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Hey everyone,
Now I'm aware of red stems and nitrogen deficiencies but I Have a month old indoor that has become dark PURPLE between a section of two nodes down the stem. Is this some sort of extreme N deficiency, or is this a whole 'nother beast?!:(
I'm somewhat new to this forum so I just got a hold of the troubleshooting form. Please don't discriminate against us youngin's! Any help would be appreciated- I'm known as having the worst luck amon family and friends alike, but I realize to grow sucessfully persistence and patience are key. I would appreciate some help from you knowledgeable teacher's out there:jointsmile:. So - Here is the form.
Soiless - ProMix Organic. Nothing else unfortunately. I'm aware of this glaring problem. I have other seedlings in a much better mix with vermiculite, perlite, castings, etc., but this problem plant is straight up soiliess ProMix.
Indoor Closet grow
*Nutes- I've been adding dried blood by 1/2 Tbs. every week. And a little lime initially to balance out Ph. That's it, nothing else.
*Container- 3"w(top) 6"l plastic party cups.
*Soil Ph appears to be within 6.5-7.0
*Tap Water Source
*Not sure of water Ph
*Age- 5 weeks with no nutes added yet
*Lighting- 24/0 cycle, 2x 24" Flourescent Tubes (for horticulture) at 75 watts output apiece. 1" away from plant.
*Air- Relative humidity unknown, been looking for a hygrometer. Temp is constant 72 degrees. I have a 4" desk fan introuducing air from closet.
If any other information is required, please ask. Help would be greatly appreciate d everyone. I know you have the knowledge! Spread the love.
Promix shouldn't be hurting you at this point- it's only a problem if you let it sit wet in the same pot for more than a couple months without re-potting.
You gotta get going on a correct fertilizer right away. The purple could be a sign of a micronute deficiency. Sulfur, I believe. Quick like a bunny, go pick up some real grow fert with micros. And use it! :D
I was on my way to the local plant store anyway, great! I'll post what I buy and application , etc. later. Stinky to the rescue again...Thanks for the sage advice.
Alright, so here's the scoop. Went down to the local shop and bought some "RainGrow 4-2-3 Fertilizer: Derived from Natural Sources". The directions call for 3 Tblspn per gallon; I used 1.5 Tblspn and promptly Foliar Fed by spraying quite intensely so that she (I hope!) drooped significantly. The shop was closing when I got there (bad car accident tied me up) so I was unable to get a bottle of micronutes. I will be getting that tommorow ASAP. Any suggestions, Stinky or otherwise?
Your fertilizer SHOULD have micros in it, and those will be listed in small print on the back. A hint on foliar feeding- mix your ferts weaker than normal, and add a drop of liquid dish soap. Mist lightly, allow to dry, and check back in half a day. Mist again, and monitor the plants to see how they respond. If there are brown patches, those won't heal, but if the leaves just have yellow or purplish discoloration, that should start to fade back to green in a couple days. Generally, you don't want to spary to runoff with most sprays. I do it with pyrethrin when I have to fight thrips, but otherwise, I try to use a fine, light mist and repeat it every 12 hours or so until I either see improvement or decide that it's not going to help, lol!
I sprayed twice yesterday between roughly 6 hour intervals and there is slight improvement this morning. There are no chemical burns from the fert or signs of scortching from the water evaporating quickly. The leaves are less droopy but the purple stems are still the same. While the purple has not gone away at all, it hasn't progressed any further down the stem. As for the micronutes- no luck on the fert I bought yesterday, it only contains the 4-2-3 listed on the front :(, so it's back to the grow shop for me today! Alright, I'm going to give another spray of ferts and then spray with micronutes when I get back.
While we're on the subject stinky, when do you begin to apply the ferts and by what factor? Age, development? Thanks again Stinky, you're knowledge is invaluable:thumbsup:
I start feeding at the first transplant, when the plant has about 4 sets of adult leaves, when I put the plants in 3" pots (I start them in six-pax). Before that, they get no ferts at all, including from the soil.
While you're at teh grow shop, some useful items would be a small bottle of liquid pH indicator (it's super cheap, like $7), a solid 'grow' fert with micros (try Power Plant by Botanicare, or Pure Blend Pro if you like a more organic-leaning grow), and a micronutrient supplement for those occasions that you find yourself treating a deficiency (the GH Micro works well, as does AlgoFlash, and all the fertilizer companies have their own supplement- ask the shop staff to recommend one for you). Or ask the shop staff if your RainGrow will be better if you add a micronute supplement to it when you mix your ferts.
You'll also want a bloom fert for later.
