Hundreds Protest Dalai Lama in Seattle
Anti-Dalai Lama protest news usually gets buried. They even had a plane with a banner flying above the crowd! It's about time more people started questioning the validity of the Dalai Lama. His teachings, political connections, and agenda shoud be better scrutinized, at the very least.
Hundreds Protest Dalai Lama in Seattle
By MANUEL VALDES â?? 1 hour ago
SEATTLE (AP) â?? In a showing of pro-Chinese support, hundreds of demonstrators protested outside a college arena Monday as the Dalai Lama spoke to students on solving problems through dialogue.
Thousands of people have flocked to Seattle to hear the exiled Tibetan spiritual leader speak since he arrived Thursday for a five-day conference on compassion, but the city's Chinese community had remained largely silent until Monday.
Demonstrators held signs alleging media bias and protesting the violence from rioting by Tibetan monks.
Some echoed Beijing's stand that the Dalai Lama is behind the recent uprising against five decades of Chinese rule. Signs called the Dalai Lama a liar and a "CIA-funded militant." Many people waved large Chinese flags.
"I think that people are misinformed. They have media discrimination," demonstrator Jiange Li said. "Tibet was freed â?? 50 years ago."
The group chanted "We love Tibet," "Stop lying" and "Dalai, your smiles charm, your actions harm," as thousands of people filed into the University of Washington arena. A small plane flew overhead with a banner mirroring the chants.
The China-born community is the largest Asian immigrant group in Seattle, according to U.S. Census Bureau figures.
However, Seattle has historically been friendly to the Tibetan cause. The Dalai Lama has visited the city several times and has always been warmly welcomed.
Inside the arena, the Dalai Lama received an honorary degree and spoke of the importance of employing dialogue and mutual respect to solve problems.
He was greeted by a standing ovation. University president Mark Emmert welcomed the Tibetan leader, calling him the "pre-eminent spiritual leader of our time."
"You will make this century of peace," the Dalai Lama told students. "Today's world (is) heavily interdependent.
Destruction of your neighbor or enemy is destruction of yourself."
He said dialogue is the only way to solve conflict, especially because he sees poverty and environmental problems increasing in the future.
While his visit to the United States was billed as nonpolitical, the Dalai Lama is expected to meet with a senior U.S. official next week to discuss China's crackdown on anti-Beijing protesters in Tibet.
The Associated Press: Hundreds Protest Dalai Lama in Seattle
Hundreds Protest Dalai Lama in Seattle
Just as an aside, if Hu Jintao were to visit the United States, what sort of welcoming committee do you think he'd receive from Tibetans living in America?
Hundreds Protest Dalai Lama in Seattle
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Clandestine
Just as an aside, if Hu Jintao were to visit the United States, what sort of welcoming committee do you think he'd receive from Tibetans living in America?
Ex-Tibetans would probably protest him. But, it seems that he's pretty popular in China.
At least nobody is forced to worship Jintao as a god.
Hundreds Protest Dalai Lama in Seattle
Quote:
Originally Posted by Breukelen advocaat
At least nobody is forced to worship Jintao as a god.
In China, Jintao is feared more than God. Not many fear oppression at the hands of the Dalai Lama. 22 areas of human-rights abuses under Hu Jintao have been pointed out by the U.S. State Department; among them torture, detention of religious groups, forced abortions, forced labor, government corruption and restrictions on speech and the media.
Maybe not quite as heinous as Kim Jung Ill, but still pretty scary nonetheless.
Hundreds Protest Dalai Lama in Seattle
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Clandestine
In China, Jintao is feared more than God. Not many fear oppression at the hands of the Dalai Lama. 22 areas of human-rights abuses under Hu Jintao have been pointed out by the U.S. State Department; among them torture, detention of religious groups, forced abortions, forced labor, government corruption and restrictions on speech and the media.
Maybe not quite as heinous as Kim Jung Ill, but still pretty scary nonetheless.
The State Department should issue a statement about the way Tibet was run before China took over. It makes Jintao's administration look like a model for tolerance.
Using language like "forced abortions" is just a way to rile people up. China has realized that the world does not have unlimited resources needed for a population explosion that is expanding beyond the earth's capacity to maintain it. I don't blame them for what they are doing. Of course, the irrational religionists oppose this, and are dealt with accordingly.
In the eyes of many here and abroad, we have many freedom-limiting laws and customs ourselves, and/or have used our power and influence to force such measures on other societies.
