at 6.2)
HRT-Source water EC (if hydro) - same as above.
E-Age of plant - motherplant is about a year.
E-Type of fertilizer - hesi series.
E-Rate of application (if hydro, this is your PPM number, preferably after each component is added) - i dont know the initial ec of each of the hesi components, but the water has an ec of 1.4 atm.(hanna crap meter)
E-Lighting source and distance from plant - atm only running a 600w from over a meters distance.(4 foot)
E-Air temperature (both day and night if you are running a dark period) - 24,5c roomtemp at day, temp under lights is around 28celsius, night temp is between 21 and 23, using a digital fan controller(tyristor).
HD-Reservoir temperature - 23,5
E-Air % Relative humidity - 30-38%
E-Lighting schedule - 12/12
E-Type of ventilation your room has - 350mh3 intake fan, 420mh3 carbon scrubbed out. RVK fans.

How about some photos of the plants while they look bad and also while they dont? It would help a lot!

mis-post, sorry :jointsmile:

During cloning, a very small light is perfect.
Now, have you tried hardening them off using an intermediate light before putting them under the HPS? For example, if you are cloning under a small CFL, try stepping up to a tube flouro shop light while they adjust to dry air and uptaking water through the roots rather than the stomata. When you see that they are in vigorous vertical growth, with a good respectable root system, put them under the HPS, but have it HIGH and lower it gradually, stopping if any wilt is observed.
A last trick is to use some type of anti-transpirant on them- LIGHTLY so as not to suffocate the lil things. Wilt-Pruf, neem oil, and SMC leaf wash are all possibilities. I like Wilt-Pruf DURING cloning and SMC AFTER, because it is a bit lighter weight than the plastic in wilt-pruf.
Just some hints to try out.

First of thanks for taking the time to looking at my pirate plants.

Ill try to post some pics, problem is tho my cam sucks. But to describe it, when the plants wilt the go from almost straight leaves to bent downward and curled inwards until they loose all stiffness and go into jellymode. (nice description eh?) Almost like a soil plant without water. This however supports my initial idea of the hps sucking all water out due to rather skimpy roots. But whatever i do they still seem to think i suck ass and do everything they can to wilt.

I will try a 400mh on a 5 foot range and see if it helps, next step is using a couple of 30watt fluors, but currently i kinda need those elsewhere. The reason i dismiss this more or less is not because im lazy but as said because i've tried almost anything. It seems the more i inhibit the light to reach the plants the longer time it takes them to wilt, this perhaps is a good sign, but the outcome is always the same: wilt.

I hate wilting, really. :(

But what else could it be? i've taken every precaution now it seems, and only thing different between veg and flower room; is the light. Never had this kinda problem before, but then again i've been making clones under the distant light of a mh and an additional 30w fluor. Im gonna try soiling a few clones in case the light theory has a flawd logic.

Any suggestions/comments very very welcome.

me too. :(

BUT the good news is Stinky cured the wilting in my clones and I bet she can fix yours too. :thumbsup:

Im curious tho, the wilt-pruf and leaf wash are those just to inhibit the ammount of light hitting the plants as they cover the plants with a thin film? Cant i just use baking soda or some kind of chalk. Or do they contain some uber fancy stuff that envelops the plant in its own bio-dome.=) ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cyberwax

Im curious tho, the wilt-pruf and leaf wash are those just to inhibit the ammount of light hitting the plants as they cover the plants with a thin film? Cant i just use baking soda or some kind of chalk. Or do they contain some uber fancy stuff that envelops the plant in its own bio-dome.=) ?

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Dunno much about leaf wash, but Wilt-Pruf is a pine oil derivative that prevents loss of moisture in foliage through transpiration. Which for clones is a blessing, as they aren't able to uptake moisture through their roots since they don't have any! :jointsmile:

It's also biodegradable and non-toxic, which is another blessing to have when you're growing consumable plants.

Nope, the point in cloning waxes and horticultural oils is to seal the upper surface of the leaf against moisture loss. The plant does make its own thin waxy cuticle, but this may not be enough to protect it from dry air when it is going through the stress of cloning. So I guess you can say it is like a little portable humidity dome on each leaf. Be careful not to overapply- you don't need much.
Another bonus is that both neem and coriander oils inhibit fungal spores taking hold on your little plants.

Edit: Hahaha Mr. C gots the speedy fingers this morning! :D

Im gonna order me some neem oil, meanwhile im gonna try to move in some new clones, dome em and give it a fair chance in days to get used to the idea of more light. Slowly removing the dome. This should atleast be a temporary measure?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stinkyattic

Edit: Hahaha Mr. C gots the speedy fingers this morning! :D

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LOL! Rusty would be proud! :jointsmile:

There have been numerous, numerous occasions where we'd type a reply, only to see that you beat us to the punch! I feel an overwhelming sense of accomplishment now. :D

some pics, any diagnostic quotes and paralells? :)

no one? :p

I'm gonna say try weaker light, and then tweak your solution. That's a bubble or aero cloner, right?
You'll want to sterilize it between uses and then run it with plain water adjusted to pH 6.0 for a couple hours, then change the water to FRESH 6.0 water, before adding plants. I don't think you should put too much other stuff in there.
When you say your water is over 7, do you check the water in the cloner too?
REmoving the dome slowly is important. And misting with neem or wilt pruf makes the transition less stressful. Use these VERY lightly; they can cause problems if overapplied.

aye captn, its an aero "cloner", what u see in the pics are the my home made sog aero, but the cloner it is not. Everything except the pump is new on this setup, and the pump has been sterilized and a half.

Water in cloner and water in the sogger is both the same, from 5.8 to 6.5, the initial water has a ph of around 7.8(tapwater).

Removing the dome, well, the dome is removed from the initial cloner, however the room they are in aint very ventilated so the room itself might work as a dome.

But ill try as suggested at first, ill put the dome back on when i put em in flowering(atleast when i move them to the flowering room), turn the lights down a tad(using a 400w mh from even further away) and we'll see if that does the trick.

But atleast you've confirmed that they look perspirated, too much heat etc. Right? :p

Incoherent english is my specialty.

And you're darn good at it too cause I understood less than half of that post.

PS.. You're in the best hands with Stinster...;)

lols, sry for that, but nevertheless the pictures should speak for themselves :p

If Stinster is stinkyattic then yes :)

You guys are both incoherent today hahaha
If you are having a hot spell, that would also account at least in part for increased water loss by transpiration.

lol and now you.

Hot spell?..:p Please explain the sentence, i think it got lost in translation.

Hot spell= temperature is higher than normal

A little update: moved in 60wattage of flour lights to the clones to make the transition easier. Changed the water without applying h202 nor physan 20, ec of around 1.2 and ph around 5.8 ish. Added a 12v computer fan to harden them up before moving. Also; as said they start with a 400w mh when moved into the flowering area. So from 105w to 400w when moved, towards 45w to 600w before.

And it actually seems to work,

*Soil test worked flawlessly as the test subject started to grow almost instantly.
*Hydro test with dome seems to work aswell, but no growing yet, however this clone was skimpy to begin with.
*Hydro test without dome works aswell, atleast it seems to, no initial wilting upon moval nor any leaf wilting signs in 1 day, but too early to show any growth as of yet.

If anyone is considering moving on to hydro, make sure, and by that i mean sure you do everything right, read read read and learn.