Alrighty, the store didn't have much for foliar feeding, regardless, I purchased "Liquid Iron (Chelated (whatever that means)) Concentrate" by Bonide. Here are the stats:
Mg - 0.50%
B - 0.02%
Cu - 0.25%
Fe - 5.00%
Mn - 0.25%
Zn - 0.50%
It appeared to be a pretty well-rounded micro-nutrient so I went ahead and bought it. It calls for 2 oz. for 3 Gallon, but I broke it down for one Gallon, and then diluted the amount by 1/3. This all comes down to 1 1/3 tsp per gallon. I ended up foliar feeding the plant at this dose pretty heavily today around 5. I gave it a nice mist spray until the leaves drooped more than they already are. I eagerly await tomorrow morning to see if the purple begins to recede. Stinky and crew, do you have any thoughts or suggestions concerning the feed etc.?
On a side note, I've added Lime to the plant not recently, but after 3 weeks. About 2 times with about a Tablespoon each time in the party cup. I have a soil Ph tester (non-electric Rod type) which doesn't tell me shit, so would the Lime possibly be affecting the plant? I feel like that may be the culprit......
are you giving the nutrients to the soil? or just foliar feeding? the micronutes are for the soil as well - and not sure why you added lime? my rule of thumb is don't add things unless there's a problem - how does the plant look in general? healthy? see if adding the nutes to the soil helps at all. My seedlings that I grow under a 4 tube fluoro setup all have red and purple stems but once transplanted outside they do great, and the color almost always fades - GL I don't know a whole lot but hope ur plant does better :jointsmile:
Lime is only bad for plants when it is overapplied or raises pH up out of range. However, 2 tablespoons in a party cup is WAY too much! Re-pot right away into something larger with fresh soil. If there is any lime left on the surface, scrape it off. Do a runoff pH check and adjust it if necessary.
I would use caution watering in a micronute with that high Fe content at the strength the bottle recommends for lawns and shit, especially since you have the possible Ca overdose (from the lime) thing going on.
The biggest reason IMHO to keep a quality micro supplement around in a soil grow is to help keep the plant from getting worse when you see that you have a nutrient uptake problem in the root zone, by foliar application, while you work on discovering the SOURCE of the problem, and fixing it.
Since a correct one-part fertilizer appropriate for cannabis DOES contain micros, most soil growers won't have to add a micro supplement to their fert solution. Yours doesn't, so you'll need to do that, but go EASY on it! I would use less than the bottle recommends. That's a good chunk of iron in there!
greenatik - The lime is used to increase Ph (more alkaline (Ph down more acidic)).
Now, the reason for my limey foolishness is due to the Ph stick I bought. Even after those lime applications the Ph meter never moved: I checked it after heavy water, etc. and what a load of garbage. It still says my soil is from 6.5-7.0! My model is a "Rapitest Mini Ph Tester". I think I'm going to make another thread to warn others of this potential crop killer. Errrrr..:cursing:
As for the plant itself, it shows no signs of getting better from the nutrient application - the lime must be doing it, so I'm off to re-pot the little bugger and hope for the best! My method will be to remove as much sooil as possible without touching the root ball, I hope all goes well. Thanks for the advice Stinky (you too greenatik). I had a feeling I fucked up on the liming. Regardless, I'll report back with how things are looking tomorrow. Thanks again Stinky.
the purple/red stems aren't a nitrogen-deficiency symptom ... the most common cause for that coloration is wide temperature swings, hot days, cool nights ... also commonly caused by phosphorous deficiency ... that can be caused by PH too acidic (low), locking out the phosphorous ... it's pretty much cosmetic, not a serious health problem ... :jointsmile:
Thanks for the tip Reaper. I'm such a worry wart sometimes! But as for the plant- I transplanted it into a much larger pot that it will hopefully be able to stay in for the rest of the grow. It has a bed of Perlite then on top of that is a thin layer of earthwarm castings. The mix I used was as follows:
1 part Pro-Mix Organic
1 part Vermiculite
1 Part Perlite
1 Part Earthworm Castings
NO Lime :thumbsup:
The transplant went very smoothly and it looked like the plant could have used it anyway as the roots appeared to be approaching the point of being bound. I watered heavily to make sure there was good contact as well and I did NOT use ferts of any sort. I few questions while I'm at it..... Should I have used ferts? I foliar fed yesterday so keep that in mind. Also, I feel like I should have done a soil flush to really get out the lime. Should that have been done?
You SHOULD be okay with just fresh soil. BTW promix has lime in it, but it is measured at the factory to give a predictable pH and it's appropriate to a peat-based potting mix.
There is a thread in the FAQs called why I shoudl re-pot and a sticky in basic about a continuous canopy- you should read those. Re-potting should always be to a SLIGHTLY larger pot, especially in a peat mix. It's all explained.
So the plant has been slowly,very slowly recovering as green is starting to return to the main trunk, but not the stems. After two days of waiting (yesterday) I flushed the soil with 2x the amount of water they can hold and I finally got a water test kit that works. I got it at a pet store no less and here's the deal. My water Ph is at 6.5 while surprisingly my soil runoff is at 6.0-6.2. I have no idea how this could happen especially with that dolomitic lime I put in. It's supposed to raise my Ph, go figure. The numbers tell me to add more lime, but I can't understand doing that. Stinky, can you help and be my maiden in shining armour? Or anyone else for that matter?