China is not harming the West at all. They have never attacked us. They're also keeping North Korea in check, not to mention other bad regimes.
Islam is a far greater threat. Even far-out militant Christians are a greater threat than China's policies. It's about time we got our priorities straight and put religion where it belongs - in the garbage can.
Eventually, China will become more democratic - if we let them. At this point, I can't say that I blame them for balking.
We should support China's birth-control policies, unless we want billions more of them in the coming decades.
Hundreds Protest Dalai Lama in Seattle
Quote:
Originally Posted by Breukelen advocaat
The State Department should issue a statement about the way Tibet was run before China took over. It makes Jintao's administration look like a model for tolerance.
Post-1912? Or are you referring to 13th century Chinese rule? Either or, barbaric laws and barbaric laws, no matter how you slice them, and that area of the world has never really been known for their civility. Plus, in the 13th century, nearly all laws in every continent throughout the world were barbaric in nature.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Breukelen advocaat
Using language like "forced abortions" is just a way to rile people up.
It's also a way to help people focus on issues they may have been previously unaware of. Human rights are being violated over there, which shouldn't be tolerated, regardless of population explosions. There are other, more humanitarian, ways to deal with such a pressing issue. Coerced and legal murder should not be one of them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Breukelen advocaat
In the eyes of many here and abroad, we have many freedom-limiting laws and customs ourselves, and/or have used our power and influence to force such measures on other societies.
If we freely practiced even half of the human rights issues that are currently taking place in China, we'd have our collective heads on the chopping block with the rest of the world wielding the ax. Why should China be exempted from consequence?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Breukelen advocaat
China is not harming the West at all. They have never attacked us.
China is harming people all of the world with their shitty quality exports, and exports that are actually dangerous to those who use them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Breukelen advocaat
Islam is a far greater threat. Even far-out militant Christians are a greater threat than China's policies. It's about time we got our priorities straight and put religion where it belongs - in the garbage can.
That may be your priority, but to religious folks, it's a necessity to keep religion. If you're free to disavow religion without fear of persecution, then why shouldn't the religious be afforded the same inalienable right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Breukelen advocaat
We should support China's birth-control policies, unless we want billions more of them in the coming decades.
I don't support abortions here at home, much less in a country that can vehemently impose their will that abortions should be carried out with the sole purpose of quelling a booming population explosion. But, then again, I suppose that's just the fanatical Christian in me talking, right?
Hundreds Protest Dalai Lama in Seattle
Hundreds Protest Dalai Lama in Seattle
Hundreds Protest Dalai Lama in Seattle
Hundreds Protest Dalai Lama in Seattle
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Clandestine
Post-1912? Or are you referring to 13th century Chinese rule? Either or, barbaric laws and barbaric laws, no matter how you slice them, and that area of the world has never really been known for their civility. Plus, in the 13th century, nearly all laws in every continent throughout the world were barbaric in nature.
I'm referring to the way the elite Tibetan monks ran Tibet right up until the 1950's. Tibet had an average life span of 35 years until recently. Now Tibetans have a life expectancy of 68. There is also education, health services, and other benefits befitting the 21st century. They never had those things with the priests, and would still be living in a Feudal society.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Clandestine
It's also a way to help people focus on issues they may have been previously unaware of. Human rights are being violated over there, which shouldn't be tolerated, regardless of population explosions. There are other, more humanitarian, ways to deal with such a pressing issue. Coerced and legal murder should not be one of them.
A fetus is not a human being, therefore cannot be "murdered". A fetus is a parasite, and the host has the right to shed it whenever it so desires. As a form of birth control, abortion is a last resort: When the pill or condom fails, a rape occurs, the parents can't afford the child, the mother is sick, the father dies, the fetus has genetic defects or congenital probems, or for some other reason the birth should not take place. If the population explosion continues, wars and suffering will only kill people off - in a far more "murderous" fashion than a simple womb scraping.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Clandestine
If we freely practiced even half of the human rights issues that are currently taking place in China, we'd have our collective heads on the chopping block with the rest of the world wielding the ax. Why should China be exempted from consequence?
That statement must be taken in the context of your beliefs. I'm sure that the average working Chinese person is not unhappy enough to want to leave China, or make any major changes at this time. It's the lunatic fringes that are causing the problems, and too many gullible people thinking that they are correct.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Clandestine
China is harming people all of the world with their shitty quality exports, and exports that are actually dangerous to those who use them.
You are talking about a few isolated cases of dangerous stuff. The U.S. has recalls, and similar problems with merchandise as well. It's our own fault for killing off manufacturing in America, not the fault of China. We kill more people with cigarettes in one day than all of the bad merchandise out of China has in it's entirety.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Clandestine
That may be your priority, but to religious folks, it's a necessity to keep religion. If you're free to disavow religion without fear of persecution, then why shouldn't the religious be afforded the same inalienable right?
The future, and very existence, of our planet and species are threatened more by the three big monotheistic faiths: Islam, Christianity, and Judaism. Abramic belief systems are extremely perilous, and have no place in the modern world.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Clandestine
I don't support abortions here at home, much less in a country that can vehemently impose their will that abortions should be carried out with the sole purpose of quelling a booming population explosion. But, then again, I suppose that's just the fanatical Christian in me talking, right?
Abortion isn't the first choice for population control by a long-shot, but it must be kept legal. With modern medicine, more women are now capable of having multiple births, and it's always the poorest ones who do this. They are only bringing more misery into the world, and we already have far too much of that. It is very non-compassionate to force people to have children that they cannot support, or do not want. It's also unfair to the children being born into a life of abject poverty, ill health, or other undesirable circumstances.
Hundreds Protest Dalai Lama in Seattle
Quote:
Originally Posted by Breukelen advocaat
There is also education, health services, and other benefits befitting the 21st century. They never had those things with the priests, and would still be living in a Feudal society.
Feudal, tribal, and urban societies flourished throughout Europe, the Middle East, and Asia for many years without the need of a repressive form of central government. I understand that this is the 21st century, but many countries throughout the planet still operate under similar conditions, rebuking advances in this modernized world. These countries may be deemed 'poor' by people like us, but many of them prefer these living conditions, and are perfectly content living without the need for modern technology. They're happy enough with simple non-materialistic lives. These people are, in my opinion, richer than kings.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Breukelen advocaat
A fetus is not a human being, therefore cannot be "murdered". A fetus is a parasite, and the host has the right to shed it whenever it so desires.
This, as you know, is open to interpretation. This is just your interpretation. Mine is completely different, as I believe that life begins at conception. And just as you have many people who'd agree with your viewpoint, so do I.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Breukelen advocaat
You are talking about a few isolated cases of dangerous stuff. The U.S. has recalls, and similar problems with merchandise as well. It's our own fault for killing off manufacturing in America, not the fault of China. We kill more people with cigarettes in one day than all of the bad merchandise out of China has in it's entirety.
You're right that we're killing ourselves with cigarettes. As a long time smoker, I would know first-hand. But I buy my cigarettes with the knowledge that I'm doing harm to my body (stupid, I know), but I am not unknowingly ingesting a poison that could potentially be fatal. I do these stupid things on my own accord. There are more than a few random cases of toxic exports originating from China. Forgive me for not posting ample evidence of this, but I've yet to have my morning coffee, and have little desire to scour the internet looking for what you'd probably just consider a strawman argument. Here's one report that names just a few in 2007: Dangerous Made-In-China Products: 2007 Timeline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Breukelen advocaat
The future, and very existence, of our planet and species are threatened more by the three big monotheistic faiths: Islam, Christianity, and Judaism. Abramic belief systems are extremely perilous, and have no place in the modern world.
Abrahamic religions have flourished for thousands of years, and continue to flourish to this day with massive amounts of followers. To that effect, I'd have to say that billions of people around the world would disagree with this statement... not just me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Breukelen advocaat
Abortion isn't the first choice for population control by a long-shot, but it must be kept legal. With modern medicine, more women are now capable of having multiple births, and it's always the poorest ones who do this. They are only bringing more misery into the world, and we already have far too much of that. It is very non-compassionate to force people to have children that they cannot support, or do not want. It's also unfair to the children being born into a life of abject poverty, ill health, or other undesirable circumstances.
You're a intelligent guy, I'm not going to try and dispute that. You're entitled to your opinions, as I've stated before, but I believe everyone else is entitled to theirs. I'm not advocating that abortions should be made illegal in China, I'm just saying that they should have a right to decide whether or not to get an abortion. It shouldn't be mandated by a government who's worried about exponential growth in population. That (in my opinion, mind you) is on par with cultural genocide. What's worse, it's the Chinese government who's trying to perpetuate this form of mass-murder on their own citizens. Coerced abortions, as nasty as it sounds, isn't the least of the atrocities being committed by the Chinese against their people. There are far worse conditions being recorded, just not reported by the mainstream media.
